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BS: Caliphate

Steve Shaw 15 Aug 14 - 08:24 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Aug 14 - 08:20 AM
beardedbruce 15 Aug 14 - 08:14 AM
beardedbruce 15 Aug 14 - 08:05 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Aug 14 - 06:38 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Aug 14 - 06:27 AM
MGM·Lion 15 Aug 14 - 05:44 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Aug 14 - 04:52 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Aug 14 - 07:20 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Aug 14 - 07:19 PM
bobad 14 Aug 14 - 07:06 PM
bobad 14 Aug 14 - 07:00 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Aug 14 - 06:52 PM
bobad 14 Aug 14 - 06:25 PM
beardedbruce 14 Aug 14 - 02:49 PM
bobad 14 Aug 14 - 01:51 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Aug 14 - 11:38 AM
Musket 14 Aug 14 - 09:17 AM
beardedbruce 14 Aug 14 - 07:33 AM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Aug 14 - 04:42 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Aug 14 - 11:43 PM
bobad 13 Aug 14 - 09:25 PM
bobad 13 Aug 14 - 08:12 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Aug 14 - 06:12 PM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Aug 14 - 05:24 PM
Greg F. 13 Aug 14 - 05:04 PM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Aug 14 - 02:43 PM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Aug 14 - 02:29 PM
beardedbruce 13 Aug 14 - 01:52 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Aug 14 - 01:35 PM
bobad 13 Aug 14 - 01:19 PM
Greg F. 13 Aug 14 - 01:17 PM
bobad 13 Aug 14 - 01:03 PM
beardedbruce 13 Aug 14 - 12:23 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Aug 14 - 10:38 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Aug 14 - 10:35 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Aug 14 - 10:17 AM
bobad 13 Aug 14 - 09:46 AM
Musket 13 Aug 14 - 06:21 AM
Teribus 13 Aug 14 - 06:15 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Aug 14 - 06:06 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Aug 14 - 05:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Aug 14 - 05:17 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Aug 14 - 03:44 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Aug 14 - 03:09 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Aug 14 - 03:06 AM
Teribus 13 Aug 14 - 02:25 AM
Teribus 13 Aug 14 - 02:08 AM
Greg F. 12 Aug 14 - 01:28 PM
Keith A of Hertford 12 Aug 14 - 01:02 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:24 AM

Any more copy 'n' pastes to add, naturally without comment from you, prancing clown?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:20 AM

That last quote about ISIS taking women and girls as sex slaves was from the Guardian on Monday.

Yes Keith, and, just last week, the Guardian was rightly vilified for publishing a foul, lying, full-page ad bearing the name of Elie Wiesel. Gosh, nearly typed "weasel" there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:14 AM

Utah Muslim leaders condemn extremism as Iraqi fears mount
Religion » Islam requires moderation, compassion and tolerance, they say.

By Peggy Fletcher Stack | The Salt Lake Tribune

First Published Aug 14 2014 06:55 pm • Last Updated Aug 14 2014 09:37 pm

Islam is a compassionate and tolerant religion, Utah Muslim leaders say, so any group that terrorizes minorities, beheads children or kidnaps women while claiming to be Muslim would be violating tenets of the faith.

But that is what various news agencies have said Islamic State militants are doing in northern Iraq — attacking Christians and Yazidis (a Kurdish-speaking minority whose faith is linked to ancient Zoroastrianism), while driving thousands from their homes.

The Islamic State has been accused of attempting genocide against the area's religious minorities and committing untold atrocities in its attempt to take over the region.

"If they are persecuting minorities, religious or ethnic, then it is a bogus group and we have no sympathy for it," says Imam Shuaib Din, leader of Utah Islamic Center in Sandy. "If they are killing or allowing the suffering of people who don't agree with them, that goes against the common core of Islam."

The religion would not condone killing anyone, he says, especially for nonbelief.

Din stopped short of outright condemnation of the extremist group by name. He says he doesn't have enough "credible information" about the Islamic State to either critique or condemn it.

Imam Muhammed Mehtar, of the Khadeeja Islamic Center in West Valley City, was also circumspect in assessing the Islamic State's reported actions in Iraq.

Islam is "a moderate religion and a moderate group of people. Moderation is in everything we do," Mehtar says. "To do things that are extreme — whether in manner of hate or love — that is not in Islam."

Moderation, the imam reiterates, "represents our true values, our Muslimness."

Reports from the region around Kurdistan say that Islamic State militants have demanded that Christians and Yazidis either convert to Islam, pay a tax, leave or be killed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:05 AM

BEIRUT (Reuters) - The leader of Lebanese group Hezbollah described the radical Islamist movement that has seized territory in Iraq and Syria as a growing "monster" that could threaten Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other Gulf states.

Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, whose group has been helping Syria's President Bashar al-Assad fight a Sunni Islamist-dominated insurgency, said Islamic State could easily recruit in other areas where its hardline ideology exists.

"Wherever there are followers of the ideology there is ground for (Islamic State), and this exists in Jordan, in Saudi Arabia, in Kuwait, and the Gulf states," Nasrallah said in an interview with the Lebanese newspaper Al-Akhbar published on Friday.

Nasrallah, whose group is backed by Shi'ite Muslim power Iran, said Islamic State was encountering resistance in some parts of Iraq and Syria. But he added: "It appears that the capabilities, numbers and capacities available to (Islamic State) are vast and large. This is what is worrying everyone, and everyone should be worried."

Saudi Arabia, a Sunni Muslim monarchy that has been in a state of cold war with Shi'ite Iran and its allies, has shown growing signs of alarm about the spread of Islamic State. Last month, it deployed 30,000 soldiers at its border with Iraq.

Saudi Arabia has also been a major sponsor of the anti-Assad uprising.

Hezbollah's role in Syria has helped Assad beat back the rebellion against his rule in critical areas of the country including Damascus and a corridor of territory stretching north from the capital. But large parts of Syria's less densely populated north and east have fallen to Islamic State.

"This danger does not recognise Shi'ites, Sunnis, Muslims, Christians or Druze or Yazidis or Arabs or Kurds. This monster is growing and getting bigger," said Nasrallah.

Nasrallah reiterated his defence of Hezbollah's role in the Syrian conflict, the focus of criticism from Lebanese opponents who say the group has provoked Sunni militant attacks in Lebanon.

Most recently, insurgents including members of Islamic State seized the town of Arsal at the Syrian border, battling the Lebanese army for five days before withdrawing with 19 soldiers and 17 policemen as captives.

Nasrallah said the insurgents would have advanced as far as the Lebanese coast were it not for Hezbollah's role fighting them in areas of Syria just east of the Lebanese border.

"Going to fight in Syria was, in the first degree, to defend Lebanon, the resistance in Lebanon, and all Lebanese," he said.

A Hezbollah commander was last month killed in Iraq near Mosul, a city seized by Islamic State in June, suggesting the group may also be helping pro-government forces there.

Hezbollah has not officially announced any role in Iraq.

Nasrallah linked the threat posed by Islamic State to the spread of Wahhabism, a puritanical school of Islam followed in Saudi Arabia that demands obedience to the ruler but which has been widely blamed for fuelling Sunni radicalism.

"(Islamic State) does not have borders. There is a real danger and a real fear among many states and authorities, because one of the advantages of this organisation is its capacity to recruit among followers of al Qaeda-Wahhabi thought," he said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 06:38 AM

Was your last comment a bow drawn at a venture, BTW? Or do you know about my first wife's death?* In which case, what your point, exactly, I wonder?

≈M≈

*If not, google - grosvenor myer suicide -


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 06:27 AM

What! At my age? Nice of you to say so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 05:44 AM

Made to do it unpaid at gunpoint, was she, do you think? Then what has sex-slavery got to do with it, you foolish jumped-up little oik? Take your unwanted self off this decent forum, you hear? We don't need stupid smartarses like WendellBum or whevs your stupid name snarling it up. If ever I read a fatuous irrelevant post, that one has to take the all-timeprize.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:52 AM

Steve,
Not to speak of biased, as, clearly, you select only sources that reinforce your own prejudices.

That last quote about ISIS taking women and girls as sex slaves was from the Guardian on Monday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:20 PM

And your opinions are what is harvested by the bumwipes and flushed to where you and your kind dwell.

Even I can't be in two places at once.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:19 PM

Posted in two threads, I note, minnow. You should have worked in Stalin's propaganda department. I won't honour you by also putting in my response twice. There for the finding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:06 PM

Yazidi Kurdish girls being sold by ISIS jihadis for $10. Unbelievable, but Sharia permits taking non-Muslim female POWs as sex slaves.

Yazidis tormented by fears for women and girls kidnapped by Isis jihadis


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:00 PM

And your opinions are what is harvested by the bumwipes and flushed to where you and your kind dwell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 06:52 PM

Wouldn't it be interesting to know what proportion of minnow-bobad's and prancing-clown bb's posts are nothing but copy 'n' pastes? It is not debate, gents. It is lazy and tiresome and meaningless unless you have something to say about your links. Not to speak of biased, as, clearly, you select only sources that reinforce your own prejudices. You're doing what the Russians and Chinese used to do in the bad old days, dropping propaganda leaflets on their people or pasting posters up on street walls. Try standing on your own two feet. Your e-leaflets are no more than e-bumwipes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 06:25 PM

An employee of the Dutch Justice Ministry said the jihadist group ISIS was created by Zionists seeking to give Islam a bad reputation.

Yasmina Haifi, a project leader at the ministry's National Cyber Security Center, made the assertion Wednesday on Twitter, the De Telegraaf daily reported.

"ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. It's part of a plan by Zionists who are deliberately trying to blacken Islam's name," wrote Haifi, who described herself on the social network LinkedIn as an activist for the Dutch Labor party, or PvdA.

She later removed her original message, explaining, "I realize the political sensitivity in connection with my work. That was not my intention."

Two right-wing lawmakers have asked the ministry how a person with such views reached a prominent position within the ministry. The lawmakers, Joram van Klaveren and Louis Bontes of the VNL faction, asked whether the minister thought Haifi's employment constituted a security risk.

ISIS, which is considered a terrorist organization in many Western countries, has been in the news in the Netherlands because of a series of pro-ISIS demonstrations in the Hague in July and earlier this month. Some demonstrators called for violence.

Two of the demonstrations, on July 2 and 24, featured calls to kill Jews. When anti-ISIS demonstrators tried to march through the heavily-Muslim neighborhood of Schilderswijk on August 10 to express their disapproval, a crowd of approximately 200 men barricaded the neighborhood's main street and staged an illegal counter-demonstration in support of ISIS.

When riot police tried to remove the obstacles, some of the local protesters hurled stones at them. Six people were arrested.

Dutch Justice Ministry Employees Claims ISIS is a Zionist Conspiracy


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:49 PM

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Islamic State militants are massing near the Iraqi town of Qara Tappa, 122 km (73 miles) north of Baghdad, security sources and a local official said, in an apparent bid to broaden their front with Kurdish peshmerga fighters.

The Sunni militants have made a dramatic push through the north to a position near Arbil, capital of the semi-autonomous Kurdish region.

The movement around Qara Tappa suggests they are getting more confident and seeking to grab more territory closer to the capital after stalling in that region.

"The Islamic State is massing its militants near Qara Tappa," said one of the security sources. "It seems they are going to broaden their front with the Kurdish fighters."

Islamic State has also been using tunnels built by Saddam Hussein in the 1990s to secretly move fighters, weapons and supplies from strongholds in western Iraq to towns just south of Baghdad.

The group, made up of Iraqis, other Arabs and foreign fighters has threatened to march on Baghdad, part of its ambition to redraw the map of the Middle East and impose its radical version of Islam.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 01:51 PM

Brilliant piece about the second democracy in the Middle East that is just around the corner. It also talks about what Israel should do in reaching out to this new democracy.

The author of the article, Ofra Bengio, is an Israeli professor at Tel Aviv University, and she's an expert on Kurdish studies.

Why the Kurds will become the second non Arab state in the Middle East


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 11:38 AM

Why?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 09:17 AM

I take it the cap fits?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:33 AM

U.S. air strikes continue against the terrorists of the so-called "Islamic State" -- formerly the "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria" or ISIS -- in the borderlands of Iraqi Kurdistan. American military action has been impelled by the genocidal ISIS threat to Christians and various small Kurdish and other religious minorities, including Yazidis, whose faith is linked to Zoroastrianism, and the ancient monotheistic community of Mandaeans. Meanwhile, questions about the extremist movement and its foreign recruits have spread throughout the Muslim lands and the Muslim minority communities in the West, from Belgium to Australia.

On Monday, August 11, authorities in the Kosovo Republic -- among the most pro-Western Muslim-majority states in the world -- announced the detention of 40 Kosovar citizens suspected of participation in terrorism in Iraq and Syria. The arrests came after raids at 60 locations in the Balkan country, and were carried out under procedures established by the Kosovo Penal Code protecting "constitutional order and security in the Republic."

The individuals jailed were identified only by initials and ages, and comprised eight in the Kosovo capital, Prishtina; seven in the eastern town of Gjilan, near the Serbian border; 11 from Ferizaj in the southeast; five from Prizren in the south; four from Peja in the northwest, and five from Mitrovica in the extreme north. The latter city is divided between Albanians and Serbs. Dates of birth ranged from 1962 to 1994.

Evidence seized included explosives, weapons and ammunition. Kosovo police noted that 16 Kosovar Albanians have been reported killed in fighting in Syria.

According to the Kosovar newspaper of record, Koha Ditore (Daily Times), police said the sweep followed a two-year investigation, which is ongoing. Koha Ditore quoted Sevdije Morina, Kosovo's acting chief special prosecutor, who declared that several local Muslim clerics are also under scrutiny. The same newspaper cited Blerim Isufaj, the prosecutor of the case, saying the majority of the suspects were affiliated with ISIS or Jabhat Al-Nusra, rival splinter groups from al Qaeda.

In Western Europe, alarm over ISIS and its appeal to the local Muslim diaspora emerged after the Brussels attack on the city's Jewish Museum on May 24. Four people were killed in that incident, allegedly by Mehdi Nemmouche, a French Muslim who had fought in Syria. French interior minister Manuel Valls had warned in January that the return of jihadists from distant combat zones to Europe is "the greatest danger that we must face in the coming years." Valls referred to ISIS influence in Muslim minorities as "a phenomenon of unprecedented size."

On August 11, Australia was shocked as its media reported that Khaled Sharrouf, a convicted terror conspirator in that country, who went to Syria last year, had posted an image on his Twitter account of a child believed to be Sharrouf's son holding the severed head of a Syrian soldier.

In between, both in time and space, Albanians were repelled when, on July 31, a Kosovar in the ranks of ISIS, Lavdrim Muhaxheri, posted photographs on his Facebook page of himself decapitating a Syrian soldier.

Muhaxheri has a history in Kosovo of supporting extremists in Syria. On May 12, the Kosovo daily web-portal Express, in a reportage signed by its intrepid investigator of radical Islam, Visar Duriqi, said that Muhaxheri had worked in the official Kosovo Islamic Community apparatus in Kacanik, a city near the southern Kosovo border with Macedonia. In Facebook posts before his atrocity photo was posted, Muhaxheri claimed he controlled the appointment of the imam at the Central Mosque in Kacanik, which has become a center of conflict between Islamist radicals and local traditional Muslims.

Muhaxheri threatened to kill Kacanik clerics as well as politicians and public figures in Kosovo who denounced incitement of young Albanian Muslims to fight in Syria.

As described by the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) on its portal, Balkan Insight, for July 31, Kosovo president Atifete Jahjaga summoned a meeting with security officials of the Balkan republic the day Muhaxheri's Facebook images appeared. She called for "treating this threat to the security of Kosovo as a priority." Jahjaga said, "It is our responsibility as institutions and as a society to condemn these ugly phenomena. We must distance ourselves from these brutal acts of criminals, and we must denounce and treat them as such."

Kosovo justice minister Bajram Rexhepi stated that an international arrest warrant had been issued for Muhaxheri.

The involvement of Albanians in ISIS has not escaped the attention of more influential global commentators. On August 7, David Gardner, a Middle East expert and reporter for the London Financial Times, pointed out that when, at the beginning of the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, corresponding with the end of June, the "Islamic State" proclaimed its authority over all the Sunni Muslim believers in the world, the text was "translated into English, French, German, Turkish, Russian - and Albanian." Gardner asked, "Why... take the trouble?"

Gardner attributed the appeal of the "Islamic State" for Albanian Muslims to penetration of the Muslim communities in the Western Balkans by Wahhabism, the fundamentalist doctrine originating in Saudi Arabia.

Radio Free Europe reported on August 8 that Naim Maloku, a prominent veteran of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) in the 1998-99 war for the territory, and now a military and security expert, said that Kosovo legal institutions must prevent local citizens from fighting abroad and that the official Islamic Community must be more involved in countering jihadist propaganda. "In their preaching, [Muslim] religious leaders should be more active in their statements," Maloku said.

During the fighting in Gaza, radical voices were heard in Kosovo demanding that Albanians support Hamas. On August 1, the "Islamic Movement to Unite," also known as "Join!," and by its Albanian initials as LISBA, was supported by fewer than 100 people in a pro-Gaza protest held in Prishtina.

Kosovar Albanians are sympathetic, within limits, to the Palestinians. Many Kosovars are bitter about close relations between Serbia and Palestine. Muhammad Nabhan, ambassador of the Palestinian Authority in Belgrade, the Serbian capital, since 1974, has stated repeatedly that Palestinians support Serbian claims to rule in Kosovo and has even denied that Serbia - which invaded and annexed Kosovo in 1912 -- ever "occupied" Kosovo. In 1999, the Palestinian Authority invited the late Slobodan Milosevic to visit Bethlehem for Orthodox Christian Christmas in January 2000. Israel then warned that if the Serbian dictator attempted to cross its borders, he would be arrested and sent to the International Criminal Tribunal for Former Yugoslavia at The Hague. The visit never took place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 04:42 AM

Yes, you are much better at playground name calling than debating.
If you could argue, you would.
You have nothing to say so its back to naughty words and names, as if you just learned them from the big boys.
You lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 11:43 PM

Tut tut, bigot. I gave you the official UK Muslim condemnation of Isis, above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 09:25 PM

Muslims Demonstrating Against ISIS


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 08:12 PM

Breaking News: Defense officials said late Wednesday that United States airstrikes and Kurdish fighters had broken the siege on Mount Sinjar in northern Iraq, allowing thousands of Yazidis trapped there to escape.

NY Times


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 06:12 PM

Top Cat calling, Greg! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 05:24 PM

Hardly what Greg?
You asked for the source, and were given it.
What is your point?
What is the point of you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 05:04 PM

Hardly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 02:43 PM

Sorry for duplication.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 02:29 PM

Here it is Greg.
Newsweek 1 day ago.
http://www.newsweek.com/islamic-state-supporters-hand-out-leaflets-central-london-promising-dawn-new-era-264158


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 01:52 PM

http://www.newsweek.com/islamic-state-supporters-hand-out-leaflets-central-london-promising-dawn-new-era-264158


OK, Greggie boy.

Now YOU can provide the source of YOUR comments.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 01:35 PM

I really didn't intend to let Keith loose with his re-written version of Irish history
My example still stands - Irish leadership executed following an unpopular uprising - immediate war of Independence lasting five years up to an unsatisfactory treaty being signed, leading to 70 years of culminating in a bloodbath
Your dates are right Richard - Siege of Waterford.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 01:19 PM

Faysh Khabur, Iraq (CNN) -- In an exodus of almost biblical proportions, thousands trudge across a river to escape killers belonging to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.

Entire families carry nothing but the clothes on their backs. Some are barefoot.

Jamal Jamir, a 23-year-old university student from Sinjar, told CNN his family fled to the barren and windswept Mount Sinjar more than a week ago after ISIS captured their town. The group, which calls itself the Islamic State, has been on a rampage, killing members of various minorities, including Yazidis.

Jamir said after ISIS arrived in his town, Arab neighbors of his turned on the minorities and helped ISIS kill. "They join them, and actually they kill us."

"People you know?" CNN asked.

"Yes," he responded. "People -- our neighbors!"

CNN


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 01:17 PM

Source of 13 Aug 14 - 12:23 PM , Bullshot?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 01:03 PM

The IS should provoke profound introspection in the Sunni Arab world. Instead, various forms of Baghdadi Denial Syndrome are getting all the attention.

One of the most alarming features of Arab responses to the rise of the Islamic State (IS) in Syria and Iraq is a persistent pattern of neurotic denial in the form of conspiracy theories and other escapist fantasies. But running away from the truth will only complicate the ability of Arab states and societies to comprehend where the IS came from, how it has unexpectedly managed to surge into so much power so quickly, and how it can be effectively countered.

One of the most persistent and widespread delusions is that the IS did not, in fact, emerge from Sunni Muslim communities in Iraq and Syria over the course of the wars there in the past decade. Instead, it is increasingly asserted, the IS is a creature of, and was established by, intelligence services such as the CIA or the Israeli Mossad. An extraordinarily large number of Arabs, Muslims and others appear to have taken refuge in these conspiracy theories. Call it Baghdadi Denial Syndrome.

The most outlandish version circulating online holds that IS leader and "caliph" Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is, in fact, a Jewish actor named Elliot Shimon, or some such plausibly-Jewish name. Shimon, it's laughably alleged, was trained for a year by the Mossad in various skills, including theology and rhetoric.

Even some who don't embrace this detailed self-parody are still clinging to the notion that Baghdadi and the IS are, somehow, foreign impositions on the Sunni Muslim social and political landscape of Syria and Iraq. An astounding number and range of Arabs, in my own experience in recent weeks, embrace some version of a conspiracy theory holding that the IS and Baghdadi are not what they seem and are, in fact, the creations of Western or Israeli intelligence services.

In a way, this thinking reflects a positive impulse. There is a desire to reject Baghdadi and the IS, and an unwillingness to accept the fact that such vicious malefactors could actually have been organically produced by elements of Syrian and Iraqi society under extreme pressures. Like Arab and Muslim 9/11 conspiracy theories, it begins with a disavowal – "that can't have had anything to do with any of us" – that, rather than producing serious introspection, gives way to denial through conspiracy theory and a terror of the truth.

Hussein Ibish: Baghdadi Denial Syndrome


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 12:23 PM

Extremist supporters of Islamic State have been handing out leaflets promoting the establishment of a "Kahlifah" and calling on Muslims to "obey the Kahleef", on the streets central London this week, becoming threatening and abusive when challenged, according to witnesses.

One of the leaflets given out by the supporters calls for Muslims to "spread the Khalifah [caliphate] across the world," forming a new Islamic State governed by an Imam executing Islamic Sharia law.

Asmaa Al-Kufaishi, a British-Iraqi doctor, tweeted images she said were of the group canvassing around the busy shopping area of Oxford Street on Saturday, with materials using symbolism associated with the fundamentalist militant group Islamic State, formerly known as ISIS, which has declared a "caliphate" across parts of Syria and Iraq.

"My sister noticed the circle logo ISIS use on its flags and we then asked them why they were using it," Al-Kufaishi told Newsweek. "Initially they were cagey but then a guy with the ginger beard said there was nothing wrong with ISIS or anything they were doing in Iraq and Syria. That's how it started because I took offence to that and when we questioned him and his colleagues we were abused regarding our Iraqi nationality and the fact we were a different Islamic sect to them. We were told that we were kuffar (non believers) and that we should be killed like those Christians and Muslims in Iraq."

"When asked basic Islamic knowledge they had no idea. They are just a bunch of ignorant people who have used Islam as a way of terrorising others. they honestly didn't have a clue about the basic Islamic teachings and history," she added.

The leaflet says it is the responsibility of Muslims from around the world to pledge "Bayah [religious oath of allegiance] to the Khaleef" and "obey the Khaleef according to the Shariah". The leaflet goes on to argue "all those who can migrate and resettle should migrate", as "Muslims with the help of Allah have announced the re-establishment of the Khalifah".

Ghaffar Hussain, managing director at the Quilliam Foundation told Newsweek that the men handing out the leaflets were well-known extremists from Luton, probably associated with the al-Muhajiroun extremist network.

Hussain, who had spoken to someone who had witnessed the group distributing the leaflets near Oxford Circus on Tuesday but didn't want to speak to journalists, named one of the men as Ibrahim Anderson, formerly known as Roger Anderson, a white British convert to Islam. He said that the group had responded with abuse when challenged by passers-by. Newsweek could not independently verify the identities of those present at the protest.

"This is a very disturbing development but one that should not come as a surprise since we are aware that around 500 British nationals have joined up with ISIS already, said Hussain. "We need to have a zero tolerance policy towards ISIS supporters and recruiters in the UK."

The Metropolitan Police said that they were looking investigating whether the leaflets contained any criminal material but said they were not aware of any threats made against members of the public.

Last month pro-Islamic State supporters were filmed protesting in the Netherlands on two separate occasions in the Hague. This marked the first time the group's black flags were flown in Europe. The Dutch government has since made public displays of the flag illegal.

Last Thursday a banner bearing similar insignia to ISIS was hoisted off the gates of London's Will Crooks estate on Poplar High Street, the Guardian reported.

Islamic State now controls large parts of north and eastern Syria and northern Iraq, and have recently clashed with the Lebanese army, briefly taking a border town in Lebanon. The US has recently launched air strikes against the group to attempt to free thousands of Yazidis that Islamic State had surrounded on a mountain in Iraq, telling them they must convert to Islam or face death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 10:38 AM

Hopefully there will be no intention of capturing the members of this Islamic State they need to be killed, the sooner the better.

Hmm. I seem to recall people saying similar things about the Taliban a few years ago. Then we found out that many members of the Taliban were actually young men who didn't have a clue about "the politics" who couldn't make money to send to their families any other way. Death is so bloody final, isn't it, in the immortal words of Basil Fawlty. It's always a shame when you kill someone then find out you might have made a mistake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 10:35 AM

"We unequivocally condemn the violence committed by ISIS/L (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant)."

from here

http://www.mcb.org.uk/muslim-council-of-britain-comments-on-the-situation-in-iraq/

Bigot, Poo-bad?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 10:17 AM

Should some of that be in quotes? My quotes were specified to be so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 09:46 AM

Indeed, today's global events seem surreal and fictional in their evilness. The Yazidis of Iraq are facing genocide. Boko Haram and the Taliban continue their reign of terror: Horrifying, brutal, cruel and inhuman terror from beheadings to rape. Where is the outrage in the Muslim world over these atrocities?

I ask this as a Muslim activist who's exhausted, not from defending my faith, but from asking the same question over and over again for the past two decades. When I asked this question in the aftermath of 9/11, I was criticized for being a "fear-monger." Following the 7/7 terrorist attacks in the U.K., I called on the larger Muslim community to "wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late." For this, I was labelled a traitor. Later — as I uncovered and exposed the subversive agendas of Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah — I was labelled a heretic.

Raheel Raza: In the Muslim world, silence falls


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 06:21 AM

Took. 800 odd posts before Keith got into his "the micks loved us" routine.

I suppose I should congratulate his restraint.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 06:15 AM

"The English ruling class first invaded Ireland in the twelfth century" - Richard Bridge

12th Century - they would most likely speak "French" and still see themselves as Normans then Richard.

As for the rest - Jayzus ever think of writing a song about all of that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 06:06 AM

Young Irelander Rebellion?
Irish Republican Brotherhood?
Fenian Brotherhood?
1865 rebellion plans?
12 Feb 1967?
1879 Land War?
Phoenix Park Murders?


And some quotes: -

INTRODUCTION

"'Twas hard for mournful words to frame

To break the ties that bound us,

Ah but harder still to bear the shame

Of foreign chains around us.

And so I said: the mountain glen

I'll seek at morning early

And join the brave united men

While soft winds shake the barley."

Robert Dwyer Joyce (1830 - 1883) "The Wind that Shakes the Barley"

"To break the connection with England, the never-failing source of all our political evils, and to assert the independence of my country - these were my objects."

Wolfe Tone c.1790

"The entire ownership of Ireland, moral and material, up to the sun and down to the centre, is vested of right in the people of Ireland; that they and none but they are the landowners and law-makers of this island."

James Fintan Lalor, 1848

"We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies...

...In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the past three hundred years they have asserted it in arms."

Proclamation of the Irish Republic, 1916.

The English ruling class first invaded Ireland in the twelfth century, when feudal barons staked out their territory. Over the centuries English landlords grew rich at the expense of the Irish people.

A settler population to rule on behalf of the English was established and penal laws kept the Irish in subservience. As well as taxes and rents, Ireland supplied England with farm produce and cheap labour. Famine, evictions and poverty were the lot of Ireland's rural population.

The United Irishmen fought for their country's independence in the wake of the French Revolution. In the nineteenth century the Fenian Brotherhood took up the struggle. Then in the early years of the twentieth century the movement would no longer be denied, though it was fought at every turn by the British establishment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 05:26 AM

across most of Ireland, from long before 1916, English troops were islands in a sea of hostility

A large proportion of the young male population volunteered for the British army from 1914 to 1916.
There were no hostilities against English soldiers before that.
Sinn Fein went broke for lack of support.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 05:17 AM

Richard, I think Teribus' map is shown here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28222872


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 03:44 AM

Report saying some things like wot I sed...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/12/iraq-militants-changing-tactics-complicating-us-airstrike-mission/


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 03:09 AM

"PLEASE don't start FKWT off on his personal re-interpretation of Irish history"
No intention whatever of doings so Greg - my hearing is far to precarious nowadays to be able to put up with yet another display of his Lambeg drumming.
He has displayed his spectacular ignorance of Irish history enough times in the past to make that particular exercise unnecessary, and his latest offering is more than adequate proof of his partisan approach to the subject.
I raised it to point out the consequences of Terry the Trooper's brutish suggestion of "kill them all and take no prisoners men" - classic comic-book soldiering.
I agree with Richard that there is no alternative to doing what is in the process of being done at the moment, but the idea of deliberately slaughtering them all, makes anybody who would carry out or even suggest such a thing no better than the extremists and it would have the Hydra effect I suggested it would - cut of one head and another would grow.
These people are not an army, they are a dangerous idea - you don't kill them or suppress them out of existence - you make them unsustainable and unnecessary to people they are influencing and oppressing.
Create martyrs en-masse, especially where religion is concerned, and you guarantee that it will survive and spread to fight another day.
God save us all from military half-wits, especially anonymous wannabe ones, crouched behind keyboards in the comfort and safety of their own homes or holding forth at the bar around throwing-out time - peacetime Dad's Armiers all.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 03:06 AM

So Jim in what way were the Irish events of 1916 or any other time similar to the present situation with ISIS? You seem to make my point for me that the situations are really rather different.

Incidentally, it does indeed appear to be the case that the principle of home rule for Ireland had been accepted, and that the ball was rolling, after the Parliament Acts, by say 1912, so what the 1916 uprising (about which I did know) was remove the possibility of the whole of Ireland ruling itself right to the present day, and delay the possibility of Southern Ireland ruling itself until 1922.

And in any event, across most of Ireland, from long before 1916, English troops were islands in a sea of hostility, as I said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 02:25 AM

As far as Ireland goes it would appear that Richard and Christmas are talking about two different periods in history.

Richard thought that Christmas was referring to 1969 - 2008, whereas Christmas was talking about 1916 - 1921. Neither comparison is relevant to the Caliphate or the Islamic State.

Tell me Christmas, what has been the response to Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi's appeal for all Muslims to flock to his newly established "country"? As far as I can see most people do their level best to flee any territory threatened by this wanker and his "forces". Unfortunately IS, who to date have not fought against any rated opposition and who are apparently fleeing the fighting in Syria, are about to come up against the Kurds backed by the best and most experienced air force in the world, it will be an experience that they will not enjoy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Aug 14 - 02:08 AM

Sorry Richard no link the map only appeared on a report by the Beeb and has not been repeated.

Shifting ground for the Islamic State over the past few days:

1: US air support to Iraqi Government Forces and more importantly to the Kurdish Peshmerga Militia

2: US supplies of arms and ammunition to both Iraqi Government Forces and to the Kurdish Peshmerga Militia

3: Deployment of Special Advisors to Kurdish areas - As they did in Afghanistan operating with Northern Alliance forces in the period October to December 2001 they will identify, nominate and "paint" the IS targets to be hit from the air. In Afghanistan the combination of local ground forces, special advisors and air power ran the Taliban and their Al-Qaeda "guests" out of the country in seventy-one days (The Taliban had previously been unsuccessfully trying to defeat the Northern Alliance for seven years).

4: It would appear that the Iraqi Government is starting to get its act together re Nouri Al-Maliki. That will take time but it will be done and then they can proceed against IS "fighters" and any Sunni Tribes inside Iraq who support them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Aug 14 - 01:28 PM

Oh, God, Jim PLEASE don't start FKWT off on his personal re-interpretation of Irish history. His bullshit about WW I was hard enough to take.


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Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Aug 14 - 01:02 PM

"When will they ever learn?"
....that violence is not the best way in a democracy.

Home rule had already been agreed.
Years of bloody civil war was the only result of that "rising."


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