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No man's land protest

DigiTrad:
NO MAN'S LAND
NO MAN'S LAND (3)
NOBODY'S MOGGY'S LAND (No Moggy's Land)
WILLIE MCBRIDE'S REPLY


Related threads:
Lyr Req: The green fields of France (39)
Lyr Req: Green fields of france PARODY (27)
No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version? (89)
Lyr Req: No Man's Land (Eric Bogle) (46)
Lyr Req: Willie MacBride's Answer to Finbar Furey (11)
Greenfields of France parody... (34)
Alternative lyrics to 'Willie McBride -Flower (7)
Green Fields of France (48)
Lyr Req: Green Fields of France Parody (14)
Lyr/Chords Req: Green Fields of France (Engli (26)
Lyr/Chords Req: No Man's Land (15)
Lyr Req: Parody on Green Fields of France (26)
Lyr Req: Willy Mc Bride (41)
Lyr Req: Willie McBride (Parody) (6)
(origins) Green Fields of France (10)
Lyr Req: Green Fields of France^^^ (22)
Lyr Req: Willie Mc Bride's OTHER reply (2)
Lyr/Chords Req: green fields of france (4)
Lyr Req: no man's land parody (3)
Lyr Add: Willie McBride parody - new chorus (5)
Lyr Add: Not Willie McBride (7)
Lyr Add: The Green Fields of France (12)
Lyr Req: Parody of Willie McBride (21)
Lyr Req: Parody of Green Fields of France (5)
Lyr Req: Willie McBride / No Man's Land (5) (closed)
Chords for The Green Fields of France/No Mans (3)


Black belt caterpillar wrestler 06 Nov 14 - 01:43 AM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 01:52 AM
GUEST 06 Nov 14 - 02:48 AM
r.padgett 06 Nov 14 - 03:02 AM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 03:35 AM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 04:00 AM
MartinRyan 06 Nov 14 - 04:10 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Nov 14 - 04:45 AM
Leadfingers 06 Nov 14 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 06 Nov 14 - 05:49 AM
MartinRyan 06 Nov 14 - 05:57 AM
JHW 06 Nov 14 - 06:04 AM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 06:21 AM
thetwangman 06 Nov 14 - 06:30 AM
JHW 06 Nov 14 - 06:50 AM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 07:05 AM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,Georgina Boyes 06 Nov 14 - 07:19 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 06 Nov 14 - 07:33 AM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 07:42 AM
GUEST 06 Nov 14 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 06 Nov 14 - 08:02 AM
thetwangman 06 Nov 14 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 09:01 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Nov 14 - 09:13 AM
Richard Bridge 06 Nov 14 - 09:34 AM
Acorn4 06 Nov 14 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 10:09 AM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 10:19 AM
Anne Lister 06 Nov 14 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 06 Nov 14 - 10:30 AM
MGM·Lion 06 Nov 14 - 10:35 AM
Dennis the Elder 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 10:40 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 06 Nov 14 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 12:16 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 12:26 PM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 12:39 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 01:10 PM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 01:46 PM
G-Force 06 Nov 14 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 06 Nov 14 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 06 Nov 14 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 06 Nov 14 - 05:01 PM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 05:14 PM
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Subject: No man's land protest
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:43 AM

The British Legion is causing controversy by releasing a version of Eric Bogles song "No man's land", also known as "Green fields of France" and "Wilie McBride" without the all important last verse condeming war.
The stopwar.org.uk site (can't do blue clicky on my phone) has a petition to sign if you agree that this is unethical.
I would be interested to know Eric Bogle's own view on.this.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:52 AM

I dont think E Bogle is a mudcat member.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 02:48 AM

Interesting that this protester believes the song to be miscalled 'No Man's Land' (Bogle himself doesn't) and appears to promote the version perpetrated by the Fureys.

While agreeing that verse 4 is vital to the song, I find the alternative offered is also flawed, particularly in v.3

No Man's Land on EB's own site, a couple of minor errors, but at least they are the author's.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 03:02 AM

A big petition has been started ~ a folk song should be sung by a folk singer and not made into Pop in my view and sung as written ~ hope Eric Bogle's permission was sought and given however!

British Legion should be seen to be beyond reproach

Ray


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 03:35 AM

Notwithstanding anybody can sing any song, subject to observing copyright terms and conditions, and reserving a type of song for a type of singer isn't the best comment I have ever heard on here, I do support the principle of not losing the whole ethos of the song.

Not sure starting a petition against BL does anybody any favours all the same. Nobody would have bothered buying Rolf Harris's "Stairway to Heaven" if a petition hadn't started...

I doubt many in the Albert Hall see glory in war when singing along to Elgar's "Glory, pomp and circumstance of glorious war."


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 04:00 AM

a great way of drawing publicity to a folk song, and to eric bogle, and could lead to an interesting discussion on whether words should be changed without the authors permission, who knows we may have a visit from some people who will claim it is not a folk song because it does not fit into the 1954 definition.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: MartinRyan
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 04:10 AM

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

Regards


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 04:45 AM

I object to the suggestion in the song that Willy and his friends were so stupid as to fight without knowing why.
The song should not have been used at all,.
It is a great song, but not accurate.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:39 AM

The arrangement and the performance does leave a lot to be desired as can be heard HERE


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:49 AM

I haven't listened to the British Legion's version of Bogle's song, and I don't intend to, so please excuse me if I don't know what I'm talking about.

However, the issue here seems to me to be less to do with the bowdlerisation of a fine anti-war song than it is to do with the glorification of war. To use of any piece of music, including Elgar's Enigma Variations, and turn it into an emblem of war and a justification of the millions of lives lost is something which I find stomach churning.

You can find a link to the petition here . Please sign.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: MartinRyan
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:57 AM

Fred

DO have a listen! It's the most wonderful example of appalling musical taste that I've heard for a long time - and I've heard lots!

Regards


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: JHW
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:04 AM

The text on the stopwar site is the Irish version. ie 'countless white crosses in mute witness stand' dumbed down to 'countless white crosses stand mute in the sand' etc.
I'd vote for that version only to be sung with all the verses omitted, and the chorus.
stopwar site


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:21 AM

The countless white crosses must indeed "in mute witness stand" because revisionist so called historians are busy sanitising the carnage, callousness and poor leadership.

There is a huge difference between knowing why you fought and thinking you know why you fought.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: thetwangman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:30 AM

The text on the stopwar site appears to be the Furey's version. I wouldn't consider it 'the Irish version'. Many Irish singers sing Bogle's original lyrics. Having said that, I have no objection to the Furey's version. They had a big hit with it and fair play to them.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: JHW
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:50 AM

I'd wondered time and again where the 'revised' version came from and asked someone who sang it one night. He produced his book of 101 Irish songs.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 07:05 AM

Whilst I think this is an awful version of a really moving song, I hope it sells well and makes a lot of money for the Legion's work.

I sung it a few years back at a Remembrance Day service, and by the time I'd finished there was not a dry eye in the congregation, which I hope was a refelection of the song itself and not my performance ;)

John


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 07:16 AM

'I object to the suggestion in the song that Willy and his friends were so stupid as to fight without knowing why.

Keith, I suspect that in the majority of wars the average 'foot soldier' probably does not fully understand the politics behind the war, so it is a fair enough question to ask what they believed to be the cause, and I suspect that's what Eric Bogle is getting at in the song

John


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 07:19 AM

We all wondered what Eric Bogle felt about this version of his great song - well now we know:

Here's songwriter Eric Bogle's response:
"Was my permission sought when they decided to record this song? - No! !!
Did I know what they proposed to do with the song when they decided to record it? - No! !!
Do I approve of what they have done to the song ? (missing verses, rock'n'roll arrangement, etc) !
No, believe it or not I wrote the song intending for the four verses of the original song to gradually build up to what I hoped would be a climactic and strong anti-war statement. Missing out two and a half verses from the original four verses very much negates that intention."


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 07:33 AM

Martin. Can you or anyone provide me with a link to a site where I can actually hear this alleged mess of pottage?

I know that someone has already posted what is supposed to be such a link, but all that comes up is the Daily Telegraph news report.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 07:42 AM

Here on the artists website: http://www.jossstone.com/news?n_id=7231


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 08:00 AM

My father always said that he didn't enlist in the New Zealand army in WW I for any great patriotic motives but just went along with everyone else. He got discharged before going overseas because of a pre-existing medical problem but having been given such a flag-waving send-off he couldn't go back to the town where he had enlisted, so he came to Australia instead. He always kept his discharge papers in his wallet to show those people who, while mostly being outside the draft themselves, liked to go around giving out white feathers.
   Whatever the young men thought they were signing-up for, it's certainly a fact that nobody on either side had the least conception of what a horrifying experience trench warfare would turn out to be.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 08:02 AM

Thanks BH. That is awful. Worse even than I could have envisaged. I can only respond with something Wilfred Owen wrote about war.

DULCE ET DECORUM EST(1)

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas!Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: thetwangman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 08:29 AM

JHW, the Furey's 'revised' version probably appears in lots of those type of book by virtue of the fact that it was a big hit in Ireland. Still, it's a bit of a stretch to consider it the Irish version.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 08:55 AM

Joss Stone & Jeff Beck cover - dreary and overlong MOR pop gospel.... nothing special...

But let's be realistic, the original Eric Bogle version
is not a particularly interesting or engaging musical experience either...
and it's even longer and drearier...

Perhaps consider how much Bogle's intended "powerful anti-war message" is neutralized and undermined
by the uninspired boring performance & arrangement.

Personal tastes of course - neither are the kind of music I like to listen to..


...odd the things folks contrive to get their knickers in a twist about.....

..and before anyone gets up on their high horse,
I've been a lifelong pacifist and anti jingoistic-warmongers since very early childhood...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:01 AM

..and not that anyone cares.. but "Streets of Laredo" is one of my favourite songs...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:13 AM

John, I disagree, especially for that war.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:34 AM

I'm pretty sure that PRS/MCPS do not have power to license material changes to the works in its repertoire so there may very well be an issue of whether the version is indeed licit.

Keith, we know you like war.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:56 AM

I seem to be in the minority in that I don't particularly like the song that much, but that's the way it goes I suppose.

I have nonetheless signed the petition on the grounds of perverting the intentions of the writer, and dumbing down/sanitising the effect.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:09 AM

I've just listened to The Fureys with Davey Arthur's version.

That's not much better either... easy listening MOR 'folk music' productions.....



I've now got a niggly notion in my head that I've heard a much more stirring version of this song, or one of the 'Laredo' variants,

with an emotionally charged 'ironic' backing from a rousing 'military' bagpipe and drums marching band...???


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:19 AM

I bow to Bridge on such matters, but to borrow and totally change the intention of the thrust of the song sounds more like plagiarism than claiming it to be the same song?

I doubt the new "parody" clause would cover them?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Anne Lister
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:26 AM

I'm a bit jaded with petitions, myself, as they seem to be rife on Facebook for absolutely everything these days. So I'm writing directly to the head of PR at the British Legion (a Becky Warren) to express my point of view that the version they're sponsoring has altered the song to the point of removing its central message. I have in my time been a poppy seller and I have also recently written a song (using the "dulce et decorum est" quote, as it happens, as used by Wilfred Owen) inspired by a National Theatre of Wales production about the Somme called Mametz. My song was also inspired by hearing a survivor from WWII describing his own revulsion to great parades and processions to commemorate the start of WWI. We can honour the soldiers who died without sanitising or glorifying the war they died in.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:30 AM

I like June Tabor's version of "No Man's Land". Isn't "Laredo" itself just a variant too. Both songs stemming from "The Unfortunate Rake". Not that it matters they can all be judged on their own merits.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:35 AM

Another of these English singers -- I gather she comes from Dover -- for some reason incapable of singing except with that odd sort of cod-American accent called 'mid-Atlantic', which I always find super-depressing {I even OPd a thread about it a way back}, even tho one of my best friends, the pop-singer-songwriter Marcie Mycroft, points out that it's just the way songs like hers are sung. This admittedly isn't a song of that sort, & Ms Stone, tho doubtless talented in her own way & genre, seems to me a poor choice to perform it on the part of the BL. There must surely be more suitable English or Scottish singers capable of singing in their own accent who would have made a better choice. OTOH, they presumably want to maximise profits for their excellent cause, and reckoned from a biz POV that a singer as popular as JS, singing in the way that the record-buying public expects such singers to sing, should aid in this. I fear they may be right, at that.

Is one's priority to be with taste or with profit for good cause? Not a simple one to answer, it seems to me.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM

Sorry punkfolkrocker but I do not agree with your opinion regarding Eric Bogles song and version. To me Eric sings it as he intended, when he wrote it, with a strong message at the end in order to counter those who glorify war.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM

The Men They Couldn't Hang did a good version of it PFR, this might be more up your street? Men They Couldn't Hang

And Keith, When you consider the numbers who signed up under age, the huge jingoistic enlistment campaigns, peer pressure (white feathers etc etc) and the fact that some of the politics behind it all are still not clear to this day, I still think the question posed in the song as to what those boy soldiers believed is a very valid one.

My Grandfather lost his sight in a gas attack and was sent home, I never met him as he had died before I was born, but I'm told he considered himself one of the lucky ones, as he came home, and when asked why he went, all he would say is it was his duty and he had to.

John


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:40 AM

I've read that the earlier "The Unfortunate Rake" is a dying syphilitic soldier song..

Dunno how many poppies that would sell...???

Thanks, I'm off to google the June Tabor version...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 11:14 AM

June Tabor - She is good, sombre and minimalist.. best so far..

Men They Couldn't Hang - in the right direction, but over prettified guitars / mando ?..

Structurally, It's a long song, so maybe difficult to sustain a recorded arrangement
without lapsing into paint by numbers instrumental filler...???

The quest is on to find the best recording as far away from MOR and Brian and Michael style folk production as possible..

Actually, the Brass Band in "Matchstalk men and matchstalk cats and dogs"
might be a good starting point for an arrangement of "No man's land" I'd like...???


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 11:36 AM

If they wanted to maximise single sales then Joss Stone seems a poor choice. According to her discography on wiki her last single to hit the charts at all was in 2007 and that only got to number 84. She's since had 11 releases none of which even made the top 100.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:16 PM

The bagpipes and drums version nagging my memory, might have been a police or military funeral scene from a movie,
or perhaps this..Dropkick Murphys - The Green Fields of France ???

which is not too bad a version...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5xZQVkhak another anti war song with words altered


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:26 PM

Dick - I really like that.
I much prefere reeds to acoustic guitar 'folk' solo accompaniments.

Have you had a similar go at "No man's land", posted anywhere ?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:39 PM

Whatever, Joss Stone has one of those bluesy voices that I can listen to all day, (and have done...) whatever the rights wrongs and indifferences of this topic, her quality and talent in her musical genre is one of the most exciting I have had the pleasure to listen to.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:01 PM

punk folk rocker, not yet.anyway Ithink we should all sign the petition because it will do a number of things, draw attention to the missing verse and publicise a modern folk song.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:10 PM

my reservation about this petition is I consider it's exploiting the song merely as a vehicle
for having an attack againt the institution of the Brit Legion.

I'm not convinced STW coalition really give a monkeys about music or songwriters...???


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:46 PM

I don't think they do. Part of me is with punkfolkrocker here.

Many seem to be confusing the sacrilige of buggering about with the message of a wonderful song with their pro or anti whatever political thoughts.

It is a song. No more, no less. I too would prefer it to include the final verse, but we can't have old soldiers thinking their mates died for fuck all, now can we?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: G-Force
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:58 PM

I thought she came from Devon, not Dover.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 02:57 PM

Allan Conn. Not being a pop enthusiast, the name of Joss Stone doesn't mean very much to me beyond the fact (I think) that she was the subject of an abduction attempt not all that long ago.

However, the news that she hasn't had a hit since the devil knows when is interesting. Do I hear the cynical sounds of someone desperately trying to revive a flagging career?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 03:35 PM

What Eric bogle wrote in its entirety via fRoots:

Apparently Joss Stone's version of my song "No Man's Land" has polarised opinions. I usually don't comment publicly on other people's versions of my songs, but many of you have e-mailed me about this matter and seem genuinely upset about it, so I am sending you the following in reply to some of the questions I have been asked………please note that I will be entering into no further correspondence regarding this matter, I don't want to spend the rest of my life e-mailing on my computer, so you will have to accept (or reject ) what I have said below and leave it there…….! ! The copyright for "No Man's Land/The Green Fields of France" is held by my UK Publisher,! Domino Publishing, who are ultimately responsible for approving applications to record this song. When an artist wishes to record "No Man's Land" they must apply for a mechanical license to do so from the relevant UK agency, and pay a licensing fee. Permission to record is more or less automatic, especially if, as is the case with this song, it has been recorded before. At no stage in this process am I, the composer, involved. Generally speaking, the first I know of any new recording is when I see any subsequent royalties from the recording appearing on my royalty statements. ! !
When the artist(s) in question records the cover version of the song, they can, and often do, rework ! the song as to be almost unrecognisable from the original version. This is especially true in Jazz music, and is generally regarded as an acceptable creative exercise by the artist(s). Although! the publisher and/or composer could take legal action if they feel that the original essence of the song has been irrevocably altered and very much to the song's detriment, this very rarely happens. The bottom line is that so long as royalties are paid, any wounded artistic feelings are usually put aside.! !
So then, to the most asked questions about this affair:! !!
Was my permission sought when they decided to record this song? - No! !!
Did I know what they proposed to do with the song when they decided to record it? - No! !!
Do I approve of what they have done to the song ? (missing verses, rock'n'roll arrangement, etc) !
No, believe it or not I wrote the song intending for the four verses of the original song to gradually build up to what I hoped would be a climactic and strong anti-war statement. Missing out two and a half verses from the original four verses very much negates that intention. As to the musical arrangement, it's really about whatever floats your musical boat. I would have thought a strong mostly acoustic version would have done a better job of getting the message across, but that's just my personal preference, and I'm a bit of an old fart folkie. But then to do an acoustic version and include all four verses and choruses would have made the song nearly 7 minutes long, making it of doubtful commercial appeal in today's modern music market, given that the average attention span of that market's consumers is rarely more than three minutes or so. There's not much doubt that the shortened, up-tempo, bluesy version that Joss does will probably appeal to a much broader cross-section of the listening public, certainly to those who did not know the song existed until they heard Joss's version. ! !
Is the strong anti-war message in the original song diminished in this recording? Yes, missing some crucial verses does not help. But then this diminishment is only in the eyes (or ears) of people who have heard the original version of the song. Those who have not heard the original cannot make the same comparisons or judgements. They must take Joss's version on it's own merits and make their own interpretation. ! !
Does it follow then that this version glorifies war instead of condemning it? - No, in my opinion it certainly doesn't glorify it, but doesn't condemn it either, it just sort of starts off promisingly enough and then turns into a sing- along chorus type of song. Sentimentalising perhaps, but not glorifying.! !!
Will me or my publisher be suing Joss Stone, Jeff Beck or the British Legion? — No, you have to be joking. I would have wished for a version of my song that could have been more true to my original intention in writing the song, but if Joss's version touches heart or two here and there and makes some people reflect, perhaps for the first time, on the true price of war, then her version is as valid as anyone else's."


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:01 PM

I didn't mean to suggest that Fred. I imagine her heart may very well be in the right place. It was just another poster said it may have done for maximising sales. If that was the case then Adele, Emile Sande or that red haired guy (name slips by) would have been far more likely to make it a hit


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:14 PM

Eric Bogle does actually make the point that no-one has yet said, that this version will have far more commercial appeal, and that of course is the whole point of the recording.

There would be little point in the Legion publishing a 'folkie' version to a limited audience, hence the reason for this version.

As I said earlier, I don't like it, but I hope it makes the Legion lost of money.

John


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