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fifties popsongs that started as folk

GUEST,henryp 27 Sep 14 - 07:47 PM
MGM·Lion 27 Sep 14 - 05:10 PM
GUEST,henryp 27 Sep 14 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,henryp 27 Sep 14 - 03:41 PM
bubblyrat 27 Sep 14 - 02:47 PM
Cool Beans 27 Sep 14 - 11:06 AM
fat B****rd 27 Sep 14 - 09:33 AM
PHJim 27 Sep 14 - 09:22 AM
PHJim 27 Sep 14 - 09:19 AM
MGM·Lion 26 Sep 14 - 02:25 PM
The Sandman 26 Sep 14 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,Desi C 26 Sep 14 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,Stim 25 Sep 14 - 04:27 PM
The Sandman 25 Sep 14 - 01:15 PM
PHJim 25 Sep 14 - 10:41 AM
GUEST,henryp 25 Sep 14 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Desi C 25 Sep 14 - 08:50 AM
The Sandman 25 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 25 Sep 14 - 06:12 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Sep 14 - 03:54 AM
The Sandman 24 Sep 14 - 06:38 AM
Mr Red 24 Sep 14 - 06:08 AM
Phil Edwards 24 Sep 14 - 05:36 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 24 Sep 14 - 05:30 AM
GUEST,cj 24 Sep 14 - 02:24 AM
Dave Hanson 23 Sep 14 - 02:43 PM
Bert 23 Sep 14 - 02:13 PM
The Sandman 23 Sep 14 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,henryp 23 Sep 14 - 07:41 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Sep 14 - 07:37 AM
Tootler 23 Sep 14 - 07:37 AM
Jack Blandiver 23 Sep 14 - 07:31 AM
Dave Hanson 23 Sep 14 - 07:28 AM
Jack Blandiver 23 Sep 14 - 07:01 AM
Tradsinger 23 Sep 14 - 06:56 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Sep 14 - 06:49 AM
Leadfingers 23 Sep 14 - 06:47 AM
Susan of DT 23 Sep 14 - 06:45 AM
MGM·Lion 23 Sep 14 - 06:45 AM
MGM·Lion 23 Sep 14 - 06:43 AM
MGM·Lion 23 Sep 14 - 06:39 AM
GUEST 23 Sep 14 - 06:34 AM
Jack Blandiver 23 Sep 14 - 06:03 AM
Leadfingers 23 Sep 14 - 05:57 AM
Stanron 23 Sep 14 - 05:50 AM
The Sandman 23 Sep 14 - 05:44 AM
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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 07:47 PM

Fritz Spiegl had an extraordinary life. He grew up in Austria. In 1939, his parents sent him, aged 13, to England to escape the Nazi persecution of the Jews. He came to Liverpool in 1948 as principal flautist of the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra.

He became an adopted Liverpudlian - his publications included Liverpool Street Songs and Broadside Ballads.

Johnny Todd he took a notion
For to cross the raging tide,
And he left his true love behind him
Weeping on the Liverpool side.

Johnny Todd was indeed collected in Liverpool. Fritz Spiegl and his first wife, Bridget Fry, arranged the melody as the signature tune for the BBC TV police series Z-cars. This was set in the fictional town of Newtown, based on Kirkby, Merseyside.

Sources; Mudcat and Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 05:10 PM

Johnny Todd was used for Z-Cars by Fritz Spiegl because it, like him, was of Scouse origin, & the cop series, tho ostensibly based in a fictitious suburb called Newtown, was clearly Liverpool based.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 04:06 PM

And in the sixties; Theme from Z Cars/Johnny Todd.

From Wikipedia; Based on the traditional folk song "Johnny Todd", which was in a collection of traditional tunes by Frank Kidson dated 1891 called Traditional Tunes: A Collection of Ballad Airs.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 03:41 PM

The Whistling Gypsy/The Gypsy Rover

From Wikipedia; Dorothy Scarborough's 1937 book A Song Catcher In Southern Mountains: American Folk Songs of British Ancestry includes a lullaby called "Gypsy Davy", which Scarborough collected from two Virginia women who had learned the song from their respective grandmothers who in turn had learned it in Ireland. Scarborough's "Gypsy Davy" has a similar construction to Maguire's song, both in some of the lyrics in the verses and in the "ah dee do" chorus.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: bubblyrat
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 02:47 PM

Or "There's a Moose Loose Aboot This Hoose" (" Wi' a Hundred Pipers an a' an a'" ) -- ( Lord Rockingham's Eleven ) .And I loved Donegan's "The Golden Vanity" .


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Cool Beans
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 11:06 AM

Who can forget Conway Twitty's rockin' rendition of "Danny Boy"?


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: fat B****rd
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 09:33 AM

"Have A Drink On Me" was based totally "Take A Whiff On Me" which was banned by the Beeb I believe.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: PHJim
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 09:22 AM

My apologies for drifting away from "Fifties" and into the "Sixties"


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: PHJim
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 09:19 AM

GUEST:Stim, I can't see Richland Woman as being the source for Sweet Little Sixteen. There's not much similarity. Sweet Little Sixteen is just a twelve bar blues that starts on the I chord. Richland Woman is a sixteen bar song that starts on the V chord.

Taking a broad definition of what's "folk" and what's "pop", You could say that John Hartford's Gentle On My Mind, which started life as a bluegrass song was made pretty poppy by Elvis and Dean Martin.
Jerry Jeff's Mr Bojangles crossed over to pop when Sammy Davis Jr. recorded it.
How about this one:

Clarence Ashley - Banks Of The Ohio

Olivia Newton John - Banks Of The Ohio


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Sep 14 - 02:25 PM

A decade earlier than the topic of this thread, in 1943, the Andrews Sisters had a hit with Down In The Valley [aka Birmingham Jail], which entered the pop-standard repertoire for some years and was covered by many other singers, from the Brady Bunch to The Chipmunks. Earlier recordings had been made, in the 20s by Tom Darby & Jimmie Tarlton and in the 30s by Leadbelly. It was also in Burl Ives's repertoire, in his influential Song Book, and on his Historical America In Song record set.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Sep 14 - 01:55 PM

on top of old smokey an american folk song collected by lomaxwas a hit in 1951


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 26 Sep 14 - 10:31 AM

Interesting point re Country songs becomming Folk etc. Not too many people remember now that Hank Williams Your Cheating Heart was 'Folk Song Of The Year when it was released. he 'Country' tag probably originated from the Carter family, again via radio where their music was introduced as 'Songs of the country' I class a lot of their stuff as Folk Music


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 04:27 PM

Speaking of Mississippi John Hurt, let's not forget that Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen" was pretty much "Richland Woman" with updated cultural references. When it comes down to it, a lot early rock'n'roll was uptempo blues; "Matchbox", "Long Tall, Sally", 'Blue Suede Shoes" and the like were basically older songs, with bass lines, chords, solos and floating verses that had been used and reused for fifty years or so in boogie-woogie, jump, blues, etc, with a few references changed.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 01:15 PM

it became a popular song because it was covered by a skiffle group, lots of people bought it because there was a craze called skiffle, but it was treated sympathetically and still was popular, in my opinion its treatment did not stop it from being a folk song.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: PHJim
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 10:41 AM

GUEST,cj - PM
Date: 24 Sep 14 - 02:24 AM

"GsS mentioned Freight Train, which is an interesting one as it was written, I believe, by one person - Elizabeth Cotton - and only introduced to the world reasonably recently prior to its adoption into the world of coffee shops. I'd always considered it a blues in the Mississippi John Hurt style - did this blues become a folk song because it was covered by skiffle groups?"

I have always considered Mississippi John Hurt's songs and Libba Cotton's songs folk music. I would put most blues in the category of folk music. While I sure don't want to get into the discussion of "What is folk music?" if John Hurt and Libba Cotton aren't folk singers, then who is?


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 09:22 AM

Michael, Row the Boat Ashore

The version of "Michael, Row the Boat Ashore" that is widely known today was adapted by Boston folksinger and teacher Tony Saletan, who taught it to Pete Seeger in 1954. Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 08:50 AM

Are You Lonesome tonight, old Carter family song long before Elvis


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM

all around my hat.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 06:12 AM

When Johnny Comes Marching Home by Adam Faith got to number five in the British charts in 1960.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqImVvfttAI


R


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 03:54 AM

"Guy Mitchell "Hair in Ring-u-lets" "
An extensively re-written and very much cleaned up version of'The Fireship' or 'Cruising 'Round Yarmouth'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 14 - 06:38 AM

anything of burl ives? lavenders blue?


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Sep 14 - 06:08 AM

Guy Mitchell "Hair in Ring-u-lets"
When I was in NZ my GF there remembered it. I vaguely do as well.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Sep 14 - 05:36 AM

I'm working up that Phil Harris song for next week...


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 24 Sep 14 - 05:30 AM

I seem to remember Guy Mitchell doing "Black-eyed Susie" and Johnny Ray doing "Let's Walk This-away" which was obviously taken from Leadbelly's "Hah-Ha This-away". I believe Mitchell also recorded "Cindy". Even before this there was "Irene Goodnight", and wasn't "Tzena Tzena" a folk song?


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,cj
Date: 24 Sep 14 - 02:24 AM

GsS mentioned Freight Train, which is an interesting one as it was written, I believe, by one person - Elizabeth Cotton - and only introduced to the world reasonably recently prior to its adoption into the world of coffee shops. I'd always considered it a blues in the Mississippi John Hurt style - did this blues become a folk song because it was covered by skiffle groups?


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 02:43 PM

I read your post Jack Bandliver but I couldn't be arsed clicking your link.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Bert
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 02:13 PM

There was a song based on The Crawdad song in the early Fifties.
I don't remember who recorded it.

I'm engaged to marry Sue
Honey
I'm engaged to marry Sue
Babe
I'm afraid to get undressed
Mary's tattooed on my chest
Honey oh baby mine.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 08:49 AM

"The imposition of styles and idioms foreign to a particular form results in that form being transformed. It becomes something different. Not necessarily something worse or better, just different."
brilliant analysis


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 07:41 AM

Oh, no John, no John, no.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 07:37 AM

"Strawberry Fair by Anthony Newly."
MacColl used this in his opening programme of the 'Song Carriers' series - still the best introduction to British folk-song ever produced.
We loaned a copy to the young producer of the proposed MacColl programmes, who was gob-smacked at their relevance, though she was only vaguely aware of Ewan when we started work.
Jim Carroll

Anthony Newly singing Strawberry Fair
Is it animal, mineral or vegetable? There are those who consider it to be folk music. It certainly began life as a folk song. Both the words and the tune were conceived in the folk idiom and it has been sung by generations of folk singers. And yet, there are many people who would deny that it is still a folk song when performed in that particular manner. What then, has happened to it? Its utterance has been translated, its idiom changed to that of pop-music It is as if we were to take over a pop song and recast it in a classical mould, and then have it performed by a string orchestra whose natural metier was, say, the Beethoven quartets. Do you think it would still be pop music? Conversely, if we took one of those same quartets and performed it on three electric guitars and bongo drums, would it still be Beethoven? It would not. The imposition of styles and idioms foreign to a particular form results in that form being transformed. It becomes something different. Not necessarily something worse or better, just different.
And yet, many of the young singers of the folk revival have based their singing style on what is called "the pop sound". They would probably argue: "Ah yes I But if only we had traditional singers as expert as those of Azerbaijan, or Spain or Syria'... "Well, it's true that most of our traditional singers are old and well past their prime. It is also true that our traditional singing style is somewhat run down. How could it be otherwise! The dislocation of our traditional way of life by the Industrial Revolution didn't merely result in fewer people singing fewer of the old songs; it also reduced the community status of those singers who did survive the changes in society and, ultimately, it resulted in a decay of style. Nevertheless, the few traditional singers who are still with us can, between them, furnish us with a fairly complete model of English, Irish or Scots traditional singing style. They are certainly much closer to the three singers we have just heard than are the most gifted pop group. Let's make a few comparisons. Here is our Spanish singer again, joined by an Irish tinker

Margaret Barry singing Lagan Love faded into a Canto Hondo singer

Both of those singers produce their voices in the same way. Both are concerned with high¬lighting the melodic line and both use the same open emphatic style of delivery. Let's listen again to the Syrian singer with his elaborately decorated melody followed by a singer from Donegal, Paddy Tunney, who also uses fairly complicated decorations.

Paddy Tunney singing 'Mountain Streams' faded into Azerbaijani bard

Song Carriers programme 1 Thursday, 28th January 1965


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Tootler
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 07:37 AM

I bought some sheet music from the 50s/early 60s at a vintage fair on Sunday. One them, "The Homing Waltz" was to the tune of The Streets of Laredo/Unfortunate Rake.

So new words to a traditional melody rather than a reworking of a traditional song.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 07:31 AM

Does no-one bother reading other posts? I put that way up top there.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 07:28 AM

Strawberry Fair by Anthony Newly.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 07:01 AM

Curiosity got the better of me....

The Thing - Phil Harris


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Tradsinger
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:56 AM

"The Twelth of Never" to the tune of "I gave my love a cherry".


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:49 AM

Donegan did a version of Sloop John B back then, and his Battle of New Orleans.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:47 AM

Verification of Guy Mitchell -'One of the Roving Kind' as I recall


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Susan of DT
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:45 AM

Stagolee.


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:45 AM

And, in interests of accuracy, she had a "dark and a rolling eye"


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:43 AM

GUEST Andy -- Yes can definitely confirm that Guy Mitchell song. I have it on my old, and much valued, The Best Of Guy Mitchell vinyl LP, titled "The Roving Kind". (Actual words -- "A nice girl, a proper girl, and one of the roving kind.")

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:39 AM

The Thing* {"Get out of here with your [Boom Boom Boom] before I call a cop"} has the form of The Farm Servant ["And there was I with me [Boom Boom Boom] so a-courting we fell straightway"], and echoed the Lincolnshire Poacher tune; and I have always suspected was inspired by them.

≈M≈

*"The Thing" is a hit novelty song by Charles Randolph Grean which received much airplay in 1950.
The song was recorded by Phil Harris on October 13, 1950


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:34 AM

Andy,
I seem to recall Guy Mitchell recording a version of a song which may (or not) have been 'The Fireship' which had the refrain.........'She had a dark and a roving eye. And her hair hung down in ringlets. She was a nice girl, a decent girl. But one of the rakish kind'

Anyone verify this?

Regards

Andy


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 06:03 AM

Get an blooming' earful of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pSKEaGM34c

1960. But when the cultural swing of the 50s come to an end? Like the 60s, which didn't end until 1977...


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 05:57 AM

Presley had a few - 'Love Me Tender' - rewrite of Aura Lee

'Wooden Heart' - Rewrite of German Folk song to name but two


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Subject: RE: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 05:50 AM

Just about everything in skiffle?


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Subject: fifties popsongs that started as folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 14 - 05:44 AM

Tom dooley, freight train,"Rock Island Line" / "John Henry". Worried man blues, all these are examples, anyone think of any more?


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