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BS: scottish independence

akenaton 21 Sep 14 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,achmelvich 21 Sep 14 - 03:28 PM
Musket 21 Sep 14 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,gutcher 21 Sep 14 - 11:34 AM
GUEST,MikeL2 21 Sep 14 - 08:30 AM
Musket 20 Sep 14 - 07:42 PM
GUEST,gutcher 20 Sep 14 - 03:42 PM
Ed T 20 Sep 14 - 03:39 PM
Musket 20 Sep 14 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,Sol 20 Sep 14 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,MikeL2 20 Sep 14 - 02:54 PM
Backwoodsman 20 Sep 14 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,gutcher 20 Sep 14 - 01:18 PM
Ed T 20 Sep 14 - 11:46 AM
GUEST,Stim 20 Sep 14 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,gutcher 20 Sep 14 - 10:17 AM
akenaton 20 Sep 14 - 08:37 AM
Thompson 20 Sep 14 - 08:11 AM
GUEST,gutcher 20 Sep 14 - 07:56 AM
Musket 20 Sep 14 - 07:55 AM
GUEST,MikeL2 20 Sep 14 - 06:40 AM
Musket 20 Sep 14 - 05:23 AM
Thompson 20 Sep 14 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,achmelvich 20 Sep 14 - 05:00 AM
GUEST,achmelvich 20 Sep 14 - 03:31 AM
Musket 20 Sep 14 - 03:13 AM
GUEST,Rahere 19 Sep 14 - 07:03 PM
GUEST,Troubadour 19 Sep 14 - 06:23 PM
Ed T 19 Sep 14 - 05:47 PM
Ed T 19 Sep 14 - 05:46 PM
akenaton 19 Sep 14 - 05:21 PM
Musket 19 Sep 14 - 03:18 PM
Thompson 19 Sep 14 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,Rahere 19 Sep 14 - 01:18 PM
GUEST,gutcher 19 Sep 14 - 01:02 PM
The Sandman 19 Sep 14 - 12:53 PM
Musket 19 Sep 14 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,Ed 19 Sep 14 - 11:54 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Sep 14 - 11:49 AM
GUEST,gutcher 19 Sep 14 - 11:23 AM
GUEST 19 Sep 14 - 11:21 AM
Mrrzy 19 Sep 14 - 11:17 AM
GUEST,Rahere 19 Sep 14 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,Rahere 19 Sep 14 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 19 Sep 14 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,Rahere 19 Sep 14 - 09:47 AM
GUEST 19 Sep 14 - 09:33 AM
Musket 19 Sep 14 - 08:42 AM
Ed T 19 Sep 14 - 08:38 AM
Ed T 19 Sep 14 - 08:23 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 05:27 PM

Cant agree with you there Achmelvich, to link between sectarianism and Unionism was always going to be an impediment to independence.
I've lived on the West coast all my life, and there are many of the older generation who were been brought up on sectarianism.
The UK parties used it shamelessly in local politics.
I have been talking to people who were in George Square and who were attacked by thousands of Unionist thugs, including a couple of hundred EDL supporters from England.
Compared to the optimism and positivity of the pro independence young folks, Unionism has a really nasty stink and the youth of Scotland didn't like it

Alex Salmond is right to protest the tactics of the NO campaign, making promises which they have no intention of fulfilling.

There was never any way that the other countries would countenance more powers for Scotland, so now Cameron is trying to link Powers for Scotland, to powers for the regions......lying arseholes.
I have no doubt the lies fooled many into voting NO.

Interesting talk in political circles of Scotland going for UDI if the UK leaves the EU.....or does not follow up on its promise of "Devo-max"


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 03:28 PM

i'm sure there is no real political link between the people causing trouble the other night and any of the mainstream political parties - other than far-right / fascist groups of course.
i hope that when the government fail to deliver on their promises made to secure a 'no' vote that the 'yes' group will prove to be far from defeated. it just takes some of us (and particularly us english) a bit longer than others to understand the true nature of the establishment beast. they are just incapable of delivering any kind of 'Vow' to make things better for any but their own friends. i'm greatly encouraged by the enthusiastic atmosphere of my most recent trip to glasgow - we can all do better than what we have become used to - stay hopeful, comrades!


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 02:15 PM

If you think any of the violence is pro anything you obviously think at the same level as the thugs and yobbos. Not to mention it takes two to tango.

Meanwhile Salmond shows his true colours by lying about Westminster commitments before parliament has even debated. If anybody is wanting violence it is the traitor who can't get what he wants from the ballot box so stirs up trouble instead.

You don't have any mates at any TV station so stop showing off and pretending you are impressive. Most here are intelligent. You aren't in the pub now you know.

Scotland has spoken.

Move on


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 11:34 AM

The events recorded on Friday evening in Glasgow show just who are the real and vile "nationalists"
The press and media cover since then, with the exception of our beloved BBC, always keeping in mind that no section of the media were in favour of a yes vote, have come out strongly with the facts that a well organized gang of thugs numbering up to 2000 with prominent union and other insignia proclaiming them to be of the NO persuation proceded to terrorised and intimidate a small[ in relation to their numbers] number of mainly young people who had been in the square for some time having a peaceful singaround. This gives us a glimpse of the damage to our national reputation by organisations whose proclaimed loyalties are shared by only a small part of our population. Indeed I understand that the supporters of Glasgow Rangers Football Club are known colloqually as "huns" this showing the average Scotsmans contempt for them.

My journalist friend informs me that the TV company Al Jazeera in showing these images of union jack wrapped thugs to the world implied that the imperial/colonial mindset still prevails in this country.

Sneer as much as you like but a prayer to whatever gods you believe in would not go amiss as the ticking timebomb, especially in the Southern part of this Island, may at any time be ignited.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 21 Sep 14 - 08:30 AM

Hi Gutcher

<" I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic, MikeL2.">

No I was not being sarcastic. I was there on that terrible night and saw for myself the trouble both before, during and after the fans were repulsed by the police.

I cannot believe that the hundreds I saw involved have now completely changed character.

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 07:42 PM

That's on a level with moon landings in Arizona and Prince Philip arranging Di's car crash.

As I said. The Scottish people voted no by a clear majority so stop linking them with one half of a few thugs putting on a sealed knot style punch up for the cameras and linking it to a conspiracy. Sounds like a normal night in Glasgow but without the sectarian excuse for once.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 03:42 PM

How right you are Sol.
One has only to check out the bedfellows of RFC---the LOL who certainly were involved in the disgracefull scenes in Glasgow on Friday evening. All news programs on TV with the exception of the BBC made it clear who were the aggresors, the BBC showed pictures on their site which were taken from their archives of the riots in the South, these show policemen in body armour, no Scottish policeman was equiped with body armour at this incident. Check out the many images recorded by other outlets.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 03:39 PM

Gutcher, I dont think Quebec's Cherest was refering to the few radicals/troublemakers on either sude. What he refered to was the political movement.

His experience (from what I gathered) was that the Quebec separatists viewed a close loss as a win, choosing to look down on the intelligence of those who wanted to continue to be part of a union, and seeing all those voting for separation as intelligent, (and knowing what they voted for). While this is an odd and unreasonable viewpoint-sometimes followers on the extreme edge of a movement have extreme tunnel vision.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 03:10 PM

Akenaton just said "get ready to resist."

Obviously the will of the Scottish people isn't to his liking. He could always leave of course if Scotland and Scottish values aren't good enough for him. He would just get in the way of those living there and those of us investing in Scotland.

Resist? Enough criminals roaming around Glasgow without him pretending to join in. This is what SNP caused. I hope the divided society they encourage is to their pathetic liking.

Luckily the violence is playing to the crowd by thugs with nationalistic ideas for excuses for violence on both sides. By Monday the press egging them on will have found a better story for the pack to follow. People wanting a better society will be starting to see how it will work out by Monday now this silly independence distraction is out of the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 03:10 PM

"No doubt many of these voted YES on Thursday."

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic, MikeL2.
If not, (and I assume you are referring to Rangers riotous visit to Manchester),you are totally oblivious to the well-documented referendum leanings of their support.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 02:54 PM

Hi Guest Gutcher

<" good conduct of their Scottish neighbours who in foreign parts made a coscious effort to be good ambassadors for their country.">

Maybe recently in foreign countries but here in England we have witnessed mindless violence. I live near Manchester and remember the hooligans that ran riot in the City in 2008.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_UEFA_Cup_Final_riots.

No doubt many of these voted YES on Thursday.

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 01:35 PM

"In this case, from what has been taking place so far, it is the winners who are trying to stir up riots etc. for their own ends."

No.

It is an extremely tiny number of mindless thugs using the result of the Referendum as an excuse to indulge their thuggery.

The vast majority of 'No' voters want no part in it.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 01:18 PM

Ed T.
In this case, from what has been taking place so far, it is the winners who are trying to stir up riots etc. for their own ends.

These people never got over the fact that when in recent years they staged riots in the South East of England and other parts of that land their efforts to export these to these parts were treated with the contempt they deserved, they should have learned the lesson given to the English football hooligans shown them by the good conduct of their Scottish neighbours who in foreign parts made a coscious effort to be good ambassadors for their country.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 11:46 AM

Interesting interviews, that may be related to the OP:

Interestingly, the Canadian Prime Minister during the Quebec independence vote says he was consulted on his experience prior to the Scottish vote.

The former Priemier of Quebec, (following the Quebec vote to remain in Canada) also provides his post vote experience. He predicts another Scottish vote within 10 years. He indicates that after the Quebec vote, the separatists refered to those who saw things differently as scared of tge consequences or did not understanding the vote itself. There was also attempts to the say that the other side used dirty tricks to scare the voters into remaining in the union. Oddly, he says those wishing to remain now say "fuck off, separatists, we undederstood what we voted for, we are nit stupid, were not scared of any threats- and, we want to remain in the union and merely see things differently than the separatists do".

On The post Quebec vote 


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 11:24 AM

Find it entertaining that there have been concurrent independence movements in Caledonia and Catalonia.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 10:17 AM

A contact in the newspaper industry informs me that the TV reports of extreme unionist groups attempts to stir up riots in Glasgow are confirmed by a two page article in the Sun newspaper.

He also tells me that the authorities are trying to keep an attempt by these vile people to set fire to the Herald newspaper building under raps. The Sunday Herald being the only paper to have openly supported the YES side.
The Scotsman Newspaper is of course owned by those friends of the people the Barclay brothers.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 08:37 AM

Sectarianism is a curse in Scotland, it is cynically used by UK politicians.....it is a huge power block, and when allied to selfish wealthy pensioners, English "carpetbaggers" etc, our young people have NO chance.
Salmond was a giant amongst pygmies, we have no one left with the guts to challenge the status quo....I don't blame him for finally throwing in the towel, those who did best out of the SNP Scottish government have voted against him and FOR their selfish interests.

What now for Scotland? Twenty years of UKIP TORY coalition government

....and the punishment!!    There are no votes here for the government which will be elected.....our weapons have been spiked by those who voted NO......We have no viable leader.

Get ready to suffer......or get ready to resist!


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 08:11 AM

According to a Channel 4 reporter, Alex, Thomas, quoted in The Independent, people were chanting "Rule Britannia" and "God Save the Queen", while making Nazi-style salutes.
These would presumably be in favour of a No vote.
I haven't seen any Orange sashes in pictures of the riots, not that I've looked at many.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 07:56 AM

Some time between 6.30pm and 8.30pm yesterday evening a Sky News reporter showing pictures of GEORGE SQUARE, GLASGOW. stated the following:---"At 6pm this evening 2000 loyal unionist supporters entered George Square from the West side and proceded to harass and itimidate anyone wearing a yes badge or saltire, they have now {sorry I cannot give you an exact time as I do not own a watch and have no clock in this area] cleared all these people through rhe South East corner of the square in full view of the police who are here in not incosiderable numbers."
All you clever chaps who post here can no doubt retrieve this report on your gadgets and check the veracity of my report.
PS--One other reporter stated that the unionist mob were predominantly orange lodge members and that they, the press, had prior warning that this organized display of naked agression would take place no matter what the outcome of the vote.
PPS-- How did the reporters know they were all loyal unionest supporters? The were certainly dressed for the part and as mentioned above prior notice seems to have been given to the press.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 07:55 AM

Funny. The British newspaper The Scotsman reckons it's mindless thugs, not the majority of voters.

British till you die unless you do us a favour and fuck off abroad and take a foreign nationality.

It's alright. Sound off linking crime to Scottish majority all you like. You lost now shut up or be part of the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 06:40 AM

Hi

This agro is getting worse. The Sunday Express today reports that because Andy Murray said he was voting YES there could be a backlash that would mean his mother would not now win Strictly Come Dancing.

This is incendiary - what next ??

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 05:23 AM

Aye so why did you slip the word British in when you meant lads wanting aggro for aggro sake?

You purposely tried to link it to the no voters, or the majority of people in Scotland as they are called.

It's a time to mend bridges not order the timber for a new one.

Scottish people today will be British for the rest of their lives. Now get your Parliament to sort out their social issues that they have been blaming others for but are in their gift.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 05:19 AM

This report by British newspaper The Independent sounds as if the Unionists were out for trouble.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 05:00 AM

not saying they weren't british - but the people who started the trouble were bigots, fascist -inclined and keen on violence. they are beyond the overwhelmingly peaceful majority on both sides of the scottish debate and seem to enjoy being as offensive possible - while (nearly) everyone else is keen to avoid disputes and getting into nasty and pointless abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 03:31 AM

up in glasgow for the vote and have been around george square for the noisy , entirely peaceful and enjoyable independence party. until last night when some unionist/ british national party turned up looking for a fight -their 'victory' apparently not enough without a bit of violence. can i say this was not the usual sectarian violence involving 2 glasgow football teams. there were no irish tricolours/ celtic shirts or any reference to the old battles in what was an entirely scottish and inclusive campaign on the yes side. any trouble was caused by far right wing, unionist and violent bigots - while they are overwhelmingly rangers supporters (apparently aided by an EDL contingent up for a scrap) this shouldn't be used to slur the majority of good people who support this team. it's a bit lazy to bring football into again - not quite as straightforward as that and much more nasty.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 03:13 AM

If it was aligned football teams you might as well align it to sectarian divide. Same thing.

Maybe just idiots playing to the media wishes.

Outcome as expected

Move on and start rebuilding the mess he left. One positive being that the question of Westminster values on a population that doesn't connect well with it is exercising politicians now. Not just the constituencies in the far north section of The UK

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

(One of those few moments where flag waving is appropriate. The good people of Scotland voting with their heads and averting a constitutional disaster for all.)


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 07:03 PM

Still, predictably enough, Glasgow decided to settle the aftermath traditionally tonight. Any news whether it was aligned with particular football teams might be kept quiet...


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 06:23 PM

Seems to me that there is little wrong with aspiring to acquire rather more of the wealth which one envies in others, but what I see here and increasingly in the population, is the wish for those one envies to be impoverished.

Not an attractive mindset IMNSHO!


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 05:47 PM

""Who the **** cares about real equality?""

"Possibly the gay community and the, so called "fearful women", who some see as less equal than other "real people"? (They may have a well-based reason to be fearful, considering some folks "closet" definition of equality).

;)


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 05:46 PM

""Who the **** cares about real equality?""

"Possibly the gay community and the, so called "fearful women", who some see as less equal than other "real people"? (They may have a well-based reason to be fearful, considering some folks "closet" definition of equality).

;)


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 05:21 PM

Disappointed, but not surprised.
As I said it became a battle between haves and havenots, wealthy pensioners, fearful women, with a large dash of sectarian laced unionism.

Interesting that over 70% of over 65s voted no, while over 70% of 16/17s voted YES......fortunately the young people are our future, hope they never lose their inspiration and idealism.

The poorest areas voted YES, the wealthiest voted NO.
Who the fuck cares about real equality?

Finally it was a victory, a victory for selfishness and fear.
A defeat for freedom, self determination and a proper chance at life for our young people.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 03:18 PM

If you can trust people enough to vote you can trust them to make decisions about their own homes. Don't confuse the many with those who need help.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 01:58 PM

In my opinion - no expert, mind - the problem with Thatcher's sell-off of publicly-owned homes wasn't that it put people into debt, but that it was accompanied by putting a stop to building any council homes.
The same was done in Ireland, and most of the people I knew who bought their council houses at very cheap rates immediately sold them for double (literally) what they'd paid. They then put the money towards buying another house.
The result was that house prices soared, and those on low wages no longer had the option of renting from the council, because the council houses were gone, and weren't being replaced. Then we started seeing people sleeping on the streets, something I never saw from my 1950s childhood until the late 1980s.
An extraordinary hostility has since grown up between those who have a little and those who had nothing - a modern version of what the Victorians called "tuppence-ha'penny looking down on tuppence" - and people talk about "dole scroungers" having "free houses" from the council, unaware that those few and prized council houses that still exist are as expensive to rent as private dwellings.
In England, John Lanchester has a good piece on this attitude change.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 01:18 PM

I think a case might be made that Project Fear was actually rather respobnsible: with no answers to a number of very important questions - currency, finance, inherited debt, diplomatic relationships, any one of which could have sunk the operation - it was an act of purblind folly to simply say we'll leave. Our society is never far from chaos, and Salmond brought you close to the edge: that was irresponsible.

What is also irresponsible is his resignation. As leader of a Party which lost a constitutional vote, the entire Party should have resigned, according to past precedent, bringing on a General Election. If he were to resign within that, it would be unremarkable, but going without removing the structursl problem is ducking the issue. Yet again.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 01:02 PM

I repeat there was bribery used, which meant that although the payments per month or per week were less this was still DEBT which had not been the case when renting.
As I said she was an astute woman.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 12:53 PM

"It should be here noted that in Germany where somthing like four fifths of the population rent their propery the effects of the Bankers induced meltdown has been minimal"
a good point, mortgages are a way of controlling the workforce, if you a rent a place ite easier to ove to where there is work.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 12:06 PM

Now we seem to be getting silly.

Aye, more people rent in Germany but companies are more likely to own their premises. Result? Err overall similar to here in terms of fiscal impact on society. Germany has many reasons for not being as deep in recession as we were and had reasons for not recovering as fast as we did. If you are poor in Germany, you are as cynical about recovery as you are here.

Owning was far cheaper than renting in much of The UK in Th*tcher's day and to say aspirations of owning your own home are playing to her tune, well that's insulting to a very creditable aim that if you are in a position to, do so. Sustainable low interest rates fuel property inflation and in her day, interest rates were sky high, although it took the Major years to really make mortgages untenable.

She may have been a bitch but she encouraged ownership, she didn't force it. If her approach was part of the problem, go to Dundee and ask yourself why it isn't a utopia...

🏡


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:54 AM

What, roughly, were you trying you say Backwoodsman?

(in words that 'she' won't find offensive)


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:49 AM

Bloody hell, she's done it again!


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:23 AM

Mention in my above post of chickens having come home to roost brings us to a conclusion that the self styled "project fear" of the better together side has certainly worked.
Mrs Thatcher, a very shrewed operator, saw that by getting people into debt meant that they could be easily controlled, if only through self interest, thus here in Scotland two thirds of the population who prior to her encouragment, by what can only be described as bribery, chose to give up their rented property and purchase it by borrowing on a mortgage, another word for debt thus putting them in the hands of the fearmongers whose allies the almost wholly owned forgeign press and centralized TV were not slow in magnifying every lie and half truth fed to them from above.
It should be here noted that in Germany where somthing like four fifths of the population rent their propery the effects of the Bankers induced meltdown has been minimal


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:21 AM

If you don't want the politicians to get off the hook concerning English rights, there's a petition from 38 Degrees on the go here. These petitions are weighty, the political parties fear them and they have a serious and weighty effect.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:17 AM

Apparently the cartoon is Mel Gibson in full Braveheart regalia, with the caption NEVER MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINDDDDDDDDD!


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 11:14 AM

Exit Salmond stage left, threatening a repeat performance. To his last, a political child - as are most in that country. "Now we can hold Westminster's feet to the fire" - really? When you never bothered to check if Gordon Brown, who made the promise you want ot hold the UK to, had the authority to do so? It's called Due Diligence, and is of the essence of all management.
In point of fact, it's not that which lost the case: it's his utter incompetence in preparing a case. When Tony Blair became PM back in 1997, he had had his shadow team working with their ministries for years before hand, they were up to speed. If you want to make a case in politics, it must be watertight. His wasn't, and he's paid the bill: few other than a few diehard Braveheart mediaevalists will miss him.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 10:31 AM

Now the shit is really hitting the fan: it would seem that the Scots can be given something being denied England. Now do you see why I want shot of them?
The question being raised all over now is whether Westminster itself is a failed State. Scottish MPs can vote on English matters, not not even on certain matters in their own constituencies, and it'll get worse with the new arrangements. We've only just got rid of the Irish peers, and no sooner do we dispose of some than others arrive. What a bunch of politicians.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 10:07 AM

from this side of the pond, no real idea how this will work out in the end... but regarding the vote...

85% of eligible voters went to the polls... pretty good, but that leaves 1 out of every 6 people who essentially abstained for whatever reason...

so of the 85% that voted to stay in the UK, that's approximately 47 people out of the total eligible voters and 38 of the total voted to leave.

I know it sounds better to say 55% vs. 45% but the real outcome was

15% abstained, 47% voted to stay and 38% voted to leave.

What remains to be seen is if the last minute promises are actually kept... or will there be 20 years of I told you so...?


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 09:47 AM

It would seem into the bargain that Gordon Brown was making commitments for the Government without any authority from the Cabinet.

Does the UK have a Government or did Cameron let his autocracy finally get the better of him, allying himself with the previous unaccountable mountebank?


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 09:33 AM

Interesting to note that off the five areas which had a yes majority at least two have some of the worst child deprevation in Europe,
this despite, or for their own reasons, having had Labour controlled councils for over 70 yrs.
A sign that the "Champagne Socialists" chickens have come home to roost.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Musket
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 08:42 AM

Democracy. Where one vote is as valid as the next.

Where your situation is not favourable you tend to want change. Where you feel change could be worse for you, you tend to go for the status quo.

That said, the poorer areas as Thompson calls them are more prone to be influenced by tabloids where more affluent areas are influenced by broadsheet newspapers.

Nothing surprising and nothing wrong with the outcome.

Scotland has spoken. Move on.



Although of course if the authors of some of the nationalistic song lyrics posted here on Mudcat over the last few months are happy with it, I can use some comedy in my act.

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 08:38 AM

Note my last post did not even mention the USA black-white-latino hate issues, gun vs non gun lover hate, religious-anti religious form of hate, and those who do not seem to hate any form if federal government. IMO, no country is hate free, or is even close to that-if that is a litmus test of unity.


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Subject: RE: BS: scottish independence
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 08:23 AM

""The USA Constitution provides processes for new states to enter the union and for current states to divide or reconfigure, does not have a provision for states to leave the union. A state would have to leave by force."" Adam Cohen

USA democracy, unlike that in the UK, where the Democrats hate the Republicans, the Republicans hate the Democrats and the Tea Party hate both, and it seems an increasing number of USA citizens dont seem to care much for the President.

:)


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