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Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript

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GUEST,and e 06 Dec 16 - 07:06 AM
Steve Gardham 06 Dec 16 - 03:30 PM
Joe Offer 07 Dec 16 - 06:51 AM
JWB 07 Dec 16 - 11:27 AM
Joe Offer 07 Dec 16 - 06:44 PM
and e 28 May 20 - 10:50 AM
Lighter 28 May 20 - 02:14 PM
Steve Gardham 28 May 20 - 03:33 PM
sciencegeek 29 May 20 - 02:48 AM
Jim Carroll 29 May 20 - 03:30 AM
Steve Gardham 29 May 20 - 06:42 AM
and e 29 May 20 - 08:57 AM
Lighter 29 May 20 - 10:16 AM
Steve Gardham 29 May 20 - 02:29 PM
Lighter 29 May 20 - 02:44 PM
EBarnacle 30 May 20 - 01:00 AM
GUEST,Brian Grayson 30 May 20 - 07:49 AM
Lighter 30 May 20 - 10:51 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 30 May 20 - 11:09 AM
Lighter 30 May 20 - 11:30 AM
Bill D 30 May 20 - 12:58 PM
Steve Gardham 30 May 20 - 05:17 PM
EBarnacle 31 May 20 - 12:38 AM
Lighter 31 May 20 - 08:01 AM
sciencegeek 31 May 20 - 05:12 PM
GUEST,Dave Hatton 12 Oct 20 - 12:35 PM
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Subject: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manscript
From: GUEST,and e
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 07:06 AM

Here are 32 pages of information on Stan Hugill's bawdy sea shanty collection:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/59ha8fah2ozy6gb/Sailing%20Ship%20Shanties%20by%20Long%20John%20Silver%20%28Stanley%20J.%20Hugill%29.pdf?dl=0


The PDF above gives an index to the unexpurgated manuscript titled Sailing Ship Shanties, by Long John Silver [pseud. of Stan Hugill] which was done in Aberdovey, Merioneth, Wales in 1956-1957 and it includes correspondence about the manuscript.   The full manuscript (not present here) has the texts of all the shanties later "camouflaged" in Hugill's Shanties from the Seven Seas.   What is present is the title page and index to the MS collection along with correspondence between Stan Hugill and G. Legman about the manuscript along with fragments and discussion of the sea shanty texts.

I do not know the location of the full manuscript. It is probably at the Kinsey Institute Library where the bulk of the Legman collection went after parts had been sold off to collectors and dealers.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manscript
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Dec 16 - 03:30 PM

Wow! This is very important stuff. Do we have people near the Kinsey Institute Library who can copy for us?

Jon just posted something similar on The Ballad List but I couldn't follow clearly what is going on. many thanks, and e.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manscript
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 06:51 AM

It would be so interesting to see the song texts from that manuscript. They could transform shanty sings forever. I hope it turns up.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manscript
From: JWB
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 11:27 AM

Damn straight it will, Joe. I collected a few of the original versions from Stan at the first bawdy songs workshop at Mystic in the 80s, but to get the whole shebang would be incredible.

Good luck with the search to secure the full manuscript, Guest and e.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manscript
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 16 - 06:44 PM

Can you post what you got, JWB?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: and e
Date: 28 May 20 - 10:50 AM

The manuscript is on archive.org here:

https://archive.org/details/1956sailingshipshantieslongjohnsilver/mode/2up


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Lighter
Date: 28 May 20 - 02:14 PM

Thanks for this reminder, and e. The material has been online for a few years

But except for a few verses here and there, somebody seems to have removed the actual *texts.*

What remains, however, including the annotations, is significant.

Hugill frequently said that chanteymen (now my favorite spelling) almost never utilized double entendre - the favorite mode of folkie re-dirtifiers. His material bears that out. When not just sniggeringly blah, the outspoken verses in the manuscript might be tough to emulate today.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 May 20 - 03:33 PM

Okay that was great for starters. Many thanks for the heads up, now what happened to the texts?


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: sciencegeek
Date: 29 May 20 - 02:48 AM

What happened to the texts? Good question. Hopefully not what happened to the collection of translations by the original Sir Richard Burton - burned by his straight laced widow. Lord preserve us from disapproving do-gooders.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 May 20 - 03:30 AM

Just tried to log in and got a note "it ain't here anymore"
Perhaps Mary Whitehouse got wind of it !!
I think we might have a copy of it
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 May 20 - 06:42 AM

Jim
Do you mean what we've just looked at online, lists and letters to Gershon, or the actual texts of the chanties?


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: and e
Date: 29 May 20 - 08:57 AM

I do not know the location of the full manuscript. It is probably at the Kinsey Institute Library where the bulk of the Legman collection went after parts had been sold off to collectors and dealers. They have been cataloging parts of the Legman collection. Recently someone posted photos of Legman's 1905 Waverly Company Merry Muses


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Lighter
Date: 29 May 20 - 10:16 AM

As soon as I saw the material in 2016, I contacted the ISR (Kinsey) Library to determine if they had the missing chanteys among Legman's papers.

They didn't think so, but there'd just been a flood and everything was a mess. A few months later they confirmed that they did *not* have the chantey texts.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 May 20 - 02:29 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Jon. I remember you saying that now. back to square one then. I haven't read the correspondence yet but I presume Legman had the texts at some point. Let's just hope that some religious nutter didn't buy it to burn it.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Lighter
Date: 29 May 20 - 02:44 PM

I'd have assumed that aforesaid religious nut would have burned the whole thing.

Equally likely, to my mind, is that somebody appropriated the chanteys so as to gloat over them privately. But then why not take everything?

One would think that the original poster would have included the texts, if he'd had them.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 May 20 - 01:00 AM

Legman did have the texts. Stan told me that he passed him the manuscript to prepare it for publication. Obviously, it never got that far.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: GUEST,Brian Grayson
Date: 30 May 20 - 07:49 AM

The Internet Archive has it (search 'Stan Hugill' under 'texts'), but It isn't available to borrow. Poo!


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Lighter
Date: 30 May 20 - 10:51 AM

Sorry, but I don't see it.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 30 May 20 - 11:09 AM

I think he's referring to the already noted index file.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Lighter
Date: 30 May 20 - 11:30 AM

Me too.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Bill D
Date: 30 May 20 - 12:58 PM

from another thread, referring to still another thread:

"I will repeat essentially what I said on the other thread.

I know the guy who recorded that session. (He was an official tech guy at Mystic for a number of years.) He says has a copy of the tape, and has offered to let me listen to it, but because it was officially the property of the festival, he will not make copies.

I have NOT gone to his house and taken him up on the offer."
------------------------------------------------------------


"That session" refers to either an actual workshop OR a late night session with liquid enhancement. I am not sure which, but my memory is that it was not an official program session. My friend is still around, so after all these years it is time to get a serious answer from him. I will see if I can persuade him to post here about his claim to have a recording.
This is not a manuscript.. and if the recording exists, would surely not have ALL the songs the manuscript contains.. wherever it is.

I'll see what I can do....


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 May 20 - 05:17 PM

Anything would be better than nowt. I'm sure there are plenty here who would be willing to transcribe.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: EBarnacle
Date: 31 May 20 - 12:38 AM

The recorded session at Mystic was a Friday colloquium named something like Ribald Sea Songs. It is still, afik, in their archive.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: Lighter
Date: 31 May 20 - 08:01 AM

Not according to their Library's website.

I've emailed them. Stay tuned.


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: sciencegeek
Date: 31 May 20 - 05:12 PM

not sure if library staff is back yet... the festival tapes were not part of the library collection... contact Geoff Kaufmann on his facebook page to see if he recalls what happened


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Subject: RE: Stan Hugill's Bawdy Sea Shanty Manuscript
From: GUEST,Dave Hatton
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 12:35 PM

Glad I've found this thread now - I'm another who'd love to know more of the original, unexpurgated versions.


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