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BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?

Joe Offer 25 Feb 14 - 04:09 AM
Pete Jennings 25 Feb 14 - 04:20 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Feb 14 - 04:51 AM
Ed T 25 Feb 14 - 05:00 AM
GUEST,Patsy 25 Feb 14 - 05:04 AM
Joe Offer 25 Feb 14 - 05:22 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Feb 14 - 05:39 AM
akenaton 25 Feb 14 - 05:41 AM
Monique 25 Feb 14 - 05:49 AM
G-Force 25 Feb 14 - 06:19 AM
Teribus 25 Feb 14 - 06:41 AM
Rob Naylor 25 Feb 14 - 06:45 AM
Ed T 25 Feb 14 - 07:15 AM
Pete Jennings 25 Feb 14 - 07:39 AM
GUEST,Dani 25 Feb 14 - 07:42 AM
Amergin 25 Feb 14 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,Eliza 25 Feb 14 - 08:42 AM
Jack the Sailor 25 Feb 14 - 09:16 AM
GUEST,Seaham Cemetry 25 Feb 14 - 09:26 AM
Allan C. 25 Feb 14 - 09:50 AM
pdq 25 Feb 14 - 10:08 AM
GUEST,leeneia 25 Feb 14 - 10:25 AM
Bill D 25 Feb 14 - 11:15 AM
GUEST 25 Feb 14 - 11:25 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Feb 14 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Eliza 25 Feb 14 - 11:37 AM
jacqui.c 25 Feb 14 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,Eliza 25 Feb 14 - 01:50 PM
akenaton 25 Feb 14 - 02:36 PM
GUEST,Eliza 25 Feb 14 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,mg 25 Feb 14 - 03:32 PM
akenaton 25 Feb 14 - 03:44 PM
Joe_F 25 Feb 14 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,Eliza 25 Feb 14 - 04:24 PM
Allan C. 25 Feb 14 - 04:49 PM
Jack the Sailor 25 Feb 14 - 05:00 PM
Bill D 25 Feb 14 - 05:50 PM
akenaton 25 Feb 14 - 06:26 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Feb 14 - 06:52 PM
Jack the Sailor 25 Feb 14 - 09:47 PM
Janie 25 Feb 14 - 11:55 PM
Joe Offer 26 Feb 14 - 02:10 AM
GUEST,Dani 26 Feb 14 - 09:12 AM
GUEST,Eliza 26 Feb 14 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,CS 26 Feb 14 - 02:34 PM
GUEST,mg 26 Feb 14 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,CS 26 Feb 14 - 02:54 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Feb 14 - 03:04 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Feb 14 - 03:06 PM
GUEST,CS 26 Feb 14 - 03:11 PM
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Subject: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 04:09 AM

I saw Facebook messages this evening from two wonderful young women, each proclaiming their love for the young men they're with. I clicked the "like" button for them, but I'm not at all impressed by the men they've fallen for. These are good, intelligent, loving women - and I'm afraid they are going to be abused, at least mentally, by the men they've chosen. Both of these women have had children by men who abandoned them and the children, and both have dated men who have criminal records.
These two women are wonderful, but the guys they pick are horrible. Why does this happen?
I hate to say anything negative to them to destroy the joy they have when their relationships are good, but my heart just aches for them.
Why? why? Why?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 04:20 AM

Disregarding their past relationships, what makes you think that their current "good" relationships will go wrong?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 04:51 AM

Joe - I agree. Pete, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:00 AM

Quite often, women (and men) choose a partner later in life that they would never give a second look to whole younger. I suspect that as people mature, and go through one, or more partners, I suspect they learn what is important in life and relationships. Possibly, one has to try on a few shoes to get the right fit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:04 AM

I think this is something we have all asked or wondered about in life as far back as time in memorial. Especially the older you get and you have seen all kinds of things happening along the way. Unfortunately we know that a lot of the young tend to let the heart rule the head and sometimes mistakes are made along the way just lifes experience although painful. At the other end of the scale my mother had a full long devoted marriage to my father obviously I am biased because he was my dad but he was the most devoted loyal protective husband and father to me. However, he did and saw to absolutely everything so when he died his loss was more than just devastating for my mother her very soul was torn away. This is digressing from the topic a bit but they should know that this is the only life we have got and also the lives of any children that might come along so a quality life is the best. Whatever they do though it will eventually lead to a heartbreak of some kind but better if supported by a family unit.   But unfortunately the young seem to think that they will go on forever full of dramas, hearts and flowers, and everything they see on the screen and movies is real, I did once too! You only have to look at some of the current pop stars to see that. It's sad but they have to learn for themselves the same as everyone else in life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:22 AM

Pete, both of these women have a history. One is maybe 35 now, and I've known her for 15 years. She's going back to a boyfriend who was bad for her the first time.
The other is 24 and happily pregnant with her third child, and has been involved with at least two guys during this pregnancy. And every guy seems to be a borderline criminal.
Both seem to go from one disastrous relationship to another, and yet they both are intelligent, loving, beautiful young women. Both come from difficult family situations, and they seem intent on carrying on the difficulties to another generation.
It's such a shame.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:39 AM

Mind you there are men the same. I have a distant relative who seems to be able to walk into new horizontal pastures at leisure, but finished up time and time again with bad tempered dishonest controlling and violent women.

I suspect there is much to the old French saying "La coeur d'une femme ne change point".


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:41 AM

Men and women want different things from their partners.

Understanding the female mind is a lifes work, once you've got it sussed, you're too effing old to do anything about it.... :0)

But its still a nice position to be in   :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Monique
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:49 AM

They might be repeating some family pattern(s), they might believe (usually unconsciously) that they're not worth/they don't deserve better than that, they might feel they're "saving" someone, there might be many more reasons... usually unconscious one


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: G-Force
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 06:19 AM

Peer pressure?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 06:41 AM

No accounting for taste


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 06:45 AM

In my experience many women tend to fall for the "Jack The Lad" types, even when they get older. A lot will *say* that they're looking for a loving, reliable, straightforward partner, but when it comes down to it will time after time select a more "edgy" type.

A while back when I was going through some relationship difficulties, a friend (an old school friend) who's a serial (actually parallel) womaniser and who *never* lacks for a string of women hanging on his every whim wrote me a note about "how to succeed with women" if I got to a situation where I was "back on the market".

I'd been saying to him that most of my good friends were women, and that I tend to get on with women better than men in general, though they never saw me as potential partner material.

He very much propounded the "treat 'em mean and keep 'em keen" philosophy, saying that he would never ever treat a woman to dinner or a night out until they'd been to bed...he insisted on going "Dutch" with them before then, but would do the odd treat after they'd had sex.

He was never successful with women at school or university, but told me that he'd made a conscious effort to become "a bit of an arsehole" with women when he realised that nearly all the guys who were most succesful in that department treated women badly.

He did say that he thought I'd have real trouble adopting his philosophy as I was "too nice", empathised too much with women and listened to them too much. His comment was: "they can get empathy, a shoulder to cry on and someone to talk to from their girlfriends. From a partner they want someone more "manly" who's a bit wild and exciting. Let's face it, they don't see you as a potential partner, just as a girlfriend who happens to have a dick!".

Looking around, there seems to be a lot of truth in that, and it depresses me :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 07:15 AM

My observation is that there are people who are attracted to situations which their logic should send them in another direction. Possibly, these folks also get some odd benefit from being in the situation (that most dont understand), or they are simply "wired" differently-much like folks who seek the "rush" from being exposed to extreme danger or chaos? Iwould not rule out some may be impacted by (learned behaviour) from youth. Added, may be the "missionary types" who seek out a "damaged" individual, in hopes of successful rehabilitation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 07:39 AM

Joe, understood. Richard, I agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 07:42 AM

'cause there aren't enough men like you in the world?

Dani


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 07:49 AM

Sunday, I just had this lovely woman tell me she was too damaged for me....like I'm not fucked up...and so instead of being with one who would treat her the way she deserves....love her the way she needs...she is off in search of "passion"....which means to another shit head. My feeling is if you feel you deserve being fucked over time and again...then you're probably right....


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 08:42 AM

I think some women were treated terribly at home while young by abusive/drunk/physically cruel/absent fathers and are subconsciously trying to re-create that toxic situation. They don't feel 'at home' with a nice, gentle or kind man because they've been programmed to expect and accept bad behaviour. Also, toxic relationships create a level of stress and tension which can be addictive, especially in a depressed person. The 'buzz' of fear or pain is a contrast to the 'deadness' of calm and peace. Also, low self-esteem might mean that these women don't feel they 'deserve' a good man. And finally, there are 'rescuers' who take on lame dogs and strugglers in an attempt to rehabilitate or save them. It seldom works, and the woman wears herself out making excuses for bad, violent, criminal or addictive behaviour. All these situations are ten times worse of course when there are children involved. The only way forward IMO is through therapy and self-knowledge. I saw quite a lot of this sort of thing among the young lassies visiting their men in prison. Many of them were banging their heads on a brick wall, but couldn't see it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 09:16 AM

A couple of observations.

It's culture. From before I was born, Brando, James Dean, Elvis, to Justin Bieber and vampire romance, Bad boys are the thing. I don't know "Jack the Lad" But I think Rob Naylor have made this point first.

It's Psycology, Eliza makes a good point about repeating patterns.

It's what is available? Young, strong good hearted men who have their lives together have plenty of romantic options, (I'm trying to say this carefully while still making my point) They tend to try to mix socially with women who do not exhibit patterns of self destructive behavior.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Seaham Cemetry
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 09:26 AM

Perhaps they make them laugh? Perhaps they are well endowed? Perhaps being a bit edgy is a turn on? Perhaps ?

Perhaps we shouldnt worry too much. Many here are parents I suppose, and which of you have havent disapproved of your offspring's choices?

My wife and I come from very different backgrounds and are very happy together. However, some of my (more distant luckily) family spoke of her being a gold digger and I was marrying beneath myself.

Tell you what, you can choose your lovers, but I wish I could disown some of my so called family.

Making mistakes, by the way, is part of life's rich tapestry. Hence I notice it is more common for religious people to give disapproving stares and barbed comments than others. If religion can be, apparently, the pursuit of doing good things, getting it wrong is anamethma to them.

The pattern holds here too I notice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Allan C.
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 09:50 AM

Joe, you can ask this and other questions 'til the cows come home, but doing so will not change the outcome. It will be what it will be even if you were to voice your reservations directly to these women. They are old enough to have figured out a few things and perhaps you are underestimating the men. Whatever the case, I believe your place as a friend is to offer support if or when things go south.


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Subject: LYR ADD: Ladies Love Outlaws
From: pdq
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 10:08 AM

LADIES LOVE OUTLAWS
(Lee Clayton)

Bessie was a lovely child from west Tennessee
Leroy was an outlaw wild as a mink
One day she saw him starin' and it chilled her to the bone
And she knew she had to see that look on a child of her own.

CHORUS
'Cause ladies love outlaws like babies love stray dogs
Ladies touch babies like a banker touches gold
And outlaws touch the ladies
Somewhere deep down in their soul.

Linda was a lady blonde and built to last
Benny was a no good guitar picker runnin' from his past
She heard all of his songs tellin' nothin' but bad news
But she made her mind up to try to get him win or lose.

CHORUS
Ladies love outlaws like babies love stray dogs
Ladies touch babies like a banker touches gold
And outlaws touch the ladies
Somewhere deep down in their soul.

Jessi like the Cadillacs and diamonds on her hands
Waymore had a reputation as a ladies' man
Late one night a light of love finally gave a sign
Jessi parked her Cadillac and took her place in line.

CHORUS
'Cause ladies love outlaws like babies love stray dogs
Ladies touch babies like a banker touches gold
And outlaws touch the ladies
Somewhere deep down in their soul.

CHORUS
Ladies love outlaws like babies love stray dogs
Ladies touch babies like a banker touches gold
And outlaws touch the ladies
Somewhere deep down in their soul...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 10:25 AM

You are asking the question the wrong way, Joe. The question is, why are losers drawn to girls?

Well, take the average male loser. No education, criminal record, no job prospects, no welfare, uses substances. All he can do is find a woman and convince her, with affectionate gestures, soft words, cheap presents and persistence, that he 'loves' her.

(It's rather like a lost cat's very effective techniques for getting a human to adopt it.)

She's been taught that she needs a man, so she falls for it until his criminal tendencies take over, and he either kills her or is thrown out. Then the cycle begins anew.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 11:15 AM

When I was MUCH younger, I invented the term "charismatic bastard" to cover several situations I was aware of. It explains a lot. One man I knew played the game to the hilt... he was driven to court a woman as if she was the most desirable thing in the universe- until he won- then he was bored.

Lots of men learn the social tricks to lie convincingly about their true nature & intentions while being 'fascinating' and providing adventure. If they have enough money to make the adventure really wild, is it any wonder they can attract 'enough' women?

The whole culture is designed to further this.... ads, wedding books, film, jewelry stores, dating sites...etc.

Of course, not all women fall for the game, but it takes some awareness & resistance to opt out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 11:25 AM

Biology - women wired to marry the big strong wallet-wielding provider, and cheat on him with the wastrel artist.

Look at the herd animals videos - big strong buck fighting next strongest buck and who is actually mating with the does in the background?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 11:29 AM

Actually there is a point - in a sense quite different from what Eliza says above.

Women are indoctrinated, from the moment they can begin to understand, that nice girls don't.

Therefore, in order to have an excuse to do what nice girls don't (without feeling guilty that they did a bad thing), they fixate on the excuse that they are under a spell, controlled, misled, a victim of a force of nature.

Enter the bad boy...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 11:37 AM

I believe 'users' (of both sexes) are known as sociopaths. They are very skilled at manipulating, lying and being charming in order to further their ends. Just like the cat described by leeneia. I agree, Seaham Cemetery, that disparity in a couple is not necessarily a disaster, but I gathered were talking about real 'bad lots', which I'm sure describes neither you or your wife. I've seen arrogant, uncaring, disrespectful men (and women) attracting the most pleasant and sweet partners. I feel GUEST is correct in that there must be some influence of biology at play, where a strong male (even if he's aggressive, nasty and a bully) was in primitive times a good idea to protect ones family from attack. But we don't live in the Stone Age now. The trouble is, no matter what you do or say, you won't persuade the woman to give up on him and leave, until maybe she ends up penniless, or in hospital (or worse). I've worked with the Friends (Quakers) in helping prisoners' wives & families, and the grief, pain and distress some of these Bad Lots cause is unbelievable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 01:25 PM

My grandson is 13, tall, good looking and a nice kid. He had a crush on a girl at school, who told him that, while she liked him, she preferred another boy who was, as she put it, 'more bad' than Lewis. It starts early, it seems.

I grew up scared of a verbally abusive, domineering, alcoholic father and went on, for quite a long time, to choose domineering/alcoholic men as partners, men who would put me down in one way or another, as did my own father. It wasn't until I trained as a Victim Support volunteer that I started to understand the motivation behind my choices and, also, that I always ended up with partners who were not as intelligent as I am and who, looking back, had to assert control because of that. Now I am married to a man who appreciates what I bring to the relationship, doesn't feel threatened by my being bright and makes me feel that I am really loved for myself, not for what a man wants me to be.

I agree with Eliza - therapy and self-knowledge are the only hope for women (or men) in these situations. Other wise you just keep on with what you see as the norm, what you have been conditioned to expect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 01:50 PM

There is a super book called 'Women Who Love Too Much' by a Californian therapist, Robin Norwood. The women you're concerned about, Joe, may find it enlightening. The trouble is that this sort of life choice gets more and more chaotic as it spirals out of control. Relationships fold, the next one is even more dysfunctional, the man even more toxic, until those involved are very sick indeed. And a female 'rescuer' is always finding no-hopers to 'save', as they're thick on the ground these days.
Most therapists understand the dynamics, so it should be fairly straightforward to get advice and help if a woman has this tendency.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 02:36 PM

"Of course, not all women fall for the game, but it takes some awareness & resistance to opt out of it."

Hmmm, in my experience women play "the game" much more expertly than men.
The female "victims" are few, and even their "victimhood" can be part of the game plan.
Women usually know exactly what they want and how to get it, they are more intelligent regarding the selection of partners, men are usually only interested in "availability".


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 03:32 PM

Women with damaged minds can indeed be manipulative in order to get what they think they want or need akenaton. Particularly mentally, socially or financially needy women, who can latch on to a man like a leech. I expect they use sexual attraction with which to reel him in. There are users and abusers of both genders. I often reflect that part of the problem is that young people can't seem to be alone. They aren't at ease with themselves and need constant company and support or they fold. When I'd learnt to be on my own, independent and strong all by myself, I was in a much better position from which to select a good partner and send the beasties packing. Many folk think 'anyone is better than no-one'. It just isn't true. Perhaps a whole year minimum of celibacy and exploration of ones own interests and personality is a good idea in order to produce a sensible and sane person, capable of choosing a good partner!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 03:32 PM

It is two sides of the same coin...the women and men in this scenario are playing complementary roles, and both must bear responsibility. In case of lack of education, not high intelligence, background of poverty, it is understandable for either party. Selecting a bad man, even if he is the last man on earth, is a moral choice and hopefully one they are still preaching against. When I was growing up, one thing that made sense about a very restrictive religion was that you had an obligation to be a decent person. And furthermore, you had an obligation to marry a decent person. This was drilled into us. A number of loser men could shape up if they received no companionship, sex etc...now some ..the true sociopaths..can probably not. The best a woman can do is avoid them..flee from them. Never ever let them move in with you, especially if you have daughters (or sons) because often this is a recipe for pedophilia. One thing as a society we should do is have dormitories for men down on their luck, as well as women, so they do not have the financial pressure of looking for a roof over their heads by manipulating a woman (or man). Each person should have the knowledge that there is safe and warm shelter and a leftover school lunch waiting at all times...

Anyway, do not let women off the hook in this scenario. They have the responsibility, especially if present or future children are involved, to make sure the men they are with are safe and at the very least non exploitive and non abusive. It does not mean they have to be the breadwinner, or that a woman can not choose to support a decent, non-exploitive man..whatever works for them...but perhaps churches, AA meetings etc. should address this more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 03:44 PM

I didn't mean to imply that there was anything "wrong" with women who play "the game" Eliza, often they are not even conscious of their part in "the game"

It is natural selection at work....women have the brains, men have the "willies".....they work well on their own, but are seldom found in the same bed   :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Joe_F
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 03:46 PM

Here's a just-so story: If you're a gene cluster, there is one obvious way to increase the probability that the man you are in will make you prosper in the next generation: make him want to cherish a woman long enough to have some children. There have to be a lot of such men for the race to survive. But if there are a lot of those, then there is another program that will get you descendents in the next generation: be mean & parasitical; fool women, fuck them, and forget them. That requires you to inhibit your empathy, but so what? Now suppose you are a gene cluster in a woman. There are two kinds of men you might program your host to pursue, etc., etc.

That isn't a theory, but it's a notion of the kind of thing you have to expect to happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 04:24 PM

Women (and men too of course) do indeed have the responsibility of choosing a good partner. But quite a few people are not capable of that, due to their own personality defects. They perhaps have no solid, strong base within themselves to do the 'right thing', and instead are driven irresistibly by unhealthy neediness. It's not helpful to say one 'ought' to select well. Sometimes one is careering down a mad path out of control of oneself, and addicted to a violent, feckless, drunken sociopathic, or immature 'mate'. I've had very sad conversations with some lassies (prisoners' girlfriends for example), who just bleated, "But I looooove him!" when the bruises and betrayals kept on coming. They seemed totally powerless to end their attachment. One must actively seek help in the form of therapy in order to break the spell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Allan C.
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 04:49 PM

Thanks in no small part to beauty & fashion magazines with their airbrushed complexions zillion dollar gowns on their emaciated bodies, many women go through life feeling inferior and not nearly beautiful. Hollywood does its part to reinforce such feelings. I believe that it is largely due to the resulting low self-esteem that many women underestimate their worth in terms of what sort of man they might interest. If these women keep their expectations and their standards relatively low, then they thwart what they see as the potential for rejection from men who are from farther up the food chain. -- Just a theory


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:00 PM

Joe, A young woman I know was with a guy I didn't think was good enough for her. A tattooed kickboxer who hadn't finished high school. I "liked" the relationship as you did.

They have since broken up. He now owns a gym and has give a job to her nephew and offered one to her sister.

C'est la vie say the old folks!
It goes to show you never can tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 05:50 PM

"Women usually know exactly what they want and how to get it..."

Oh really, ake? You wouldn't want to over-generalize, would you? I suggest you take a big, anonymous survey. You might be surprised how frustrating and complicated many women find it to establish a good relationship.... or even to define what one is!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 06:26 PM

Oh I wouldn't be at all surprised Bill, relationships ARE complicated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 06:52 PM

Some are, some aren't.

There are no rules about these kind of things. Except maybe that we tend to repeat what we've done before, for good or ill.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 09:47 PM

Love is easy. A relationship is hard work!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Janie
Date: 25 Feb 14 - 11:55 PM

Love is easy. A relationship is hard work!

Well said, Jack.

I don't quite understand why the references acknowledging that men also make "bad" choices in relationships that are made in this thread are so often in parentheses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:10 AM

I think the "Ladies Love Outlaws" song explains a lot. Thanks for posting the lyrics, pdq. I think I've heard the song before, but hadn't paid attention to it. I found recordings by Tom Rush, by Waylon Jennings...and by The Everly Brothers.

Both of my young woman friends are intelligent, and both are resourceful enough to have raised children on their own, working hard to support their children. But both have lives that are tedious, and they dream of adventure. Their lives sound very much like stereotypical country songs.

I know I can't intervene or say anything, but my heart aches for these wonderful women. So I'm just their friend, and they appreciate that.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 09:12 AM

Hey, I wasn't being flip.

Yes, people who want to be happy long-term need to realize that it's very rarely about 'adventure'. And that can be hard to accept.

But there is also, in my opinion, a real scarcity of mature, centered, good men such as one finds in Joe Offer and other members of this community. Life can be tedious AND full, AND good and fun, and satisfying. But until you find the partner with whom this can happen, all kinds of "bad" (wink to Janie) choices will be made.

It's like food (yes, it always comes back to food with me : ). Yes, broccoli is good for you. And steamed fish. But Doritos are margaritas are SOOOOO much more satisfying.... in the moment. A middle ground is needed, but hard to find in the morass of getting-through-each-day, which make simple good-and-bad decisions so hard to make well.

Dani


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 10:05 AM

Janie, I put my own remarks about men making bad choices too in parentheses because the thread title specifically concentrates on 'girls'.
I remember when I was young (hundreds of years ago!) viewing 'bad' men as rather romantic. They had adventures, went a bit wild and fought boldly with other chaps, being fearless and brave. They seemed more sexy than a man who would listen, help do the dishes and never take risks. And I found 'needy' down-on-their-luck poor men pitiable; they awakened in me a desire to help them. (Typical rescuer). I can really relate to young women who feel the same attractions. The whole idea shifts drastically when one considers the same men as potential husbands and fathers. Where children are concerned, losers and baddies are no good at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:34 PM

I don't know why some women are attracted to dodgy guys, but I do tend to think there's an element of biology at play (violent, selfish and aggressive traits are after all a considerable part of what has made the human race successful and someone's got to have the babies of the arseholes who carry those genes).

I'm not too sure it's a 'programming' thing at all, I've known enough girls from nice quiet stable homes who fancy quite the opposite of what they've been exposed to during their upbringing (usually called 'rebellion'), while I on the other hand - having experienced violent abuse in childhood, a string of losers that my mother had relationships with, and drug and alcohol dependency among close family members - have only ever found really nice sensitive and kind men appealing..


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:42 PM

I do think that young women use "bad boys" as a surrogate for what they are afraid to do....but they should be told if you choose a drug-user, it is pretty much the same as if you were using the drugs yourself...if you choose someone violent, you share in the responsibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 02:54 PM

Following from the 'carrying the genes forward' point, if you scratch just a little beneath the surface of who we imagine ourselves to be, I suppose it's not too far off the mark to consider the thought that our individual happiness - or indeed security - isn't necessarily the driving force - or even close - behind what truly biologically and psychologically motivates any of us to do anything. Take having children for starters; Would anyone have children if not for the accidents of sex for pleasure, or the biological craving were not hardwired into us? Who would imagine that a screaming bundle of puke and shit would be a genuinely great life enhancing idea?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 03:04 PM

Dani, Your post tickles my mind.

Oh Baby, I got what you want.
I am the real thing and not just a taunt!

I'll give you adventure and look after you
Give me a try and here's what I'll do

Give me a try and here's what I'll be
I'll be you're weekend Doritos
and you weekday Broc o leeeeeeeeee!!!

Than' yuh thanyuh veruh much!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 03:06 PM

OTOH

I know a couple of single moms, who want the love of a child but who are unwilling to put up with childishness in a man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why are girls drawn to losers?
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 26 Feb 14 - 03:11 PM

Dani, hmm I must be extra boring; nice men over 'bad' ones AND steamed broccoli over Doritos for me, I love that stuff! A big pile of home-grown steamed spinach (with a little grated Dutch cheese) is even better ;-D


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