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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

Iains 22 May 18 - 03:22 PM
Jim Carroll 22 May 18 - 02:59 PM
Iains 22 May 18 - 02:47 PM
Jim Carroll 22 May 18 - 01:45 PM
Iains 22 May 18 - 01:36 PM
DMcG 22 May 18 - 01:26 PM
DMcG 22 May 18 - 01:24 PM
Raggytash 22 May 18 - 01:21 PM
Raggytash 22 May 18 - 01:19 PM
DMcG 22 May 18 - 01:14 PM
Iains 22 May 18 - 01:05 PM
Raggytash 22 May 18 - 12:25 PM
Iains 22 May 18 - 12:12 PM
Jim Carroll 22 May 18 - 11:19 AM
Raggytash 22 May 18 - 10:14 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 18 - 09:30 AM
Steve Shaw 22 May 18 - 09:15 AM
Raggytash 22 May 18 - 09:03 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 08:47 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 08:44 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 08:34 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 18 - 08:11 AM
Raggytash 22 May 18 - 08:03 AM
Raggytash 22 May 18 - 08:00 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 07:58 AM
DMcG 22 May 18 - 07:48 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 05:42 AM
Jim Carroll 22 May 18 - 05:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 May 18 - 04:53 AM
DMcG 22 May 18 - 04:36 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 04:36 AM
Steve Shaw 22 May 18 - 04:12 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 04:02 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 May 18 - 03:42 AM
Iains 22 May 18 - 03:42 AM
DMcG 22 May 18 - 02:13 AM
Jim Carroll 21 May 18 - 07:36 PM
Steve Shaw 21 May 18 - 06:00 PM
Iains 21 May 18 - 05:35 PM
Raggytash 21 May 18 - 04:42 PM
Iains 21 May 18 - 04:38 PM
Raggytash 21 May 18 - 04:27 PM
Iains 21 May 18 - 04:09 PM
Jim Carroll 21 May 18 - 03:29 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 May 18 - 01:36 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 May 18 - 01:25 PM
Jim Carroll 21 May 18 - 01:23 PM
Raggytash 21 May 18 - 01:19 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 May 18 - 01:10 PM
DMcG 21 May 18 - 12:42 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 03:22 PM

I get more sense talking to a brick!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 02:59 PM

It is repetition such as yours that achieves nothing Iains
Ireland doesn't need British ports to sell to Europe - But Britain needs an open door to
Try posting links and not giving halff- truths Iains
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 02:47 PM

Ireland is the one that needs the alternative routes, not the UK. Trying to frustrate brexit with meaningless threats achieves nothing. To replace all the UK bound ferries with alternatives needs infrastructure under construction now. Try a little homework before posting meaningless links. As in so many other things you pontificate on, you show a woeful lack of knowledge of the real issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:45 PM

"The reality is below. A problem the Irish need to address instead of idle threats."
Not idle threats
These ships are in service and have been welcomed by Europe as an alternative if Britain falls at the "border" fence, as it looks likely to
THeir potential has been fully covered on the Irish media
Wake up and smell the coffee
The world doesn't need Britain and Trump will go wherever it suits his election chances
No "SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP " any more
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:36 PM

Direct shipping between ireland and europe is miniscule at present.
Between Ireland and the UK there are 4 ports serving ireland (Belfast, Dublin, Rosslare and Cork) The destinations are Cairnryan, Liverpool, Holyhead, Fishguard, Pembroke and occasionally Roscoff and Santender.
Apart from the last two destinations there asre multiple sailings each day to and from Ireland to the UK. An appreciable component of the "cargo" comprises HGV's. The infrastructure at Cork and Rosslare is probably inadequate to cope with additional traffic should other ports no longer be used. These changes need to be happening now unless seamless cross border movements are agreed. Prevarication and bullheadedness will impact Ireland far more heavily.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:26 PM

... the port capacity...


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:24 PM

I should have been clearer. Chartering may be necessary as well, but it did not seem to me to be the focus of the article. Certainly, if you want more routes you need more ships on them and they do have to come from somewhere. But as I say I saw the article as mainly being "even if you had the ships, the capacity is insufficient.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:21 PM

Come to think of it Irish Ferries are already one step ahead.

Their new ship the W B Yeats, due to come into service next year, has three kilometers of vehicle decking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:19 PM

Of course it may be an issue.

A the moment P&O, Stena and Irish Ferries run ships from Ireland to the UK, from Dublin, Rosslare and Larne to the UK. Irish Ferries run 8 ships to a day to the UK, Stena the same. (Irish Ferries also run 3 ships a day to France.)

Some of that freight then travels on the mainland Europe.

If Customs delay that traffic the hauliers will want alternative routes and the shipping companies will provide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:14 PM

The article is not, particularly, raising chartering ships as an issue, as far as I can see. The problem is more the capacity of the ports to handle the ships.

That is a fairly straightforward investment decision, held up at the moment because the UK still can't decide what relationship with the EU it wants, so the EU does not want to make a major investment that may not be necessary. But if it becomes clear the investment is needed, it will happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 01:05 PM

Chartering ships is an everyday process, relatively simple. Given that shipping companies already do so on a daily basis, chartering more ships will not be an obstacle.

Maybe maybe not.
Others see a degree of complexity involved. I would presume they would know considerably more about the problems than you. If chartering ro ro ships was a simple everyday occurrence they would not be flagging it as an issue.
Perhaps the irish need to study stacking. They may need to!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 12:25 PM

Chartering ships is an everyday process, relatively simple. Given that shipping companies already do so on a daily basis, chartering more ships will not be an obstacle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 12:12 PM

Your link is mainly about mr hasbeen powell(never heard of him)
The existing shipping links between ireland and europe are totally inadequate to provide alternative routing avoiding the UK.

The reality is below. A problem the Irish need to address instead of idle threats.




https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/more-european-routes-needed-for-irish-ports-462063.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 11:19 AM

This isn't going to help either
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/irish-shipping-firms-plan-to-bypass-british-ports-with-direct-routes-to-europe-36782777.html
Jim Caarroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 10:14 AM

Another potential blow to the UK post Brexit. The EU are to open talks regarding free trade with Australia and New Zealand in advance of any talks between the UK and these nations.

EU Talks

At present the EU, including the UK, have a trade with NZ of about $20 Billion (NZ). Post Brexit the UK will have about $4 Billion (NZ)

I can guess who will get the better deal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 09:30 AM

You are nothing if not predictable Iains
You are presented with a major blow to Brexit - do you attempt to discuss it - do you ****
You scamper around like a rat sprinting away from the farmers wife and scoop up meaningless blogs
Guido Fawkes is an extremit mindless blogger (as can be judged by the quality of your blogs)
As far as immigration being linked to low wages - of course it is when both customers and employers happily use cheaper Labour to drive down wages - as old as immigration iyself
Until Britain adopts a an enforceable and realistic living wage policy to ensure that this is not allowed to happen it will continue to divide Britain
As human beings, we are morally obliged to accept refugees, especially from wars we have been part of causing - that has always been something Britain has been rightfully proud of in the past - now it has become a weapon in the hands of the extremist right
THIS IS THE ALTERNATIVE IF WE ABABDON OUR HISTORY
Your gleeful announcement only underlines the inhumanity of your position
Snigger away
Your dog-eat-dog world is nothing to be proud of
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 18 - 09:15 AM

*Sigh* What did I tell you about Iains at six o'clock yesterday evening.... :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 09:03 AM

OK, so your first link is to the Economic Voice is basically a blog, your second and third links are to Guido Fawkes (again) another blog.

They do not inspire any degree of confidence.

Can you really not come up with anything better?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:47 AM

and they just keep coming!

https://order-order.com/2018/04/20/uk-tech-investment-surges-115/
Same terms and conditions apply as above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:44 AM

snigger, snigger!

https://order-order.com/2018/05/15/barniers-lost-space-galileo/
Now to help the more simple minded among us comment on the content, not the origin. Got it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:34 AM

https://www.economicvoice.com/bank-of-england-research-finally-accepts-immigration-causes-lower-wages/

Old but still one in the eye for remoaners!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:11 AM

Four Ulster Parties have come together and agreed that there should be no hard border and that Britain should remain in the Single Market
This means th DUP no longer has a majority - it seems Maggie May threw away the Billion bribe !!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:03 AM

A further extract:

"The Bank of England governor gave MPs a clear reminder of the cost of the 2016 EU referendum today, by warning that households are £900 worse off today than expected.

During his testimony to the Treasury Committee, Mark Carney explained that the UK economy is currently 1% smaller than expected two years ago. That’s despite the world economy, and particularly the eurozone, growing faster than forecast since then.

According to Carney, if you adjust for the stronger global economy and the UK government’s fiscal easing, the UK is actually around 1.75% smaller, perhaps even 2%, than you might expected today.

That has a real impact on families and individuals across the country.

As Carney puts it:

If you map it onto household incomes, real household incomes are about £900 lower than we forecast, which is a lot of money.

Some of this loss can clearly be ascribed to Brexit. Business investment has been up to 4% weaker than forecast -- as firms have been hit by uncertainty over Britain’s future trading relationships.

Households have suffered by the drop in real incomes (which turned negative last year), due to the plunge in sterling after the referendum. The weaker pound drove up inflation, meaning salaries and pensions didn’t go as far in the shops.

As Carney puts it:

“There are Brexit effects that come through”

But, the governor did also cite Britain’s ongoing productivity problems - partly due to weak investment, but also due to a series of wider issues that can’t be pinned on the Brexit vote.

In conclusion, Carney warned:

“In the short term, over the last year and a half, there has been an impact relative to what we would have expected, even with some pretty good tailwinds on the back of this economy.”"


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:00 AM

Those of us on the Remain side of this discussion have for some time said that people in general were already worse off. This suggestion has now been ratified by Mark Carney, Governor of the Back of England.

"Mark Carney from the Bank of England has just confirmed that household incomes are now £900 lower than forecast just before the EU Referendum. Can't remember that being written on the side of that red bus!"

Extract from Todays Guardian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 07:58 AM

The scheme has been under continuous review since first being introduced. Tagging brexit onto it is simply scaremongering. To date
French labour practises(or lack of them) have created major problems.
I have no doubt when Britain no longer contributes to the CAP then French farmers will block the tunnel with shiny, new, highly subsidised tractors that everyone else in Europe pays for! Then we will need a huge carpark ready.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 07:48 AM

It is certainly the government's claim that the timing of this is nothing to do with Brexit and the fact that the aim is to have it all ready by Brexit day could indeed be pure coincidence.

But those advocates for remain, the Daily Mail and the Express don't think so.

Whether that date is just coincidence or not, the government does intend to have plans in place to cope with any issues that arise in the initial days.

For my part, I think that is no bad thing. Better to be prepared and discover you don't need it, than to be unprepared.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 05:42 AM

Operation stack has been under continuous review since first introduced in 1987. Similar schemes are in existence for other major ports.
A coned contraflow system has been trialled on the 10.5 miles (16.9 km) section between Ashford and Maidstone, to relieve the pressure on the A20, but it was costly and slow to arrange, taking two days to set up and two days to remove. Highways England have announced a plan to use quick movable barriers to set up a contraflow so that two lanes can be maintained.
Use of Manston Airport
Use of part of the car park at Ebbsfleet International railway station to temporarily park/queue up to 1,000 lorries
In July 2016 the Department for Transport announced that a new lorry park for 3,600 vehicles was to be built to the north of junction 11 of the M20, with new access from the eastbound motorway between junctions 10 and 11 at Stanford West, with completion expected by Summer 2017. However, in November 2017 the Department announced that "environmental obligations" had delayed this option and, instead, a linear lorry park along the centre of the M20, separated by traffic barriers, was under consideration.
No mention of brexit in any of these considerations. To date French industrial action has created the biggest headache and displayed the inadequacy of the existing scheme, hence the search for better alternatives.
Similar schemes operate at Stranraer and Felixstowe. Surprisingly Immingham, the UK biggest port, appears to have no emergency parking scheme publicised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 18 - 05:40 AM

"I can well understand why Keith loses his patience with you four mudrats."
Dou yoyu not see the utter stupidity of accusing people being bullying and insulting with a statement like this
Your little team is as abusing and bullying as anybody on this forum - your incessant stream of insults tends to make you the leader of the pack
It really is time you grew up and got a grip Iains
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:53 AM

Is it the time of year, time of month or are your hemorrhoids playing up Iains?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:36 AM

Yes, Iains, operation stack dates back several years. But the announcement being discussed was yesterday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:36 AM

Indeed!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:12 AM

Oh dear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 04:02 AM

" Your unforced and provocative reference to me in this thread appears to speak volumes about your inclination to moody instability. Pity."
Is this shaw the scientist, ex teacher, former union activist or bullshit artist making the diagnosis? Is the conclusion fact, or merely whimsy? We all need to know these things as your multiple personas create a considerable challenge for us to determine whether to interpret or simply ignore your multitudinous posts.
I suggest you take your cudgel up with raggedytash, he is the one insisting on links, as is jimmie with his asinine statement about cherrypicking. Some of you demand links, some of you think it beneath you(because you can't) A little consistency is needed, doncha think?

I can well understand why Keith loses his patience with you four mudrats.
When faced with logic you all counter attack by attempting to bully. I regard that as a major character defect y'all need to work on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 May 18 - 03:42 AM

DMcG, the original source makes no reference or allusion to Brexit.
That was just a bit of spin put on by the BBC journalist.
I do not find it in any way relevant to our discussion.

I am away for a couple of days so if you want to ignore me again you will have to wait, unless you ignore this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 22 May 18 - 03:42 AM

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-10-25/debates/970D8709-C6B0-4A6D-8608-560CB7EB80A6/OperationStackLorryParkingInKent

You can gain a lot by knowing the precise source (which Iains should have given in the first instance

Howsabout HANSARD. NOW LOOK AT THE DATE!
You remoaners are a tad behind the curve on this one. Not for the first time either!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 18 - 02:13 AM

I said it would be interesting to see who reacted how to the M20 plans. So far there is no comment here from the Brexit supporters (a link to the official statement is indeed welcome, but is not a comment upon it.)

In the media, both the Express and the Mail have described it as a consequence of Brexit.
The Guardian, naturally does so as well. My original post was from the BBC and also made the Brexit link, but I have not found a fuller article there or on the Independent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 07:36 PM

Links are beside the point
You presented a figure desugned to mislead - pretty much as your Government works
My observation on your not linking it was just brown sauce on the chip butty and it was handy to use to put your tame parrot in its place.
Do you intend to qualify your dismissal of the Six Countries - you know the ones - the mob that stand between Maggie May-Fly and defeat in The House?

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 18 - 06:00 PM

Er, excuse me, please. Points I make here are supported by my own arguments, right or wrong. I often refer to sources I've used, not in blue links, but nonetheless referred to. Not only that, Iains, if I use a source at all I use it to support my argument and extensively refer to it. On a good number of occasions you have simply scattergunned links here without referring to them in your post at all, routinely from right-wing sources (your privilege, of course, but very noticeable nonetheless), and you've had it pointed out to you several times that your links actually undermine your own arguments, apparently demonstrating that you haven't really read them.

We all have our own ways of contributing to discussions on this forum. I prefer to give my own opinions, generally speaking, rather than rely on sources that I can't even be arsed to comment on. I'm not sure that you can say the same. Yiu and I have not fallen out for a good number of weeks. Your unforced and provocative reference to me in this thread appears to speak volumes about your inclination to moody instability. Pity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 05:35 PM

What on earth have you been imbibing? Even by your standards your latest offering is pathetic. Do you actually know how a valid argument is constructed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:42 PM

Absolute bollocks Iains.

If you are so unsure of your sources and their contents, and perhaps are afraid if other people reading them, then maybe you should be more careful in the ones you choose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:38 PM

Raggytash you know perfectly well why Shaw was brought into the equation. He boasts he cannot do links and you say nothing. Yet you chastise me for omitting a link(a rare occurrence for me) I think your little mates resort to cherry picking ,not I. I prefer to let the facts stand for themselves. I know you hang on Shaw;s shirt tails but it is embarrassing that you make it so obvious. Shame on you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:27 PM

Why bring Steve Shaw into the equation?

It is not him I'm discussing this matter with, it is yourself.

If you are confident of your sources you should be able to link to them so that the other people can ensure that the words you have quoted are not merely "cherry picked".

It has been known to happen!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 May 18 - 04:09 PM

"You can gain a lot by knowing the precise source (which Iains should have given in the first instance)"


But, but, but matey shaw has never knowingly given a link in 19620 posts. Do I detect any criticism directed to him. No of course not!
Birds of a feather, packrats and all that!


https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/foreign-direct-investment
Now if you go 2 lines below the bar chart you can see a box marked max.
Hit that and you can access graphical data from 1995 to near present.
You can see since 2000 the graph has jumped all over the place so taking short time periods and trying to determine a trend is rather pointless
Rather like the gnomes last pathetic little jibe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 03:29 PM

"You could read them!"
You are an eejit Keith
He named the company and selected the most favorable figure to his argument
He did not to likk to it and hoped nobody else would seek out the true position - just as you do (except, of course, you often bother to even do that)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:36 PM

Looks like you are trying your best to get this thread closed as well, Iains. Not going how you would like? I suppose you will be blaming others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:25 PM

but I would like to know for sure that Iains is using that particular article.

The first sentences appear in his post. You could read them!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:23 PM

"but I would like to know for sure that Iains is using that particular article."
Scan a line and google it - that's what comes up - simples


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:19 PM

Jim, as I'm sure you realise I ignore all post from the troll.

I am grateful for your interjection but I would like to know for sure that Iains is using that particular article. You can gain a lot by knowing the precise source (which Iains should have given in the first instance)


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 18 - 01:10 PM

Here is the original source. You always say you prefer that DMcG.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/road-haulage-update-21-may-2018


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 May 18 - 12:42 PM

From the BBC live site: a good one here.
=========
Government draws up plans to park lorries on M20 in event of post-Brexit customs delays at Dover
The Department for Transport has put out an interesting, Brexit-related ministerial statement today. It says that the government has drawn up plans to park lorries on one lane of the M20 in the event of there being “serious disruption to cross-Channel transport”.
The ministerial statement, which has been issued in the name of the transport minister Jesse Norman, does not specify what this “serious disruption” might be, and of course there have been serious hold-ups at Dover before, triggered by strike action on the French side, which led to the development of Operation Stack, an emergency procedure for parking lorries on the M20. But it does say the new system will be available “from early 2019” - which, conveniently, is when the UK will leave the EU and when a no deal Brexit (which the government wants to avoid, but cannot absolutely rule out) would cause customs chaos at the Channel ports.

======

It will interesting to see who thinks this is nothing to with Brexit, who thinks it is just a sensible preparation, who thinks both simultaneously, and who would rather not talk about it, thanks very much.


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Mudcat time: 22 May 3:24 PM EDT

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