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BS: Caliphate

Richard Bridge 02 Jul 14 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,# 02 Jul 14 - 04:22 PM
Ed T 02 Jul 14 - 04:04 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Jul 14 - 03:44 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Jul 14 - 02:58 PM
Ed T 02 Jul 14 - 02:31 PM
akenaton 02 Jul 14 - 02:17 PM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jul 14 - 01:59 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Jul 14 - 01:15 PM
Greg F. 02 Jul 14 - 01:11 PM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jul 14 - 12:51 PM
Stu 02 Jul 14 - 12:46 PM
Musket 02 Jul 14 - 12:16 PM
Jim Carroll 02 Jul 14 - 12:13 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Jul 14 - 11:56 AM
Stu 02 Jul 14 - 11:16 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jul 14 - 10:52 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jul 14 - 10:33 AM
Musket 02 Jul 14 - 10:00 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jul 14 - 09:49 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jul 14 - 09:42 AM
Teribus 02 Jul 14 - 08:21 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Jul 14 - 08:06 AM
Ed T 02 Jul 14 - 07:43 AM
Musket 02 Jul 14 - 07:39 AM
Ed T 02 Jul 14 - 07:06 AM
Stu 02 Jul 14 - 06:45 AM
Musket 02 Jul 14 - 05:22 AM
Richard Bridge 02 Jul 14 - 05:04 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Jul 14 - 05:02 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Jul 14 - 02:37 AM
Mrrzy 02 Jul 14 - 02:03 AM
Teribus 02 Jul 14 - 01:27 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 01 Jul 14 - 07:31 PM
Ed T 01 Jul 14 - 06:33 PM
Mrrzy 01 Jul 14 - 03:41 PM
akenaton 01 Jul 14 - 03:26 PM
Stu 01 Jul 14 - 01:29 PM
akenaton 01 Jul 14 - 01:02 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Jul 14 - 12:53 PM
Greg F. 01 Jul 14 - 10:25 AM
GUEST,# 01 Jul 14 - 10:14 AM
GUEST,# 01 Jul 14 - 09:51 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Jul 14 - 09:47 AM
Teribus 01 Jul 14 - 09:32 AM
Teribus 01 Jul 14 - 08:39 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Jul 14 - 08:18 AM
Ed T 01 Jul 14 - 07:42 AM
Stu 01 Jul 14 - 07:34 AM
Musket 01 Jul 14 - 07:28 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:01 PM

Thank you Guest#. Interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,#
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:22 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/03/opinion/the-caliphate-fantasy.html

That's an interesting and informative article from the Opinion page of the NYT.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 04:04 PM

An interesting article on Iraq from 2007. It indicates this countries borders are artificially pulled together from theboutside, are loosely held together by strong-arm leaders and only after its citizens can work out its own boundaries, reflecting ethnic and religious differences .

Cause of Iraq's chaos: bad borders 


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 03:44 PM

Abu Bakr is leading a group of Islamic hardliners and jihadists with a small group of Sunni extremists who wish to return to a position of power.
Using weaponry from the Iraq invasion and heavy armaments abandoned by poorly led Iraqi troops, the group ISIS has occupied an area stretching from Syria across Iraq and called on all Muslims to support its goal of an independent Islamic state in what is now a large part of Iraq and Syria.

Moderates of all Islamic sects want no part of this move toward a hardline Islamic state.

Iran is providing its brother Shias in Iraq with ground fighter planes and other armaments, and the government of Syria also is providing some help, including air strikes.

ISIS may have some support from Sunnis, but it is too hardline for the support to last.

Israel has announced support for an independent Kurdish state.

Iraq, with a Shia government that seems to not want help from Sunnis in Iraq nor the Kurds, seems too weak to do much, unless the U. S. makes the grievous mistake of doing more than providing advisors and some air strikes.

The map may eventually become more realistic, with independent Kurdish, Sunni and Shia states, the last closely allied with Iran.

The development of the situation, and its resolution, however temporary, will be interesting to watch, but "hands off," with the possible exception of air strikes against "caliphate" leaders, seems the best option at present.

Whether Israel will provide more than just verbal support to the Kurds also could have an important effect on the future of the region.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:58 PM

"Jim, I was just quoting back to Don his question that I was answering."
Fine - you said you believed it - what's the problem?
You are one of these nasty little bar-steward who responds to criticism of Israel as "Antisemitism", and, when you invent statements by Muslim "experts" (as in your "implant" belief, those who question those statements become "racists".
Yet you make sweeping derogatory statements about Muslims, you plead a special case for yourself.
You seem to occupy a world where you feel you can manipulate where others make their contributions, and where you can misrepresent the statements of others whenever it suits you to do so.
Who the hell do you thing you are, with your "infallibility" and your "I win, you lose"?
Your good fairy may think you are a good debater (maybe he should have gone to oxford - I believe they have a good debating society there) - I think you are an arrogant little know-nothing with a tendency towards religious mania.
Behave like an adult on these discussions or go and play in the garden
At least Ake doesn't try to pretend he isn't a homophobic racist - take a lesson from a season out-of-the closeter - then you'll be a man my son (sort of)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:31 PM

""Time I think to repeat my post/prophesy of 28/7 which was written before the Caliphate was announced.""


""the best guesser is the best prophet."" Marcus Tullius Cicero)


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:17 PM

Stu...I put the word liberal in inverted commas when I refer to fascists masquerading as liberals.
There are a fine selection of them hard at work on this forum, attempting to silence anyone who does not agree with every minute detail of their ideology.
I favour a liberal society, but not at any cost, when social experiments are seen not to be in the interests of society people must be allowed to speak against them without being called bigots, racists, or homophobes.    That is Fascism at work.

Politically I am of the left, always have been, but I look at issues not from a politically ideological position but look at each issue objectively and work out what I think to be in the long term interests of society.

The unregulated immigration we have seen for the last decade was always going to cause social problems, as we do not have the infrastructure to cope with huge numbers of immigrants....nothing to do with race or colour, but anyone speaking against immigration a few years ago was immediately attacked by "liberals", for holding "bigoted" or "racist" views.
The political climate has changed dramatically recently as the truth gently sinks in (Thanks mainly to Mr Farage and his party), but still the "liberal" stormtroopers chant their mantra......"Equality" "democracy" "freedom"! In reality we have none of these things and most intelligent people know that our political system is corrupt, our economic system based on greed and the antithesis of equality.

In place of real equality, democracy and freedom, we have homosexual "marriage" and multiculturalism....what a joke!

You will note that I also put homosexual "marriage" in inverted commas, as it bears little resemblance to traditional marriage, is unwanted by most homosexuals, is rarely monogamous and serves no purpose in society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 01:59 PM

Jim, I was just quoting back to Don his question that I was answering.
That is why it was in quotes.
I did not put in the word "Muslim" at all.
I used quotes to show that the words were not mine.
I had already told Don,

"Don, on 24th January I said about this issue "It is nothing to do with Islam. "
I do not "see the problem as a Muslim one,"
I have always said specifically that it is not."

My position was emphatically NOT Islamophobic, and you had to go back over three years to find that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 01:15 PM

"no part in the offending.
Evidence AGAINST Islamophobia, which is all you will find."
And I pointed out that 'Muslim' referes to the religion - you specified that it was not just Pakistanis but Pakistani "Muslims" - if it had nothing to do with their religion why not just Pakistanis?
"None of you have provided any example of bigotry or Islamophobia."
Doesn't claiming all male Pakistani Muslims are implanted to make them want to shag underage girls count as Islamophobia then - just like it doesn't count as being racist?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 01:11 PM

Everyone is entitled to a POV

Not so, FW Keith - everyone is entitled to an INFORMED point of view. This leaves you & several other bloviators out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:51 PM

We= Teribus and me.

Jim, re that post from over 3 years ago you are so obsessed with, remember I stated unequivocally and repeatedly that religion played no part in the offending.
Evidence AGAINST Islamophobia, which is all you will find.

Richard, now you accuse me of being Right Wing.
I am not.
I am centre/Right which is the majority position in England.
I used to vote Labour in the Blair days.
IFA is very interesting, but how relevant to this?

Musket,
What is delicious is when you keep bringing up your confusion regarding restrictions in military hardware , comboned with confusing UN resolutions and sanctions. Each time you embarrass yourself, it just seems even funnier.

There are no EU restrictions on military hardware to Israel.
Israel is an associate member state, not at all regarded as a "rogue state" as you also stated.

You have much to be embarrassed about.
I do not.

None of you have provided any example of bigotry or Islamophobia.
You can't because there are none.
It is entirely made up.
None of you has challenged anything we actually have said.
You can't.
That is why you revert to false accusations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:46 PM

"I'd have to turn right and sit with the proletariate."

Which is fine by us. You bourgeois might be minted but in my experience have no taste and your after shave and perfume smells like fly spray or bog cleaner. Best get upstairs to the luxury section. This is the problem: money but zero class. It's an unedifying spectacle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:16 PM

"We"

What is delicious is when you keep bringing up your confusion regarding restrictions in military hardware , comboned with confusing UN resolutions and sanctions. Each time you embarrass yourself, it just seems even funnier.

I take it the rest of "we" are happy to share your confusion and ridiculous notion?

I enjoy knowing nothing. My years of knowing nothing allows me to turn left when I get on a plane. Just think, if I knew anything, I'd have to turn right and sit with the proletariate.

(Sorry. Bridge has agreed with two of my posts. I have to make amends.).


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 12:13 PM

"Will you produce an example?"
Doesn't claiming all male Pakistani Muslims are implanted to make them want to shag underage girls count as Islamophobia then - just like it doesn't count as being racist?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:56 AM

Maybe, oh right wing and militaristic idealogues, you should talk to some Yoruba people about Boko Haram and Islam. Do you not realise that IFA is one of the fastest growing belief systems?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 11:16 AM

". . . but more likely all you leftie muppets have completely misunderstood everything."

It is hard to live up to the grasp of nuance and detail you neocons have. For instance:

"All you can do is make up shit."

Ah right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 10:52 AM

Musket, you accused us of bigotry and Islamophobia when we have never expressed either.
Will you produce an example?
Of course not, because you can't!

What we actually say goes unchallenged, because you can't do that either.

You are hopeless.
You are incapable of debating because you know so little about anything except, possibly, NHS administration.
All you can do is make up shit.

(Like those EU restrictions against Israel)


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 10:33 AM

"ISIS The Bob Dylon Magazine?"
Dylan surely - or has Mr Z changed his relgion - or maybe become a colourist?
"You cannot challenge anything we say"
'Course we can't - you've already declared your infallibility on this matter, and who are we mere mortals....?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 10:00 AM

This from Keith over the last couple of posts;

"You cannot challenge anything we say"

Followed by

"but more likely all you leftie muppets have completely misunderstood everything"

Oh, I don't know Keith. I understand alright...

I especially love the bit about not being able to challenge anything "we" say. There's no need to. There's nothing of value to get excited over. If you said anything on an intellectual level, I might consider it but your right wing ranting, raving and foaming at the mouth drivel invites nothing other than ridicule.

I don't make up bollocks. I read yours and have a good chuckle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 09:49 AM

Yes, we know that that idiot is saying that sort of thing.

So, he says such things because he is an idiot!
By your understanding of the issue, only an idiot would say such things in his position.
Also the leader of Boko Haram.

Perhaps they are idiots, but more likely all you leftie muppets have completely misunderstood everything.

Their followers, in their tens of thousands, all think they are sane, rational and right.
Perhaps they are all idiots.
Or perhaps, you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 09:42 AM

nor does it justify a generalisation implying that all Muslims are fundamentalist idealogues one way or another.

Where do you see such shit Richard?
No-one on here implies anything like that!

But if you look at everything Keith, Bobad, Teribus and a few others write, Islamaphobia is the driving force behind their comments.
Has to be. Reason isn't getting a look in, so all you are left with is awful bigotry

More completely made up bollocks.
There has been none of either.
You can not challenge anything we say, say you make up bollocks and challenge that!
Hopeless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 08:21 AM

"Yeah Teribus. I make things up and give money to ISIS." - Musket

Well I knew you made things up, as you've been caught out doing that time and time again, but I didn't realise that you gave money to ISIS - Which one?

Islamic State of Iraq and Syria? (Very foolish of you if you do)
Institute for Science and International Security?
Integrated Student Information System?
Innovative Solutions In Space?
Institute for Software Integrated Systems?
ISIS The Bob Dylon Magazine?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 08:06 AM

I like the facebook meme suggesting that Tony B Liar thinks he should be the Caliph...

Oh, I also like the last couple or so of Musket's posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 07:43 AM

""Liberal: a power worshipper without power.""
― George Orwell

Sound likd anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 07:39 AM

He means people who fought for equal rights for women, gays and ethnic minorities. He calls equality a liberal plot.

Simple, clear and creepy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 07:06 AM

Two options on what is meant: from the Urban Dictionary, (may be better than some folks sketchy definition of a liberal).

:))

""Liberal -
Somehow, it has turned into an insult, like the word conservative. Usually used as such by people who have never taken a political science class and don't know what the word means.

If used in a non-political sense, "liberal" simply means "a lot."I'd like a large popcorn with a liberal amount of butter, please.""


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 06:45 AM

"An odd (and, IMO skewed ) assessment."

Ake constantly misuses the word 'liberals' for some reason known only to him. In fact, no-one is sure exactly who he means in his definition of 'liberals', although I suspect it's meant as a pejorative term to describe people on the left of politics, whatever that actually means these days.

The neocons have played a part in this fuckup, as the weapons they supplied to whatever side they support these days are now in the hands of the most extreme bunch. It's worth remembering they are only interested in protecting or promoting their vested interests so they can continue to make money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:22 AM

But if you look at everything Keith, Bobad, Teribus and a few others write, Islamaphobia is the driving force behind their comments.

Has to be. Reason isn't getting a look in, so all you are left with is awful bigotry. Why do you think Akenaton has weighed in? He is comfortable and amongst friends for once.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:04 AM

Yes, we know that that idiot is saying that sort of thing. That he does so does not justify genocide nor does it justify a generalisation implying that all Muslims are fundamentalist idealogues one way or another.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 05:02 AM

It is not about importing religion - it never has been importing religion and it never will be about importing religion - as you and your have claimed.
It is no more a religious war any more than The British Empire was a crusade to import Christianity, or the setting up of Northern Ireland was about setting up a religious state - it is about using religion as an excuse for warfare - as old as history.
Yu bloody born-again Christians really get up my nose - you are as bad as the worst fanatics
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:37 AM

Jim, do you still say this is not about religion?

ISIS leader quoted by BBC yesterday.

"Rush O Muslims to your state. Yes, it is your state. Rush, because Syria is not for the Syrians, and Iraq is not for the Iraqis," al-Baghdadi said in a new audio message on Tuesday.

"O Muslims everywhere, whoever is capable of performing hijrah (emigration) to the Islamic State, then let him do so, because hijrah to the land of Islam is obligatory," he added.

He also called on jihadist fighters to escalate fighting during the holy month of Ramadan, which began on Sunday.

"There is no deed in this virtuous month or in any other month better than jihad in the path of Allah, so take advantage of this opportunity and walk the path of you righteous predecessors," he said in the 19-minute audio message.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 02:03 AM

So, can they just DO that? (trying to get back to the thread...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Jul 14 - 01:27 AM

Peter please tell me, a simple "armchair squaddie", what are any of the fundamentalist, radical, Islamic terrorist groups prepared to reconcile?

Tell me, given their track record so far, what form of dialogue you are likely to have with them.

Tell me what are they prepared to negotiate.

Musket came out with this - 01 Jul 14 - 02:55 AM

"There's a disused camp in Poland and blueprints for hermetically sealed sheds if you'd rather gather "them" all there instead Teribus."

Musket, as Keith points out, loves to just make things up, then attribute those things to whoever he is arguing with (He does just argue, I have never known him to actually discuss anything or debate any point) then take them to task over something that they have never stated - It must make him feel very "good" - He also loves to compare apples to oranges.

Now then Musket, who was it that arrested, rounded up and herded all those heavily armed foreign Jihadi fighters together and "transported" them to that tiny strip of land that stretches from Aleppo in Syria to Baqubah and Diyala Province in Iraq? Or did they go there of their own free will intent on taking land by force and killing all who stood in their way? Crucifying, beheading and executing unarmed civilians who were not of their brand of their faith and those fighting alongside them deemed by them not to be devout enough.

Tell me Musket what threats have been made by this group? Or have they made none? What threats were made by those on their way to that disused camp you drew our attention to? How heavily were they armed? I most certainly know the threats made, long in advance, long before the event by the man who directed that that camp be constructed. He wanted to establish his own sort of "Caliphate" too didn't he? And you and your like were the ones who ignored the warnings issued by that man and the warnings of the "armchair squaddies" of the day and as a result over 72 million people died.

ISIS/ISIL put quite simply are dangerous, deal with them now, and deal with them harshly, while that is easy to do so - it may save millions of lives further down the road. Going back to your disused camp Musket remind us again how it came to become "disused"? What price was paid, what price had to be paid once you and your like discovered that the "armchair squaddies" had been right all along?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:31 PM

"...it will hopefully finally be understood that reconciliation, dialogue and negotiation are the 'weapons'...." Alas, Eliza, not the kind of language an armchair squaddie like Teribus is likely to understand. I assume he fires his peashooter here because he's not allowed to play with guns any more. I suppose it gives him a buzz.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 06:33 PM

""Western "liberal" idiocy""

An odd (and, IMO skewed ) assessment. The western conservatives pushed as much, or, even morde than the liberals to change and maintain sympathetic governments, where interests warrant.

It seems merely a red herring anyway. The main interest is power and economics, not installing any type of legitimate government, democracy or not While the excuse of establishing some type of democracy is often used, the actual goal is to install and keep a regime in power that sympathic to economic andipower nterest in control.

The Russians have been as guilty as anyone for doing the same in the past, but have had less resources in recent years, focusing more on resolving their own affairs. Maybe they are now on the way to be back on track.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:41 PM

Oh come on, you guys. I started the thread because the CALIPHATE was claiming jurisdiction over all moslems, not because anybody here thinks anything at all about "all" anybody. Y'all are getting sidelined into pettiness about how people are phrasing things. Not that I blame Eliza for getting upset at the casual suggestion that they be treated as they would like to treat others, which is a bad idea whether your spouse is moslem, atheist, or a moon-howling heathen. Or you are. The upset should be civilized versus barbarian, not Don't say that about me and mine. Sorry, Eliza.
But that has nothing to do with the question, which still is, can they, the Caliphate, just *do* that? Apparently the answer is Yes, if they are allowed to?   Kind of like all Jews can consider themselves Israeli if they want to, which I believe they can?
Note that I personally do not consider that Israel or any nation on the planet has a right to exist because some ancient myth says they should... however I do accept the reality that Israel DOES exist. Am I going to have to so the same for the Caliphate?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 03:26 PM

That is an example of the ideological idiocy which I mentioned previously.

When are you going to learn "dear old Ian", that "personal abuse does not an argument make."   (OLD ED's book of proverbs and quotations"
(153rd edition)


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 01:29 PM

"Western "democracy" is NOT exportable"

There is no western democracy to export. What governments like the US and UK are doing is attempting to open new markets and secure new resources; political ideology fails to even consider addressing the long-term, big questions we face as a species and instead continues to involve itself in the petty squabbles of countries we've continually interfered with over the centuries.

There is a massive misunderstanding about the importance of Al-Sham and the wider Levant outside the middle east to it's people. This isn't some recent agitation that a few westerners can clear up by bombing the shit out of innocent people with planes and cruise missiles; this is an area with a complex history that goes back millennia. Modern civilisation was born here.

Memories are long here, and it's entirely possible here in the west we've become so short-termist we can't even comprehend how ancient history can still influence modern political and national disputes.

To paint this as simply one terrorist group charging into an area and imposing a brutal form of Sharia law simply shows how far people are from having the slightest clue what is going on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 01:02 PM

Time I think to repeat my post/prophesy of 28/7 which was written before the Caliphate was announced.
Teribus is quite correct, these people(Islamist radicals0, are a grave danger to human life everywhere and should be removed from the equation....First things first, this situation has been brought about by Western "liberal" idiocy and a mistaken belief that "democracy" can be instigated in our interests in Muslim countries.
akenaton......28/7/14.


Although we are at separate ends of the UK political spectrum, I agree 100% with Keith's no nonsense evaluation of the situation in Syria.
The Islamists hate "liberal" western values, even more than they hate other branches of their religion and before long all will be absorbed into an Islamic Caliphate and moderate voices will be silenced.

This is a grave danger and only ideological fools like a few on these pages would consider support of such action.
These people believe all who do not support Islam should be exterminated.
All the Eastern dictators, from Saddam through Gaddafi to Assad, warned us of the danger from Islamist terror, but we preferred to believe that we could set up exploitable Western style democracies in these countries......The result has been chaos and terror.
Our politicians made serious errors in Middle Eastern policy and people like Blair, Hague and Cameron should be called to account.

In Russia, Putin realised the danger of Islamic terrorism having experience of fighting jihadists in Chechnya and Afghanistan, where Russia's defeat was assisted by the West.

Western "democracy" is NOT exportable.....our participation should be against all terrorism and not as political expediency.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 12:53 PM

Everyone is entitled to a POV and I enjoy discussing and debating them.

Richard made a statement about me personally but refused to explain what he meant or why he said it.
"Well, that's flushed out the truth about KtheA and JerryTerry"


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:25 AM

Keith, you should know better by now.

Now, THAT'S funny!


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 10:14 AM

Keith, you should know better by now. Stop trying to provoke a fight. Richard is equally entitled to his opinion/POV. You may or may not like it, but he's a reasonable and often outspoken man. That may grind a few nuts, but so what? Your running fight with Musket carries over to any thread you both post on and it's always one or other of you saying "But he hit me back first." Give it a fuckin' rest, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:51 AM

All anyone has to do is look at the proposed map of the so-called 'caliphate' to see that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is just a bit unhinged. He needs to be taken out of the picture asap. ISIS has murdered thousands of Muslims. They propose to murder millions eventually . . . hell, look at the damned map, because millions who live in the countries he proposes to have join his 'caliphate' will die as a result of ISIS imperialism. The sooner he's out of the picture--by whatever means necessary--the better. It is at present a Muslim problem. If he is not stopped it will not remain a Muslim problem, and there there be dragons.

Good to see you once again, Teribus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:47 AM

Dear old Musket.
He knows he disagrees but can not actually challenge anything we say, so he makes up things we have not said and attacks that instead.

You too Richard.
Can you challenge anything actually said?
Why did you decline to answer what "truth" had been "flushed out" about us from what we had posted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 09:32 AM

"Yet in the post above it, he asserts that the call for a Caliphate extends to ALL Muslims.

Presumably, Muslims don't have your intelligence or judgement then? Not even my newsagent it seems. Or many of my friends for that matter."


Ehmmmm NO Musket the chap asserting that his rule and that of his self declared Caliphate extends to all Muslims is one Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 08:39 AM

By the way Richard who is condemning all Muslims?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 08:18 AM

From Ed's link.

"Is the idea of a caliphate unique to ISIS?

No.

Nearly all Sunni political Islamist movements dream of the eventual resurrection of the caliphate, most by political means, though jihadi groups call for establishing it by violence.

It has been the ultimate ambition of al-Qaeda, but while its late leader Osama bin Laden could once claim leadership of the international jihadi movement, he never went so far as to declare himself caliph."


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:42 AM

what is a celiphate 


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:34 AM

"It should be handy having them all gather inside their Caliphate - any trouble - declare it the largest live firing range in the world."

Blimey. Did you actually think about this shit before you typed it, or did you just crap it directly into your computer?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 01 Jul 14 - 07:28 AM

Teribus feels he would have the common sense to ignore calls from a Christian pastor to hate all Muslims, (unlike Robinson, first minister of Northern Ireland for example.)

Yet in the post above it, he asserts that the call for a Caliphate extends to ALL Muslims.

Presumably, Muslims don't have your intelligence or judgement then? Not even my newsagent it seems. Or many of my friends for that matter.

Bugger. I was getting on with them just fine too.

zzzzzz

Bridge is, and it pains me to say this, right. Flushing now and then stops the turds from floating and causing an unpleasant odour.


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