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BS: Where Are The Dames

GUEST,HiLo 02 Aug 14 - 10:05 AM
MGM·Lion 02 Aug 14 - 10:29 AM
Musket 02 Aug 14 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,HiLo 02 Aug 14 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,HiLo 02 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM
MGM·Lion 02 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM
gnu 02 Aug 14 - 11:44 AM
akenaton 02 Aug 14 - 11:57 AM
Mrrzy 02 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM
Doug Chadwick 02 Aug 14 - 01:12 PM
Musket 02 Aug 14 - 01:24 PM
MGM·Lion 02 Aug 14 - 01:24 PM
olddude 02 Aug 14 - 02:12 PM
Ebbie 02 Aug 14 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,Peter 03 Aug 14 - 04:40 PM
GUEST,HiLo 04 Aug 14 - 08:41 AM
Roger the Skiffler 04 Aug 14 - 09:09 AM
GUEST 04 Aug 14 - 09:33 AM
GUEST,HiLo 09 Dec 14 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,Triplane 10 Dec 14 - 06:27 AM
fat B****rd 10 Dec 14 - 06:58 AM
Hrothgar 10 Dec 14 - 07:00 AM
Hollowfox 10 Dec 14 - 04:23 PM
Ed T 10 Dec 14 - 04:47 PM
GUEST,HiLo 10 Dec 14 - 05:17 PM
Nigel Parsons 11 Dec 14 - 04:08 PM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 04:14 PM
Nigel Parsons 11 Dec 14 - 04:21 PM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,HiLo 11 Dec 14 - 05:23 PM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 05:36 PM
GUEST,Hi lo 11 Dec 14 - 06:35 PM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 06:48 PM
Nigel Parsons 12 Dec 14 - 05:01 AM
Musket 12 Dec 14 - 06:19 AM
GUEST,Triplane 12 Dec 14 - 10:12 AM
GUEST,HiLo 12 Dec 14 - 10:59 AM
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Subject: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 10:05 AM

It has occured to me that many male pop stars have been knighted and are now "Sir" as in Mick Jagger, Elton John, Tom Jones, Paul McCartney, Martin Carthy and so on. However, the only "Dame " seems to be Shirley Bassey. So, why not Petula Clark, Annie Lennox, The incomparable Kate Bush, perhaps the most innovative and influential artist of the last 30 years. Why not Norma Waterson, June Tabor, Maddy Prior, all of whom have made huge contributions to English music. Is it that female artists are not taken as seriously..What do you think ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 10:29 AM

Martin Carthy? An MBE, surely. He is nor Sir Martin — Yet!

Still, good question.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Musket
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 10:54 AM

And his wayward daughter...


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 11:16 AM

I was sure that Martin Carthy had recieved a knighthood but I could be wrong. And yes, Eliza for sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM

Oh, I stand corrected, Martin Carthy is not a "Sir", but he should be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM

"Martin Carthy MBE (born 21 May 1941) is an English folk singer and guitarist who has remained one of the most influential figures in British traditional music"

Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: gnu
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 11:44 AM

Good question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 11:57 AM

Not really gnu.....I have never seen the connection between folk music and the "honours" system.

How would one differentiate between the deserving and the undeserving?
Most of the stuff produced today is simply a search for a saleable sound.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM

Really, good question. Does Her Majesty have an answer (assuming They read this forum)?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 01:12 PM

Let's make it completely equal. Don't make anyone "Sir" or "Dame".

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Musket
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 01:24 PM

The simple top and bottom is that people are nominated. For a few years now, anyone can be nominated by anyone. Many folk singers down the years have, as in any media been nominated.   

The establishment is, as any forum, susceptible to sticking with what it knows, so far more dames from opera than folk could ever muster. One big plus, when considering entertainment is the commercial and therefore contribution to GDP of an act. A bit ironic with opera as it is heavily funded by taxpayers in The UK anyway!

There is a pro rata decent connection with the honours system and folk music, but as we know from (publicly) Roy Bailey and (privately) two others to my knowledge, you are more likely to refuse your gong if your style of folk is somewhat political.

The resurgence of folk roots in young acts doing rather well on the world's stage is hugely encouraging from an entertainment value, and this summer I have seen some cracking acts at festivals, bought some wonderful albums and am rather upbeat for the "style." The platform, as in the many threads of the demise of the traditional folk club is a different argument entirely. Same as recognition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 01:24 PM

ake -- but it's not just the folk scene that the question is about. Shirley Bassey is not part of our Scene. Nor any of the knights named in the OP (except Martin, which was a mistake!). But, as he says, what of Annie Lennox, Petula Clark, Kate Bush?

So -- still a good question.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: olddude
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 02:12 PM

I. Hearby declare all you good ladies cause there is nothing like a dame so you are now dames


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 04:27 PM

In looking at a list of British 'Dames' I see that Julie Andrews is one of the number.

As is Elizabeth Taylor. And Barbara Cartland, the writer of juicy romances. Oh, and she belonged to an illustrious family. That must be enough to make her a standout.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 04:40 PM

Full list of holders of DBE

Other orders

According to Wikipedia there are currently 591 DBEs but 1011 KBEs. You can work the odds out for yourselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Aug 14 - 08:41 AM

Yes, I did look at the List. That is what prompted my question. I was thinking specifically about singers in the pop/folk world and that if so many male pop stars had gotten these honours, why not women like Petula Clark, Kate Bush and so on. They seem to me to be every bit as worthy. So, I just wondered if females in those genres were undervalued.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Aug 14 - 09:09 AM

...and many of them are peeresses who have already inherited a title by birth or marriage. Presumably they get it for being ladies in waiting to HMQ etc or being on the letterhead of umpteen charities!
Never seen the point of these things- newspapers praise "unsung heroes" (ie those on low salaries who do unrewarded good work) but they usually get the low grade BEM or MBE leaving higher ranking forces people and civil servants who get them for doing the job they're paid to do. Despite statements that they'd reduce civil servant honours there's a whole order (CMG) for Foreign Office hacks only!
When 'er indoors was a civil servant and went on strike her manager told her that meant she'd never get an honour!
RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 14 - 09:33 AM

Presumably they get it for being ladies in waiting to HMQ etc or being on the letterhead of umpteen charities!

Like the civil service personal service to the monarch gets its own order (Royal Victorian Order) so the whole "buggins turn" issue is irrelevant to the discussion in hand.

Most countries have awards systems, admittedly without such anachronistic labels. Why do Brits get so uptight about it? We don't see perpetual complaints from Americans about who did or did not get awarded the National Medal of Arts or about the very existence of the Presidential Rank Awards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Dec 14 - 12:31 PM

I am not upset, I am just curious. In view of the fact that so many young female pop stars are occupying the charts these days , I wonder why the trailblazers have not been honoured. Thats all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 06:27 AM

When I get my knighthood I want to be known as Sir Cumference


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: fat B****rd
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 06:58 AM

Thanks to my parents I would be Sir Kumsized. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Hrothgar
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 07:00 AM

What ain't we got?
We ain't got dames!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Hollowfox
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 04:23 PM

I believe that Jean Redpath got damed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 04:47 PM

Conrad Black 

If former media magnate, (and US of A convicted financial-felon) Conrad Black could be a UK Baron, it opens the door for just about anyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 05:17 PM

I did not know that Conras black was a female singer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 04:08 PM

From: GUEST,Triplane - PM
Date: 10 Dec 14 - 06:27 AM

When I get my knighthood I want to be known as Sir Cumference


Too late, Harry Seccombe already made that claim back in the eighties:)
Although, as he left us in 2001, maybe the title is available again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 04:14 PM

""When I get my knighthood I want to be known as Sir Cumference ""

At least it is not Sir Circumcision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 04:21 PM

Just for the sake of balance:
Judi Dench DBE, Cleo Laine DBE, Angela Lansbury DBE, Vera Lynn DBE, & Kiri Te Kanawa DBE can all be added to the aforementioned Burly Chassis as she's sometimes known :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 04:25 PM

It's pronounced Las Conras del Black 


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 05:23 PM

My original questiOn had to dO with why sOme very influential women in popular music,such as Kate bush, petula Clarke and Annie LennO x have not been hp lured when peoPle like TOm jOnes have been. Most to do cOnrad black
.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 05:36 PM

My comment was "why not more women, when convicted felons get peerage". If you cant "get it" kindly get over it and move on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,Hi lo
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 06:35 PM

Black was made a lord. That has nothIng to do with my origInal question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 06:48 PM

Whatever;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Dec 14 - 05:01 AM


My original questiOn had to dO with why sOme very influential women in popular music,such as Kate bush, petula Clarke and Annie LennO x have not been hp lured when peoPle like TOm jOnes have been. Most to do cOnrad black

No, you first question was why so many men & so few women (with Kate Bush, Pet Clarke & Annie Lennox mentioned as examples). Or at least, that's the way I read it.

Can you clarify what question it is that you are looking for an answer to?
If it's just why Kate, Pet & Annie haven't been honoured, then maybe no-one has put their names forward.

As for The incomparable Kate Bush, perhaps the most innovative and influential artist of the last 30 years. She got a CBE in 2013
Tom Jones got his OBE in 1999 & his knighthood in 2006. His start in show business was earlier than that of Kate Bush, and there is normally a gap after receiving one of the lower ranking orders before a person will be considered afresh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: Musket
Date: 12 Dec 14 - 06:19 AM

Pantomime season is upon us.

More dames than you can wave a shitty stick at.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 12 Dec 14 - 10:12 AM

Did u know there isn't an anagram for "shitty Stick"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Are The Dames
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 12 Dec 14 - 10:59 AM

I must apologise for my previous post. I was on my Ipod and my fingers are a wee bit too big.
All I meant to ask originally was why do so many more men pop stars get knighthood than women get damehoods.


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Mudcat time: 17 July 1:29 PM EDT

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