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BS: Caliphate

MGM·Lion 11 Aug 14 - 01:43 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 14 - 05:45 PM
MGM·Lion 10 Aug 14 - 04:54 PM
Greg F. 10 Aug 14 - 03:26 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 14 - 03:00 PM
pdq 10 Aug 14 - 02:11 PM
MGM·Lion 10 Aug 14 - 02:07 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 14 - 01:46 PM
bobad 10 Aug 14 - 01:15 PM
bobad 10 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM
Greg F. 10 Aug 14 - 12:15 PM
akenaton 10 Aug 14 - 12:03 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 14 - 08:23 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 14 - 08:13 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Aug 14 - 07:55 AM
bobad 10 Aug 14 - 07:48 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 14 - 04:48 AM
Musket 10 Aug 14 - 04:35 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Aug 14 - 04:00 AM
Greg F. 09 Aug 14 - 01:18 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 09 Aug 14 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,William of Oakham 09 Aug 14 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,# 09 Aug 14 - 12:14 PM
akenaton 09 Aug 14 - 11:01 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Aug 14 - 07:16 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Aug 14 - 05:52 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Aug 14 - 04:44 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Aug 14 - 04:42 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Aug 14 - 04:33 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Aug 14 - 03:49 AM
Greg F. 08 Aug 14 - 06:21 PM
MGM·Lion 08 Aug 14 - 05:32 PM
MGM·Lion 08 Aug 14 - 05:27 PM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Aug 14 - 05:18 PM
Greg F. 08 Aug 14 - 04:49 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Aug 14 - 03:38 PM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Aug 14 - 03:13 PM
beardedbruce 08 Aug 14 - 02:08 PM
beardedbruce 08 Aug 14 - 01:53 PM
Donuel 08 Aug 14 - 01:49 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 14 - 12:25 PM
MGM·Lion 08 Aug 14 - 11:49 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Aug 14 - 10:54 AM
beardedbruce 08 Aug 14 - 10:24 AM
beardedbruce 08 Aug 14 - 10:21 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Aug 14 - 10:15 AM
beardedbruce 08 Aug 14 - 10:11 AM
beardedbruce 08 Aug 14 - 10:07 AM
beardedbruce 08 Aug 14 - 10:03 AM
Musket 08 Aug 14 - 10:03 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Aug 14 - 01:43 AM

Yes, Jim. I am not denying, or even objecting to, the way the thread has drifted. Just pointing out that it has as a consequence two strands, the original & the drift. The paste you chose to head that post with belonged to the first; the main contents of the post to the second. So your claiming any sort of equivalence between the two elements was tendentious, provocative, & intentionally misleading: a blatant piece of inapplicable "wotaboutery"; implying that the violent stoning to death of a woman for what would not even be a legal offence in other parts of the world than that where these sort of objectionable regimes obtain is somehow equivalent to the use of weapons in a war situation which may be disproportionately deployed. I still fail to see any sort of equivalence of the sort you claim; and I think you are foolish to imply that any even exists.

I don't know whether you will get the point of my drawing attention to this incongruity. But I hope there are others who will.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 05:45 PM

"But, Jim; this is not primarily an Israel v Palestinians thread"
We've developed a situation where certain people use these threads however they choose util they get bogged down, then squeal "thread-drift".
So far on this thread Gaza has been mentioned 124 times, Palestine 245 times and Israel 485 times - suddenly its a problem...
Am I missing something here?
I have given my reasons.... and so to bed (if the conspiracy thriller's crap, that is!)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 04:54 PM

But, Jim; this is not primarily an Israel v Palestinians thread -- we have two of those running already -- but one about the Caliphate as a project. Surely the point of the stoned-to-death story was, that was what might be expected, if the Caliphate as proposed really took a hold, to happen over the whole region. Can't see it as any sort of comparable case to the enormities your pastes dealt with. So, I continue to think, more confusing than enlightening.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 03:26 PM

So says LeMay, PeeDee- the facts say otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 03:00 PM

2Much exercised as to why you have headed an animadversion against the use of certain disagreeable forms of armament with the opening sentence of the report reproduced above about the woman stoned to death for alleged adultery. I cannot get my head around any possible connection."
The poster has made a point for a long time now of putting up quote after quot showing that Muslims are baddies and Jews and Christians are all goodies - my religions are better than yours - it seems to have become his raison d'etre - a can't actually remember him ever making any other kind.   
As he is one of the foremost in defending Israeli atrocities using just this technique, I assumed this posting had the same purpose and was pointing our that it cuts both ways.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: pdq
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 02:11 PM

about the quote from above and its attribution...


        General CURTIS E. LEMAY, Mission with LeMay: My Story, p. 565 (1965).

In an interview two years after the publication of this book, General LeMay said, "I never said we should bomb them back to the Stone Age. I said we had the capability to do it. I want to save lives on both sides."          — The Washington Post, October 4, 1968, p. A8.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 02:07 PM

Jim:

Re your post of 0823 am. Much exercised as to why you have headed an animadversion against the use of certain disagreeable forms of armament with the opening sentence of the report reproduced above about the woman stoned to death for alleged adultery. I cannot get my head around any possible connection. Some sort of elucidation would be welcome.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 01:46 PM

"Hague and Cameron should be indicted for grievous crimes against reason."
You mean Gadaffi should have been left where he was, the West should have continued to continue to trade with him until he snuffed it then his son, who was being groomed by the west, would be able to fill daddy's shoes?
If you know anything about politics you know you can't leave things as they are in these situations - you assist and encourage in the hope that the situation improves - unfortunately, the history of all these countries has been that they have been used by colonials until they are no use, then have been discarded as being of no value anymore.
A follow-up to the civil war might have helped, but it didn't happen - doesn't mean that Gadaffi was worse or better, just the The Arab Spring offered a chance for improvement
What do you suggest is done about Syria, let Assad continue his slaughtering, wait till the dust settles and let him get his torture chambers up and running again, then allow him to return to the fold as the 'valued British Trading partner he and his predecessors always were?
Given what was happening in Homs, the responsibility was with the United Nations to step in, failing, the Western Democracies should have been there st stop the slaughter - the didn't, we blew it and the extremists took over - then spread, crating a world-wide problem.
Like all these situations, you've got to win hearts and minds as well as wars - in Libya we helped do one but not the other - result chaos.
In Syria, we did neither - result utter disaster.
Until the West starts recognising these as potential friends and trading partners instead of petrol pumps this will continue to happen.
Might as well join up with Israel and do what General Westmorland proposed for Vietnam - "bomb them back into the Stoneage".
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 01:15 PM

Oh and Greg, your attempts at establishing moral equivalences are becoming more and more pathetic....I suggest you give it a rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM

"And that, Boo, differs from electrocution, lethal injection, hanging & etc how exactly?"

And who does that for alleged adultery exactly?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 12:15 PM

Stoning to death for the alleged adulteress.

And that, Boo, differs from electrocution, lethal injection, hanging & etc how exactly? You can answer in the capital punishment thread if you prefer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 12:03 PM

Jim, surely even you can see that what happened in Libya was an absolute disaster.
Hague and Cameron should be indicted for grievous crimes against reason.

The removal from power and murder of Gadaffi was one of the biggest foreign policy blunders ever made.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 08:23 AM

"BEIRUT (AP) — A cleric read the verdict before the truck came and dumped a large pile of stones near the municipal garden"

Description of a hospital bombed by Israelis
Israel Bombs Gaza's Only Rehab Hospital: Staff Forced to Evacuate Paralyzed Patients After Shelling
DR. BASMAN ALASHI: Last night, just before 9:00, they sent us a warning over the phone that "We will bomb the hospital, so you need to evacuate." And we've been receiving these calls for the last 11 days, so we did not take that call, that issue and matter seriously, because of repeated calls from the Israeli forces that "We will bomb you, we will bomb you," but they haven't done anything. And we insisted that we cannot leave the hospital. Our patients are, all of them, paralyzed, unable—they're unconscious. They're unable to move, so we need to stay in this hospital. And this is the only rehabilitation hospital in Gaza and in the West Bank.
But just few minutes after the call, shells start falling down on the hospital—the fourth floor, third floor, second floor. Smoke, fire, dust all over. We lost electricity. Many of our nurses, they lost control of themselves. They were unable to stand up on their feet. They left the hospital. Patients were left alone, unknown what will happen to them. I was able to call many ambulances around the area, plus the fire department, and we were able to move all of them. Some of them needed an oxygen, so we have to wait until 11:00 until we receive that oxygen. So, the few patients that we have, luckily, nobody got hurt. Only burning building, smoke inside, dust, ceiling falling, wall broke, electricity cutoff, water is leaking everywhere. So, the hospital became [uninhabitable]. At that time, we said evacuation is much more healthier for the patients and for the nurses

EFFECTS OF WHITE PHOSPHORUS USED BY ISRAELIS
Hospitals across the Gaza Strip have reported increasing numbers of civilians with serious burns being admitted for emergency treatment, and the scale of injuries indicates that IOF are using these unidentified incinerating bombs to target civilians across the Gaza Strip. For example, on 10 January, 2009, residents of Khuza'a village, east of Khan Yunis, reported being attacked by IOF artillery shells which exploded into flames, dispersing shrapnel and dense white smoke that caused skin burns, suffocation, spasms and fainting. At least one hundred local civilians were injured by this IOF attack, including medical personnel who arrived at the scene. Civilians were subsequently admitted to hospitals in Khan Yunis, suffering from breathing difficulties and severe pains in their eyes.
VERMONTERS FOR PEACE IN PALESTINE
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 08:13 AM

"That sounds like invasion of Syria, which is what you specifically advocated at that time."
Where?
What I proposed is exactly what I said, which was what Cameron proposed which was what happened in Libya, which I gave as an example - piss off.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 07:55 AM

assist the Arab Spring protesters in the form of manpower

That sounds like invasion of Syria, which is what you specifically advocated at that time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 07:48 AM

BEIRUT (AP) — A cleric read the verdict before the truck came and dumped a large pile of stones near the municipal garden. Jihadi fighters then brought in the woman, clad head to toe in black, and put her in a small hole in the ground. When residents gathered, the fighters told them to carry out the sentence: Stoning to death for the alleged adulteress.

None in the crowd stepped forward, said a witness to the event in a northern Syrian city. So the jihadi fighters, mostly foreign extremists, did it themselves, pelting Faddah Ahmad with stones until her body was dragged away.

"Even when she was hit with stones she did not scream or move," said an opposition activist who said he witnessed the stoning near the football stadium and the Bajaa garden in the city of Raqqa, the main Syrian stronghold of the Islamic State group.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 04:48 AM

Incidentally, regarding my "warmongering" and "pacifism"
I have never advocated "invading" anywhere - not would I
My suggestion was that, as the U.N. had refused to act and in the light of the massacres that were taking place, Britain, the U.S. and other willing nations should assist the Arab Spring protesters in the form of manpower and arms to stop the bloodbath as they had done in Libya - that was my analogy from the start.
I made the point that, if Syria had had a marketable oil supply, Britain and America would have had no hesitation in doing so, as they had done in Iraq and in Libya.
If that was "warmongering" and "fascism" as you suggest, then in was something the British Government was guilty of - it was exactly what Cameron tried and failed to get through Parliament - it's always given me more than a little discomfort to realise that I became that close to agreeing with a Tory Prime Minister!
Had they done so, and backed their actions with a call for a world-wide embargo of Syrian Trade and seizure of property abroad, Assad might have been stopped in his tracks, the Syrian Arab Spring protests might have developed into something worthwhile and the opportunity for the extremists to take over would not have taken place, thus closing a window of opportunity on ISIS, who was enabled to cut its teeth in that war.
As a pacifist (sort of, as I describe myself), like others who share by outlook, I baulk at the idea of taking life and have been lucky to never been put in the position of having to choose to do so.
In the light of what was happening in Syria, it would have been insane to allow Assad to continue as he was allowed to and as you appear to be happy that he was, 'champion of the fight against terrorism' as you seem to regard him.
Once again, have a good day now!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 04:35 AM

Just to correct those speaking of the term "state religion" using the term wrongly in order to justify their bullshit.

Whilst many countries are influenced by a religion, there are two countries where religion is constituted in the legislature.

The United Kingdom
Iran


That's it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Aug 14 - 04:00 AM

"President Assad said right from the beginning that he was fighting fundamentalist extremists and nobody believed him."
So now you are advocating for a mass murderer - out of the closet finally and not before time - I see you are addressing him with the honour his rank bestows on him!
The Syrian conflict began as part of the Arab Spring conflict, Assad the thus (to give him his correct title) reacted with extreme violence, as a dictator with track record of torture and murder whould be expected to react.
The West did nothing allowing extremists to fill the gap left by their inaction.
To suggest that the protesters were, as you quote "President" Assad as claiming is as gut-heaving as it gets and puts into perfect context your support for selling him ammunition, riot control equipment and the wherewithal to manufacture chemical weapons.
It would have saves so much time if you had made your position clear from the beginning.
Another item for your C.V. - it will look wonderful next to your "cultural implant" theory.
Have a good day now, I'm sure I will now you've got that off your chest.
Jim Carrol


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 01:18 PM

Isis is a direct product of the West's inaction

No, its a result of the cack-handed U.S. foreign policy in Iraq and Iran (not to say the whole Middle East) most recently exemplified by George Dumbya Bush & his lap-dog Tony Blair.

By their bogus Iraq war they've created this situation, and all the hand-wringing in the world won't change that fact.

Not to say that this situation is their responsibility alone; this clusterfuck goes back before Reagan and Iran-Contra.

Its the chickens coming home to roost one more time, a.k.a. blowback.

The U.S. didn't learn dick from the Vietnam experience, & its deja vu all over again.

"We're fighting in a war we lost before the war began, its the U.S. marching in an Arab land" -    (with apologies to Phil Ochs)


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 12:59 PM

"Isis is a direct product of the West's inaction - they were able to step into the gap left and they used arm supplied by the west to fight Assad to do so.
This has enabled them to grow into a significant extremist force threatening numerous states." Jim Carroll

I would take your statement a further step. Isis is not the result of 'inaction" by the west. It is the result of purposeful action by the west to withdraw from the conflict, leaving the defense of the country to an immature government and an immature military. Also, either the west's intelligence services are pitiful in this modern world, or their accurate information was being deliberately ignored. I lean toward the latter scenario.

I use the word 'immature' in the sense of not being fully developed or prepared.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,William of Oakham
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 12:42 PM

It is a forlorn hope, but how much better the world would be were there no religion. Superstition based on the ramblings of ancient imbeciles and demagogues is used to justify the infliction of much of the suffering of mankind. It is past time we all grew up - Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Mormon and every variation thereof. I'm sure that the contributors to this thread could find a more productive way to pass the time.

"So they argue through the night, black is black and white is white
Walk away knowing they are right! "


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST,#
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 12:14 PM

ISIS is worse than a lice infection and should be handled the same way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 11:01 AM

Jim, you have finally, completely lost the plot.
"Isis is a direct product of the West's inaction - they were able to step into the gap left and they used arm supplied by the west to fight Assad to do so.
This has enabled them to grow into a significant extremist force threatening numerous states."

President Assad said right from the beginning that he was fighting fundamentalist extremists and nobody believed him. We supported his opponents.
Do you think the West's action in Iraq and Libya contributed to a "safer" world?
Billions wasted, hundreds of thousands killed and both countries are now suffering what amounts to genocidal civil war.

I warned many months ago of a Caliphate being set up, and it has come to pass.
The West is only to blame in that it is beginning to be controlled by "liberal" numbskulls with no idea who or what they are dealing with.    Mr T is correct when dealing with fundamentalist lunatics the only word that matters is survival.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 07:16 AM

Yes,pacifist Jim wanted another Western military intvasion in another Arab land.
It was not just me who thought that crazy!
You were on your own.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 05:52 AM

Hypocrisy Keith
Can I remind you that when some of us called for military intervention at the time when the people of Homs were being slaughtered by snipers who were probably trained using British sold ammunition - before the Arab Spring Protests ahd developed into a civil war, you referred to us as "war-mongerers and fascists" and told us the "we couldn't be expected to become involved in every dispute that happened on the planet".
Had the west become involved then none of this need never have happened.
Isis is a direct product of the West's inaction - they were able to step into the gap left and they used arm supplied by the west to fight Assad to do so.
This has enabled them to grow into a significant extremist force threatening numerous states.
At the time, you were the first to defend the sale of arms and equipment to Assad, even extending that support to providing him with equipment to continue his oppression.
You opposed any boycott of sales to Assed, or ven the confiscation by Britain of London property belonging to him and one of his henchmen.   
America's intervention might have been regarded as an attempt to make up for past mistakes, but the rider that it gives itself to protect "American interests" makes it nothing bot an act of cynical opportunism.
Talk about the past coming back to bite your bum - both Americas and yours, that is
Don't suppose you'll respond to any of this with anything more than more denials
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 04:44 AM

Human compassion Jim.
You and Greg will never understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 04:42 AM

"So you are against US protecting those helpless, desperate people?"
I have just said I am not - I am against the United States using the plight of those "suffering, desperate people" as a window of opportunity to protect its oil interests, as it has in the past and is now quite likely to do again as it has deliberately added that to its intentions.
You apparently are not - now there's a surprise!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 04:33 AM

So you are against US protecting those helpless, desperate people?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 14 - 03:49 AM

"Name one country under a State Religion that is a stable peaceful nation."
It is far easier to name dozens that aren't.
"Do you begrudge money spent to avert genocide?"
Nobody does - what we do worry about is that, in including "the interests of America" among its objectives, the U.S. has given itself a blank cheque 'to go where it has been before' and defend its own interests wherever it sees fit.
W.M.D all over again.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 06:21 PM

What should we infer from that Greg?

Infer whatever you like, Fuckwit. Never stopped you before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 05:32 PM

I should perhaps have written "principal political control". I don't think the presence of Bishops in the UK House of Lords would qualify; or even, these days, the influence of Catholicism in Italy or Spain or Ireland; tho that might have been so argued until fairly recently. In "caliphate"-style domains, OTOH...


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 05:27 PM

Bruce: Not entirely sure you have answered Donuel's question. I don't think that a state having a traditionally "established" church is quite what he will have meant by a "country under a State Religion"; by which I take him to mean one in which the religious authorities exercise political control: I am sure we can all think of examples, generally within that putative entity which gives its name to the thread. If that wasn't what he meant, it would certainly be what I meant if I used the formulation.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 05:18 PM

What should we infer from that Greg?
Do you begrudge money spent to avert genocide?
You would let those Arab people die, by violence or thirst?
What are you Greg?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 04:49 PM

Gee, I wonder what THAT'S gonna cost the U.S. taxpayers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 03:38 PM

News of Caliphate lost in all the ---- posted here.

The U. S. bombing ISIS to protect Erbil, and dropping food and supplies to Yazidis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 03:13 PM

Jim, I have never defended the use of any weapons being used against civilians, nor the use of any illegal weapons at all.

No Keith - you say this shit - I cut and paste exactly what you say for you to deny

So, where is it Jim?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 02:08 PM

Liechtenstein        Roman Catholic Church[7]

Malta        Roman Catholic Church

Greece        Greek Orthodox Church

Monaco        Roman Catholic Church

England        Church of England

Tuvalu        Church of Tuvalu


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 01:53 PM

Denmark (Church of Denmark)[18] Also the Church of the Faroe Islands is the state church of the Faroe Islands, a territory of Denmark.

Iceland (Church of Iceland)[19] (76.81% of population members at 1 January 2012) [20]

Norway (Church of Norway)[21][22][23]


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 01:49 PM

Name one country under a State Religion that is a stable peaceful nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 12:25 PM

"but it is bollocks."
Shit - you've just lost me a bet.
A couple of mates here have been observing all this, and they siad you'd deny it outright without evidence - I thought you'd attempt to talk your way out of it or blame somebody else - I'll be buying the pints all night.
YOU HAVE YET TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE STILL PUTTING UP ARGUMENTS ON BEHALF OF ISRAEL THAT THEY HAVEN'T EVEN PUT UP IN THEIR OWN DEFENCE
Jim Carroll
Incidentally, I notice that the U.S. has pledged itself to oppose Islamic groups who threaten the lives and safety of other minorities AND THE INTERESTS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
That's the American oil supply taken care of!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 11:49 AM

I could ask old Mather·the·Mouthie·titz to demonstrate where & how he thinks I have "twisted his words"; but really can't be arsed any further with the deceitful & evasive (& foulmouthed) little swine at present. Our exchange is there for anyone who wants to be bothered to read it. I rest my case entirely on our previous exchange. However, I might continue to read some of his fatuous posts [no predicting which], as it appears he preferred it when I didn't -- & so robbed him of the delight of explicitly expressing the desire that I might be "fucked".

Worrer Charmer, in't he just! So articulate and cultured...

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:54 AM

I have presented your having supported the use of this shit

Yes, you are good at that Jim, but it is bollocks.
What you can not do is produce a single quote of me doing it.
You claimed you could,
No Keith - you say this shit - I cut and paste exactly what you say for you to deny

So, where is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:24 AM

And you are a STU{PID liar, at that.

"The UN report to the Secretary General noted "Palestinians had claimed that between 400 and 500 people had been killed, fighters and civilians together. They {The Palestinians} had also claimed a number of summary executions and the transfer of corpses to an unknown place outside the city of Jenin. The number of Palestinian fatalities, on the basis of bodies recovered to date, in Jenin and the refugee camp in this military operation can be estimated at around 55 (27 of whom were combatants)."

The claim picked out in bold in the above passage was bollocks because:

"Amnesty International's report concluded "No matter whose figures one accepts, "there was no massacre." Amnesty's report specifically observed that "after the IDF temporarily withdrew from Jenin refugee camp on April 17, UNRWA set up teams to use the census lists to account for all the Palestinians (some 14,000) believed to be resident of the camp on April 3, 2002. WITHIN FIVE WEEKS ALL BUT ONE OF THE RESIDENTS WAS ACCOUNTED FOR."


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:21 AM

Jimmy,

You have been shown to be a liar by your posts AFTER being given UN report data that proves your claims to be false.


YOU ARE A LIAR, you anti-Semitic bastard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:15 AM

"YOUR lies area getting out of hand, boyo."
If that is true - and it certainly isn't, I have a lonfg way to go before I catch up to yours.
I posted the facts on Jenin in response to stupid claims about one form of propaganda being any more or less than any other form
I posted up the facts about Jenin as I understand them and I linked my statement.
Personally, I have no knowledge of the affair other than it was one of several attacks attack on a refugee camp by Isreal.
I notice that you, in all your honesty decline to comment on Sabra/Shatila and the buring of the evidence there.
Don't call me a liar you Antisemitic bastard
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:11 AM

Jimmy,

"the firing of rockets that (apparently) were worth slaughtering nearly 2000 people over."

THOSE ROCKETS have killed a significant number of the 2000 or so.

The majority of the rest were killed while launching this illegal anti-personnel rockets AT CIVILIANS-

Obviously, you and your fellow stooges APPROVE of launching anti-personnel rockets at civilians, in violation of the Geneva Conventions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:07 AM

Jimmy,

YOUR lies area getting out of hand, boyo.

"As I did not bring them up - no you can not.
"

YOU did not bring up massacres?

"YOU have talked about massacres- Can we say that YOUR bringing them up implies that YOU support them?"


So someone else keeps posting those lies about Jenin?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:03 AM

Jimmy boy,

"Flechettes are missiles deliberately designed to scatter dart-shaped, streamlined fragments into any human being who comes in their path - they have no function other than that - they are anti-personnel weapons
Fact"

TRUE


"They were used indiscriminately in built-up areas making their use a war-crime
Fact"

FALSE- NO indiscriminate use EXCEPT BY HAMAS has been claimed.


"This has been pointed out by independents observers, including the Israeli B'Tsalem
Fact"

FALSE- A SINGLE USE (6 shells, resulting in ONE WOUNDED WOMAN)


"Describing them as merely another form of shrapnel is to support their use - ie to support a war crime
Fact"

FALSE- But IF it were true, than YOUR claim as to Hamas rockets being so harmless is by YOUR definition supporting THAT war crime.


"Israel has just slaughtered around 2000 human beings in the name of 'defence' from these missiles "

FALSE- YOU are ignoring the FACT that a large number of those Palestinians civilians killed IN GAZA are being killed by HAMAS ROCKETS that misfire. I gave the numbers- your failure to comprehend factual information does not in any way impact it's validity.


160 dead children- Digging tunnels for Hamas
30 dead civilians - summarily executed by Hamas
600-1000 HAMAS antipersonnel warheads hitting Gaza - between 1 and 17 civilians killed for each warhead that was acknowledged by Hamas


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:03 AM

Twisting my words just reinforces the relevance of them, you silly old sod.

A gaggle of old biddies singing "Fight the good fight" is no better than the raising of a flag to a rational person.

Neither kill, both state that allegiance to their imaginary friend comes above allegiance to the law of the land.

Both potentially disturbing. Both irrelevant in reality. Only one seen as unacceptable.

Anyway, at least when you were pretending I didn't exist, you missed so many opportunities to give us a laugh.

As I said before,

Some say good old Michael
Some say fuck him


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