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BS: man's inhumanity to eggs

keberoxu 18 Dec 17 - 05:23 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Dec 17 - 07:01 PM
keberoxu 18 Dec 17 - 07:21 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Dec 17 - 07:43 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Dec 17 - 07:56 PM
Will Fly 19 Dec 17 - 04:33 AM
Donuel 19 Dec 17 - 08:50 AM
Rob Naylor 19 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM
Rapparee 19 Dec 17 - 09:07 AM
Mo the caller 20 Dec 17 - 05:40 AM
Mr Red 20 Dec 17 - 05:55 AM
keberoxu 20 Dec 17 - 06:36 PM
keberoxu 20 Dec 17 - 06:46 PM
robomatic 20 Dec 17 - 08:35 PM
keberoxu 23 Dec 17 - 01:45 PM
keberoxu 23 Dec 17 - 01:55 PM
keberoxu 24 Dec 17 - 12:17 PM
keberoxu 26 Dec 17 - 02:26 PM
keberoxu 28 Dec 17 - 04:06 PM
keberoxu 11 Feb 18 - 01:41 PM
Senoufou 11 Feb 18 - 01:55 PM
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Subject: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 05:23 PM

California and Massachusetts are in the cross-hairs
of the egg lobby -- do eggs have a lobby?

Massachusetts voters agreed to a new law,
in 2016, about only ordering/buying/selling eggs
from producers who were humane to their chickens.
Same applies to pork and veal.

No less than sixteen states are suing Massachusetts.

New York Times


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 07:01 PM

Around half of UK egg production is "free-range." I put that in quotes because those of us who are country-dwellers who live near egg production can tell you that, sadly, in most cases "free range" does not necessarily reflect that bucolic image of happy hens frolicking in the sunshine in flowery pastures. More often, the hens opt to stay in their overcrowded barns rather than venture out through the very limited popholes into the outside world. I suppose it's an advance on cage eggs, though we consumers have a responsibility, if we wish to exploit animals for food, to acquaint ourselves with what actually goes on rather than settle for the soothing words on packaging. And, not least, if you ensure that you buy the best quality eggs from proven humane sources, you'll get bloody good eggs. If you don't, you won't.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 07:21 PM

Here is a convenient sound-bite on said Massachusetts law.

Question 3 Regulations

The basis of the lawsuit is the other states' constitutional right
to cage or confine their livestock as it suits them, if I read this right.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 07:43 PM

That wouldn't go down well here. Which is not to say that we're squeaky clean...


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 17 - 07:56 PM

A "yes" vote supported this proposal to prohibit the sale of eggs, veal, or pork of a farm animal confined in spaces that prevent the animal from lying down, standing up, extending its limbs, or turning around.

Not really asking much, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 04:33 AM

It's not always straightforward to buy meat and other products of animals reared humanely, with as much space and freedom as possible, but Mrs. F. and I do our best. I like driving through Suffolk and seeing sociable groups of pigs outside their huts, and I detest cage and battery farming. I never buy meat from outside the UK.

It would do people good to have more connection with how animals are farmed and killed, if meat is part of their diet. I used to go fishing and rabbiting with my dad when I was a kid, and learned to skin and gut accordingly. When I was about 11 or so, I used to help out on a nearby smallholding - wringing chickens' necks. These chickens had run free and were well fed. I like vegetarian food, but I also like meat.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 08:50 AM

Rotating cages (18 hour days) of chickens for egg production are about seventy tears old now. In this case I will not correct spelling.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 08:53 AM

I used to buy all my pork and chicken from a friend who ran a smallholding with a 5 acre wood for the pigs to roam free and root about in, but he's had to give up pig-keeping and the chickens now, so until I find a better (more direct?) source I'm buying from a local farm shop.

Beef comes from a friend's mother who runs a few head of Sussex cattle on her smallholding.

Lamb and sometimes goat comes from a local high-quality butcher. I reckon most lamb is outdoor-reared in UK anyway, but the butcher assures me it's free-range from up on the Ashdown Forest.

Other stuff (venison, rabbit,etc) usually comes from a known source. Maybe not always a source that would be classified as pure, lilywhite and legal, but a source known to me, anyway :-)

I don't eat nearly as much meat as I used to, but do try and ensure that the meat I do eat is from animals that have either been reared humanely or shot from the wild.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Dec 17 - 09:07 AM

"I don't know why you don't just buy your meat from the supermarket, where they make it!"
                --Lady waaay old enough to know better

Meat comes in little trays, covered in clingy wrap and and with a piece of paper underneath. They must add dye or something to the meat because that piece of paper often has a reddish stain on it.

I'm glad they got away from butchering cute little animals.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 05:40 AM

There have been protests against any proposed trade deal between UK (or EU) & US that would give Americans the right to sue us for regulations that we choose to impose on standards. Animal welfare, consumer safety etc should not come second to commercial interests.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 05:55 AM

They must add dye or something to the meat

There has been a "dust" that butchers used to make meat look redder. A practice as old as the hills. I don't notice it now, but when I first heard it I made a point of looking for the signs and some meat did look distinctly redder than it should. I think it was mostly used on beef.

I know no more than that. but look ye here


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 06:36 PM

Here is a report on one Massachusetts vendor
affected by the legislation.

farmers and the New England Brown Egg Council


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 06:46 PM

Comments on "interstate commerce"
relevant to purveyors of livestock outside of Massachusetts.

Are 'animal rights' unconstitutional?


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Dec 17 - 08:35 PM

Check out story by Jack London: "The One Thousand Dozen."


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:45 PM

The opening post of this thread mentioned the states of
Massachusetts (recent legislation)
and California (did it first).

Here is more about the California situation, from the Los Angeles Times.
Hey, Congress - don't mess with California's eggs

In which the chief adversary is Iowa's Steve King,
Iowa being a big egg-production state in these lower 48 states.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 01:55 PM

... and then there's the United States Department of Agriculture,
at the federal-government level,
taking on national AgriBusiness at the level of regulations.

"Don't let them fool you"


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Dec 17 - 12:17 PM

quote:
"...the Question 3 ballot initiative that passed by 78 percent --
which is not only the single largest margin of any ballot initiative law
ever passed in Massachusetts,
but also the highest margin of victory for any animal protection measure
passed by ballot initiative in this country --

[for example,] activists tried to pass that very same measure
through the traditional means in the Massachusetts legislature
for eight years straight,
and it kept getting stymied by agricultural committees.
[ . . . ]
Trying to get any new law passed at the federal or state level
that protects animals raised for food
is very difficult,
because each of them
has to first be approved by an agriculture committee
that is usually staffed with
those who are sympathetic to agribusiness. "   endquote

Here's the whole article.
interview with Executive Director Christopher Green, Animal Law & Policy Program, Harvard [university] Law School


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Dec 17 - 02:26 PM

It kind of depends on who does the reporting --
some of the details change in the telling.

According to the Boston Globe,
it is thirteen, not sixteen, other states getting read
to ask the US Supreme Court to stop Massachusetts' "egg law."

The thirteen are
Texas
Utah
Oklahoma
Nebraska
North Dakota
Arkansas
Missouri
Wisconsin
Indiana
Alabama
Louisiana
West Virginia
South Carolina

(odd that Iowa is not on the Boston Globe's list)

The same Boston Globe Article dated 11 December
says that the actual deadline -- here's the quote --
"set to take effect in 2022."
That's their interpretation.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Dec 17 - 04:06 PM

Wayne Pacelle, whose blog promotes the Humane Society in the US,
has a recent blog entry about the US Congress
working on a new Farm Bill at the federal level.

The anti-humane, pro-ag-business congressmen,
trying to block things like the Farm Animal Protection state law,
include congressmen from Iowa and Wisconsin.

By contrast, there are congresspersons
rallying behind the OFF Act.
Briefly, this act, which might get attached to that in-the-works Farm Bill,
would hold the USDA accountable for its collusion with the anti-humane, big-agri-business lobbies.

The people who are in it for the business
are not going to let go easily
or gracefully.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 01:41 PM

NEFA,
the National Egg Farmers Association,
is gearing up for a national meeting
in Minneapolis in March.
The "egg law" in Massachusetts
will definitely be on the agenda.


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Subject: RE: BS: man's inhumanity to eggs
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Feb 18 - 01:55 PM

We've had an outbreak of Avian Flu, and all outdoor hens have been confined to barracks in case wild birds contaminate the flocks. It may be over now though.
We get our eggs from a neighbour who has a few hens in her back garden. They have a large enclosure and are fed on grain. Delicious!

Here in Norfolk there are many outlets for home-produced meat/poultry, where the animals are treated humanely.
Our favourite store, 'Roys of Wroxham' sources all its produce locally, and the flavour is so good.

I'd like to see battery units completely outlawed here. They're cruel, the eggs are rubbish and it's all a disgrace.


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