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Obit: Rev Fred Phelps, (1929-2014)

Wesley S 20 Mar 14 - 01:27 PM
frogprince 20 Mar 14 - 01:34 PM
Wesley S 20 Mar 14 - 01:37 PM
Greg F. 20 Mar 14 - 01:43 PM
gnu 20 Mar 14 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,michaelr 20 Mar 14 - 03:22 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Mar 14 - 03:55 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 20 Mar 14 - 04:32 PM
Jeri 20 Mar 14 - 04:52 PM
bobad 20 Mar 14 - 05:04 PM
Greg F. 20 Mar 14 - 07:05 PM
SINSULL 20 Mar 14 - 07:11 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Mar 14 - 07:36 PM
Allan C. 20 Mar 14 - 08:07 PM
GUEST,Troubadour 20 Mar 14 - 08:25 PM
GUEST 20 Mar 14 - 09:04 PM
Rapparee 20 Mar 14 - 10:50 PM
Janie 21 Mar 14 - 12:15 AM
Larry The Radio Guy 21 Mar 14 - 04:04 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Mar 14 - 09:29 AM
Greg F. 21 Mar 14 - 09:32 AM
Greg F. 21 Mar 14 - 09:37 AM
GUEST,gillymor 21 Mar 14 - 09:57 AM
Greg F. 21 Mar 14 - 10:57 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Mar 14 - 11:12 AM
Amos 21 Mar 14 - 12:24 PM
Bat Goddess 21 Mar 14 - 01:13 PM
Greg F. 21 Mar 14 - 02:10 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Mar 14 - 02:34 PM
Wesley S 21 Mar 14 - 02:50 PM
Greg F. 21 Mar 14 - 03:02 PM
GUEST,Eliza 21 Mar 14 - 03:40 PM
Richard Bridge 21 Mar 14 - 03:59 PM
Wesley S 21 Mar 14 - 04:08 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 21 Mar 14 - 04:44 PM
bobad 21 Mar 14 - 04:50 PM
Jeri 21 Mar 14 - 04:56 PM
Greg F. 21 Mar 14 - 05:43 PM
GUEST,Troubadour 21 Mar 14 - 07:08 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 21 Mar 14 - 10:31 PM
GUEST,Stim 21 Mar 14 - 11:46 PM
Larry The Radio Guy 22 Mar 14 - 02:21 AM
Musket 22 Mar 14 - 04:20 AM
Wesley S 22 Mar 14 - 08:41 AM
Greg F. 22 Mar 14 - 10:50 AM
GUEST 22 Mar 14 - 11:23 AM
JohnInKansas 22 Mar 14 - 11:25 AM
Joe Offer 22 Mar 14 - 03:21 PM
Greg F. 22 Mar 14 - 04:14 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Mar 14 - 08:04 PM
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Subject: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:27 PM

TOPEKA, Kan (WIBW) Fred Phelps Sr., the former head of the Westboro Baptist Church, died late Wednesday night, according to a family member.

Phelps' son, Timothy told 13 News that his father died just before midnight. Timothy Phelps works at the Shawnee Co. Jail.

Ironically, another son who is a member of the church, attorney Jonathan Phelps told us Thursday morning, "Pastor Phelps is doing just fine." That, of course, could have been a spiritual reference.

Margie Phelps, Phleps daughter, told WIBW-AM that there will be no funeral for him.

Over the weekend, we learned that Phelps was reportedly "on the edge of death."

In a statement on his Facebook page, Nathan Phelps, who has been estranged from his father for 30 years, said the senior Phelps was dying in hospice care in Topeka, Kan., and that he had been ex-communicated from his own church in August of 2013.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:34 PM

The world will be a better place for his having left it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:37 PM

I know it's unavoidable that many folks here will express hate and disgust for this man - but whatever pain this man went through that manifested itself to be expressed in the twisted world view he held is over. Let's hope his church just drifts away now that he isn't here to lead it. Let's not sink to his level.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 01:43 PM

One down, thousands of similar idiots to go.

Let's hope his church just drifts away now that he isn't here to lead it.

That's a joke, right? These assholes don't need Phelps to keep being assholes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 03:19 PM

He will be reincarnated as a homosexual. Or burn in hell. God spoke on Facebook today and said he was sending him to hell instead of allowing him back but maybe God is just having a bad day. Whatever... I couldn't give a flying about the asshole bully. Yeah, that is hatred and disgust for this piece of trash. Again... whatever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 03:22 PM

Good riddance to bad rubbish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 03:55 PM

Like, MichaelR


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 04:32 PM

Lots of sinking at least toward his level. I agree with Wesley S.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 04:52 PM

I think one has to know someone to hate them. I didn't hate Phelps. Just everything he stood for. If I were religious and was searching for evidence that Satan hides behind the guise of a righteous man, I'd point to Phelps. I'd also comment that people who are driven by hatred give themselves to it. Lots of folks like that around here, although, thankfully, they receive a lot less attention than Phelps did.

If it's possible to choose what we fill our lives with, I'd want it to be love, and hope, and generosity, and kindness. The world would be a better place if those were the weapons we fought with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 05:04 PM

You are a wise woman Jeri.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 07:05 PM

Lots of sinking at least toward his level. I agree with Wesley S.

So you think the death of this individual asshole will have any effect on his fellow assholes?

How and why?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 07:11 PM

Matthew Shepherd's mother says she thanks God every day for Rev. Phelps. Without his hateful, spiteful, vicious attacks her son would have been just another victim. Phelps turned him into a martyr and a cause. Phelps was his own worst enemy.

I believe that he like millions and millions before him has played his part and is gone. I thank him for calling attention to the plight of gays and lesbians.

My hope is that his funeral goes unnoticed. Let his family put his body to rest without the interfering rabble disrupting their grieving and calling attention to his version of the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 07:36 PM

Those who coax moderation from respondents are wise, but still, "good riddance to bad rubbish" pretty well sums it up. The family is wise to not have a funeral, they know how that would turn out. And I agree with Wesley, my first thought was that I hope the "church" drifts apart now that the old man has died.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Allan C.
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 08:07 PM

All together now... What the world needs now is love, sweet love. That's the only thing that there's just too little of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 08:25 PM

There's a little more of it, without him!

Job done!.......or at least a step nearer done!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 09:04 PM

I feel bad that I'm glad he's dead and not around to do any further direct harm.

I felt that way about Bin Laden, too.

Can't recall another time I was glad someone was dead... but I'm sure there have been some.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Mar 14 - 10:50 PM

Given an afterlife, I hope that he receives his eternal reward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Janie
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 12:15 AM

Wesley, Jeri, et. al. I echo you. Also echo someone who I don't recall because I was driving tonight as listened to "All Things Considered" , urging that folks, by example, afford his funeral, family and friends merely that which they themselves wanted when their own loved ones, (mostly service men killed) were memorialized and interred. His teachings were of vengance. Let us not perpetuate that lesson.

According to NPR All Things Considered, Phelps, before he was disbarred, took on a number of civil rights cases in the 60's after the 1964 act was passed. Was one of the few Kansas lawyers willing and passionate enough to tackle racism, and apparently did it with the same passion, zeal, and sense of moral certitude with which he attacked the notion of gay rights. I had no idea until I heard this tonight on NPR. Did not know he was an attorney. Still don't know why he was disbarred. But was one of the very few lawyers in that part of the nation the ACLU could count on being willing to take on cases that fought racial discrimination.

Pretty startling to learn. Like Jeri, I can't hate someone I don't know. Until by hapstance I heard that NPR snippet this evening I would have comfortably asserted that I can't hate him, only all he stood for. Now I can't even say that. Life and people are complicated. eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:04 AM

Absolutely, Janie. Even with the worst person, if we look hard enough, we'll find something about them we agree with-----and I've always found that this can be a doorway to dialogue and creating 'doubt'.

In response to Greg F: "So you think the death of this individual asshole will have any effect on his fellow assholes". Answer: I don't know. I guess one can always hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:29 AM

Sometimes people like to hate. As this thread confirms.

There's always a Bob Dylan quote:

As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don't hate nothing at all
Except hatred


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:32 AM

Answer: I don't know. I guess one can always hope.

Yiddish Proverb: "He who lives on hope dies of starvation."


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:37 AM

I don't hate Phelps and his fellow "Christian"[sic] assholes, Kevin. I'm just glad he's gone and wish they were.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 09:57 AM

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

-Bob Dylan


I don't aspire to dance on his grave but it's comforting to be reminded that these homophobic mossbacks eventually pass on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 10:57 AM

A much more appropriate Dylan quote, thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 11:12 AM

I heard that story also, Janie. The disbarment came after he started the virulent anti-gay activity. It was a puzzling story, making me think that if NPR played it on April 1 people would assume it was a joke.

Here is the NPR link.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Amos
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 12:24 PM

It is startling to learn this about him, isn't it. His thinkerator was bent, but he gave it all he had; now that he's off the stage, let him go in peace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 01:13 PM

Jeri said it perfectly.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 02:10 PM

now that he's off the stage, let him go in peace.

In God's name, why?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 02:34 PM

Because if you act like he did you're not much better than him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 02:50 PM

Exactly. Besides he's beyond hatred now. Like the song says - "It doesn't mean shit to a tree". How does the saying go - Hatred is like swollowing poison and expecting someone else to get sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 03:02 PM

Yup- let's legitimize his atrocities by being kind to his memory. He sure as hell didn't let anyone else "go in peace".

And I am in no way, shape or form "acting like he did". Get real, eh?

See above 9:37 AM: I don't hate Phelps and his fellow "Christian"[sic] assholes, Kevin. I'm just glad he's gone and wish they were.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 03:40 PM

Perhaps in a perverse way, he managed to show people just how nasty and evil gay-hating can be, and probably made folk wake up to the fact, and perhaps feel impelled to defend gays from such wicked attack. And all that rubbish at funerals, disrupting the mourners, and forcing the enactment of a Law to prevent this. Evil personified.
Isn't it weird that such men are called 'Reverend'? Like the 'Reverend' Ian Paisley. I can't imagine anything less reverend. I know one shouldn't judge a man by his physical appearance, but his face on the photos is truly sinister. Well, he has to face his Maker now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 03:59 PM

Liking quite a lot of what Greg F has to say.

Paisley may have been a bitter orange but those he opposed were terrorists and mass murderers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:08 PM

Who's being kind to his memory? His actions and viewpoints were atrocious. But sharing his viewpoints and turning them around and pointing them in a different direction doesn't do anyone any good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:44 PM

So Greg F, I'm wondering if you've even considered the possibility that your posts that espouse hatred and intolerance (despite that 9:37 A.M. post denying it) are actually the other side of the same coin?

I'm not asking you to 'agree'........but whether you've even considered that possibility and 'explored 'it.....rather than totally discounting it.

If Fred Phelps had the capacity to recognize what was truly behind his own hatred, I'm wondering if that could have been a first step toward change.    And now.......maybe some of his followers?

The more we villify a person, the more invested they are in defending themselves and making their point even 'louder'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: bobad
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:50 PM

Vilifying is Greg's stock-in-trade.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 04:56 PM

I'm glad he's gone and wish more of his minions were, but...
The way he and his 'church' treated LGBT people caused a backlash of protectiveness and kindness from average folks that really was a change. Motorcycle gangs protected grieving families, and all sorts of people stepped forward when they never had before. Great evil requires great good to balance out, and often call it forth from where it never existed before.

Life works as a series of pendulum swings. It goes one way, then another, until it slowly works to achieve equilibrium. I figure if it ever does that, it's all over. I don't think there's much chance that'll happen, though. We mostly want evil to be gone, but we need it a little.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 05:43 PM

your posts that espouse hatred and intolerance

Hello, Larry? What the fook are you talking about?

If Fred Phelps had the capacity to recognize what was truly behind his own hatred

Which he didn't.

I'm wondering if that could have been a first step toward change.

Which it wasn't.

And now.......maybe some of his followers?

Slim chance - but get back to me on that once you have documentation that his asshole "Christian"[sic] followers have had second thoughts and/or converted to tolerance and rationality.

The more we villify a person

Proven villians deserve villification. Or do you want to give this turd a pass?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 07:08 PM

"But was one of the very few lawyers in that part of the nation the ACLU could count on being willing to take on cases that fought racial discrimination."

As long as the blacks he represented weren't gay!

Sorry Janie, it's not enough.

Hell has a new occupant who deserves extra specially severe treatment.

No tears here for his passing and no respect for his good side, if he even had one, which is doubtful.

That is not hatred, or vengeance! Just a dispassionate assessment of the man and his abhorrent nature.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 10:31 PM

Thanks for the answer, Greg. I guess you never have considered it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 11:46 PM

Phelps & Co. were like the geeks in the carnival freak show, who could be counted on to do something disgusting whenever a TV camera was pointed at them, and they boosted news ratings whenever they showed up.

Had the media chosen to ignore them, they would have been an amusing footnote, much like those characters with the "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand" sandwich boards that used to loiter on the fringes of public gatherings.The media chose pushed them into the national spotlight however, and it kept them there.

Cynical types might say that the "Liberal Media" used them to characterized those who oppose gay rights as frothing at the mouth sociopaths, but I don't believe the media has a hidden agenda. I think it was all done for the ratings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 02:21 AM

I think Stim's right on!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: Musket
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 04:20 AM

True. Without professional media interest, bigots would only have outlets such as social media with which to spew their bile.

One more dead, but quite a few to go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:41 AM

Stim nailed it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 10:50 AM

Thanks for the answer, Greg. I guess you never have considered it.

Not so Larry - I gave it the due consideration it deserved & rejected it as nonsense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 11:23 AM

Fred's dead, a situation to which I give a silent nod and my humble approval.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 11:25 AM

If all you've seen of Phelps, his family, and "his" church has been the news of their picketings, as will likely be the case for most here(?), a "short book length" article giving a fairly complete biography is available and should be of interest.

An introduction to the book, quoted here, as it typically appears at a number of sites, explains the rather curious way in which it was "unpublished, sealed by the court, but public information anyway."

Addicted to Hate: The Fred Phelps Story

[quote]

Cover (Notes from the Anti-Phelps Underground)
IMPORTANT NOTES FROM THE ANTI-PHELPS UNDERGROUND

On June 29, 1994 Jon Michael Bell, a former reporter hired to investigate Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church by Stauffer Communications, Inc.,filed a lawsuit in Shawnee County District Court in Topeka, Kansas against Stauffer Communications alleging the Topeka Capital-Journal owed him compensation for overtime and to clarify ownership of his notes and work product. The work product in question, "Addicted to Hate" chronicling the life and times of Fred Phelps, was attached to the lawsuit as Exhibit A making it, therefore, a public document.

Learning of the suit, members of Topeka's anti-Phelps underground delivered a certified copy of the lawsuit to a copy shop near the courthouse.

Within 48 hours, Stauffer Communications had written all area media outlets and issued veiled warnings about using the information contained in "Addicted to Hate". A rival Topeka newspaper, the Metro News, announced it was considering publishing the lawsuit in it entirety. The Kansas City Star abided by Stauffer Communication's wishes, but several other media outlets aired or printed portions of the manuscript. Within 48 hours of the filing, Stauffer Communications persuaded a judge to seal the suit so the Clerk of the District Court could no longer make copies for the public. No matter - no such order was issued to the copy shop or to the hundreds of citizens that already had copies.

On July 8 the Capital-Journal, which had deep-sixed the Phelps project and fired the publisher who authorized it when it was completed last fall, suddenly began its watered-down, copyrighted series on Phelps that they had earlier claimed they wouldn't print.

Bell also withdrew his suit the same day.

By this time, however, TV networks, wire services, and eastern newspapers had obtained copies of the manuscript, and Stauffer's unprecedented attempt to suppress media discussion of the document attracted the interest of several major East Coast newspapers on First Amendment grounds.

...

[End quote]

The "book" is about 100 pages as I saved it in a single Word .doc, and doesn't take long to read. As posted at this site, it's about 10 separate "Chapter" downloads if you want to save it and put it all together into a single file, but a menu of links lets you jump from chapter to chapter if you just want to read it.

(It has been posted at a number of sites, and you might find it elsewhere in more convenient form. Most sites should show up in a search for "Addicted to Hate.")

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 03:21 PM

The death of Fred Phelps is a good occasion for saying gentle, nonaggressive things about tolerance, which is what we all seek, if we are people of good will. I've seen many good photos and quotations on Facebook over the last day. Amos posted a photo of a smiling, gentle Dalai Lama with this quote:

Whether one believes in a religion or not,
and whether one believes in rebirth or not,
there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate
kindness and compassion.

Amen.

Fred Phelps was a talented, dynamic man who appeared to be full of hate. But his hatred led many people to go in the opposite direction - toward kindness, tolerance, and compassion. His Westboro Baptist Church had 40 members - it was certainly not a megachurch. Their hatred inspired compassion and tolerance in the hearts of countless thousands. May his troubled soul finally rest in peace.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 04:14 PM

there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate
kindness and compassion.


Fred Phelps and his followers excepted, of course.

His Westboro Baptist Church had 40 members...

You're not maintaining that there are only 40 "God Hates Fags" hateful bigots running around loose, are you? What about the "countless thousands" of similar fundagelicl idiots that support Phelps' outlook?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Rev Fred Phelps (1929-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 08:04 PM

A classy response.


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