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BS: David Cameron is execrable

Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 04:26 PM
akenaton 04 Sep 15 - 04:25 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 04:25 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 04:19 PM
akenaton 04 Sep 15 - 04:07 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 03:53 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 03:19 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 03:05 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 02:37 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 02:32 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 02:29 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 02:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 02:20 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Sep 15 - 02:09 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 02:08 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 01:41 PM
Big Al Whittle 04 Sep 15 - 01:37 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Sep 15 - 01:36 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 01:32 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 01:29 PM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome on his new smartphone 04 Sep 15 - 01:26 PM
GUEST,HiLo 04 Sep 15 - 01:17 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 12:46 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 12:36 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 12:34 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 12:34 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Sep 15 - 12:18 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Sep 15 - 12:15 PM
Raggytash 04 Sep 15 - 11:39 AM
Big Al Whittle 04 Sep 15 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,HiLo 04 Sep 15 - 11:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 10:52 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 10:38 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 10:23 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Sep 15 - 09:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 09:25 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 09:07 AM
GUEST,HiLo 04 Sep 15 - 09:05 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Sep 15 - 08:58 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 08:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 08:30 AM
Big Al Whittle 04 Sep 15 - 08:22 AM
GUEST,HiLo 04 Sep 15 - 08:15 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 08:06 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 07:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Sep 15 - 07:46 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Sep 15 - 07:45 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Sep 15 - 07:37 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Sep 15 - 07:31 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:26 PM

Prove it.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:25 PM

Not only that Steve, but as the "Bigamy" thread illustrates, redefinition opens a veritable Pandora's box......and as always who suffers most? the children!!


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:25 PM

My last post was sent before Akenaton's latest nastiness was posted. Come along now, Ake-allies. Support that one if you have the cojones. How foul can you get?


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:19 PM

Disagreeing with gay marriage is not bigotry. Disagreeing with gay marriage, shouting your disagreement from the rooftops, claiming that it undermines society and will encourage sexual promiscuity because that's what gay people do, and declaring that gay marriage undermines an institute that is based on nothing more than tradition - well, in my book, that's bigotry. And it's bigotry that sets out to harm its targets. The worst kind. Sorry Keith. As ever, you're on the wrong side. As ever, lamentably, you won't see it in a million years.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:07 PM

Sorry for absence, just back from HD.

Big Al says...."i bet Ake feels like he's been set upon by a gang."

The gang don't bother me Al, they are like children. As Keith says, they simply have no reasoned response to my criticisms of the legislation.....they flounder about in their own ideology trying to insult, intimidate, browbeat, bully, but no reasonable argument for the redefinition can be found.
I would just say Al, that I do not yet go around muttering to myself, I am quite sure of the seriousness of this issue and try to be as accurate as possible in everything I print.
I have discussed the matter of homosexual "marriage" with the three couples who live in my vicinity, none wish to avail themselves of it and are quite happy to explain why. They see themselves as "different" to heterosexual family orientated people and are quite proud of the difference.....they have no wish to conform to heterosexual norms.

Only the densest idiot would hold to the case that all was well in male homosexual health.....the problem of course is intrinsic to the lifestyle, both the levels of promiscuity and the sexual practices involved in male homosexual behaviour.
In many cases homosexual "marriage" and union involve not just two men, but two men who are "married" or in Civil Union (primary partners) and a group of sexual partners known to each of the primary partners.   This is known as "The new monogamy" and according to the health agencies "open" relationships are one of the biggest risk factors in the MSM demographic.
Male homosexuality is demonstrably dangerous and unhealthy, the latest 2013 figures are a staggering 81% of all new infections amongst MSM....these results for HIV
, but the results for most male STDs are similar.

In conclusion most of the real liberals on this forum reside in the USA with the very honourable exception on this thread of AL, Keith and Hilo. There are others, but Steve, Raggytash or Dave the Troll do not rank amongst them.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 03:53 PM

I choose to ignore the request for no other reason than it is complete twaddle.

It is not twaddle.
All of you together hound him from thread to thread with abuse.

There is no gang. there is no persecution. Just like minded people (acting together as a gang!) standing against bigotry.

"Standing against bigotry"
That IS twaddle Dave!

Disagreeing with ss marriage is not bigotry.
Referring to real issues like infection and the role of promiscuity in the high rates is not bigotry.

If he was just making bigoted statements you could easily challenge and rubbish them.
But you can't.
That is why you all gang up and persecute him with mindless abuse and name calling.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM

"Not what I did."
I have done Keith - but you can put ir u to show I'm wrong if you wish.
You set out to give yourself support - I've no idea why Muskie does what he does, but that is obviously not his intention.
"He does not denigrate anyone for being gay."
Yes he damn well does - a previous posting, which he has not responded to.
"You have persistently depicted homosexuality as unnatural and have, at least once, described the practice as spreading the Gay plague
Describing same sex marriage as an attack on (your particular) family values is homophobic - and none of your business.
You have suggested that homosexuality tends towards pedophilia
The world has moved on - homosexuality is now fully accepted as a natural act.
Comparing homosexuality to addiction - (a self-imposed act) is homophobic - it is the way some people are, not what what they take a decision on - that is a long-established fact and until you get your head around it, you will remain homophobic.
The idea that homosexuality is a curable disease (like addiction) is a myth peddles by religious nutters.
Your patronising "sorrow for those who have felt the need to travel that path" is homophobic in the extreme
Homosexuality is a natural state for some people - like being left-handed.
Every posting you make on homosexuality serves only to make our point."
Ake has made every single one of those points, in several cases, on this thread.
homosexuality is a fact of life as is addiction, I feel sorrow for those who have felt the need to travel that path
Are we to assume that you are now out of the closet and share Ake's homophobic views?
There - isn't that better to get that load off your chest?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 03:19 PM

You are free to ignore my request to stop ganging up with others in the persecution of another member, just because none of you can challenge his case.

I choose to ignore the request for no other reason than it is complete twaddle. There is no gang. there is no persecution. Just like minded people standing against bigotry.

Until ake answers the question 'do you believe homosexuals are perverts' there is little point in even discussing it.

While we are on pertinent questions, why do you think i am inadequate? For someone who does not resort to personal abuse that sounds pretty insulting to me. I have only resorted to personal abuse in this case in retaliation for being called a troll and a liar. What is your excuse? Maybe I should rise above it, but I have not. Maybe I should rise above you calling me inadequate and not call you a wanker. I'll think about it. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 03:05 PM

He clearly does not denigrate gay folk as perverts.
Even supposing he lied about being friends with some, no-one would even claim to be friends with perverts.
You have no case.

I disagree with him on gay marriage, but I defend his right to express and defend that view.
That is because I am liberal and tolerant, unlike all of you.

You are free to ignore my request to stop ganging up with others in the persecution of another member, just because none of you can challenge his case.

You resort to abuse and think that worthy.
It is not.
It demonstrates your inadequacy.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:37 PM

You have no reason to call him a liar

And I have not done so. Simply said that we only have his word for it. I keep an open mind. If he tells me that he calls them perverts to their face and they are still friends, I have no reason to disbelieve it. But that has not happened. Good luck to him and all the more to them.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:32 PM

You should all get off his back.

Tell you what, Keith, when the management of Mudcat tells us to stop doing something I will take notice. Until then I am sure you will forgive me if I ignore your requests to a gang that does not exist, to stop something they are not doing.

This place gets stranger by the minute...


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:29 PM

Dave, you would not even lie about being friends with perverts.
You have no reason to call him a liar, but it would still show that he does not consider gay folk as perverts anyway.

Your accusation is baseless, and clearly false.

He disagrees with SS marriage and says so.
There is nothing wrong with doing that.
His statements about promiscuity and infection rates are factual.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
You should all get off his back and stop persecuting the man.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:24 PM

Jim,
posting with a deliberately faked identity to feign support for your otherwise unsupported argument,

Not what I did.
Look it up Jim.

Steve,
The whole thing is in his own hands: he avoids posting nonsense about gay people, he stops being criticised.

He is entitled to his views, and is happy to defend them.
He would welcome you to challenge them in debate, but that is not what you do.
If you could you would, but you can't, so you resort to abuse.
When a whole gang of you does that on thread after thread, that IS persecution.

Like many, he disagrees with SS marriage and says so.
There is nothing wrong with doing that.
His statements about promiscuity and infection rates are factual.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
You should all get off his back.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:20 PM

Back on the desktop. It's far easier!

Dave, he says he is on good terms with gay folk.
Why would he claim to be on good terms with perverts?
He would not.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
Stop persecuting the man.


I know he does. But we only have his word for that. We do not know if he calls them promiscuous perverts to their face or if it is only behind their backs. As to why he would say that, surely even you can see that? "I have nothing against Blacks/Moslems?Queers but..." is an opening line that makes me shudder.

Sorry if I am misreading the situation and genuine concern for anyone suffering but I can only go off what I see on here. And again here, there is no persecution. Taking a stance against what someone has said is not persecution. Unless of course in the strange world of Keith, that word has a different meaning as well. Does it?


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:09 PM

There's a picture on Facebook of a tiny baby rabbit being held gently in the palm of a man's hand. The caption is "You can tell the character of a man by his attitude to those who can do nothing for him" (or words to that effect).

Someone should show it to Cameron.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:08 PM

No-one is persecuting anybody. It's an internet forum, not real life. The whole thing is in his own hands: he avoids posting nonsense about gay people, he stops being criticised. You appear to be so much on his side, the homophobic side, that you would like us all to give him free rein whilst remaining silent. Won't happen, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:41 PM

Shows the power of the printed media. Unfortunately, it shouldn't have been necessary.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:37 PM

astonishing volte face by Cameron on immigrants.

one picture....


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:36 PM

"Not what I did Jim."
Yest it is Keith - it's exactly what you did and what you were reprimanded for.
You made some excuse about it being to "out" a troll" but it's what you became - a troll
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:32 PM

Dave, he says he is on good terms with gay folk.
Why would he claim to be on good terms with perverts?
He would not.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
Stop persecuting the man.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:29 PM

It is usually others who rake up the issue Steve.

Like many, he disagrees with SS marriage and says so.
There is nothing wrong with doing that.
His statements about promiscuity and infection rates are factual.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
You should all get off his back.

Challenge his views by all means, if you can, but stop the abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome on his new smartphone
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:26 PM

"Of course you would not.
Nor wound anyone including Ake, and Ake is on good and friendly terms with folk he knows to be gay."

How do I know that they are on good terms with him, Keith? Do they know he calls them promiscuous perverts? I have every sympathy for anyone suffering a personal tragedy but what does it have to do with this discussion? There seems to be a lot of smokescreens going up here.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:17 PM

I am not upset, I am not offended, I am amazed , . Well, no, amazed is the wrong word. But we should agree to disagree.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 12:46 PM

You are being disingenuous, Keith. His remarks on gay people, and the way he expresses his opinions on gay marriage, are ill-considered, ill-informed and biased against them. They are exactly the attitudes that have militated against equality for and the acceptance of gay people for decades. That isn't very nice, but that is not his concern. That much is as plain as the nose on your face. He somehow manages to work them into threads on unrelated tropics. He clearly has a mission to diss homosexuality in general. It's his obsession, the bee in his bonnet. It's OK to have a bee in one's bonnet but it's not OK express your uninformed views in ways which hurt or offend innocent minorities.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 12:36 PM

posting with a deliberately faked identity to feign support for your otherwise unsupported argument,

Not what I did Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 12:34 PM

"It is a critical evaluation of your posts on this subject"

Well it isn't a very good one.

"how I raise and educate my children is frankly none of your concern and it is presumptuous of you to think it is"

I have never concerned myself with the way you raise and educate your children as I don't know you from Adam. You're the one making it personal. I was speaking about people in general, not you or anyone else in particular.

I would just say (speaking in general again) that telling one's children that there is a God, making them pray and sing hymns in church and sit under a crucifix in a faith school has nothing to do with education and everything to do with indoctrination. But I'm sure you personally wouldn't dream of doing any of those things. Of course, that could be a rather sweeping statement, but sweeping statements that go with your own flow are probably OK, I assume.

"I know you can"t be offended, it is glaringly obvious."

I recommend the approach. Getting upset on an internet forum is the next worst thing to insanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 12:34 PM

A simple solution Al. He merely stops writing his bile on a public forum.

What bile Rag?
Like many, he disagrees with SS marriage and says so.
Nothing wrong with that.
His statements about promiscuity and infection rates are factual.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
You should all get off his back.

Challenge his views by all means, if you can, but stop the abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 12:18 PM

"So, are we agreed that David Camermoron is execrable?"
Absolutely - excremental even.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 12:15 PM

So, are we agreed that David Camermoron is execrable?


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Raggytash
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 11:39 AM

A simple solution Al. He merely stops writing his bile on a public forum.

We cannot change the way he thinks, however I do not consider that it is acceptable to continuously reguritate such bitter, ill considered claptrap without reaping the consequences of the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 11:27 AM

i take it all the abuse gang agrees on that point. there isn't a gang. the point is,,,you act as a gang. thats what it feels like. and its not nice.

what is it Paul Simon says....a loose affiliation, maybe.

i bet Ake feels like he's been set upon by a gang.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 11:03 AM

It is not an offensive remark. It is a critical evaluation of your posts on this subject , how I raise and educate my children is frankly none of your concern and it is presumptuous of you to think it is . I know you can"t be offended, it is glaringly obvious.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 10:52 AM

I simply would never knowingly be on friendly or good terms with someone I knew to be a pervert.

Of course you would not.
Nor would anyone including Ake, and Ake is on good and friendly terms with folk he knows to be gay.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 10:38 AM

I should like my accuser to apprise me of the sweeping assumptions I'm supposed to have made. My post was full of caveats along the lines of as-long-as. Like Jim, I know exactly how Catholics were often raised, possibly, probably, still are. I know how Muslims are often raised (I taught in Walthamstow for six years in in a school that was 40% Muslim). I know that there are people of both faiths who teach their children to be open-minded and ultimately, to be free if they so choose. My post made it clear that that's what I think. It is perfectly possible to be both a person of faith and fair-minded, despite the delusion. I also know that there are many of both faiths who tell their children that to demur is to risk social exclusion, ostracism, death or certain hell fire. Just because you disagree with me doesn't entitle you to hurl offensive remarks around about sweeping assumptions. Not that I'm capable of being offended anyway. Or enraged, for the record.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 10:23 AM

This gang thing. Or should I call it a team thing or a you-people thing. I have never met any of the gang. The only person I've privately communicated with in the gang is Dave, only then in matters unrelated to anything discussed here (we happen to come from the same part of the world, that's all). So just do yourselves a favour, conspiracy theorists. Channel your energies elsewhere and drop the neurotics.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:57 AM

"Also, I have never accused anyone of so called "gang" activity."
No you haven't - my comment was aimed at Al.
"One Musket goes on holiday, and all of them fall silent."
For somebody who has actually been warned by a forum fairy for posting with a deliberately faked identity to feign support for your otherwise unsupported argument, you are milking this one somewhat dry - funny that.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:25 AM

Very sneaky and underhand of you to reverse the case.
As you well know, what I put to you was,

"Would you remain on good and friendly terms with someone who was a pervert by your definition?"


Nothing sneaky or underhand at all. The situation would never arise. I simply would never knowingly be on friendly or good terms with someone I knew to be a pervert. I have no idea whether ake calls his gay 'friends' perverts to their face. If he does and they are still on good and friendly terms with him. they are far more tolerant that many on here.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:07 AM

One Musket goes on holiday, and all of them fall silent.
Funny that.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:05 AM

The sweeping assumptions bit was not aimed at you Jim, but at Steve. You certainly have made the wrong assumption Jim, shall we let it go at that, yes.
Also, I have never accused anyone of so called "gang" activity.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:58 AM

"How in hell did you make that leap."
You said-
"I have read threads here that have practically accused people of child abuse for raising children within a religious tradition."
Re-looking at it, I realise that your statement is open to interpretation - if I have made the wrong one - my apologies - there has been a great deal of discussion on clerical child abuse on this forum.
Nope - I am not "scary" in the slightest - quite shy and docile actually
" You do make some rather sweeping assumptions about how people of faith , or raised in religious homes are brought up."
I seldom, if ever "make assumptions, sweeping or otherwise, on how such people are brought up - my family are virtually all of a Roman Catholic background and I am well aware of the influence on their bringing up.
Had my father not been excommunicated for fighting on the "wrong side" in The Spanish Civil War, I would quite likely have been brought up a Catholic, as were my parents, grandparents, nepewss, neices cousins, uncles, aunts......
We now live in Catholic Ireland and most of our friends and neighbours are practicing Catholics.
In a country where the 96 percent of the primary schools are run by the Church - the next scandal to hit the fan is that while around 30 percent of the marriages here are civil ceremonies, many schools are demanding baptismal certificates before they will accept children as pupils.
My argument has never been with religion, whic is a personal choice, but with the behaviour of the church - on many issues.
"Jim says its not a gang activity"
It isn't, and to be accused of such is as insulting as anything that has been said about you.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:57 AM

Dave,
Keith, I simply would not call anyone I was on "good and friendly terms" with a pervert.

Very sneaky and underhand of you to reverse the case.
As you well know, what I put to you was,

"Would you remain on good and friendly terms with someone who was a pervert by your definition?"

Would you?
Of course not, and nor would Ake.

His statements about promiscuity and infection rates are factual.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
Leave him alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:30 AM

Keith, I simply would not call anyone I was on "good and friendly terms" with a pervert. It is not in my nature. I would not be friendly to someone to their face and then demonise them behind their backs to other people.

Al,

if this was a court case - there would be enough witnesses to convict.

Nonsense. It is not a court case. If it was there would be an equal number of witnesses to say that whatever was said was justified. It is all a matter of opinion. End of story.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:22 AM

I haven't valled anybody an idiot. the generation that hold all those views are the generation that fought for our freedoms and created a national health service etc. they're not idiots.

its just that time and the country has moved on. maybe not at the breakneck speed in some parts of the country as others.

what is the basis of your need for abuse?

You say the evidence is gone despite everybody remeembering it in graphic detail. if this was a court case - there would be enough witnesses to convict.

Jim says its not a gang activity - although you all seem to stand in a ring. that's what it feels like to be on the receiving end.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:15 AM

"Linking belief with paedophilia", My god Jim are you barking mad. How in hell did you make that leap. I said nor intended no such thing. It is that kind of absurd reasoning that makes so many of these threads unpleasant. How you have arrived at that conclusion is beyond me. But you are a scary man.
    Steve, I disagree with your take on belief and the raising of children. I was brought up in a very orthodox religious home, the most heated debates were held round our kitchen table. We were encouraged to question everything and to take nothing for granted. I do not feel that I have been indoctrinated, but rather enriched by that experience.
    You do make some rather sweeping assumptions about how people of faith , or raised in religious homes are brought up.
    There are millions of intellectually enlightened people of all faiths, don"t confuse us with nutters and bigots.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:06 AM

Dave, I am very happy for you that life is good for you just now.
Ake is living through a long standing and ongoing personal tragedy.
It amazes me that he manages to join in debate here at all, and his treatment when he comes here saddens me.

He may well have a different definition to you of what "pervert" means.
Would you remain on good and friendly terms with someone who was a pervert by your definition?

We know that Ake is on such terms with some gay men and couples, so I would say he does not regard them as perverts by your definition.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:54 AM

There was only one question about rights amongst my three, Keith. Neither that nor the other two have had a response from ake. Let us narrow it down to one to make it easier.

Do you, ake, believe that homosexuals are perverts? Yes or No.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:46 AM

but Ake....well he's like the old bloke you hear muttering behind you in the queue at Tesco. leave him alone!

Crikey! That is a bit of a turnaround. You have gone from castigating me for saying he is the village idiot to describing him as a village idiot that should be ignored. I am all for people muttering behind me in the queue but when they start to bang into the back of my knees with their trolley, it's about time to say something.

As to being outraged. Well, I'm not. There is enough real stuff going on for me to spare any outrage for people who I do not know or care about on an insignificant internet forum. I just do not like to see stereotypical abuse go unchallenged. Abuse me? I don't care. Abuse Ake? Fine. Abuse a group of people because of how they were born? No way!


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:45 AM

Many people think that marriage is a man/woman thing, as it always has been.
It is a valid opinion and widely held. A large minority.

No-one should be labelled as a homophobe or a bigot for that. It was the status quo within our lifetimes.

Why not just challenge those views and argue against them?
It is because you can't do that, that you all resort to abusive labelling and name calling instead.

And you tell yourselves and each other that it is something noble that you do.
It is not.
It is inadequacy.
He can beat you every time in debate, so you run from it, streaming nasty words over your shoulders as you go.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:37 AM

"The disappearance of the thread seems to be working in your favour"
The disappearance of threads is working in the favour of anybody who is making claims that need substantiation, such as yours on people linking belief with paedophilia - I would state categorically that it has never happened while I have been a member otherwise I would have objected - while I am an atheist, many of my family are not.
This idea of "gangs" needs knocking on the head
It seems that the majority of people who take part in these arguments are reasonably tolerant and humane in their arguments - there are refreshingly, very few racists and bigots, but there are a few (you could count them on one hand)
When they express their obnoxious, and on occasion, illegal views, it produces anger - natural enough.
That is not being a member of "a gang" - it is people who agree with each other agreeing.
The newest thing is accusing people of expressing views to win support and foster admiration - if that takes on, we will have no basis for continuing these discussion - this section of the forum will have no purpose.
We should not even be having this "you said - no I didn't" discussion here - it has nothing whatever to do with the subject and it's depriving those who have something to say on the OP from having there say.
Can I suggest we put a stop to our undemocratic behaviour and take this up elsewhere - maybe pistols at dawn somewhere.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:31 AM

He doesn't mutter at the back of the queue, Al. He stands on a soapbox in the car park.


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