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BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK

Senoufou 01 Feb 17 - 12:18 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 17 - 12:01 PM
Jack Campin 01 Feb 17 - 11:56 AM
bobad 01 Feb 17 - 11:48 AM
Senoufou 01 Feb 17 - 11:32 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 11:21 AM
akenaton 01 Feb 17 - 11:16 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 10:48 AM
Jack Campin 01 Feb 17 - 10:34 AM
bobad 01 Feb 17 - 10:29 AM
Bonzo3legs 01 Feb 17 - 10:10 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 17 - 09:56 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 09:53 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Feb 17 - 09:45 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 17 - 09:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 17 - 09:41 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Feb 17 - 09:37 AM
Stu 01 Feb 17 - 09:35 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 09:33 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 09:23 AM
bobad 01 Feb 17 - 09:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 17 - 09:10 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Feb 17 - 09:02 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 08:53 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 08:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Feb 17 - 08:40 AM
akenaton 01 Feb 17 - 08:12 AM
bobad 01 Feb 17 - 08:02 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 08:01 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 17 - 07:39 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 07:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 17 - 07:04 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 06:53 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 17 - 06:42 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 17 - 06:39 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 06:34 AM
Stu 01 Feb 17 - 06:32 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 17 - 06:24 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 06:17 AM
Iains 01 Feb 17 - 06:02 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 06:01 AM
Nigel Parsons 01 Feb 17 - 05:59 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 17 - 05:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 01 Feb 17 - 04:24 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 17 - 04:23 AM
David Carter (UK) 01 Feb 17 - 04:15 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 17 - 03:58 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 03:51 AM
Teribus 01 Feb 17 - 03:31 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Feb 17 - 03:11 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 12:18 PM

'...self-righteous Aspergers sufferers...' ??
Not sure at whom you're directing that remark Steve, but my niece is a genuine 'Aspergers sufferer' and it isn't a term to be used lightly.

Taking the moral high ground isn't a case of self-righteousness, merely standing up for what one believes to be true and good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 12:01 PM

Bloody Nora, there seems to be a crowd of self-righteous Asperger's sufferers posting here this afternoon! That's the last time you'll try THAT style of tongue-in-cheekery around here, innit, Jack! 😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 11:56 AM

Maybe this will join 1984 in the best seller lists?

Rogue Male

First published several months before Britain was at war. I wonder what publisher now would have as much guts as Chatto and Windus did back then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: bobad
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 11:48 AM

Not really a surprise as Jack is a proponent of Communism and that is a favoured tool oft employed by them to eliminate those who fail to toe the party line.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 11:32 AM

To even think of assassination of a person is totally evil. No-one with any humanity in them at all would suggest such a course of action.
Surely we've come a long, long way from savagery?


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 11:21 AM

Ake. The snowflakes get quite horrid when they have a meltdown.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 11:16 AM

Given the history of the US, only a very special kind of person would suggest such a thing....even in jest.

That's three suggestions of assassination that I have spotted on this forum since the election, and I haven't had time to do much reading.
I don't remember any such suggestions from "the hate filled right wing nuts" here, when President Obama was elected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 10:48 AM

I think the electronic footprint of such a scheme would have a jackboot stamp on it with great rapidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 10:34 AM

Wouldn't it be a better move to crowdfund an assassination?

It wouldn't come cheap, but somebody with the wherewithal - a privately owned howitzer or access to a cruise missile control room, say - must have their price. (The one think you know about anyone in the military is that they can be bought - they wouldn't be in it otherwise).

How would you go about setting up such an initiative?


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: bobad
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 10:29 AM

Jim is usually self regulating and can be relied on to eventually realise when he is bogged down in futile thread creep arguments.
He is also usually apologetic for such lapses...


Lol..........you've got to be kidding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 10:10 AM

Well I'm all ready for The Transports!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:56 AM

I posted that prematurely by accident. I'll start again.

Now excuse me everybody. Whoa. Hold your horses. Now I'm doing my dog-with-bone bit here but I don't care.

At 03.51am today, Teribus posted the following:

Perhaps someone on this forum could direct me to any map produced by Palestinian National Authority.... Carroll, Greg F, Steve Shaw, DtG have been asked many times in the past and to-date none of them have ever been able to produce one.

The statement about being asked to produce maps is untrue, blatantly so. Two of us named there have already complained that we have NEVER BEEN ASKED ANY SUCH THING. We've been met with a load of bluffing, spittle-flecked aggression and insults, instead of a simple acknowledgement that the statement is untrue and is being withdrawn. The man who made this statement is well known here for picking his adversaries up sarcastically on tiny details itn their posts,yet here he is, making unsubstantiated, baseless accusations. Note, by the way, that I've decided to use some of his own favourite terminology in compiling this post. Teribus, withdraw the remark. Folks, we should all refuse to take this man seriously until he does so. People who through testosterone-fuelled hubris can't acknowledge mistakes are not to be trusted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:53 AM

PFR you are totally correct. It is monty pythonesque each time I visit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:45 AM

Teribus - I could spend time countering every point you put, conducting in depth research, making certain I am fully prepared on every detail of every issue that obsesses you...

but.. eff that... I've got much more essential commitments & interests in life to get on with...

I actually respect your intelligence and articulate writing style.. but have been on this planet long enough to know a reactionary bore when I'm in the company of one...


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:43 AM

Now excuse me very body. Whoa. Hold your horses. Now I'm doing my dog-with-bone bit here but I don't care.

At 03.51am today, Teribus posted the following:

Perhaps someone on this forum could direct me to any map produced by Palestinian National Authority.... Carroll, Greg F, Steve Shaw, DtG have been asked many times in the past and to-date none of them have ever been able to produce one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:41 AM

Why is it that actual facts, like those above

What, facts like I have discussed Palestinians lands with you? I have never discussed that with you. Neither you or anyone else can counter or dispute that so you are left with leaving your little scottie dog calling people names.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:37 AM

Bobad - Jim is usually self regulating and can be relied on to eventually realise when he is bogged down in futile thread creep arguments.
He is also usually apologetic for such lapses...


Iains - "PFR I believe the thread is about the message, not the messenger."

.. seriously...???.. this is mudcat BS... threads are indivisibly about both...!!!!! .. and all the more laughable for it... 🙄


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Stu
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:35 AM

"Will the snowflakes be all over this like another rather nasty rash?"

Oh dear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:33 AM

Tell me pfr, what aspect of my "supposed" megalomania did you find so disappointing?

- Establishing the fact that there is no Petition to not allow trump into the UK?

- Clarifying that there was no Trump imposed world-wide ban on Muslim immigration to the USA?

- Highlighting that election promises made by Trump are far from being MUCH, MUCH WORSE than those of the Nazi Party

Why is it that actual facts, like those above and those presented by Iains, that show what Trump has done is not without precedent and no different to what has been done by others is so disturbing to you?

Neither you or anyone else can counter or dispute any of them - so you are left with calling people names.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:23 AM

PFR I believe the thread is about the message, not the messenger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: bobad
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:21 AM

Well PFK, I reserve the right to challenge Carroll whenever he injects the "Israelis" (read Jews) into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with them. If that makes it a borefest for you perhaps you might consider addressing your displeasure to him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:10 AM

Teribus

Oh I am sure you have been asked

No I have not but thank you for proving that you have made it up. Not only can you not find anything but you have taken to making up more to justify your first lie.

where you and the rest of your mates leapt to his defence.

As far as I can see Jim needs no help from me. Even if he did, I could not provide any as I really do not know anything about the Palestinian lands.

Ake. Still nothing to add but pointless abuse I see. When will you make a valuable contribution to anything instead of just jeering from the sidelines? Little wonder that so many of your posts are deleted.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 09:02 AM

Iains - forgive me for not knowing who you are, or which side of the Atlantic you reside...
You're not one of those mudcat personas that stick in the mind for any memorable reason..

But your use of the insult 'snowflake' does indicate an unoriginal uncreative mind,
so reliant on pre-fab fashionable political peer group sanctioned language.....????


... of course I could be wrong.... 😜


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 08:53 AM

And more. Despite the Schengen Zone. ID for EU train rides. To my mind this is a far more dangerous progression. Will the snowflakes be all over this like another rather nasty rash?

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/told-airport-style-identity-checks-coming-train-travel/181552#more-181552


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 08:46 AM

Seems the EU is jumping on the border control bandwagon. Will the snowflakes start protesting this as well?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-eu-borders-idUSKBN15G4EI?il=0


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 08:40 AM

...and this was such an interesting thread to read
before the inevitable Teribus megalomania & Bobad monomania borefest hijacked and effed it right up.... 😣


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 08:12 AM

My how the world has changed since the election of DJ......all the lies distortion and misrepresentation being exposed on this forum.

Well done Mr T, I thought I was the only one to recognise DtG's passive aggressive tendencies. :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: bobad
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 08:02 AM

Anyone who has visited Israel, and has evidence of it on their passport, cannot visit Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. Meanwhile, 16 Muslim states, including Yemen, Iran, Iraq and Syria have a blanket ban on Israelis entering their countries.

No outrage about that but, then again, why would there be when our resident megaphones for the regressive left blare on about how the Jews control governments and media and are the cause of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 08:01 AM

Oh I am sure you have been asked, just cannot be bothered to track through every thread on this forum where Jom might have trotted out this particular one of his pet hobby-horses and where you and the rest of your mates leapt to his defence.

As far as "your word" goes? I wouldn't trust you or your word as far as I could pitch an Admiralty cast anchor. And your current "passive/aggressive" act doesn't fool anyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 07:39 AM

so no future comments about Palestinians and any desire on their part for a two-state solution from you either as you claim to know nothing about it.

Absolutely spot on Teribus. No future comments, no present comments, no past comments. Still no evidence of my ever being involved then? Why did you claim I was?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 07:26 AM

Thanks DtG, so no future comments about Palestinians and any desire on their part for a two-state solution from you either as you claim to know nothing about it.

Of course what that does bring into play what were the only recognised and officially recognised "borders" of the Mandate of Palestine defined and established under the authority of the League of Nations in 1923 - An area representing 23% of the original 1920 Mandated Territory of Palestine (The other 77% having been allocated to the Arabs of Palestine for their sole settlement) in which anyone could settle anywhere within its boundaries, Jew, Christian, Muslim.

Still no takers on the acceptability of those countries that exercise a universal ban on entry of Israeli citizens? No protests, no placards?

No comment on Obama's six month ban?

What hypocrites the outraged liberal-left are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 07:04 AM

Well, you have all been asked now - ball is your court.

I have already said I know nothing about it. Why ask me? Do I take it by the lack of your providing evidence that I had ever commented on it that you just made up that I had ever been involved in this argument?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:53 AM

No Shaw. It is 100% cut and paste. That way you cannot nitpick on punctuation. but it still does not stop a pathetic snipe does it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:42 AM

It's exactly what your devious and extremely dishonest posts deserved. You can try to divert away to your silly maps point as much as you like. But you lied. And you are unapologetic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:39 AM

The Guardian reports that "The British parliament will hold a debate on calls to cancel Donald Trump's state visit, due to be hosted by the Queen this year, after 1.6 million people signed a petition in support of scrapping or downgrading the invitation.The debate will be held in Westminster Hall on 20 February and will also consider a rival petition in support of the US president's visit, which has 114,000 signatures."

These simplistic half-truths fall directly into the lap of so-called 'fake news' stories that have predominantly been whipped up by the same mainstream media who have been complaining about it.


What "half-truths?" As far as I can see, this is a reasonably accurate report of what's going to happen.

As for the rest rest of your "great post," it's mostly good ol' copy 'n' paste. The excellent grammar and punctuation is a dead giveaway. And if you really want to play a silly numbers game over petitions, how come you didn't mention the four million-plus who signed for a second referendum? Ah yes, nothing quite as effective at producing half-truths and fake news as selective information!


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:34 AM

Thanks Shaw - that was exactly the response I thought I'd get.

No such map exists, no such map has ever even been considered. So whenever anybody ever hears the words "Palestinians" in connection with any mention of a "two-state solution" or any aspiration to any such solution you know that it is complete and utter bullshit. Glad to have got that out of the way once and for all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Stu
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:32 AM

"As far as the petition is concerned the heartlands of this campaign as seen from the petitions map is Oxford, Cambridge and central London – hardly representative of the Muslim community of Britain."

Unfortunately, this statement renders the rest of your post irrelevant; a clumsy attempt to deflect debate from the core issue at the heart of the petition, the fact people don't want to give legitimacy to an authoritarian who has promoted his family and white supremacists to the White staff and who for many represents a return to the darker politics of the past, as he demonstrated in his campaign.

It's utterly irrelevant where the "campaign heartlands" are or what the demographic of the signatories of the petition are; this is an exercise in democracy and the debate is going ahead, exactly as it should.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:24 AM

"Well, you have all been asked now - ball is your court."

You really haven't got any shame, have you? You lied about several of us and now you're trying to tell us that the ball's in our court? You know where you can stick your map question, don't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:17 AM

Great post Iains - unfortunately none of the extremely relevant points that you have raised will be addressed. You on the other hand will be vilified for having made them. Nevertheless please keep it up, I do enjoy reading your extremely informative contributions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:02 AM

The Guardian reports that "The British parliament will hold a debate on calls to cancel Donald Trump's state visit, due to be hosted by the Queen this year, after 1.6 million people signed a petition in support of scrapping or downgrading the invitation.The debate will be held in Westminster Hall on 20 February and will also consider a rival petition in support of the US president's visit, which has 114,000 signatures."

These simplistic half-truths fall directly into the lap of so-called 'fake news' stories that have predominantly been whipped up by the same mainstream media who have been complaining about it.

As far as the petition is concerned the heartlands of this campaign as seen from the petitions map is Oxford, Cambridge and central London – hardly representative of the Muslim community of Britain. It should be noted that in Britain, no-one is allowed into the country from those same countries. A visa is required after a vetting process, the same exists in the EU.

As far as the USA is concerned, Trump has clearly stated those refugees coming from anywhere in the world will be decided on merit. That is no different to what existed before in the US under Obama. The order does NOT ban all Muslims indefinitely – only those from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen – temporarily, whilst Trump decides from his own experts what should happen permanently. The ban is for 90 days whilst this advice is being considered.

Trump is also carrying exactly what he was elected to do, something of a rarity these days.

Part of the Executive Order, says the following: "In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including "honor" killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation."

One assumes that most intellectually functioning people would agree with that statement.

Largely unreported though is the other side of the story exposed by 'NewsBusters': "Mainstream media networks devoted 57 times more coverage to President Donald Trump's temporary "ban" on travel from seven terror-prone countries than they did to President Barack Obama's permanent ban on Cuban refugees to the U.S." It is estimated that over 70,000 Cubans were killed by Castro and his forces. Where were the protestors and their placards?

Like the presidential race to the Whitehouse, Trump was given a huge boost by the media because, as they admitted, it sold papers and drove massive volumes of traffic to their websites – revenues rapidly increased.

In 2013 ABC News reported that "State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011," after the discovery that two al-Qaeda operatives had used the program to enter the U.S. and move to Bowling Green, Kentucky. The ABC report goes on to say that "even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets. One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said." Where were the protestors and their placards against Obama's 6 month ban?

And here's another strange fact, this time From the BostonGlobe: WASHINGTON — As a senator, Barack Obama offered measured praise for the border control legislation that would become the basis for one of Donald Trump's first acts as president.

"The bill before us will certainly do some good," Obama said on the Senate floor in October 2006. He praised the legislation, saying it would provide "better fences and better security along our borders" and would "help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country." Obama was talking about the Secure Fence Act of 2006, legislation authorising a barrier along the southern border passed into law with the support of 26 Democratic senators including party leaders like Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Chuck Schumer. Where were the protestors and their placards?

In the meantime, France, still struggling to assimilate immigrants and their descendants from its former North African and sub-Saharan colonies, has forced many French Muslims to feel discriminated against who see themselves as aliens in the country where they were born or grew up. According to a report in The National, 15,000 French Muslims have left for the UAE alone in the last year, with many more migrating as a direct result of the way they have been treated. Placards anyone?

Germany's Chancellor Merkel is to throw out 100,000 Muslims straight back into the very war torn countries they escaped from purely for her own political reasons – she is standing for re-election. Any protestors in London?

And when David Cameron stood grandstanding in Tripoli after the extremely violent assassination of Gaddafi that saw an oil producing sovereign state, who was threatening no-one, especially not Britain, with less poverty than Denmark ended in a failed state with 30,000 Muslims killed, 50,000 Muslims wounded and hundreds of thousands of Muslims displaced from their homes – where were the protestors?

The Child Victims of War campaign to stop Britain attacking Libya didn't reach 100 signatures.

The highly publicised Change.Org campaign for "Justice for the UK Victims of Libyan Terrorism" attracted just 13,500 signatures.

The PetitionParliament campaign to "Stop UK companies from profitting from Libyan crisis" attracted just 1 signature.

The PetitionParliament campaign to "No UK military intervention in Syria or Libya" garnered just 45 signatures.

The PetitionSite campaign "UK: Don't Abandon Libya!" managed just 1,462 signatures.

Where were all these protestors when people were appealing for real help?

In the USA a petition by Change.Org "Speak Out Now To Stop US Intervention in Libya" gathered 140 supporters.

The PeaceInIraq Centre instigated a petition: "President Obama: Put Iraq Back on the Agenda" that managed just 11,600 signatures. All they wanted was a plan for a stronger humanitarian effort to be made in Iraq.

A petition called "Stop the War Machine. A Petition for Peace" to Congress achieved just 3,784 supporters.

Trump displays a type of malignant narcissism rarely seen in the leaders of modern democracies and the press and been keen to label him. We have yet to see what Trump actually achieves. I suspect not much given the American constitution other than executive powers that Obama created and abused like no other President before him

Lastly, it might not have occurred to many of the same protestors that Britain's vote to leave the European Union has left the country in desperate need of trading partners. Last month Britain exported £4.4billion and Imported £3.4billion from America. If Trump gets the hump and decides he is more welcome elsewhere, the liberal left will have done for the working population of Britain exactly what they have done in the last 4 decades. They abandoned the very people who needed their help at the start of a right-wing neoliberal ideology four decades ago that has done nothing since but hollow out the industrial heart of one of the greatest trading nations that ever existed and pushed much of the the working and middle classes into a completely new class – called the working poor. Where are these protestors and their placards when it's really important?
A perspective from "true Publica"


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 06:01 AM

Well, you have all been asked now - ball is your court.

If any of you believe that for one nano-second the "Palestinians" are interested in a "two-state" solution then produce the map, drawn up by them that recognises a Palestine state and the sovereign state of Israel. We all know no such map exists and that the "Palestinians" have no interest at all in any solution bar one that guarantees the complete and utter destruction of the state of Israel and it's Jewish population.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 05:59 AM

From: David Carter (UK) - PM
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 04:15 AM

I don't think our craven Prime Minister has been filmed holding hands with the leaders of any of the countries which ban Israeli citizens though Teribus.


Yes, but was she holding his hand because:
A, She likes him?
B, He suffers from bathmophobia (fear of steps/slopes)?
C, She wanted to be sure where his hand was?


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 05:07 AM

Carroll, Greg F, Steve Shaw, DtG have been asked many times in the past and to-date none of them have ever been able to produce one.

I should like to inform this forum, the whole world and the universe that I too have never, ever, EVER been asked to produce one either.

And though Greg is currently not around, I think I can say with considerable confidence that HE has never been asked to produce such a map either. I can check that if anyone insists. We really are in the realms of alternative facts here, aren't we, Teribus? Or is it post-truth, can't decide...


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 04:24 AM

Carroll, Greg F, Steve Shaw, DtG have been asked many times in the past and to-date none of them have ever been able to produce one.

I have never commented on anything to do with the subject. Why suggest I have and why would you ask me when I know nothing about it? I can only suggest that you either come up with anything I have said about the Palestinian state or we can assume that you have made it up.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 04:23 AM

Several of the States Teribus cites as an excuse for Trumps tacism are considered fit regimes to sell weapons and instruments of repression to - Syria being typical - Teribus broke his neck defending ammunition and riot control equipment sales to Assad - that support is largely responsible for the present slaughter.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 04:15 AM

I don't think our craven Prime Minister has been filmed holding hands with the leaders of any of the countries which ban Israeli citizens though Teribus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 03:58 AM

This has been raised and discussed over and over again in arguments we have had - it has been raised as an excuse for Israeli atrocities as if one cancelled out the other
This present ban has been put into place by America, the leader of teh Western World - not by countries already in religious disputes with Israel over their treatment of Muslims
Al such behaviour generated by religious intolerence is unacceptable - Americas behaviour is just that and it is backed by our Government
As things stand at present, it stands to unleash a world wide religions war - Isis has welcomed Trump's behaviour - that says what needs to be said
One racist act does not justify another - we ca only influence the politicians who govern us
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 03:51 AM

"While Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party and coalition government support the bill, it has been met with fierce opposition from Palestinians, Barack Obama's administration, the EU and others in the international community in favour of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

Since when have the Palestinians ever been "in favour of a two-state solution"?

Perhaps someone on this forum could direct me to any map produced by Palestinian National Authority, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas or Hezbollah that shows what they see as being the borders of the "two-states" they think the "Palestinians" are working towards. Carroll, Greg F, Steve Shaw, DtG have been asked many times in the past and to-date none of them have ever been able to produce one.

Can't see any meaningful reference to Trump in that Independent Article Jom, so like most of your links it serves no purpose whatsoever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 03:31 AM

As it has been brought up by Jim and taking into account that all these protests have been triggered by an executive order from the current US President temporarily banning immigrants entry to the USA from certain countries. Perhaps all those supporting such protests could explain why previously they have been totally silent and not raised one squeak about all the countries that have a ban in place that refuses entry to their countries if you are Israeli or to anyone who even has an Israeli stamp in their Passport?


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Subject: RE: BS: Petition to not allow trump into the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Feb 17 - 03:11 AM

"I think the semites would be happy for you to stop 'defending' them, maybe stop mentioning them at all."
And I think the world would be a safer place if people like you woud stop trying to defend atrocities by dishonest name calling and suppression of facts
Those "semites" you refer to are "self-hating" Jews if they don't toe the regimes line.
You have proof of the claim that anybody who criticises Israel is Anti-semite - feel free to produce evidence - otherwise, the accusation remains what it has always been - an effort to defend ethnic cleansing and land seizure.
Now - put up or piss off - as they say in the best of circles - your squalid behaviour fouls the atmosphere.
Jim Carroll

Trump's contribution to ethnic cleansing.
"The Israeli parliament has begun a week-long debate on the final adoption of a bill that would legalise thousands of 'wildcat' Jewish settlement homes on privately owned Palestinian land in the West Bank.
The Regulation Bill would legalise at least 3,900 Israeli homes built without permission from the government, in 54 of the 'wildcat' settlements known as 'outposts'.
The legislation stipulates original owners of the land would be given either generous financial compensation or land elsewhere.
If approved, it would be the first time Israel has applied its own civil law to land it recognises as Palestinian-owned in the West Bank, law professor Amichai Cohen told AFP.
While Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party and coalition government support the bill, it has been met with fierce opposition from Palestinians, Barack Obama's administration, the EU and others in the international community in favour of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) has called it a "declaration of war", and Israel's Attorney General Avichai Mandelblit reportedly told Mr Netanyahu earlier this month that he would not defend the legislation against legal challenges because he believes it violates both Israeli and international law.
The bill was originally due to pass into law on Monday, but in opposition members of the Knesset tabled 500 revisions and requested more than a month of further debate in protest.
Around 2,000 people in support of the legislation demonstrated outside the building while MKs debated its future.
The week-long discussion is a compromise pushed through by the Knesset House Committee, after which the bill will be voted on. It is expected that parliament will approve it in its final form.
The international community views all Israeli construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem over the 1967 Green Line as illegal, whether authorised by the Israeli government or not.
Israel has made several bold new policy moves when it comes to settlements since US President Donald Trump was sworn into office 11 days ago, including plans for thousands of new Israeli homes in existing settlements.
The Regulation Bill was reportedly taken off the Knesset slate in 2016 while Prime Minister Netanyahu's Likud party waited for Mr Obama - who was critical of settlement building - to leave office.
The Independent, 31 January, 2017


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