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BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama

Songwronger 15 Aug 13 - 11:43 PM
Ebbie 15 Aug 13 - 11:46 PM
Don Firth 16 Aug 13 - 12:03 AM
LadyJean 16 Aug 13 - 12:57 AM
JohnInKansas 16 Aug 13 - 01:26 AM
Little Hawk 16 Aug 13 - 02:48 AM
catspaw49 16 Aug 13 - 04:25 AM
Wesley S 16 Aug 13 - 08:21 AM
Wesley S 16 Aug 13 - 08:31 AM
Greg F. 16 Aug 13 - 09:25 AM
Bobert 16 Aug 13 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,DMcG 16 Aug 13 - 02:50 PM
GUEST 16 Aug 13 - 03:32 PM
gnu 16 Aug 13 - 03:59 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 16 Aug 13 - 04:26 PM
akenaton 16 Aug 13 - 04:57 PM
Don Firth 16 Aug 13 - 07:33 PM
Bobert 16 Aug 13 - 07:43 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Aug 13 - 08:02 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 16 Aug 13 - 08:05 PM
Bobert 16 Aug 13 - 08:11 PM
gnu 16 Aug 13 - 08:42 PM
gnu 16 Aug 13 - 08:48 PM
Bobert 16 Aug 13 - 08:53 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 16 Aug 13 - 10:46 PM
Songwronger 16 Aug 13 - 11:31 PM
Don Firth 17 Aug 13 - 12:07 AM
LadyJean 17 Aug 13 - 12:12 AM
Don Firth 17 Aug 13 - 12:44 AM
GUEST 17 Aug 13 - 04:27 AM
Elmore 17 Aug 13 - 05:35 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 17 Aug 13 - 06:51 AM
GUEST 17 Aug 13 - 11:20 AM
Bobert 17 Aug 13 - 12:42 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 17 Aug 13 - 06:15 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 17 Aug 13 - 06:35 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 17 Aug 13 - 06:38 PM
Don Firth 17 Aug 13 - 07:42 PM
Bobert 17 Aug 13 - 08:06 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 18 Aug 13 - 01:05 PM
Don Firth 18 Aug 13 - 02:18 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 18 Aug 13 - 03:25 PM
Bobert 18 Aug 13 - 07:53 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 19 Aug 13 - 04:36 PM
Bobert 19 Aug 13 - 09:23 PM
Songwronger 20 Aug 13 - 12:01 AM
Bobert 20 Aug 13 - 08:25 AM
Don Firth 20 Aug 13 - 02:11 PM
akenaton 20 Aug 13 - 02:36 PM
Bobert 20 Aug 13 - 03:58 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 20 Aug 13 - 05:28 PM
akenaton 20 Aug 13 - 06:23 PM
Bobert 20 Aug 13 - 07:36 PM
Songwronger 20 Aug 13 - 08:10 PM
Bobert 20 Aug 13 - 08:15 PM
Elmore 20 Aug 13 - 08:39 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 21 Aug 13 - 01:11 AM
Bobert 21 Aug 13 - 08:58 AM
Suzy Sock Puppet 21 Aug 13 - 09:56 AM
akenaton 21 Aug 13 - 11:43 AM
sciencegeek 21 Aug 13 - 01:04 PM
Bobert 21 Aug 13 - 01:08 PM
Songwronger 02 Sep 13 - 09:38 PM
Bobert 02 Sep 13 - 09:57 PM
Songwronger 02 Sep 13 - 10:09 PM
Songwronger 02 Sep 13 - 10:14 PM
Don Firth 02 Sep 13 - 10:14 PM
Don Firth 02 Sep 13 - 10:22 PM
Songwronger 02 Sep 13 - 10:43 PM
Don Firth 02 Sep 13 - 11:08 PM
akenaton 03 Sep 13 - 03:59 AM
Elmore 03 Sep 13 - 10:43 AM
Don Firth 03 Sep 13 - 04:56 PM
Songwronger 03 Sep 13 - 11:57 PM
Little Hawk 04 Sep 13 - 01:00 AM
Songwronger 04 Sep 13 - 10:30 PM
Don Firth 04 Sep 13 - 10:56 PM
Little Hawk 05 Sep 13 - 12:10 AM
Songwronger 12 Feb 14 - 10:38 PM
GUEST,gillymor 12 Feb 14 - 10:52 PM
Amos 12 Feb 14 - 11:17 PM
GUEST 13 Feb 14 - 08:08 AM
Greg F. 13 Feb 14 - 08:35 AM
Wesley S 13 Feb 14 - 10:16 AM
Elmore 13 Feb 14 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,jts 13 Feb 14 - 01:58 PM
Ebbie 13 Feb 14 - 04:01 PM
kendall 13 Feb 14 - 04:35 PM
Songwronger 13 Feb 14 - 08:17 PM
Sawzaw 13 Feb 14 - 11:17 PM
Elmore 14 Feb 14 - 10:25 AM
Greg F. 14 Feb 14 - 10:36 AM
Songwronger 14 Feb 14 - 09:57 PM
Don Firth 14 Feb 14 - 10:14 PM
Elmore 15 Feb 14 - 01:08 AM
GUEST 15 Feb 14 - 09:53 AM
Jack the Sailor 15 Feb 14 - 10:42 AM
GUEST 15 Feb 14 - 10:05 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Feb 14 - 02:21 PM
Jack the Sailor 16 Feb 14 - 02:38 PM
Elmore 17 Feb 14 - 08:50 AM
GUEST 17 Feb 14 - 09:10 AM
Elmore 17 Feb 14 - 10:37 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Feb 14 - 11:33 AM
Greg F. 17 Feb 14 - 12:08 PM
GUEST 17 Feb 14 - 05:41 PM
Sawzaw 19 Feb 14 - 12:03 PM
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Jack the Sailor 19 Feb 14 - 01:37 PM
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Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Feb 14 - 02:02 PM
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Sawzaw 21 Feb 14 - 04:57 PM
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Don Firth 23 Feb 14 - 03:15 PM
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Subject: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 11:43 PM

GOP lawmaker: House has votes to impeach Obama 'tomorrow'

GOP Rep. Blake Farenthold (Texas) said House Republicans have enough votes to impeach President Obama, but warned the effort to remove him from office would be unsuccessful and could damage the country.

"If we were to impeach the president tomorrow, you could probably get the votes in the House of Representatives to do it," Farenthold said at an Aug. 10 town-hall meeting.

In a video of the event, Farenthold is shown responding to a constituent who asked if he would support an investigation into whether Obama forged his birth certificate.

Farenthold initially expressed regret that Congress did not more closely examine Obama's eligibility for the presidency during the 2008 campaign, and then sought to explain why Republicans had not pursued impeachment.

The Texas lawmaker said the country would be harmed if the House voted to impeach Obama but the Democratic-controlled Senate failed to remove him from office.

"What message do we send to America if we impeach Obama and he gets away with what he's impeached for and is found innocent?" Farenthold said.

Farenthold pointed to the failed effort to remove then-President Clinton from office in 1998.

"As a result of impeaching President Clinton, we've redefined what sex is to a lot of our young people, and we've said that it's OK to lie to Congress," warned Farenthold....

http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/316649-gop-lawmaker-house-has-votes-to-impeach-obama-tomorrow

Forget the birth certificate. Obama's violated his oath to the constitution hundreds of times. Prosecute him for his treasons and murders. Clinton was an arch criminal, but they dogged him over a blowjob. Obama's an enemy of the republic, but they (even his Republican "opponents") act like the birth certificate is the only thing they could pursue. We have a one-party system pretending to be two-party.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 11:46 PM

"What message do we send to America if we impeach Obama and he gets away with what he's impeached for and is found innocent?" Farenthold said."


hahahhahah You are so funny.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 12:03 AM

Songwronger, you're sick.

Get help!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: LadyJean
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 12:57 AM

In 1998 I made myself a promise. I will vote Democratic. I will vote Green. I will vote Socialist. I will vote Raging Rhino, if someone organizes a branch of the Raging Rhino Party in the states. But I will NEVER vote for a Republican again. My parents and grandparents were Republicans. But their party is gone. The Republican Party is no longer the Party of Lincoln, they are the party of Nixon.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 01:26 AM

Medications could help.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 02:48 AM

Obama isn't the problem, SW, he's just the temporary figurehead for the angry people who don't like him and the Obama supporters who do like him to focus on, which is what most presidents are and have been in the past. They're figureheads. And he IS temporary. Keep that in mind. The corrupt system of ruling elites that controls him and controls BOTH of the 2 big parties and the main media outlets is NOT temporary, and it is unassailable through the ballot box.

The 2 big parties are quite different from one another...in style, belief, and rhetoric...because that is how the public can be most easily divided into 2 powerless and irreconcilable blocs of fearful, confused, angry people who hate and despise and constantly denigrate one another over their differing party loyalties. That keeps them distracted, which is the point of why it's done that way.

Their perpetually divided state ensures that the system of rich elites which rules over them remains, in effect, invisible to them and unassailable.

If Obama were removed from office it would not solve the problems facing the nation any more than removing Mubarak or Morsi has solved the problems facing Egypt! It's not a question of removing one man, because the one man isn't responsible for the situation, and he will just be replaced quickly by some other man. It is the system of elites itself that must be removed to alter the situation.

Who are those elites? They are the richest billionaires, bankers, CEOs of the biggest corporations, top military people, and top intelligence community people (such as in the CIA). You can't touch them through the ballot box. Obama is not in charge of them. They are in charge of him...and they would eliminate him right quick if he attempted to change anything fundamental in terms of the present ruling systems of power and control....or if he even talked openly about doing so.

It's an oligarchy, not a democracy. Obama is not the problem. Replacing him would change practically nothing in any real sense. Impeaching him would be a meaningless partisan exercise that would accomplish nothing except to replace him with another so-called "leader" to blame everything on, which would again miss the point entirely. The "leader" is not the problem. The system itself is the problem, and you cannot vote it in or out of office as things stand.

Nor can you bring it down through armed resistance, because it's too well armed for that.

What you can do is stop believing in it. That's step 1. Without step 1, step 2, 3 or 4 in bringing it down can't even happen. Millions of people must first stop believing in and being fooled by the overall ruling system before anything significant can be changed.

And that's very difficult to accomplish. But it's not impossible. And no bloodshed is needed to do it. Nonviolent resistance, in fact, is the only sane way possible to end that system as far as I'm concerned, but it would have to be action taken simultaneously by many millions of people to succeed.

I don't much expect to see that happen. The chances appear slim. But it still might happen...eventually. It depends on how bad things get and how long people remain asleep.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 04:25 AM

Said it before Hawk.......The only way to break any political methodology is through revolution. Ain't gonna' happen for quite awhile though but it is at least developing. Til then I just try to put any effort I have into making it better however futile.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:21 AM

What a bunch of crybabies. What I don't understand about the Impeach Obama crowd is what they hope to gain. Even if he was impeached the result would be - President Joe Biden. Do they think that President Biden would be a massive improvement over Obama?

Their "cause" would be better served if they stopped their whining - put on their big boy panties - and put their energy into electing a candidate they approved of. Ted Cruz? Rand Paul?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:31 AM

Oh - and what the House does on it's own is meaningless. They've already voted to repeal Obamacare { AKA the Affordable Healthcare Act } no less than 40 times.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 09:25 AM

Another Texas asshole of assholes. Who cares?

The Repubs ain't the party of Nixon. Nixon was a criminal and a slimeball, but he DID have a brain.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 09:43 AM

Nothing that this corrupt Republican House of Representatives does surprises me anymore... Nothing!!!

They hate America and do everything they can to make it fail so, hey, impeachment ain't much different...

Actually, I wish they would try it... Or do it... That would be the straw that broke the camel's back and make that 7% that the Dems have to win by in the popular vote in order to overcome the most gerrymandered House in over a century look do-able...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST,DMcG
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 02:50 PM

To make things worse, these people don't even understand what a birth certificate is: they behave as if it is a piece of paper (and so easily forgeable), whereas in fact it is one tiny element of a huge interconnected bureaucratic system with, for example, sequential reference numbers that can't be altered without impacting things around them, in computer systems with historical backups and lots of people involved. "Forgery" is a completely irrelevant activity in that context, and so easy to expose that it wouldn't last more than a few hours before it was exposed. Of course, one alternative would be to use some existing birth certificate for a real person. In which case why not pick someone whose families had been in some mid state for generations?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 03:32 PM

Obama is actually a Chinese sent to completely fuck the USA and Texas. He has no real birth certificate, but if you look near the right side of his asshole you can find the serial number. From there trace it to the point of manufacture and that is all you have to do. Ten digit serial numbers ending in 123 were made in Afghanistan.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: gnu
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 03:59 PM

JiK... "Medications could help."

I think yer gonna need a heavy medication. Say, an eight pound maul and as many doses in rapid succession as possible?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 04:26 PM

Little Hawk nails it as usual.

Don being mean and judgmental towards Songwronger again. Shocked and saddened I am. Shocked and saddened. Awk!


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 04:57 PM

If Mr Obama was to be impeached, surely it would be for his tacit support of the Egyptian Military Coup and the murder of hundreds of unarmed civilians.
I cant believe the hypocrits are going to keep supplying billions of dollars in aid and arms to a regime which has just overthrown an elected govt and committed murder of hundreds of civilians in full view of the world.

Doesn't this shake the faith in "democracy" of the Mudcat "liberals".
Yes I mean you Bobad!.....and the rest!


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 07:33 PM

Suzy Sock Puppet, what inspires me to be "mean and judgmental towards Songwronger again," as you put it, is Songwronger's obsessive hatred for President Obama, and his compulsion to post some new and scurrilous attack on him almost every day.

Most of what he posts is from extreme Right Wing websites, the same kind that started out by beating the "birther" drum, claiming that Obama is a Muslim, was born in Kenya, and all that.

When I see a thread title like the above, it doesn't take much to figure out right off who started it.

It's rampant misinformation, it's an egregious waste of space, and it gets bloody tiresome!

Now, I'm not entirely thrilled with what President Obama has been able to accomplish while in office. But I'm also aware of the kind of vicious opposition he's had to try to buck, and it's promulgated by people like Songwronger.

If anybody is "mean" here, it's Songwronger.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 07:43 PM

What Don says...

The wrongman is the Grand Wizard of MudKK...

Nothing but hatred... What next will wrongman do here... Burn a few crosses???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:02 PM

How many times does it need to be said - it wouldn't make any difference where Obama was born, because it wouldn't alter the fact that he's a natural born American by virtue of his mother.

My impression from here is that Nixon would be repudiated as a "liberal" by much of your Republican party.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:05 PM

Funny, I did not take him for a right-winger. You sure about that?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:11 PM

Yes, Suzy...

I've been around here a long time... I am a 60s radical... I am a leftist...

Wrongman has only one story: Hate Obama...

Click on his name and see his history here... One Obama hate thread after another... I don't think he has ever started a thread that wasn't about Obama hatred...

Square business...

The guy is eat up with Obama hate...

Oh... He tries to paint himself as some leftist revolutionary... BS... I am a leftist revolutionary and he ain't one of us...

He is the KKK...

And you can take that to the bank...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: gnu
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:42 PM

Impeach Obama?

Thank goodness history didn't repeat itself eh? Oh... yeah... sheeeit!


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: gnu
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:48 PM

That fucker Ronnie stole untold $. Bush pulled the same scam. And the same bunch a dickwads wanna bend over Obama?

Sommat just ain't right in some people's heads.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 08:53 PM

Thank you, Gn-ze...

Yes, Reagan is the crook of all crooks...

Too bad that the Republicans knew this so they "Rove'd" him into St. Ronnie... Yup, this has Karl Rove drippin' from it... Attack your enemies strengths and take your guys weaknesses and turn them into strengths...

Reagan is the worst president since Hoover... Busted the American Labor Movement and spent like a drunken sailor leaving the largest deficit ever recorded by a non-post-war president in the history of the United States...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 10:46 PM

Definitely with Reagan, things started to spiral downwards. Rich getting richer.And the poor? You know the deal. He undid victories that were hard won. Big fat downer indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Aug 13 - 11:31 PM

I'm a moderate. Obama is an extremist. Bobert's an extremist.

Some reasons to impeach Obama:

252 Well-Sourced Obama "Issues"

Every president I've lived under in my life should have been impeached. They all violated their oaths to the constitution.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 12:07 AM

Just like I said:   Right Wing websites, blogs, and all of that.

In my e-mail every morning I get a number of politically oriented newsletters of all persuasions because I like to keep up on who's saying what about whom and which. The sort of stuff Songwronger posts comes from extreme Right Wing sources, particularly any piece that attempts to trash President Obama.

Songwronger is not the only one in the world. There are lots of people out there who--frankly, I think, are more upset by Obama's race than by his political policies. But they haven't the guts to admit that that is why they hate him so much.

If they react this way to the first Black president, think of how they will respond to the first woman president!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: LadyJean
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 12:12 AM

I was born in the city of Pittsburgh, daughter of a lawyer and a lawyer's daughter. I lived the first 31 years of my life without owning a copy of my birth certificate. I found out I didn't have one when I applied for a passport.
I then went through beurocratic runaround as only the Commonwealth of Pennsyvlania can do it, and got a copy. The original is lodged someplace in some file, somewhere.

Oh, by the way, to get a U.S. Passport you have to show a birth certificate. To get a Pennsylvania driver's license you have to produce one. I figured Mr. Obama must have had to produce his a couple of dozen times before he even thought of running for president.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 12:44 AM

When the "birthers" started their campaign against Obama, he produced his birth certificate. The birthers had a wall-eyed fit and wouldn't accept it because it said "Certificate of Live Birth" at the top.

"That," they said, "is not a birth certificate!!" and redoubled their rants.

The Governor of Hawaii said that "that IS the official birth certificate of the State of Hawaii!"

But that didn't stop the birthers. They just ignored the governor and went right on with their slanders.

Even if Obama hadn't been born in the United States (and Hawaii is the fiftieth state), it wouldn't have made any difference, even if he had been born in Kenya or Indonesia as some of the birthers try to claim, because his mother, born in the state of Kansas, IS and American citizen. And the child of an American citizen is automatically a citizen, no matter where they are born.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 04:27 AM

I'm with Don Firth, Bobert and Little Hawk on this. My current bottom line (one of them, anyway) is that I'm thankful we aren't invading other countries for no reason whatsoever. I'm also glad Halliburton is out of the White House. I'm glad we're moving in the right direction with regards to marriage rights. It's nice as a country to not be the object of scorn of much of the world. It's nice to have someone in the White House whose motto isn't "Ready, Fire, Aim."


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 05:35 AM

Impeach Obama. Right. Go for it. Then President Clinton will have majorities in both the House and the Senate. Cool.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 06:51 AM

In reality, the House "has enough votes to impeach" a president at any time the House majority and the president are of opposing parties. A bill of impeachment only requires approval by a simple majority (50%+1) of House members. If that were all that was involved in an impeachment, ousting presidents for purely partisan reasons would be a commonplace occurrence.

The reason impeachment happens so rarely (only twice in 200+ years, and neither case resulting in conviction) is that the second part of the process, the actual trial, takes place in the Senate, where conviction requires approval by a 2/3 majority of senators. Getting 66 of 100 senators to vote for removal of a president is almost impossible unless there is clear evidence of criminal wrongdoing. The only time in US history there has been enough evidence that a conviction was likely, the miscreant resigned from office instead of facing impeachment.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 11:20 AM

Should read 67 of 100 senators.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 12:42 PM

With the wacko TeaKK'ers on the House of Reps here is a list of other things they may be considering:

1. Outlawing the Democratic Party...

2. Declaring the earth to be flat...

3. Making vaccines illegal...

4. Making it a crime to contract cancer...

5. Killing all renewable energy...

6. Declaring war on sanity...

7. Repealing the American Constitution...

8. Appointing Rush Limbaugh King...

9. Seceding from the United Sates and...

...10. Declaring NASCAR the national sport...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 06:15 PM

Bee-dubya-ell, thanks for the info. Songwronger, you are right! They are all in violation. Can you say Military-Industrial Complex? Pentagon, that's who's in charge of the Executive Branch.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 06:35 PM

Hey Songwronger, what think you of this?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 06:38 PM

Oops! I meant to click the blicky and mindlessly hit submit. Here it is:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA–al-Qaeda_controversy


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 07:42 PM

I recommend that one read the whole link, including "Opposing View."

These are the things that Songwronger generally leaves out.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Aug 13 - 08:06 PM

The wrongman does NOT do the whole story, Don... He'll take 5% + his right winged Republican blogs and create an entire parallel universe of mythology...

But looks as if he has lured Suzy Sock Puppet6 into his lure...

Yes, the House of Representatives, with their TeaKK contingency, have the votes to pass nay stupid thing they want...

Here's food for thought, Suze... Guess which party carried the popular vote for the House of Representatives national wide in the last election??? And then look at the composition of the House... Where is the "democracy" in that... Maybe you are okay with rigged elections... I am not...

BTW, worngman is perfectly happy with rigged elections... He has never complained about minority tyranny...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 01:05 PM

Nah. No one has lured me. Besides, I'm much more fond of you.

Not happy with the Pentagon but I have come to feel bad for the president. I've never seen any president given such a hard time as this one. George Bush was a clown and still got his propers. This one has to endure open disrespect which I interpret as racism. And now, back on health care again! Unbelievable. It is THEIR plan! It just goes to show that he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 02:18 PM

Sounds like you've nailed it, Suzy.

I've been inhabiting this planet for some time now, and I don't think I've ever seen any president treated in as downright nasty and obstructionist a fashion as the Republicans are treating Obama.

With the possible exception of Franklin D. Roosevelt, who, although he was wealthy himself, cared about people and the country as a whole, put people back to work with the WPA, the CCC, and other agencies, and basically ended the Great Depression, brought on in the first place by the Republican policy of allowing the Robber Barons to do anything they wanted, and started a bunch of regulatory agencies, such as the Securities and Exchange Commission that required Wall Street and its mignons to behave themselves, stop playing Robin Hood in reverse and ripping people off. They hated FDR because he was for the people in general, not just the fat-cats.

Obama is no FDR, unfortunately, but he's doing his best. But--of course, getting stonewalled at every turn.

Impeach Obama? No! Throw most of Congress out and get in some decent people who CARE about the people, not just the bloated rich!

And in addition to Obama's being a Democrat and trying to initiate some programs that will allow the United States to catch up with the rest of the civilized world--such as a decent health care program--one of the reasons many people are against him is they can't stand the thought of some uppity XXXXXX in the White House!

If they react this way to him, how do you think they might react to a Democrat who happens to be a woman running the country?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 03:25 PM

I for one hope that there will be a Democrat who happens to be a woman running the country. I've been a longtime admirer of both Clintons. If she gets in there, she's going to be tough!

Even as the 2008 "economic crisis" was unfolding (and they were looting the coffers), Bill was making television appearances, explaining what should be done for Americans and a lot of it was based on FDR strategy during the depression. We can learn from history right? But the people who are dead set on pushing this country in the wrong direction, don't want to know about any of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 13 - 07:53 PM

Well, shucks, mam... Sniff...

(Eat your heart out wrongman...)

***grin***

Yeah, Obama has seen the greatest level of obstructionism and hatred since Abraham Lincoln had to deal with the Southern Democrats back in 1860...

Is it racism??? Well, yeah, it is...

But it goes beyond just racism...

The 1% are scared that their ballgame will be called... They have rigged the game so that if productivity of workers increases then the 1% takes all the increased profits... The working class has not seen a real increase in wages (after inflation) since 1983... Hmmmmm??? What happened in 1983??? Oh, that's right... Ronald Reagan became president... Well, what did Ronnie do??? He used the full force of the federal government to bust the Air Traffic Controllers Union which was like waving a big green flag for the 1% to bust unions and they have busted unions down from 30% in 1982 down to about 6% today...

End result: The 1% has its boot heels on the American worker...

What's next??? Those who know history know exactly what is next...

The American Spring...

Wronger and all of his right wing buddies won't change that no matter how much hate they heap on Obama...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 04:36 PM

Bobert, I saw my friend Rev. Murray today. He didn't know if anything was happening on the 28th (probably not if he doesn't know about it) but roped me into church this Sunday and told me to bring my grandson who was with me at the time. I'll probably take him. Rev says they got kids there for him to play with (yes, he did say play :-) Going to church isn't necessarily fun but it is in a black church. Lots of music. Ever been?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 13 - 09:23 PM

Well, Suze... Just Google up Trayvon Martin Protest _________________ (your closest city)...

I thought that a lot of these were going to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Dr, King's "I Have a Dream" speech???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 12:01 AM

Punk rocker Glenn Danzig just came out with this statement about Obama and Democrats in general: "My view on Democrats is that they're fascists disguised as liberals, or liberal moderates. You're not allowed to say anything that they don't agree with. You're not allowed to do anything. Also, the whole Obama, 'I can kill anybody with a drone with no trial,' is kind of disturbing. I'm surprised that more people who are supposedly liberal aren't more disturbed by it. I think whatever Obama does is OK with them, because he's Obama. It's bulls–t."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/08/19/danzig-liberals-fascists

If anyone doubts that Democrats have turned into fascists like Danzig describes, read some of Herr Bobert's ravings.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:25 AM

Hahahahahaha....

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 02:11 PM

Songwronger, for Chrissake, get a good textbook on political philosophy and read it!

You are displaying your total ignorance of the field. You obviously don't even know what the words mean!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 02:36 PM

I tend to agree with most of the comments in Songwronger's link.

Tho' I think most of the folks here are basically socialist, they are afraid of the term and cleave to what they see as the lesser of two evils ....Mr Obama and the Democrats; this leads them up the blind alley of support for a govt who's foreign policy is the exact opposite of liberalism.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 03:58 PM

I'm a socialist, Ake... I think the United Sates could kick some serious ass in terms of providing for its people if it were a socialist country... The capitalists are crooks and corrupt...

It is naive, however, to put this on Obama... Capitalism went haywire in 1982 in electing the biggest loser president in the last, well, maybe for ever... Ronald Reagan did not have one original thought in his senile head... He was nothing but a union busting corporate pig...

Since his election and his waving the green flag on union busting (remember the Air Traffic Controllers Union?) the working class has been stuck treading water... Or drowning...

You seem to give Obama a lot of power to overturn a 30 year war on the working class... Where's the magic wand that you must think that Obama has that can pull off that miracle???

I like you Ake but when it comes to your knowledge of American history, American government or American politics, you are eat up ignorant... Much like the wrongman...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 05:28 PM

As I said before, the Pentagon runs the executive branch and there is only so much Obama can do to change the agenda that was already in place, courtesy of his predecessors. I'm pretty disappointed in Obama for what I perceive to be him not fighting hard enough to change things -and I'm not alone- but I'll still cut him slack before someone like George Bush (Dick Cheney). I honestly think the president is a figure head nowadays so why blame Obama?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 06:23 PM

I think you misunderstand me Bobert, I don't really blame Mr Obama(except for the drone strikes), If you remember, before his first term, I called Mr Obama "a creature of the system" a Chicago lawyer steeped in Democratic politics...a supporter of corporate Capital, just as any President of the US, or Prime Minister of the UK must be.

The fault is not with him personally, as Susy says, he is only a figure head, but I am disappointed in the folks who have obvious socialist views, yet are so easily led down the capitalist path.

Some here and in the country, thought that the mans colour would affect his political views, but I'm sorry old pal politics just don't work like that.

I've always had a lot of respect for you Bob,I love your straight forward manner and how you get up and shake yer stick at the world....keep well..A


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 07:36 PM

I disagree, Ake...

Obama is an outsider... He didn't party when he was Senator... Might of fact, he lived in his office... He slept in his office... He read bills... He had long discussions laying on his couch and allowed everyone in the room to pontificate on their positions... He listened... This is the real Obama...

That's part of his problem... He doesn't play the "inside the beltway" game... He doesn't much play any games... What you see is what you get... That's what I like about him...

In spite of that, he understands that his powers are limited... He has rocked the boat about as much as any president could do... Do you remember when he went to the Republican caucus and spent an entire day allowing them to blast away at him with their best and he stood there before them for hours and hours, took their best, and had the intelligence and vision to hang with them and more... That's balls, dude...

No Republican would have ever even thought of doing that...

Yeah, with BIG MEDIA being owned by the Republicans all we are getting is their story, their spin, their propaganda... We aren't getting much in the way of defense of what Obama has done under the most hostile opposition party since 1860 when Abraham Lincoln had to take on the Southern Democrats...

Guess what the Republicans and BIG MEDIA are saying tonight???

Give???

"Obama hates white people"???

Guess he hated his mom???

Nah, historians will get this one right... Right now we are being ***ruled*** by the right wing and they own BIG MEDIA so all we are getting is 100% USDA Choice right wing bullshit about Obama...

And in the words of the late Walter Cronkite, "And that's the way it is..."

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:10 PM

Fascist is as fascist does, and Obama does all he can to help the moneyed elite. As president he could forgive all student loans tomorrow. But he won't. In fact, interest on student loans just doubled. On Obama's watch.

Obama's a tool of the elite, and the elite are presently in the process of taking back all the money they've invested in the U.S. over the past 60 years. Obama is assisting them.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:15 PM

The biggest fascist in Mudcat weigh in...

Yawn...

Oh, and get some counseling... You are sick...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:39 PM

Attn: Songwronger. Christian Science Monitor Aug 10, 2013. President signs bill lowering student loans.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:11 AM

Bobert, akenaton and Songwronger have made some very good points. Obama does uphold the corporate system. That's not representing the people. On the other hand, a resident is probably only as good as his advisors.

And what about Joe Biden? Biden spent 36 years in the Senate and Obama spent a mere 2 years. Who do you think is really advising Obama behind the scenes?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 08:58 AM

Biden rocks...

If he runs, I will work in his campaign...

Can he single-handedly drive a stake thru the heart of the US oligarchy as many Obama haters blame Obama for not doing??? No, he can't... But seems that everyone else out there running are 100% oligarchs... Especially those of the Tea Party...

BTW, the Tea Party folks want you to believe that they are just regular folks... Wrong... They are the most wealthy House freshmen class ever elected with an average new worth of $1.4M...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 09:56 AM

What about Hillary? You wouldn't support her?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 11:43 AM

Don't think Hillary wants to change very much regarding corporate Capitalism Suzy, she also has a track record of Hawkishness in foreign policy.

"The Clintons" are another political dynasty....and surely you've had enough of THEM?

Personally I don't think any political leader can break the mould, we need a slow change in perception and expectation from the general public. A realisation, that in the real world "making it big" is not the only way to live a happy and fulfilling life.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: sciencegeek
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:04 PM

Bobart...

we need to remember our history... the Conservative Party is no longer that of William Buckly any more than the current so called Republican Party is that of Lincoln.

What we have are the former Dixiecrats and new age Robber Barons that are using the same BS that got good people who never owned a slave in their lives to fight & die for the plantation owning rich - but thinking that they were fighting for state's rights & personal liberty. Bah!

Lies and misdirection are their tools - the same as those used by every would be tyrant that needs to disrupt the social order to gain control & power.

Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it...


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:08 PM

Suzie,

Support Hillary??? Hell no... I really am no fan of the Clintons... They are power & money hungry... Would I vote for her??? Maybe... I mean, if it's between a whacked out Tea Party candidate, then yeah...

sciencegeek,

10/4... You are preaching to the choir...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 09:38 PM

Supreme Court OKs Obama Impeachment Proceedings

A 12-minute video by a young man who calls himself shakaama. It was made some time ago but is still relevant. Obama's on the verge of impeachment once again. I especially like what shakaama says from about 5:20 to 6:30, listing Obama's good points. lol


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 09:57 PM

Here is my hope, TeaPukes... Just fuckin' do it... Please do it... Do it tomorrow... No, call a special midnight session and do it tonight...

What, you are too busy with your stock brokers???

Come on... Do it tonight...

What, you are too busy kissing Koch brother's asses???

Come on... Do it tonight...

What, you too busy listening to King Rush???

Come on... Do it tonight...

Wimps...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:09 PM

lol. Obama's coming unglued, and so are his followers.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:14 PM

It's interesting how opponents are demonized.

Bobert howls about the Koch brothers, stock brokers and so on, as if they're the only ones against Obama.

Only NINE PERCENT of America approves of the Lunatic in chief's plan to murder Syrian civilians, yet somehow Bobert equates America's desire to jettison this utterly failed piece of shit with some "vast rightwing conspiracy."

Quien mas loco, Bobert o Obama?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:14 PM

What a load of dingo's kidneys!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:22 PM

Songwronger, have you been cowering in a cave for the past few days and missed the fact that President Obama is putting the matter of taking action against Syria before Congress?

Take two aspirin and lay down for awhile! You're drunk on your own hate.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 10:43 PM

He HAS to go to congress. If he had bombed without authorization, he would have been arrested like the common criminal he is.

Of course I hate Obama. Watch the shakaama video. We all have reason to hate Obama. He's an enema of America.

The other day, when Kerry spoke, CNN put him on a delay. CNN is run by the pentagon. The military doesn't trust Kerry enough to give him live airtime. If he had made some crazy statement, he could have been cut off before the message got out to the public.

Everyone hates Obama now. He's still getting some left flank coverage by the race-hate people like you and Bobert, but that's it. Obama's time is over. Where have YOU been for the past couple of years?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Sep 13 - 11:08 PM

Frankly, Songwronger, I think you've got to be from another planet.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 03:59 AM

Sorry Don, but I think SW may be right here.

Mr Obama appears to be ramping up the MO for an attack on Syria to gain the support of right wing Republicans like McCain, to carry the vote in Congress.
He now seems to be promoting himself as a "war leader" to get back some personal credibility. If this is indeed the case, then Mr Obama is not what you and others imagined him to be.

It was supposed to be very limited strikes as a punishment for using chemical weapons(not yet proven), now it begins to feel like all out war, or at least "regime change"

Very dangerous territory!


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 10:43 AM

So,first Congress is going to support the President on Syria (which they will), then they're going to impeach him? Not likely.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 04:56 PM

The French say they will back Obama and the U.S. if Congress gives the okay for military action.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 03 Sep 13 - 11:57 PM

Black American citizens file "Articles of Impeachment" against Obama

The National Black Republican Association (NBRA) based in Sarasota, FL, headed by Chairman Frances Rice, filed Articles of Impeachment against President Barack Obama with the following language:

"We, black American citizens, in order to free ourselves and our fellow citizens from governmental tyranny, do herewith submit these Articles of Impeachment to Congress for the removal of President Barack H. Obama, aka, Barry Soetoro, from office for his attack on liberty and commission of egregious acts of despotism that constitute high crimes and misdemeanors."

ARTICLE 1

He has covered up, delayed, impeded and obstructed the investigation of the Benghazi Battle.

ARTICLE 3

He has authorized and permitted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, a division of the Justice Department, to conduct Operation Fast and Furious, wherein guns were sold to Mexican drug trafficking organizations...

ARTICLE 4

He has authorized and permitted confidential income tax returns information from the Internal Revenue Service to be provided to unauthorized individuals, organizations and agencies....

ARTICLE 6

He has authorized and permitted the National Security Agency to conduct or continue electronic surveillance of over 300 million average Americans...

ARTICLE 7

He has authorized and permitted the Department of Justice to wiretap and secretly obtain two months of telephone and e-mail records of Fox News Reporter James Rosen...

http://watchdogwire.com/florida/2013/08/13/black-american-citizens-file-articles-of-impeachment-against-obama/


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 01:00 AM

Okay, say Obama gets impeached. Successfully.

Then we have Biden as president.

Further major screwups follow. A call is made to impeach Biden!

And it succeeds.

Then what?

Okay then we get some other flunky to take Biden's place.

Further screwups occur.

A call is made to impeach whoever replaced Biden!

Total confusion!

But wait! A saviour steps forward at this time of constitutional crisis! Chongo Chimp announces that HE will take over, disband both the Democratic and Republican parties and make them illegal!!!!!!!!

Hundreds of millions of grateful citizens pour into the streets at this incredibly good news and appoint Chongo the first American Ape Emperor for Life by acclamation!!!!!!!!!!!

Bananas drop by 5 cents a pound!

Mangos aren't allowed into the stores until they are actually RIPE! Jubilation greets this incredible news.

Chongo declares an end to all USA military interventions in any and all foreign nations and starts closing down all USA military bases in foreign lands. Drone strikes cease. The Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines come home....and start doing what they are really there for...protecting the USA itself instead of invading, terrorizing, and fucking up other countries on behalf of big energy corporations.

Chongo shuts down the largest banks, ends fractional reserve lending, nationalizes those banks, and puts the dollar back on the gold and silver standard.

At this point several attempts are made by mysterious persons to assassinate Chongo. They all fail. Chongo promptly arrests 9,000 of the richest bankers and billionares in the USA and sends them to work harvesting bananas in Costa Rica, slaving in the jungle heat for a dollar a day, just like the locals do.

Things start to quiet down stateside....except on Mudcat Cafe, where the same old battles and personal vendettas rage on....and on...and on.

Ah well....even Chongo doesn't have the answer to EVERYTHING! ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 10:30 PM

Yes, Chongo, there is a Satan Clause.

If Obama goes down, Biden will go with him. And the new president would be fascist Speaker of the House John Boehner.

Obama's some kind of Bill Ayers / Charles Manson Communist who uses fascist tactics to accomplish his agenda, but Boehner is a certified fascist. America would fall to the Hitlerites instead of the Hitler Lites, but whattayougonnado?

Obama needs to be impeached. Get rid of the backdoor fascists and then face the ones coming in the front door.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 10:56 PM

Nurse. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 12:10 AM

Aw, heck...an administration of apes is really what's needed to clean up Washington and end these stupid wars. Chimps are smart, so put them in charge of the decision-making. Orangutans are fastidious perfectionists who love Nature, so put them in charge of the environment and the economy. Use the Gorillas and Baboons for security....you'd hardly notice the difference from the way it is at present! ;-D And the monkeys? Well, they could serve as the clerical workers and could also fill out the press corps. Monkeys LOVE asking questions. Imagine the scrum when Chongo meets the press.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 10:38 PM

Bob Barr is campaigning for a return to the House of Representatives. He initiated the impeachment of Bill Clinton. I don't like Barr, but it looks like it'll take a fascist to get rid of a fascist:

ALEX JONES: I think what you're hinting at is if we put you back into Congress, you are going to start investigating bringing charges of impeachment up in the House?

BOB BARR: Alex, I was with some folks just recently and pulled out of a file in my office the House resolution, the House resolution that I introduced on November fifth of 1997 that was the very first official inquiry of impeachment filed against Bill Clinton and that was mine. And at the time I think I had 18 co-sponsors was all, in November of 1997. And what I did is I took that document, figuratively kind of dusted it off, added a little bit of language to it and darned if it doesn't sound pretty good with Barack Obama's name in there.

JONES: Oh man. So I think it's safe to say when you get back in Congress, the evidence is already there, you're going to start looking at the inquiry to begin looking for co-sponsors for indicting the president in the House, and I guess he will be tried in the Senate?

BARR: I think it really has come to that. It's not something I like to say. When I left the House before after we impeached Clinton, you know, my hope was we wouldn't have to go through that process again. But we do. Mr. President, you are not above the law.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2014/01/29/bob_barr_is_ready_to_impeach_another_president.html

Obama recently told French President Hollande, "That's the good thing as a president, I can do whatever I want." He's wrong about that. If Barr has his way, Obama will be impeached. The Senate might vote to convict him too, because he's so toxic right now. The important thing about the whole affair wouldn't be the simple removal of flunky Obama, but the exposure of the banking crimes he helped perpetrate against the American people. And the gun-running murders in Mexico, and the use of the IRS to target political opponents, and so on. Once all of that is revealed, the U.S. government can begin to right itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 10:52 PM

Isn't Barr the whacko who built a diorama in his backyard that proved that Hilary murdered Vince Foster? Sounds like your kind of guy, Wrongo.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 14 - 11:17 PM

SOngwronger, how do you ever find out when you are thrashing int he grip of a virulent delusion? WOuld it be possible to compare your predictions with actual events and noticing that they never match, discover a clue to the restoration of your sanity?

I surely hope so.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 08:08 AM

This brings to mind a scene from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

"If you're gonna shoot, shoot! Don't talk."


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 08:35 AM

thrashing in the grip of a virulent delusion

ShitWringer's in good company, then, with the majority of Republicans in the House.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 10:16 AM

From 2011:

Bob Barr to Aid Jean-Claude 'Baby Doc' Duvalier in Haiti

CNN reports that

A former U.S. congressman was among a group of American attorneys accompanying former Haitian dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier as he spoke in the country's capital Friday.

Former Republican Congressman Bob Barr said he is not serving as Duvalier's attorney, but is in Port-au-Prince to consult, assist and be Duvalier's voice to the international community.

Barr represented Georgia's 7th District in the U. S. House of Representatives from 1995 to 2003, and was the Libertarian Party's presidential nominee in 2008. He currently practices law and runs a consulting firm based in Atlanta.

According to Channel 11 in Atlanta,

Jean Claude "Baby Doc' Duvalier has returned to the country after 25 years of exile.

The Duvalier family ruled Haiti as their own personal fiefdom for 30 years.

They did so with a secret police force and all the tools the dictatorship could muster against its impoverished citizens

Four days ago "Baby Doc", the son of "Papa Doc", returned to Port Au Prince from exile in France.

He is now facing human rights abuse charges and needs some good representation. Enter Marger and Barr.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 01:52 PM

Joe Biden will make an excellent president after Bob Barr forces President Obama out of the White House. Perhaps Joe will name Michelle as his Vice President.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 01:58 PM

I think Oprah will be the choice!

Biden Winfrey 2016!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 04:01 PM

What a guy! Instead of calling him a flip-flopper, I guess one might admire his willingness to learn as he goes along.

From Wikipedia- and there's lots more there:

"He (Bob Barr) authored and sponsored the Defense of Marriage Act, a law enacted in 1996 which states that only marriages that are between a man and a woman can be federally recognized, and individual states may choose not to recognize a same-sex marriage performed in another state.[53] At the 2008 Libertarian National Convention, he apologized for the part of the Defense of Marriage Act which prevents the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages.[54]...He now supports same-sex marriage,[55] opposes the Federal Marriage Amendment, contending it is a violation of states' rights,[56] and supports the Respect for Marriage Act, which would repeal the Defense of Marriage Act.[57]

Terrorism
He voted for the first USA PATRIOT Act,[58] but only after his amendments adding "sunset clauses" were added to the final bill.[59]...He now publicly regrets[34] his Patriot Act vote.[61] ]

Controversies over Barr's personal conduct
In 1999, during Clinton's impeachment trial(which he led, Eb comment), Hustler publisher Larry Flynt offered money to anyone who could provide evidence that a prominent Republican had engaged in an extramarital affair. According to the American Journalism Review,[74] investigators for Flynt said that Barr was "guilty of king-size hypocrisy". In accordance with his public offer: Flynt subsequently paid a sum of money to Gail Barr after she had made a sworn affidavit.[14] Investigators reported that Barr invoked a legal privilege during his 1985 divorce proceeding, so he could refuse to answer questions on whether he'd cheated on his second wife with the woman who is now his third."[75]

In the 2004 presidential election, Barr left the Republican Party and publicly endorsed[82] the Libertarian Party presidential nominee Michael Badnarik.[83] ... Following his statement that he would not challenge the Republican incumbent in the 2012 primary race for Georgia's 14th congressional district, he subsequently indicated his return to the Republican Party...

In Congress, Barr's strong stance against medical marijuana put him at odds with marijuana policy reformers such as the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP). Despite this historic antagonism, in March 2007, Barr reversed his stance on medical marijuana[89] and began lobbying on behalf of MPP.[90][91] This new partnership saw Barr working to repeal his very own "Barr Amendment"[88] – the amendment[89] that overturned a voter-approved medical marijuana initiative in Washington, D.C.[90] and bars consideration of similar initiatives.[92]

On November 4, 2008 (as a presidential candidate), Barr received 523,686 votes, 0.4% of the national vote[133]


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: kendall
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 04:35 PM

They may have the votes, now, all they need is charges.

High crimes and misdemeanors.What has he done that qualifies?

Being black, no
Being a democrat, no
Being forced to change his mind on a few things, no

What's left?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 08:17 PM

Obama has run guns to Mexico and assisted in the murder of thousands in the Mexican drug war.

Obama has used the IRS to harrass political opponents. This was one of the charges that brought Nixon down. And they didn't have real proof on Nixon. Tons of proof on Obama.

The NSA spy network. Unconstitutional but embraced and expanded by Obama, the "law professor."

Torture, drone murders of babies abroad, drone murders of American citizens, starving of American children with cuts to social programming (genocide), robbing millions of Americans of health insurance while he knowingly lied about it.

Lots of charges. Take your pick.

What's lacking is the initiation of the proceedings. Apparently no one in our one-party fascist political system is willing to kick things off, but Barr will. Pretty sad when you have to look to a scumbag like Barr to do the right thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Feb 14 - 11:17 PM

"The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion dollars for the first 42 presidents — number 43 added $4 trillion dollars by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion dollars of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child.

That's irresponsible. It's unpatriotic."

Hmmmmm $9t to $17T? Number 44 has added $8 trillion dollars by his lonesome in only 5 years. Is that unpatriotic?

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 14 Feb 2014 at 03:44:25 AM GMT is:
$ 17,261,737,813,647.09

The estimated population of the United States is 317,637,292
so each citizen's share of this debt is $54,344.18. Why that's 180% increase ain't it?

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$2.38 billion per day since September 30, 2012!

"Today I'm pledging to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term in office."


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 10:25 AM

Failure to fulfill a campaign pledge is not an impeachable offense.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 10:36 AM

Back to thrashing in the grip of a multitude of virulent delusions, ShitWringer.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 09:57 PM

Bombshell: National Black Republican Association Files Articles of Impeachment Against Barack Obama (aka Barry Soetoro)

A conservative black citizens group, the National Black Republican Association (NBRA), has filed detailed articles of impeachment against Barack Obama, calling for his removal from office over the National Security Agency spying program, the prosecution of whistleblowers, wiretapping journalists, his torture program and the cover-up of Benghazi.

Though the group associates itself with Republicans, many of the articles referenced deal with activities that the Obama administration has engaged in with the full support of establishment Republicans, such as the NSA spying programs, illegal torture and treatment of whistleblowers like Edward Snowden.

"We, black American citizens, in order to free ourselves and our fellow citizens from governmental tyranny do herewith submit these Articles of Impeachment to Congress for the removal of President Barack H. Obama, aka, Barry Soetoro, from office for his attack on liberty and commission of egregious acts of despotism that constitute high crimes and misdemeanors," the articles begin....

ARTICLE 1

He has covered up, delayed, impeded and obstructed the investigation of the Benghazi Battle.

ARTICLE 3

He has authorized and permitted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, a division of the Justice Department, to conduct Operation Fast and Furious...

ARTICLE 4

He has authorized and permitted confidential income tax returns information from the Internal Revenue Service to be provided to unauthorized individuals, organizations and agencies.

ARTICLE 5

He has caused investigations and audits to be initiated or conducted by the Internal Revenue Service in a discriminatory manner...

ARTICLE 6

He has (1) authorized and permitted the National Security Agency to conduct or continue electronic surveillance of over 300 million average Americans...

ARTICLE 7

He has authorized and permitted the Department of Justice to wiretap and secretly obtain two months of telephone and e-mail records of Fox News Reporter James Rosen and over one hundred Associated Press journalists....

ARTICLE 8

He has thwarted Congress by (1) failing to enforce all or parts of laws duly enacted by Congress, including the Defense of Marriage Act, the No Child Left Behind Act, and the Affordable Care Act...

ARTICLE 10

He has intimidated whistleblowers and brought twice as many prosecutions against whistleblowers as all prior presidents combined. Egregiously, while refusing to prosecute anyone for actual torture, he prosecuted former Central Intelligence Agency employee John Kiriakou for disclosing the torture program....

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/08/bombshell-national-black-republican-association-files-articles-of-impeachment-against-barack-o


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 14 - 10:14 PM

Don't get your hopes up, Bunky. It'll get about as far as the nearest waste basket.

Where it belongs.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 01:08 AM

SW gets his information from some schmuck named Dr. Robert Owens who writes for the Conservative Action Alert, a rag that wouldn't even make good toilet paper. Check it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 09:53 AM

I have spent time tracking down various posts cut and pasted by Songwronger. I might have some sympathy with those he chooses to use as support for his ideas had those same people been after George Bush with the same fervor. But whoa, such is not the case. Subsequently, I have come to think 'thou doth protest too much' Songwronger. You have an agenda I do not share.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 10:42 AM

The thread title is old news and it is disrespectful of the Office of the President and therefor impolite. Furthermore, it is apparent that the purpose of this thread is to express hatred for the President by the original poster.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 14 - 10:05 PM

"Today I'm pledging to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term in office."

And he did. Look it up asshole.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 14 - 02:21 PM

this is a weird thread.
maybe you should just call it I don't like Mr Obama.
If he were guilty of half the things you say, he would be in jail. The United Nations would insist on his removal and the US's suspension from the UN.

and do you really think there is some question about his citizenship?

god knows we've had crooks and murderers as prime minister, and before that as kings of England. I don't think we ever had one that gave every appearance of being a decent human being (like Mr Obama does) at the same as being a villain.

focus! songwronger - if you've got something to say , say it! not a bullshit connection to an obvious gang of bullshitters.
And before that ....SERIOUSLY, do you think he's not American?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Feb 14 - 02:38 PM

"just call it I don't like Mr Obama."

It would be very nice, more honest and much less impolite if he did.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 08:50 AM

The President has been treated with disrespect by all sorts of politicians, talk show hosts, and know nothings since he first took office. Couldn't be racial prejudice, could it?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 09:10 AM

There will always be people who don't like the president for one reason or other, some reasons justified and others not. Hence the Secret Service. That said, just because a person is elected to an office doesn't mean that s/he's automatically worthy of respect; nor is the office. Respect comes with accomplishment. There was little worthy of respect in Bush's reign, and many people think not much worthy of respect in Obama's reign. Suck it up, buttercup. Such is life.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Elmore
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 10:37 AM

buttercup?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 11:33 AM

its not the fact that Obama is being criticised - or abused even. its the nature of the abuse that is discomfiting - it sounds racist and scary.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 12:08 PM

The House also has the votes to deny climate change and support creationism.

The Repubs are a bunch of fundagelical morons; have been for decades.

This is NEWS?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 14 - 05:41 PM

The buttercup wasn't directed at you--or anyone else for that matter--Elmore. Improper use of an old expression for which I apologize.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:03 PM

"We're going to punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends"

"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"

"I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow* when you could afford it."

*benzoylmethylecgonine AKA Coke, Cocaine

Should Bush be impeached?:
"Not because he is a now-dry alcoholic, cocaine user, slow to learn, messianic born-again beanwad and a pseudo-Christo fascist, but because he broke the law, lied and has lost the people's trust as well as having besmirched the good name of America around the globe."


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 12:38 PM

2008 "First, we'll commit ourselves to getting one million 150 mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrid cars on our roads within six years. And we'll make sure these cars are built not in Japan, not in China, but right here in the United States of America." And the crowd cheers.

what is the major source of the electricity to charge these mythical cars? Coal which is creates more pollution and C02 than gasoline.
Sierra Club: "A caveat to consider is that when coal plants supply the majority of the power in a given area, electric vehicles may emit more CO2 and SO2 pollution than hybrid electric vehicles."
In 2012, the United States generated about 4,054 billion kilowatthours of electricity. About 68% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuel. 37% from coal

A moot point because there are only 1an estimated 28,806 EVs in the US as of 6 November 2013, Slightly short of the 1 million Mr Obama's is committed to.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Feb 14 - 01:37 PM

Its Nuclear where I live.
and more and more coal plants are being replaced by natural gas and renewable sources.

You get points for trying though.
At least you are giving a 2008 response to a 2008 speech.

Did President Obama to get to implement all of the policies with regards to energy? If the carbon tax had passed. That vision would probably be a reality.

Also,

"We'll commit ourselves" isn't the same as saying "This will happen or Sawzaw will get to say "I told you so."


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 12:26 AM

At Monday's news conference, President ***** angrily denied that he is using unchecked or dictatorial powers. But how else can you characterize his behavior? What tyrant hasn't claimed the need to use extra legal powers to protect the motherland or fatherland from some threat? How much Orwellian doublespeak can this coun-try tolerate?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 12:33 AM

"what is the major source of the electricity to charge these mythical cars? Coal which is creates more pollution and C02 than gasoline."

But it is generated at a centralized location where CCS can be performed (try chasing millions of cars around with hoses), and the night time charging provides energy saving load balancing. Don't spew talking points on subjects you know nothing about asshole.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 02:02 PM

What an idiotic thread. Caution- mental defectives at work.

Any president may be impeached by a hostile House of Representatives, but the trial is conducted in the Senate. If the president (or other government official) has a friendly majority in the Senate, the House vote is meaningless.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 03:26 PM

If the impeaching party has less than 60 % of the Senate, the House vote is meaningless. as are over 40 votes to defund the ACA.


Songwronger just uses news items as an excuse to tell all he doesn't like the President.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 03:45 PM

Kindly inform this asshole where CCS IS being performed?

Also any evidence that Obama cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term in office.

Where are the million plug in cars?


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 04:11 PM

Yours was a hypothetical.
If we had the electric cars, we could also do CSS.
You were dismissing the concept.
And you got caught.
You don't understand the actual issues, you repeat talking points.
You had to Google CSS didn't you?!
Of course you did.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 04:57 PM

There is no CCS being done. It is not known if it will ever be done.
There are only approx 28,000 plug in electric cars in the US.

If you have other facts, please present them instead of your talking points and vicious ad hominem attacks.

"If we had" does not point to a fact.
"CCS could be done" is not a fact until it is being done.
Actually the use of "if" and "could" indicate things that have not happened and therefore are not of any substance.

And where are any facts to support your talking point about the deficit "was" cut in half?


Carbon Capture and Storage is a losing propositon as it is estimated to require an additional 30% to 40% of the plant's electrical output to accomplish this task. In addition, coal plants already utilize 12 to 15% of their produced energy to clean their emissions (precipitators for ash, SO2 & NOX removal for the bad GHG gasses); and they still produce volumes of GHG gasses.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Feb 14 - 10:12 PM

Grand Coulee dam, Bonneville dam, Ross dam, Snake River dam, McNary dam, etc.

Hydro power up here in the Pacific Northwest. Not only do the dams provide electrical power here, but we wind up selling electrical power to other states, such as California. Also, the dams provide irrigation for farmland, and orchards and vineyards in Washington and Oregon.

Rainfall and snowfall provide lots of water. We swim in it, fish in it, ski on it, and eventually light our houses and power our electric cars with it.

Non-polluting. No CCS required.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 11:07 AM

Hydro power is what percentage?
On average, 37% of the electricity to recharge the plug ins is produced by burning coal.

Where I live, by paying extra, you can opt in to 100% wind power. You still get the same mixture of sources but it makes you "feel good" just like the other so called environmentally friendly "feel good" activities. Like Gasohol.

Will the world build 1,200 new coal plants?
Brad Plumer Washington Post

Climate scientists have sometimes warned that it could prove impossible to avoid high levels of global warming unless the world stops building new coal-fired plants. But that's not a simple proposition. Across the globe, there are at least 1,199 coal plants now on the drawing board, according to a new report from the World Resources Institute.

Many of these proposed new plants are in China and India, which account for 76 percent of proposed capacity. Turkey and Russia also have big plans. And a growing number of coal plants are being proposed for developing countries such as Cambodia, Guatemala and Uzbekistan, nations that are looking to cut-rate sources of energy to fuel economic growth.


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 12:07 PM

It's no surprise that carbon capture and storage (CSS) isn't happening, it is mostly a pipe dream by the coal industry as part of their suggestion that there is such a thing as "clean coal."
DOE's Carbon Sequestration Program is focused on geologic storage of captured CO2 that would otherwise be emitted to the atmosphere. Applied research is being conducted to develop and test different approaches to CCS. Technology testing and development through the Regional Carbon Sequestration Partnership (RCSP) Initiative and other entities will be instrumental to the commercial deployment of CCS. DOE's vision is to fully understand the available CCS options, cost factors, environmental implications, and technological options.


Don, the trouble with damming rivers in the PNW is that it clobbers cultures that were dependent upon the fish and seasonal flooding of those rivers and it submerged a lot of good agricultural land along the shorlines. The Colville reservation is one where the former fishing culture now gets their salmon in cans from the USDA. Not a happy outcome.

There aren't votes to impeach Obama, this thread was another bit of vitriol started by Songwronger. Has it run it's course?

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: House of Reps has Votes to Impeach Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Feb 14 - 03:15 PM

Granted, hydropower, especially when it dams rivers like the Columbia, is a mixed blessing. Among other things, it cuts off the usual salmon spawning grounds, unless adequate fish ladders or other bypasses are constructed (and I believe such provisions have been made on the Columbia).

The Colville tribe definitely took a hit with the building of the Grand Coulee dam. But at the same time, the resultant reservoir provided the water to turn an otherwise pretty unproductive prairie east of the Cascades into highly productive farmland, orchards, and vineyards. But as I say, not an unmixed blessing.

A big hassle right now is the move on the coal industry to run coal trains through the Puget Sound area to ship vast quantities of the stuff to China! For one thing, they can't be bothered to pull tarps over the uncovered gondola coal cars, so clouds of coal dust blow off as the trains roll by and drift out and around wherever the trains run. Right through a couple of cities! Black lung disease, anybody!??

Then, the ultimate destination of the coal:   China!

Here is the result of all that coal that China burns to produce electrical power:    CLICKY #1. And CLICKY #2.

And this is not at dusk, it's during the DAY!

On its worst day, smog in Los Angeles runs about 93 parts per million.

In Beijing, it characteristically runs about 700+!!

If you want to see a sunrise or a sunset in Beijing, you can watch a tape they play on television ….

And given the prevailing winds, jet stream and all, and given a bit of time, we get it right back here!!

So with due apologies to the Colville indian tribe and to the Columbia River salmon, I'm glad that when I turn on the electric heater on a chilly day, I'm not requiring that someone throw another shovelful of coal into the hopper.

Don Firth


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This Thread Is Closed.


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