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BS: water protests in ireland

The Sandman 01 Nov 14 - 01:06 PM
maeve 01 Nov 14 - 03:42 PM
GUEST,Triplane 01 Nov 14 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,Triplane 01 Nov 14 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,Triplane 01 Nov 14 - 06:00 PM
Gurney 02 Nov 14 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,Triplane 03 Nov 14 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,DTM 03 Nov 14 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,Dáithí 04 Nov 14 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,giovanni 04 Nov 14 - 07:45 AM
The Sandman 04 Nov 14 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,Dáithí 04 Nov 14 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 04 Nov 14 - 08:23 AM
Teribus 04 Nov 14 - 10:26 AM
The Sandman 04 Nov 14 - 10:57 AM
Teribus 05 Nov 14 - 04:11 AM
The Sandman 05 Nov 14 - 04:34 AM
Teribus 05 Nov 14 - 06:21 AM
GUEST 05 Nov 14 - 06:30 AM
The Sandman 05 Nov 14 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 05 Nov 14 - 06:57 AM
GUEST 05 Nov 14 - 07:43 AM
Teribus 05 Nov 14 - 07:55 AM
The Sandman 05 Nov 14 - 02:07 PM
The Sandman 05 Nov 14 - 02:44 PM
The Sandman 05 Nov 14 - 04:34 PM
johncharles 05 Nov 14 - 06:59 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 14 - 03:53 AM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 05:01 AM
johncharles 06 Nov 14 - 06:31 AM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 07:47 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 06 Nov 14 - 09:14 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 14 - 09:28 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 06 Nov 14 - 10:35 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 14 - 10:53 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 06 Nov 14 - 10:56 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 14 - 11:49 AM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 12:19 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 14 - 01:35 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 04:46 PM
Big Al Whittle 06 Nov 14 - 07:12 PM
The Sandman 07 Nov 14 - 04:45 AM
GUEST,Hilo 07 Nov 14 - 05:00 AM
Big Al Whittle 07 Nov 14 - 06:33 AM
bubblyrat 07 Nov 14 - 07:04 AM
The Sandman 07 Nov 14 - 02:36 PM
GUEST,Triplane 08 Nov 14 - 07:41 AM
Rumncoke 08 Nov 14 - 06:04 PM
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Subject: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 01:06 PM

130 thousand took to the streets today in protest against water taxation. time for an election.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: maeve
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 03:42 PM

This? Water charges protest...


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 06:00 PM

Ill drink to that, but seriously when politicians jump on the £/Euro bandwagon they forget to have the brakes checked.
Even more serious ... will the price of Guinness rise at the same rate?
They tried it in Scotland but didnt get away with it


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 06:00 PM

Ill drink to that, but seriously when politicians jump on the £/Euro bandwagon they forget to have the brakes checked.
Even more serious ... will the price of Guinness rise at the same rate?
They tried it in Scotland but didnt get away with it


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 06:00 PM

Ill drink to that, but seriously when politicians jump on the £/Euro bandwagon they forget to have the brakes checked.
Even more serious ... will the price of Guinness rise at the same rate?
They tried it in Scotland but didnt get away with it


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Gurney
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 03:35 PM

Triplane will be well plastered.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 06:29 AM

Sorry hit the submit button 3 times instead of once on a slow net day

Surprised that this thread didn't get more comment.
Governments sell of everything they don't want to be responsible for and anything their backers can make a profit on.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 07:46 PM

It's not life as we know it, Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Dáithí
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 07:26 AM

Tricky one isn't it? An Irish politician, defending the introduction of charges, made the comment "Water doesn't just fall from the sky!"

My view is that if you want it to be collected, purified and treated , then piped directly to your homes - then somebody has to pay for that.

In the Uk, we pay either a water tax or a charge based on metered usage. Seems fair enough....


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 07:45 AM

Water is the new oil.; somebody recently said that the wars of the future will be fought over water, rather than oil.

Ordinary Libyans already know this, as their irrigation system - known as the Great Man-Made River Project - also known through Africa as The Eighth Wonder of the World - was comprehensively bombed by the RAF in 2011.

To further make sure "the no-fly zone was upheld", they also in a separate series of sorties comprehensively bombed the only plant with the capability to make the huge pipes it needs.
It remains closed down and inoperable.

These decisions are carefully considered and decided at a high level. I wonder just who it was thought that was a good idea. And why.

g


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 08:03 AM

but if you pay for something you have the right to say i do not want flouride in it, it is no different from choosing what you want to drink in the way of beer when you go into a pub.
just because you pay for it in the uk does that make it fair[ where is the logic in that, further more southern england is short of water ,ireland is not, what should be happening is ireland should be selling it to the uk, instead a tax is being imposed to pay back a n irish debt to the EU, THAT IS THE TRUTH IT IS A REVENUE RAISING EXERCISE.
THE IRISH PEOPLE HAVE HAD ENOUGH. THE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FORCED TO LEAVE, THEMIDDLE AND WORKING CLASSES ARE BEING TXED WHILE THE ECONOMY STAGNATES BECAUSE THERE IS NOT MONEY TO BUY GOODS.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Dáithí
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 08:20 AM

No need to shout!


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 08:23 AM

Sorry - lost my password/login details so signed as'guest' for the mo!

It's not just about water here in Ireland but, for most people (not the 'fat cats', obviously), the 'last straw' after a number of taxes to bale out the un-secured bondholders (household charge/property tax/septic tank charge etc) & keep the austerity torture continuing! The people have stood up to be counted (as they did in Greece) & said "enough is enough, can;'t pay, wont pay"!


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 10:26 AM

"if you want it to be collected, purified and treated , then piped directly to your homes - then somebody has to pay for that."

That is the be-all-and-end-all of it.

Currently 20,000 homes on "Boil Water Notices" in Roscommon the article above linked to stated. By all means Dick, throw a tantrum and refuse to pay, but over the course of time infrastructure does wear out and it does need replacing and upgrading - and as Dáithí says somebody has to pay for that - and that somebody should be those who use the service provided.

Whether Flouride is put into the water supply or not is a decision that has to be taken on the basis of the greatest good for the greatest number. Flouridation still remains the best means of fighting tooth decay. Is dental care free in Eire?


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 14 - 10:57 AM

You are suggesting I am throwing a tantrum.
I am objecting to a private company taking over a previous state utility, because I know that a private company has to make a profit and to do this they either have to cut corners on maintaining the infra structure or charge the customer an increased amount.Ifind that unacceptable.
Flouridisation in the water is not necessary for controlling tooth de because flouride is in most tooth paste.it has been described as a poison
Teribus you are showing your ignorance check out flouridisation then ask yourself why the following countries banned it
the following nations previously fluoridated their water, but stopped the practice, with the years when water fluoridation started and stopped in parentheses:

    Federal Republic of Germany (1952–1971)
    Sweden (1952–1971)
    Netherlands (1953–1976)
    Czechoslovakia (1955–1990)
    German Democratic Republic (1959–1990)
    Soviet Union (1960–1990)
    Finland (1959–1993)
    Japan (1952–1972)[34]
    Israel (1981–2014) *Mandatory by law since 20


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 04:11 AM

"I am objecting to a private company taking over a previous state utility, because I know that a private company has to make a profit and to do this they either have to cut corners on maintaining the infra structure or charge the customer an increased amount."

Really? Apparently if the utility stays in public (i.e. State Ownership) then the state has to find something like 900 million Euros to fund what needs to be done to guarantee a constant, clean and health water supply - Best get your Cheque book out Dick.

Yes private companies have to make profits and those "service industry based" do so by doing the job more efficiently, not necessarily by "cutting corners" as you suggest.

As to the impression given in your post of 04 Nov 14 - 08:03 AM - scroll to the top of the thread and read down through them all then tell me who it is that is doing the screaming - only you.

Flouride exists naturally as a mineral (By the way one of the reasons Israel gave up flouridation of water supplies because of the natural level of flouride found in its water supplies)

As far as showing ignorance gows perhaps you should read through this:

Flouride Facts & Myths


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 04:34 AM

Teribus i am afraid you are MIS INFORMED.Firstly Iam not personally affected I have a private well.
water rates were abolished some years ago but that government put up VAT, SO they still had the same amount of evenue coming in. you say "apparantly" presumably you are recycling the official propoganda of the government that is mis information. the irish government are desperately trying to get revenue not to maintain the water supply but to pay back a debt caused by the collapse of the anglo irish bank, because they refused to burn the wealthy bomd holders such people as gold berg sachs. teribus you are a misinformed peddler of state propoganda.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 06:21 AM

Good heavens Dick, and here's me thinking that the reasons various Governments across the world stepped in to save Banks in their countries was to safeguard the savings of their citizens and businesses which would have all disappeared if the banks had gone under. I previously asked you about your Cheque Book, do you have a bank account or do you just stuff your "hard earned" under the mattress? Try living without a bank account these days - extremely difficult and that would have happened to everybody had the banks been allowed to go under. Without the mechanisms in place to facilitate debt and manage it perfectly healthy businesses would have disappeared overnight with all the jobs that those businesses created - or hadn't you thought about that part of the equation?

"water rates were abolished some years ago but that government put up VAT"

Ehmmm Dick I think that meant that you still paid for water only the new system was via "indirect taxation" - you did not get your water for free.

"you say "apparantly"

No I said apparently

The case has been put by Irish Water that 900 million Euros of investment is required to fund what needs to be done to guarantee a constant, clean and health water supply throughout Eire. I bet the people living in those 20,000 homes in Roscommon having to boil their water don't think it is misinformation or Government propaganda.

"the irish government are desperately trying to get revenue not to maintain the water supply but to pay back a debt caused by the collapse of the anglo irish bank, because they refused to burn the wealthy bomd holders such people as gold berg sachs."

Now that just isn't true is it Dick? Please read the following dated Friday 13th December 2013:

Ireland first country to exit eurozone bailout

After having exited and repaid the bailout loan the Republic of Ireland had to borrow money from international markets to fund the country for the coming year (2014) THAT is what has created the level of debt Ireland currently has (124% of GDP) and THAT is why the "austerity" bandwagon still trundles on - S.F.A. to do with bailed out banks, bond holders or Goldman Sachs.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 06:30 AM

...whether Flouride is put into the water supply or not...

Why are you all getting exercised over whether finely ground grain is added to water supplies?

I could understand it if you were arguing about a chemical, such as fluoride, but all that any of you seem bothered about is adding *flour* to water, which simply results in a rather unappetising paste.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 06:40 AM

Teribus If you want to accept government propoganda as truth you are free to do so, I know that your so called facts are rubbish so we must agree to disagree.
"After having exited and repaid the bailout loan the Republic of Ireland had to borrow money from international markets to fund the country for the coming year (2014) THAT is what has created the level of debt Ireland currently has (124% of GDP) and THAT is why the "austerity" bandwagon still trundles on - S.F.A. to do with bailed out banks, bond holders or Goldman Sachs."
the austerity band wagon carries on as a result of the initial refusal to burn the bond holders, if the bond holders had not been bailed out, Irelands situation would be different.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 06:57 AM

As many people in Ireland have said ad nauseum, they have already paid for their water (either through a local group scheme or by their money being taken from other taxes) - simples!


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 07:43 AM

[i]they have already paid for their water (either through a local group scheme[/i]

FWIW, if you've paid a group scheme, Irish water is not going to charge you again.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 07:55 AM

Ah something is so just because Dick Miles says its so - that must be awfully comforting for you.

By the way who were those Bond Holders who should have been "burned" and what were the "bonds" that they held? Good place to start your search Dick would be Hedge Funds and Pension Schemes and weren't the "bonds" Government Treasury Bonds? So you seriously advocate destroying the pension funds of insurance companies and unions providing pensions for their members?

If anyone appears to have swallowed propaganda wholeheartedly it is you Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 02:07 PM

TERIBUS, come and live in Ireland, then you will see the wholesale destruction to rural ireland.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 02:44 PM

The citizens of Ireland have been forced over the last two years to give the bond holders of Anglo Irish bank 20 billion euros. WHY? The Irish government recently told its people the 20 billion was not enough and they MUST give the same bond holders another 10 to 20 billion euros. WHO are these special people called Bond Holders that must be so carefully protected even at the cost of despoiling a nation?
I tried to find out. I failed. 15th October the British Blogger Guido Fawkes published a list of the bond holders. I would like to thank Mr Fawkes, and thank Unclear for posting the link and bringing it to my attention.
So those are the names but WHO are they? I thought this was something I could help with, to add my contribution to Mr Fawkes' break-through.
It is worth knowing who the bond holders really are because the Irish government has said more than once that one of the reasons the bond holders had to be protected and could not, must not, be made to suffer any losses, even though it would be PERFECTLY legal to do so, is because the bond holders are pension funds for poor Irish widows and cooperative savings funds for orphans and 'ordinary folk'. A little poetic exaggeration there, but only a little.
This 'widows and orphans' reason why the Bond holders must not take any loss, was trotted out to bolster an earlier reason that started to wear thin, which was that if Ireland pissed off the bond holders then they would refuse to ever deal with Ireland ever again and Ireland would never be able to borrow ever again, ever, and everyone would die in penury, friendless and cold. That first reason started to look like it might not hold, when the Germans started to talk rather too openly about how it might be best for all, them especially, if Greece did 're-structure' its debts (default on its bond holders – a teeny bit). When no one said it would be the end for Greece if it defaulted on the mighty bond holders, Ireland's 'the sky will fall in' reason for not asking its bond holders to share the pain started to look like what it was, a politically motivated lie. Thus the grannies and orphans had to be hurriedly wheeled out.
So, are the bond holders widow's pension funds and orphans' savings accounts? Well actually, NO. That too was just another lie from the morally degenerate and cringingly servile Irish government.
But don't take my word for it. Lets look at exactly who the bond holders are.
But first be clear about my method. Over all I have decided to compare Ireland's wealth with that of its bond holders.
I have looked at what the named companies do – according to their own literature. I have looked to see if they are owned by someone else and if so who and where the companies are registered and based. And I have looked at the sort of wealth we are talking about. On this last point, I have looked not at their market value – because that, as we all know, is a matter of creative accountancy and is also often not something the companies like to list, but at their 'assets under management'.
Assets under management gives us a view of the total amount of wealth these companies deal with so we can compare it to the total wealth of Ireland. Its GDP. Where a company is, in fact, owned by a larger one, I have used the parent company's assets on the grounds that on the other side, Anglo Irish has been treated as a subsidiary of Ireland and the entire wealth of the nation is being deployed and called upon.
So, on one side we have Anglo Irish and its 'parent company'/owner, Ireland and its 'bond' holders the people of Ireland. On the other, we have the companies listed as bond holders and the larger companies who own them and who are thus the ultimate beneficiaries and interested parties in those bonds.
On with the show!
Of the 80 listed companies only 7 listed their business as dealing with pensions and being a cooperative savings institution. Of those, only 4 listed churches and unions as their clients, the others could well have been big pension funds. The churches and unions in question were in Germany not Ireland. Those seven companies are amongst the smallest of Anglo Irish's bond holders. I only have figures for four of the seven. The largest, Union Investments of Germany, has a mere €165 billion in assets under management.
The total assets under management which I was able to compile from publicly available figures is €20,871,150,000,000.   That is an underestimate because the bond holders who turn out to be Private and Swiss banks don't publish any figures. So Anglo Irish's 'bond holders' hold and invest MORE than 20.8 trillion euros. Guido lists those bond holders as holding between them 4 Billion euros in Anglo Irish bonds.
Now, in my opinion both figures are likely to be wrong. Certainly my figure is a large underestimate. But taking them at face value Anglo Irish would account for an one 5000th of the total assets being managed by all the bond holders. So would even a total default by Anglo Irish cause that much, let alone systemic, pain and risk? Why are the 'Bond holders' and the Irish government so concerned that the Irish people be forced to take the loss and pay the debts for them?
Now lets look at the other side of the equation, at Ireland itself. Well Ireland's GDP before the crash, in 2008, was … drum roll please… €207 billion. Or 0.207 trillion.
SO…. on one side we have Ireland whose bond holders, its people, have between them a total GDP wealth of 0.207 trillion euros. Who are being FORCED, against their will, to pay Anglo Irish bank's debts to its bond holders, who between them hold 20.8 Trillion euros. The people of Ireland are paying to, and protecting the wealth and power of, people who have 100 times more wealth!
So where do these wealthy bond holders live and work?
Germany has the most with 15 of the bond holders. Who between them hold 5.3 trillion euros.
France is next with 10 bond holders. Who have about 4 trillion to keep them warm.
Britain is third with 9 who have around 3 trillion.
The Swiss have 6 but who have about 8.5 trillion.
America has only three and hold only a trillion.
Other nations include, Spain, Belgium, Portugal, Holland Finland, Norway, Sweden, Poland, South Africa and Italy.
All these figures are very rough. The figure for Switzerland is certainly under because Private Swiss Banks just don't publish figures. What we can say for sure, figures or no figures, is these are not banks investing widow's pensions or orphan's pennies.
So who are they? Well many of the bond holders are privately held banks, which list their activities as asset management for off-shore, non-resident and high value individuals. To give you an example, one of the private banks is EFG Bank of Luxembourg. EFG stands for European Financial Group which is the third largest private bank group in Switzerland. It manages over €7.5 trillion in assets. It is 'mostly', 40%, owned by Mr Spiro Latsis, son of a Greek shipping magnate. He also owns 30% of Hellenic Petroleum. His personal fortune is estimated to be about $9 Billion.
Now there is absolutely no suggestion that Mr Latsis has ever done anything wrong or illegal. And his holdings are, I am quite sure, perfectly legal and above board. But when we talk of Anglo Irish's bond holders it is Mr Latsis and those with his sort of wealth who we are talking about NOT widows and orphans or you and me. It is therefore worth remembering, the next time an Irish politician, or any of our politicians for that matter, say that some welfare payment can no longer be afforded, it is because the money that could have paid for it has been given instaed to the bond holders, people not unlike Mr Latsis. The Irish people are paying and protecting the interests of people like Mr Latsis over the interests of their own children. And it is their own politicians who have arranged this.
Other bond holders call themselves 'asset management' firms. The fifth largest asset management firm in the world is one of the bond holders. Others are insurance companies. The 6th and 9th largest in the world, to be specific. Others are the largest banks, Deutsche, Soc Gen, Barclay's, PNB Paribas, UniCredit (who don't appear on the list but own Pioneer Investments) and Wells Fargo (also not on the list but who own European Credit Management). Then there is Goldman. No show without the squid.
Kleinwort Benson Investors is a bond holder. But Kleinwort is owned by a Belgian holding company, RHJ which is part owned by Mr Timothy Collins. Mr Collins also sits on the board of Citigroup. So he too is one of the bond holders the Irish people are 'helping'.
Finally, a very large number of the banks who are Anglo Irish's bond holders, are members of something called the Euro Banking Association. All the large European banks, most of the large US ones, Swiss, Japanese, Nordic and some Chinese, are members. The chairperson is Mr Hansjorg Nymphius of Deutsche Bank. Other board members are from JP Morgan Chase, RBS, Bank of Ireland, West LB(bankrupt), BNP Paribas, ABN Ambro, Dexia and Banco Santander.
Its a list which could double as the list of Anglo Irish's bond holders. The EBA was set up in Paris in 1985, since when it has been and is, central to promoting European Union financial integration and the area's banking interests. The EBA has close ties to the ECB.
I will leave you to digest this disgusting bolus of self serving wealth protection.
The only thing left to say is this. The bond holders of Anglo Irish are a very good guide to the identity of the bond holders of ALL OUR BANKS. The bond holders being protected, in every nation, on the advice of the banks and financial class, are THE BANKS AND THE WEALTHIEST OF THE FINANCIAL CLASS.
THEY are screwing YOU!
For anyone interested in a very different take on the financial crisis, the failure of the policy of bailing out the banks and what it means for us, the book, The DEBT GENERATION is now finished and shipping.

UPDATE -

On the question of the veracity of the bond holders list. I have now had word from two people who both claim to have knowledge, one is an insider, and both say it looks correct to them.
Obviously the only way to be sure is to have each company on the list confirm. But short of that I think the confirmations I now have, suggest the list is true. Though one of them also said it looked like the list was partial with some names missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 04:34 PM

where do you live Teribus?is it the UK? If it is, kindly do not tell people in Ireland that they should be paying for water metering.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: johncharles
Date: 05 Nov 14 - 06:59 PM

an interesting point of view expressed by David Malone. http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/10/who-are-the-bond-holders-we-are-bailing-out/
very similar to GSS
john


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 03:53 AM

That wasn't really GSS but one of his unattributed cut and paste jobs from a piece written by Alan Ryan


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:01 AM

http://youtu.be/TXXik6XjeVs


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: johncharles
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:31 AM

The Celtic Tiger boom was a dream which many irish people bought into. Yes bankers must shoulder some of the blame but so must the irish people rushing in to buy overpriced property with over-generous lending. they would have fared as well if they had spent their time searching for the little fellow at the end of the rainbow with his pot of gold.
john


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 07:47 AM

john, many irish people such as myself did not do so and now we are being penalised, irish people who did not buy into the celtic tiger, many of them living in council houses or in rural ireland or on low incomes are being penalised for the folly of others, including mistakes made by irresponsible bank managers.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:14 AM

I think I'm right in saying that the bondholders we're talking about are the un-secured ones who were, in effect 'casino' bankers, gambolling investment in high-risk areas then, when it all went pear shaped, expected to & were, bailed out by the government which means the tax payers of Ireland! That is so very, very wrong & as far as I can see, there's nothing to prevent it all happening over & over again!


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:28 AM

"but so must the irish people rushing in to buy overpriced property"
The problem with relyin on "experts" is that they hold all the information and you have to trust them and totally depend on their advice
If somebody employed me as an electrician and their house burned down as a consequence, it would be outrageous of me to suggest that the customer was at fault for employing me in the first place - this is the logic of what is being suggested here.
The banks told people it was perfectly safe to accept large loans - it wasn't - they either lied or were incompetent - either way, the "experts" were to blame.
Exactly the same thing occurred during the property boom in the UK in the 1980s, which was based on Thatcher's 'property owing democracy' con - everybody owning their own home - a total disaster.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:35 AM

The banks told people it was perfectly safe to accept large loans

The banks were in fact actively pushing sales of loans. A number of times during the boom years I received offers of 'pre-approved' loans, 25K at first and later a 40K one.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:53 AM

Footnote
Bertie Ahearn -our beloved ex-leader, described those TDs who were prophesying a crash in the property market as "insane" - and he was a qualified accountant - you can't buck the "experts".
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:56 AM

It was worse Jim. He wondered, publicly, why don't they commit suicide?


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 11:49 AM

So he did - lovable little chappie!
There's a wonderful photograph of him standing up to his knees in floods - wish I'd kept it - wasn't one of yours was it Peter?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:19 PM

I am glad that Jim Carroll, Jim Martin and peter laban agree with me.come the revolution we will be on the same side.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:35 PM

"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"
Salvatore Guilioano


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 04:46 PM

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
― Oscar Wilde
I forgive all my enemies, life is short


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 07:12 PM

so what's the up shot...you have to pay more for water?


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 04:45 AM

not yet, there is an elction around the corner, mean while the one asset that we have [ rainwater]is not being collected and sold to those who are desperately short of it [eg south east england]. the politician sare shitting themselves because as puppets of their european masters they have been told to raise revune to pay back the angli orish loan, at the same time they know this measure and the awarding of bonuses to irish water is very unpopular, watch this space


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Hilo
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 05:00 AM

Never, never sell your water.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 06:33 AM

bloody right! they reckon the water round Sheffield was full of rat piss because the fat cats wouldn't invest in mending the pipes.


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: bubblyrat
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 07:04 AM

Is there REALLY someone called Hansjorg Nymphius ?? If so,is he a sex maniac ? ; with a name like that,he should be.

As to this water issue ; IF I go out in the rain and collect some in a bucket or other receptacle , take it indoors and use it to make tea or boil some carrots ,could I be prosecuted by the local water company ( Severn Trent) ??

"They taxed a pound of butter
And they taxed a halfpenny bun " ........( Ronnie Drew )


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 02:36 PM

today over a thousand protested in wexford


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 08 Nov 14 - 07:41 AM

Bubblyrat .... the end of the verse is a possibility ..... if only Jack Charlton was prime minister


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Subject: RE: BS: water protests in ireland
From: Rumncoke
Date: 08 Nov 14 - 06:04 PM

My husband's little two man business did some work for a firm in Ireland - then the Irish said they couldn't pay for it, but they kept on trading.

Now they want his business to do more work for them and have been told that they either pay up what is owed and then up front for anything more or it doesn't get done.

Great is the wailing and the attempts to persuade - but somehow I think that the past is catching up with the Irish economy in general - and one firm in particular.

There's been some very wrong thinking going on and quite a few people living in cloud cuckoo land whilst people in the real world have been watching in sorrow and disbelief.


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Mudcat time: 13 August 8:15 AM EDT

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