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Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation

Will Fly 12 May 15 - 09:12 AM
Long Firm Freddie 12 May 15 - 09:15 AM
Will Fly 12 May 15 - 09:15 AM
GUEST,Jon 12 May 15 - 09:35 AM
GUEST,SqueezeMe 12 May 15 - 09:42 AM
r.padgett 12 May 15 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 12 May 15 - 09:52 AM
wysiwyg 12 May 15 - 09:57 AM
greg stephens 12 May 15 - 10:41 AM
GUEST 12 May 15 - 10:43 AM
Manitas_at_home 12 May 15 - 10:53 AM
GUEST 12 May 15 - 10:54 AM
Splott Man 12 May 15 - 10:58 AM
Will Fly 12 May 15 - 12:10 PM
Steve Gardham 12 May 15 - 12:13 PM
Megan L 12 May 15 - 12:37 PM
GUEST 12 May 15 - 12:44 PM
Mark Clark 12 May 15 - 01:04 PM
GUEST 12 May 15 - 01:15 PM
alex s 12 May 15 - 01:32 PM
GUEST,LynnH 12 May 15 - 01:39 PM
Mr Red 12 May 15 - 01:49 PM
GUEST 12 May 15 - 03:15 PM
Joe Offer 12 May 15 - 03:40 PM
Jim Dixon 12 May 15 - 04:02 PM
GUEST 12 May 15 - 04:03 PM
Steve Gardham 12 May 15 - 04:45 PM
GUEST,Dave Hunt 12 May 15 - 05:09 PM
GUEST 12 May 15 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,Jon 12 May 15 - 05:44 PM
Thompson 12 May 15 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,Jon 12 May 15 - 06:30 PM
GUEST,Susie 12 May 15 - 06:56 PM
Leadfingers 12 May 15 - 10:11 PM
MGM·Lion 13 May 15 - 12:20 AM
LadyJean 13 May 15 - 12:32 AM
GUEST 13 May 15 - 03:02 AM
GUEST,Kampervan 13 May 15 - 03:04 AM
Mr Red 13 May 15 - 03:38 AM
GUEST 13 May 15 - 03:52 AM
GUEST,Sol 13 May 15 - 04:57 AM
GUEST, DTM 13 May 15 - 05:16 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 May 15 - 05:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 May 15 - 05:25 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 May 15 - 05:26 AM
GUEST,Derrick 13 May 15 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Tootler 13 May 15 - 07:55 AM
Jack Blandiver 13 May 15 - 09:19 AM
Weasel 13 May 15 - 09:37 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 13 May 15 - 09:49 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:12 AM

I've put this under the "Folklore" heading, because I think local dialects and ways of pronunciation fall generally into that subject.

Down here in Sussex (UK), there are place names in the locality, the speaking of which mark out a local from a "foreigner" (anyone not local), and which aren't obvious from the spelling. The "local" pronunciation can vary from what might seem the obvious pronunciation in several degrees of difference - from slight variations in stress to real dialect variations. So, for example:

The "ly" ending to a word is usually stressed and pronounced as "lie" - as in Ardingly and Chiddingly ("Arding-LIE", "Chidding-LIE").

Sussex name stress is often on the last syllable, though this is dying out as ageing population dies and more newcomers arrive. So Seaford is pronounced "Sea-FORD", not "SEA-ford".

Alfriston is pronounced "OLL-friston", and the weirdest (and oldest) Sussex variations I know are for Heathfield, pronounced "Heffle", and Burwash, pronounced "Burrish").

Just come back from seeing a friend in Southampton this morning - though he pronounces it "Suth-AMP-ton!

I've been to Puncknowle, in Dorset, to find it pronounced "PUNN-ell" - that marked me out as a foreigner immediately...

What are your local pronunciations and variations - UK and US - and elsewhere?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:15 AM

Thornton Heath is Forntneef.

LFF


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:15 AM

Forgot to say: my mother was born in "Loowestarft" (Lowestoft) in Suffolk, and often visited "Narch" (Norwich) in Norfolk as a youngster.

Pronunciation as heard from her.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:35 AM

Wehn I lived in Kent, "Speldhurst" could be "SpeldHARST".

Round here, Norfolk we have

"Potter heigham" - "potterum", "Weybourne" - "webburn" and "Stiffkey" - "stookey".

Of course areas can have there differences as to what is correct. I was born in Shrewsbury which like my mother born and bred there pronounce "Shrowsberry". I gather my grandmother (mothers mother) from Westbury might use neither of these, using "Salop" for the town.

The largest portion of my own life was N Wales so whlie not a Welsh speaker, I can say things like "Dwygyfylchi". Some English want to call a village I once lived in as "Pie dew" (it's spelt Pydew and more sort of "pud ow").


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,SqueezeMe
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:42 AM

The New South Wales (Australia) town of Canowindra in pronounced Canoundra.

Goonoo Goonoo (NSW) is pronounced Gunner Gernoo.

Cairns, in Far North Queensland? I tell American friends that it is pronounced the way a Texan would describe the containers that beans are sold in....


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:48 AM

Dodworth and Cudworth near Barnsley, Sth Yorkshire

Doderth, Cuderth

Ray


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:52 AM

Barnoldswick=Barnick


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 May 15 - 09:57 AM

Covington, PA is Cuhvington, not Cahvington, after our sister city in KY.

Wellsboro is Wellsburra, not Wellsbohroh. (PA)

Lancaster, PA is LANC'uster, not LanCastEr.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 May 15 - 10:41 AM

Not exactly pronunciation: as a child, our shopping was done in Barnstaple. Which, confusingly to outsiders, was referred to by locals as Barum.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 15 - 10:43 AM

Launceston is interesting. In Cornwall, it is pronounced Lawnston, or Lanston. However, the town in Tasmania, named after the Cornish town presumably, is pronounced exactly as spelled.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 12 May 15 - 10:53 AM

Plaistow in East London is pronounced Plah-stow as opposed to the usual Play-stow. We also have Katherine Road pronounced eye-ne, and Balaam Street pronounced Bay-lam. In nearby Barking Movers Lane is Mow-vers rather than Moo-vers. These pronunciations are being eroded.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 15 - 10:54 AM

The Town Name plate for Woolfardisworthy in North Devon has , underneath the name and in brackets Woolsery which would seem to be how the locals pronounce it .


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Splott Man
Date: 12 May 15 - 10:58 AM

Leigh in Surrey is pronounced Lye, but just a few miles further East, Leigh in Kent is pronounced Lee.

Splott Man


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 May 15 - 12:10 PM

I'll be seeing some friends in "Congerton" (Cheshire), next week - Congleton to you.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 May 15 - 12:13 PM

Appletreewick in Yorkshire=Aptrick

A lot of longer local names are abbreviated in common speech and even on road markings

Bridlington is usually Brid
Withernsea is With


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Megan L
Date: 12 May 15 - 12:37 PM

Splott to confuse matters further the Leigh in Orkney is pronounced lay.

Milngavie is Millguy, Strathhaven is Strayven,Cullross is Cueross and my favourite was an old neighbour who told us he had been born in fifty and grew up in afart which translated as Foot of Dee (Aberdeen) and Aford


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 15 - 12:44 PM

Here in Indiana we rejoice in multitudinous place
names from the Old World and ancient history, and
place names from historical figures.

There's Milan, (of course a version of the Italian
city, Milano) which becomes MY-luhn in Indiana, rather
than Mi-LAHN.

The French nobleman who was such an important help to the
American revolution is honored by the name of Lafayette,
Indiana. But that name is variously pronounced as
Lay-fee-ETT or Laugh-ee-ETT, and I have occasionally
heard it as Luh-FAY-et.

The city name "Carmel" which you may see on a map of
California, is Car-MELL there, but in Indiana it's CAR-m'l.

The Indiana county named Terre Haute ("high ground"),
which should be more or less Tair-uh Hote, becomes
Tair-hut or Taira-hut, and sometimes (with tongue in
cheek) "Terrible Hut".

Peru, Indiana, is often spoken of as Pee-roo.

Both the city and the university named Notre Dame
abandon any attempt at "Note-ra Dahm", and are almost
universally rendered as "Noter Dayme".

And lots of other weird and wonderful place names which
escape my present memory. Some of them will come back
to me later, and I'll post them at that time.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 May 15 - 01:04 PM

I've long assumed the U.S. to be the worst offender when it comes to pronunciation of place names. I still remember picking up our French foreign exchange student at the airport and asking about her flight. She said they went through customs at Day-Twah'. It took me a minute to realize that she was using the correct pronunciation for the city we know as Dee-Troyt (Detroit).

Examples off the top of my head include…
  • Maa' drid (Madrid)

  • Tra po' la (Tripoli)

  • Ver sales' (Versailles)

  • My' lun (Milan)


I'm sure the complete list is very long.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 15 - 01:15 PM

Victoria, BC (Canada) has a suburb called Esquimaux, which is presumably the French for 'eskimos', but the locals call it Ess-kwye-morx.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: alex s
Date: 12 May 15 - 01:32 PM

In Northunberland "-ingham" is pronounced "ing jam", as in BellingJam, OvingJam etc.
A weird one-off is Lebanon Street in Burnley - the old-timers call it Leebanyon Street


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 12 May 15 - 01:39 PM

Ilson, Heena/Eyna, Bradda, Ossley, Tidsa, Utcheter, Traal.........= Ilkeston, Heanor, Bradwell, Horsley, Tideswell, Uttoxeter, Trowell.

Then we've Derby(UK) pronounced Darby and Erewash (Valley,river,canal) is most definitely not pronounced Earwash!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 May 15 - 01:49 PM

Walsall district of - Caldmore - pronounced calmer.
Northants - Coggenhoe - pronouced Cuckno
Northampton - Duston, in Northampton pronounced Dusson, in Duston pronounced Duston!
Staffs, Peak District - Ilam - eye lamb not 11:00 hours!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 15 - 03:15 PM

Slaithwaite = "Slowitt" (near Huddersfield)

Chop Gate = "Chop Yat" (north of Helmsley)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 May 15 - 03:40 PM

I spent my teenage years in Milwaukee, so I'm allowed to pronounce it Muh-WOK-key like the locals (silent "L").

Those of you did not live there in your formative years, are required to pronounce the "L."

There is a way that we locals pronounce "Wisconsin" that many outsiders try to imitate, but they always fail. Don't even try - just pronounce it like it's spelled, or we'll think you're making an ass of yourself by trying to make fun of us.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 May 15 - 04:02 PM

Cairo, Illinois is pronounced KAY-ro.

In Minnesota, there is a lake called L'Homme Dieu (probably Lac L'Homme Dieu) that is pronounced La-HOM-ma-doo. (It's not a very well-known lake, as lakes go. We've got 10,000 of them, don't you know.)

There is a suburb of Minneapolis that always throws newcomers. It's Edina – pronounced Ee-DYE-na. Now, I don't know how Edina got its name, but I've heard it's an old "poetic" name for Edinburgh, Scotland. Is "Edina" a well-known word in Edinburgh? Would a Scotsman pronounce it the same way?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 15 - 04:03 PM

In Nottnum it's pronounced Dah-beh or even Der-beh.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 May 15 - 04:45 PM

Burgh/brough/borough (the berg/borg of Scandinavia) have lots of spellings and pronunciations. The most common pronunciation is 'burra' regardless of spelling, but American tourists give us some interesting variations like 'borrow'.
Locally we have Middlesbrough, Scarborough, Flamborough, all 'burras' like Edinburgh but Brough is pronounced 'Bruff'. If the Brough comes at the beginning as in 'Broughton' it's pronounced Braw.

Wicks invariably drop the w
Alnwick=Annik
Beswick=Bezzik
Warwick=Worrik
Kilnwick=Killik


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Dave Hunt
Date: 12 May 15 - 05:09 PM

Happisburgh = Haze-brer (as in the end of Edinburgh)
Loughborough = Luff-brer

nearer home
Wednesbury = Wensbree
Wednesfield = Wensfeeld
Worcester = Wuster
Worcestershire = Wuster-sheer
Uttoxeter = Ucheter
Leominster = Lemster
Shrewsbury is interesting - Shroesbree or Shruwsbree,   Shrewsbury comes from the Saxon name 'Scrobbesbyrig' which doesn't sound like either of them!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 15 - 05:34 PM

I have no idea if this is correct or not but I did read somewhere that one pronunciation of Shrewsbury referred to the school and the other to the town.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 May 15 - 05:44 PM

I'm not sure if that could be (and don't think I've heard it suggested before) but my mother's secondary school was Priory Girls. I believe there was also a Priory Boys.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Thompson
Date: 12 May 15 - 06:19 PM

Towns called Leap and Balla in Ireland are pronounced Lep and Bal (rhymes with Hal). Howth is pronounced Hothe (with a soft 'th' like in moth but a long 'o' like in nose); Dalkey is Dawky, Donegal is Dunneygaul, with the emphasis just slightly more on the gaul. Galway is gaul-way. Louth (confusingly for English people) isn't pronounced like the place in England, but with a hard 'th' like the.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 May 15 - 06:30 PM

A bit of a drift but I can't do Irish words. I seem to remember getting told that the jig I'd called "Grainne's" (which I pronounced like you might cereal) should be a female name pronounced as "Gronya"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Susie
Date: 12 May 15 - 06:56 PM

Many good 'uns up in my native Cheshire - Cholmondeley said "Chumley" etc, but I think the one that takes the biscuit is Utkinton, said "Yockerton" [home of the famous Yockerton Freedom Fighters].
If you COME from Nantwich - like me - it's NantWICH, not NANTwich.
I suspect that a lot of these fascinating pronunciations in England, at least, stem from early names for those places - probably the Anglo Saxon / Viking names which stayed in the vernacular speech despite Norman overlords. Toponymy has always fascinated me!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 May 15 - 10:11 PM

And the next station after Hayes and Harlington is Striton , or West Drayton if you aren't a local .


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 May 15 - 12:20 AM

The village next along towards Cambridge [which BTW cannot possibly be pronounced as you just said it in your head], is called Wilburton: not pronounced Wilbur-t'n, but Will Burton.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: LadyJean
Date: 13 May 15 - 12:32 AM

The community just up the road from me is called North Versailles, pronounce Versayles. There's a Versailles Kentucky, pronounced the same way.

Elizabethtown Tennessee, has the accent on the beth. Elizabethtown Kentucky is called E Town.

The river that runs near my home is called the Monongahela. That's pronounced Mon on ga hay la. You can spot locals, we can pronounce it. People not from around here cannot.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 15 - 03:02 AM

In Kent we have Goodnestone near Faversham, this is pronounced Good Ness Stone.

We also have Goodnestone near Canterbury, (about 10 miles away), this is pronounced Gunstone.

Visitors to one, arrviing in the wrong one are frequently 'Not amused'.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 13 May 15 - 03:04 AM

That last post was me - Kampervan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 May 15 - 03:38 AM

I bet my Grandfather could pronounce Monongahela. He lived in Allagheny County, 1910-1917 (ish). He came back when he realised he was the only one of his workmates (Allagheny Iron & Steel) who didn't sleep with a gun under his pillow! There are two great uncles buried there aged 6 months and 6 days.

Wednesbury - we Wedgeburyites often referred to it as Wedgebury.
Wednesfield - referred to as Humpshire from the hump-backed lockmakers. It was said (jokingly) that pubs had alcoves so the hump-backed lockmakers could lean back comfortably.
Walsall - war sull
and what about the "areal of Brisel" - the "area of Bristol" to you.
Wiveliscombe Devon, Wivelscum
Stouffville Ontario - Stow-vill
Toronto - Tron'to


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 15 - 03:52 AM

Snozzle = Saint Austell, Snorbans = Saint Albans, Lu?n (where '?' represents the glottal stop) = Luton.

Fifteen miles apart, Houghton Regis is How (or Ow), Houghton Conquest is Hoe (or Oh).


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 13 May 15 - 04:57 AM

I've always pronounced 'Belfast' as 'BELfast' however in NI it appears to be pronounced 'BelFAST'. A friend from that city said that the residents of the city pronounced it the former way and the rest of the N Irish folk pronounced it the latter way. Is that correct?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST, DTM
Date: 13 May 15 - 05:16 AM

Towns/cities in Scotland

Milngavie = Mull-GUY
Linlithgow = LITH-gie
Edinburgh = EM-bra
Glasgow = GLEZ-ga
Anstruther = AIN-stur
Galashiels = GAUL-ie
Hawick = Hike
Newtongrange = NITT-in


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 May 15 - 05:22 AM

Belvoir in Rutland (Belvoir Castle, Belvoir Hunt etc.) is correctly pronounced Beaver.

I imagine that most places were once pronounced as spelled.
I bet that Laucestons in US, mentioned earlier, are pronounced as they were here at the time of their founding and probably as spelled.

Foreign names used to be always mispronounced in English as spelled, eg Paris.
Cairo, mentioned earlier, follows that pattern and features in a Dillon Bustin song.
Chile is rhymed with while in the Amphrotite song.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 May 15 - 05:25 AM

Frigate Amphritite.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 May 15 - 05:26 AM

Amphitrite.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 13 May 15 - 07:01 AM

What most people don't realise with the written word is it is an approximation of the spoken word.
Each letter is a symbol for a sound.
The spelling of the word is the writers attempt to imitate the word as it is spoken,a sort of code.
The spoken language has a great deal of information in it,tone,emphasis,and all the other clues we use to convey meaning are difficult to put into writing.
A local Knows how to say a name ie the way every one else does in the area,a visitor pronounces the name as it is written.
We are taught how to sound letters in school and teachers tell us a word should be pronounced according to the letters in it.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Tootler
Date: 13 May 15 - 07:55 AM

I have disagree with Steve Gardham about MIddlesbrough. I usually hear it as Middlesbro' with a long "O" I remember a station announcer using the same pronounciation for Peterborough - "Peterbro'' Definitetly a Teesside version not a local one from the Petrrborough area.

Newcastle is normally pronounced with the stress on the second syllable "NewCAStle". My wife's nephew married a lass from Detroit. For fun we tried to get her brother to pronounce Newcastle in that way and he couldn't manage it.

Where I used to live in W. Yorkshire, Linthwaite is pronounced "Linfit". Slaithwaite is the next village up the valley and the Slowitt pronounciation, though common was not always used. Some people used "Slathwaite" much nearer to how it was spelt. My brother-in-law uses both depending on who he's talking to.

I remember once we'd been to Manchester and were coming home on the bus. A woman in front of us asked the conductor (they still had them then!) in a posh English accent for Slaithwaite. The conducter looked a little unsure for a minute then asked her, in broad Yorkshire "Does t'a mean Slowitt Lass?"


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 13 May 15 - 09:19 AM

Anyone mentioned CAMBOIS yet? That's CAMISS to locals. Then there's SOUTHWELL - which is SUTHELL to out of towners but SOUTHWELL to locals. I like that.

It's right to stress the second syllable of NEWCASTLE, but the first syllable is flattened to a NYUH sound. Otherwise it's THE TOON.

Cley-next-the-Sea (as it was once; what's now the village green was once a harbour!) is CLY, though I much prefer the old JUXTA MARE suffix.

SALLE is SAUL or SOUL - three houses, cricket pitch and a cathedral in the middle of darkest Norfolk. I hope to be there this time next week.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: Weasel
Date: 13 May 15 - 09:37 AM

Always fun to hear non-locals try to pronounce Oswaldtwistle in Lancashire.

Weasel


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Local place names - local pronunciation
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 15 - 09:49 AM

Osselltwizzle if I remember rightly :-) My Sister lived just of Thwaites Toad there. Locally pronounced, unfortunately, as 'Twatsis Road'!


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