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BS: anyone recognise these words?

Mr Red 20 Dec 17 - 12:10 PM
Amos 20 Dec 17 - 12:45 PM
Jackaroodave 20 Dec 17 - 12:46 PM
Jackaroodave 20 Dec 17 - 12:48 PM
Jack Campin 20 Dec 17 - 12:57 PM
DaveRo 20 Dec 17 - 01:06 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Dec 17 - 01:14 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Dec 17 - 04:23 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Dec 17 - 09:00 PM
leeneia 20 Dec 17 - 10:58 PM
Rusty Dobro 21 Dec 17 - 04:04 AM
Mr Red 21 Dec 17 - 04:15 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Dec 17 - 04:27 AM
Jos 21 Dec 17 - 06:52 AM
Long Firm Freddie 21 Dec 17 - 12:09 PM
Senoufou 21 Dec 17 - 01:36 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Dec 17 - 09:01 PM
ChanteyLass 21 Dec 17 - 10:21 PM
Mr Red 22 Dec 17 - 03:23 AM
Mr Red 23 Dec 17 - 08:26 AM
leeneia 25 Dec 17 - 12:29 PM
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Subject: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 12:10 PM

I have been OCRing and fettling a "book" written by a braod Gloucestershire lass. For her own amusemnet over a long time and some time ago.
But these words popped out at me so I did some digging.

Now the question: anyone else come across any of these words

beddytwine        weed that grows up trees, (not convolvulus or Old Man?s Beard). But what?
borning                being born, lambing time.
brivit                looking, searching (looks like brevit in Gloucestershire)
chitting        cutting seed potatoes in half to leave an eye on each, for planting
drindle                a high-waisted long skirt with a wide waistband.
layette                baby?s clothes, and bedding, particularly for new-born infants
nibs                mischievous persons
penning down        as in the sun beating down
spreezed        sore and chapped (a variation of spreathed common in SW UK)


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 12:45 PM

Layette, borning, and nibs have made their way into late 19th or early 20th C. American vernacular English, presumably as imports from the North counties of England. Possibly "drindle" as well, more rarely. The others I have never seen before your OP.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 12:46 PM

I know "dirndl" as "drindl," a traditional dress of the Tyrole and thereabouts.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 12:48 PM

Sorry, "drindl" as "dirndl." Maybe I don't know it so well after all.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 12:57 PM

"Chitting" is worldwide, I think. I've known it for as long as I've known about how people grow potatoes. I wouldn't have guessed anyone didn't know "layette", but come to think of it I may only have heard it in New Zealand.

Seems weird that dirndls got to Gloucestershire.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 01:06 PM

I would have thought layette was a well-known word in the UK. It's what you collect in advance of a birth, similar to a trousseau for a bride. If it's less used nowadays it's probably because infant clothes are cheaper and more washable, so you need fewer of them. And nobody collects two dozen terry-towelling nappies (diapers) as we once did.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 01:14 PM

Layette's common everywhere, I think (a dictionary word)
Drindle is a small, slow run of water in Suffolk
Drindle - also dawdle in Suffolk
Beddy is greedy in the North of England
Nib is the handle of a scythe in Derbyshire
Chit - to germinate, whence 'chits' - children, also first sprouts of corn from the seed (Lost Beauties of the English Language, Charles Mackay (1874)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 04:23 PM

All of those, except 'beddytwine', 'penning down' and 'spreezed'.
I've always known 'drindle'as 'dirndl', although some round here pronounce it as 'drindle'.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 09:00 PM

I've never heard the word, but I'm just wondering whether beddytwine could be goosegrass/cleavers/bedstraw/sticky willy (Galium aparine). It can certainly grow a good few feet up trees with its inbuilt Velcro. Bloody pain it is. But you can eat it.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 10:58 PM

Where are you going, my little one, little one.
Little dirndls and petticoats, where have you gone?

            sung by Harry Belafonte


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 04:04 AM

'Every song in my breast dies a-borning'


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 04:15 AM

Yea.
We had this discussion and tried looking it up. My GF is a gardener and knows the word beddytwine and the weed from her mother. My informant reckons it has white flowers but couldn't define the size of them. There is a climbing weed that grows profusely locally so I intend cutting some down for confirmation, maybe the GF will identify it. It certainly fits the twine description.

bedstraw was considered, but the images were mostly of ground plants some referred to as climbing. the bed bit should be a clue but never assume. And there are a lot of bedstraws to consider!

Galium alba with the white appellation didn't look the part though. Hedge bedstraw galium mullugo appeals, contextually.

This has got me, and I intend to get it!

As an electronic engineer I only know Gallium as a crystaline bulk element for LEDs


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 04:27 AM

"Chit"
A common complaint on the Liverpool docks, where I served my apprenticeship was, "I've a nasty dose of the wild chits this morning", but I don't think it was what is being sought here!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Jos
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 06:52 AM

I have heard (but can't remember where) that bedstraw, otherwise known as lady's bedstraw, was used in straw mattresses to make them softer and pleasant smelling. It has tiny yellow flowers.

What I know as goose grass, also known as cleavers though this name can also be used for burdock with its clinging seed heads, has tiny white flowers and clinging stems and leaves. When I was a child, children used to say that if you had it clinging to your clothes it meant that you were in love - presumably because you would have been dallying with your loved one in hedgerows or overgrown places out of sight.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 12:09 PM

Often use "His nibs" thusly:

nibs
'n?bz
noun informal
noun: his nibs
a mock title used to refer to a self-important man, especially one in authority.
"his nibs expects things to be organised to suit him"

LFF


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 01:36 PM

I think 'beddytwine' could be Common Dodder (Cuscuta epithymum) It's a parasitic plant and can grow on trees, but also makes a thick mat on heathland and pasture (although it's been much eradicated by modern herbicides)

I've always chitted my seed potatoes by cutting them into pieces and getting them to sprout in a tray before planting
.
I actually had a dirndl skirt (just after the war) as a little girl, so did many of my friends.

Women would knit a complete layette in white for an expected baby (matinee jacket, bootees, bonnet etc) My mother and I did this for any pregnant ladies we knew.

My father and uncle would often play cribbage, and when totting up the score would say "One for his nibs." meaning the Jack. I've also heard this as "One for his nob" but they used to say 'nibs'.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 09:01 PM

Dodder is very common round here, mostly parasitising gorse. It never climbs very high. It smells horrible when in flower in August. Galium mollugo, hedge bedstraw, doesn't really climb high much either. Ladies' bedstraw is a definite ground-hugger. I mentioned goosegrass/cleavers/sticky willy, another bedstraw, not only because of the "bed" allusion in its name but also because it can climb rampantly a good number of feet up trees and shrubs.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 10:21 PM

Leeneia, the song you quoted was indeed sung by Harry Belafonte and many others but was written by one of my favorite singer/songwriters, Malvina Reynolds. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to add her name to this thread!


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Dec 17 - 03:23 AM

one for his nob
My grandfather used to say that when playing crib, it would be at the end of a count-up and had some obscure rule that I had to look up

One for his nob: One point for holding the jack of the same suit as the start card.
two for his heels I never heard of. fifteen, two & fifteen four I remember as part of the counting mantra.

Beddytwine: I collected a selection of creepers and asked the dear old lady and she did think Old Mans Beard was the one. Some other old folk that gather at a restaurant nearby were not so sure, one was adamant it was not beddytwine. However when I re-visited the text to read (rather than proof-read) it went to the effect

making ourselves sick smoking beddytwine (as kids mind you). And likewise one of the cafe crowd confirmed he used Old Man's Beard to smoke it as a kid. He was local born and bred too.

I am off to Coaley Woods to see if I can identify the creepers they swung on "Tarzan" stylee. But maybe another day - it is raining today.
The GF reckons Old Man's Beard can grow large if left unchecked - like in a Wood. It may be that beddytwine is a more generic term, or kids assumed the two things were related.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 08:26 AM

Well, I was in Coaley Wood and the only creeper evidence I saw was definitely either bog standard ivy, or something different but not Old Man's Beard (which is a clematis) and looking for all the world like a variety of ivy.

I have to conclude that the stuff "smoked" was actually Old Man's Beard, and the creepers she swung on were some form of ivy. Whereas she conflated the two as the same.
But I have the pictures of these things (and some houses thereabouts) to illustrate her story.

But after all the effort I have some Gloucs an' schpiel (ha!) that I haven't been able to find elsewhere. And the kind of historic insight my audio stories usually provide, and I may get her on audio also, time will tell. Worthy recompense for the effort.


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Subject: RE: BS: anyone recognise these words?
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Dec 17 - 12:29 PM

ChanteyLass, thanks for the info about Malvina Reynolds.


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