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BS: LOBSTAH!

gnu 15 Jun 13 - 08:44 AM
Will Fly 15 Jun 13 - 08:52 AM
Bat Goddess 15 Jun 13 - 08:58 AM
Rapparee 15 Jun 13 - 10:00 AM
Ebbie 15 Jun 13 - 10:42 AM
Charley Noble 15 Jun 13 - 11:01 AM
Mrrzy 15 Jun 13 - 02:55 PM
kendall 15 Jun 13 - 04:25 PM
Ed T 15 Jun 13 - 04:30 PM
GUEST 15 Jun 13 - 04:58 PM
gnu 15 Jun 13 - 05:14 PM
gnu 15 Jun 13 - 06:09 PM
Ed T 15 Jun 13 - 06:28 PM
GUEST,kendall 15 Jun 13 - 09:03 PM
gnu 15 Jun 13 - 10:32 PM
kendall 16 Jun 13 - 06:54 AM
gnu 16 Jun 13 - 07:06 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Jun 13 - 07:27 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Jun 13 - 07:32 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Jun 13 - 11:13 AM
gnu 17 Jun 13 - 10:09 AM
Becca72 17 Jun 13 - 11:05 AM
kendall 17 Jun 13 - 02:57 PM
gnu 17 Jun 13 - 05:45 PM
kendall 18 Jun 13 - 07:00 AM
GUEST 18 Jun 13 - 01:57 PM
gnu 18 Jun 13 - 03:12 PM
kendall 18 Jun 13 - 05:57 PM
Ed T 18 Jun 13 - 08:44 PM
gnu 18 Jun 13 - 09:18 PM
Ed T 18 Jun 13 - 09:47 PM
gnu 18 Jun 13 - 10:06 PM
Ed T 19 Jun 13 - 06:46 AM
kendall 19 Jun 13 - 07:30 AM
Ed T 19 Jun 13 - 07:53 AM
gnu 19 Jun 13 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,kendall 19 Jun 13 - 07:35 PM
gnu 19 Jun 13 - 07:51 PM
kendall 19 Jun 13 - 08:26 PM
Ed T 19 Jun 13 - 08:42 PM
kendall 20 Jun 13 - 07:32 PM
Ed T 20 Jun 13 - 07:54 PM
GUEST,kendall 21 Jun 13 - 01:26 PM
Ed T 21 Jun 13 - 03:57 PM
gnu 21 Jun 13 - 04:01 PM
Ed T 21 Jun 13 - 05:55 PM
kendall 21 Jun 13 - 07:19 PM
Ed T 21 Jun 13 - 07:38 PM
kendall 21 Jun 13 - 08:11 PM
Ed T 21 Jun 13 - 09:12 PM
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Subject: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 08:44 AM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15565423@N05/9050064538/


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 08:52 AM

I want one - piping hot, cooked in a beautiful thermidore recipe - and I want it now. All to myself. I shan't share it with anyone. Mine, all mine. Mwwaaahhh...!


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 08:58 AM

Well, my birthday lobster on Wednesday was disappointing, completely dry, chewy, and not as full-flavored as usual.

Got another chance for our anniversary in a couple weeks.

I moved to this part of the world for two reasons: proximity to the ocean and Homarus americanus.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 10:00 AM

Big bugs that never evolved enough to live on land.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 10:42 AM

BIG crawdads.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 11:01 AM

Got to get them fresh off the boat or at least from the lobster car at the wharf. We still haven't scarped up our annual lobster dinner down at the Five Islands Wharf this year. Damn, we just don't have our priorities sorted out properly.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 02:55 PM

They can't be dead when you buy them tho - in the Paris aquarium we saw shrimp bigger than most lobsters, and lobsters bigger than most VWs... I was *starving* by the end!


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 04:25 PM

Tomorrow is Father's day. hint hint


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 04:30 PM

When I read the title, I first thought it was a New England Lobster, rather than a Maritime Canadian one (with an actual "R" at the word end):)

I had two fresh cooked Lobster for brunch this morning... mmmm...."reeel good-uns, they wer".


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 04:58 PM

Entitlement is what it is. That's all.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 05:14 PM

Ed... that title is simply because K be The Lobstah King. Tomorrow I am buyin a couple live and cookin em meself, Kendall style. Never ever cooked lobster in fresh water but is K says that is the way to do it, I gotta try it ahyup. Gonna hypnotize em too on accounta my 86 year old mum has NEVER seen it done!??? I told her how K cooks em and that includes hypnotizin em. She looked at me in disbelief. Said she didn't believe it. She will on the morrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 06:09 PM

Just cracked one a them big trout. Ate the small claw, one bite a the big claw, the upper tail strip and the knuckles. Buddy... gonna be third period of the hockey game before I can even think of another bite. Fours hours and a long walk from now. Urp! Some shockin good me zon, me zon.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 06:28 PM

I was in a local bar near Boston eating fish chowder for the first NHL OT game. Alot of boozed-hyped up folks in Bruin sweaters, all around. But, it turned into sad-sleepy-boozed-up folks when "the Black Hawks" did their thing :)


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 09:03 PM

This is a scream. Thanks Dani.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 10:32 PM

K.... some people don't even know how to pick up a codfish without gettin themselves wet. I can't say as I could cite her fer bein scared. If ya didn't know how ta pick up a lobster, screamin and runnin is better than doin it wrong eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 06:54 AM

Yup; better to run and scream BEFORE you pick it up wrong, than after it grabs you.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 07:06 AM

Guess what I had for brekky.

K... I still say ya oughta make a YT vid on how you cook em. I wasn't jokin.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 07:27 AM

With my 'official legendary pedant' hat on

Thermidor [no E]

named after one of the months of the French Revolutionary Calendar

Autumn:
       Vendémiaire in French (from Latin vindemia, "grape harvest"), starting 22, 23 or 24 September
       Brumaire (from French brume, "fog"), starting 22, 23 or 24 October
       Frimaire (From French frimas, "frost"), starting 21, 22 or 23 November
    Winter:
       Nivôse (from Latin nivosus, "snowy"), starting 21, 22 or 23 December
       Pluviôse (from Latin pluvius, "rainy"), starting 20, 21 or 22 January
       Ventôse (from Latin ventosus, "windy"), starting 19, 20 or 21 February
    Spring:
       Germinal (from Latin germen, "germination"), starting 20 or 21 March
       Floréal (from Latin flos, "flower"), starting 20 or 21 April
       Prairial (from French prairie, "pasture"), starting 20 or 21 May
    Summer:
       Messidor (from Latin messis, "harvest"), starting 19 or 20 June
       Thermidor (or Fervidor) (from Greek thermon, "summer heat"), starting 19 or 20 July
       Fructidor (from Latin fructus, "fruit"), starting 18 or 19 August


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 07:32 AM

... but I agree, Will ~~ a most delicious recipe for the beloved crustacean... Tho just as it comes, with efficient tongs & scoops, & lots of genuine home-made egg-mayonnaise, delicious also!

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 11:13 AM

... and I am told Newberg is a good recipe too; but I don't recall ever having tried it.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 10:09 AM

Guess what I had for supper last eve and for brekky. Them two bugs was bigguns! Still got a small munch and one body.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Becca72
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 11:05 AM

Gnu, what did Mum think of the Morse method?


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 02:57 PM

There are several ways to cook Lobsters. My way is to hypnotize them before you dump them into boiling water.
Another way, Lazy mans lobster; break several eggs into a skillet, put a Lobster into the skillet among the eggs, cover it, turn up the heat, and the Lobster scrambles the eggs.

The most humane way, don't use water, use booze; cheap wine will do. Pour a bottle into a pot, put the lobster into the wine and turn the heat up. By the time that wine boils, that Lobster couldn't care less.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 05:45 PM

Didn't do it, Becca. Shit came up. K... hehehehee! Seriously! Ya gotta do a YT vid. Ya didn't even tell anyone here yer REAL "trick".


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 07:00 AM

I learned that hypnotism trick from former Governor, former Senator, former Secretary of State, former VP candidate,Ed Muskie of Maine.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 01:57 PM

New stunner technology of the future?
device


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 03:12 PM

Yeah but PETUI will still protest about eaten em... People for the Ethical Treatment of Ugly Invertebrates.

Not much of a joke but worth a shot eh.

I am sick of eaten bugs. Next scoff a yer bugs fer me will be August 10 or later. That's when our local season starts 25km from me. Bar none, the best tasting lobster come from the waters surrounding Shediac Bay because... I've explained it before... they just happens that they and the shellfish found therein *are*.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:57 PM

Lobsters lack a central nervous system like ours. They don't feel pain, the simply react to dangerous stimulus.stimuli,...


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 08:44 PM

""Lobsters lack a central nervous system like ours. They don't feel pain, the simply react to dangerous stimulus.stimuli""


Yes, that is what has been widely stated by lobster industry interests, and government population assessment scientists,for many years - mostly by those who are most interested in the success of the lobster industry than a broader perspective.And, it has been widely repeated.

My recollection is that the question of whether lobsters feel pain or not (regardless of whether they have a nervious system similar to humans or feel pain exactly like humans) is no longer seen as being that clear, from a scientific perspective, that is..


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 09:18 PM

Well... just by gut feelins... surely it feels pain. But, the shock of boiling water and the quick death combined with the fact that I do not believe any of them have read The Sonnets or studied Greek philosophy indicates to me that they taste delicious when boiled.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 09:47 PM

""I do not believe any of them have read The Sonnets or studied Greek philosophy""

Well, that may be one perspective on whether living creatures deserve ethical treatment or not? I suspect similar rational may have been used in the past to justify some very nasty treatment of humans :)

Regardless, f I were in the lobster industry, I suspect that (over the long term) a wise investment would be to spend a few research dollars in finding a better way of killing these animals than emersing them in boiling water.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 10:06 PM

Ed... thus we have electrocution en masse. Smart marketing. Only thing is, I don't have a bug electrocutin machine so I gotta use my lectric ta boil the water.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 06:46 AM

gnu, I suspect "mass boiling" is also a poor marketing angle, as well.

My comment relate to huge lobster companies involving big $ that process, and send lobsters to eating establishments.

One should not ignore the impact of animal rights groups, once they turn their sights in your direction. I seem to recall that many scientists used to say clubing young seals was humane, as it killed them swiftly. Even if it were, it would be foolish to ignore the impact of animal rights groups on this practice (who differed in their opinion on this form of death). The world is changing gnu, it is foolhardy to ignore it, if your income could be impacted.

As to lobsters feeling pain, even spokespersons from the Canadian lobster industry does not rule the possibility out - as noted near the end of end of the news item at the bottom of this post.

IMO, what you do at home is a personal matter between you and your lobster;)


German supermarkets


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 07:30 AM

My career was as a conservation officer first for the state of Maine, as a Coastal Warden, then as a fisheries enforcement agent with the National Marine Fisheries service.
I worked at the Lobster research station in Boothbay Harbor Maine before becoming Captain of the patrol boat Explorer.
Those scientists at the station assured me that Lobsters do not feel pain as we do.

If you want to do them in without "Pain", simply put them into FRESH water for an hour or two. Overnight is better.

By the by, what do the Germans know about Lobsters?


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 07:53 AM

""I worked at the Lobster research station in Boothbay Harbor Maine before becoming Captain of the patrol boat Explorer.
Those scientists at the station assured me that Lobsters do not feel pain as we do.""


What research did "these scientists" refer to to back that assessment-opinion up? From where they worked, I suspect their scientific expertise relates to lobster population health, not the topic at hand. Beyond that, why would their opinions (on that matter) be better than anyone else's who understands basic biology?

I also worked with lobster scientists and sector reps most of my career, and my assessment is that the "pain" issue is inconclusive, as the Canadian lobster representative stated in the news article posted. But, that's merely my opinion, and I am open to new scientific evidence, if anyone could provide it?


""By the by, what do the Germans know about Lobsters?""

They likely don't know much about lobsters, that is the point. When a sector rely's on the purchasing choices and changing beliefs-whims of others in the marketplace, it is best to pay attention to what they are thinking, saying, and who is supplying them with information (accurate, or otherwise).


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 10:28 AM

Ed... agreed.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 07:35 PM

I knew nothing of the biology of the Lobster, and I never argue with one who should know more on the subject than I do.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 07:51 PM

Well, I am an expert on one thing... hot weather, girls in bikinis, salt water sand between the toes, beer on ice, soda crackers and lobster... I am THERE! Sprechen sie SCOFF?!


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:26 PM

I do not enjoy dropping a living thing into boiling water. If it starts flapping its tail it might splash me! I DO feel pain.
Sorry about the flippant remark, I've never had one flap around in the pot if I have first hypnotized it.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:42 PM

Maybe it comes down to which biologist one chooses to put more stock in (no pun intended), those who have conducted specialized research on the topic - or the ones with "expert" opinions?

Pain research?

A 2009 pain study


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 07:32 PM

As I said, they do react to dangerous stimuli, it's a matter of survival. It still doesn't prove they feel pain as we do.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 07:54 PM

""Hold strong, and keep the faith with what you believe in, K - I wish you well""

:)


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 01:26 PM

Look, the information I have, which has come to me from biologists who should know, tells me they do not feel pain as we do. It's not an opinion, I don't know, and I doubt that anyone here does either.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:57 PM

Look, for youself K:

Ur Quote: ""I knew nothing of the biology of the Lobster, and I never argue with one who should know more on the subject than I do.""

Well, you certainly are doing a good job of arguing with some biologists here - The scientists (in the links I provided) who conducted the research are also biologists, and did direct research in the area. Just because you know and worked with some biologists for awhile in the past does not make their opinions (whenever and however they were made) 100% right for all time. Research knowledge goes forward in time, not backwards in time.

First you state (disguised as a fact): "They (lobsters) don't feel pain, the simply react to dangerous stimulus....Those scientists...who should know...at the station assured me that Lobsters do not feel pain as we do".

Then you say in your last post "I don't know" and point to the expert-biologists where you worked as establishing this fact, (which, it seems you feel is not an opinion).

If you read what I linked you will see that the word "inconclusive" was used by the Canadian Lobster industry representative (who maybe also should know someone who knows). This does not mean they do not feel pain, in any way. No evidence, beyond heresay, has been put forward here to establish lobsters do not feel pain.

Yes, lobsters bodies evolved differently than ours, I suspect to suit their different living environment. Animals sense pain for a protective purpose. Since they are in a harsh environment with daily challenges, it seems very odd that they would evolve without such a needed response tool.

Lobsters reacting to a potential pain stimuli (such as the pain we feel) make decisions to avoid that (pain) stimmuli does lead research biologists-scientists toward saying "yes, they possibly do feel pain", not in the opposite direction, (as your comments suggest).

You will note that I never stated thay do or do not feel pain - I don't know, just as you "and the Germans" don't know. I noted that it's not clear, but it would be wise for the lobster industry to invest in better methods than boiling (or other similar stressful killing methods)for marketing purposes.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:01 PM

I can't argue with that, Ed. I wonder if I should build sommat with one of my Chinese Tire Eliminator Powerpaks. They will boost my piece a shit built Ford tough truck so they should be able to toast the odd bug eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 05:55 PM

Gnu
Good project for you, combining Ford trucks and Chinese products, you enable you to come up with something lethal:)


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 07:19 PM

Let me put it another way, I really don't give a rodent's rump one way or the other.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 07:38 PM

I recall, a few years back, being at a tense meeting between loster fisherman and a lobster biologist who just delivered a top-down presentation on lobsters (with complex charts and graphs) to a gathering of seasoned lobstermen.

An wise older lobsterman stood up and asked the biologist, "how many hairs are there on the front swimeret of a three pound female lobster"?

The puzzled biologist replied, "I don't know"?

The wise old-salt smiled widely and said "Just as I thought. He then added, I don't know either - and that's a real good start. Instead of you coming here and talking down to us lobstermen, who have a lot of experience to share on our experience with lobster on the water, we can now start from a point where we all can admit that there are things we all don't know. I expect from there we can make real progress", he concluded.

Sometimes it is helpful to productive discourse for all to admit there are things they don't know.


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 08:11 PM

I've seen many cases where lobster fishermen think that because they have been catching them for years that they know more about them than the state biologists. They look down on anyone who is educated.
Fact is, they know how to catch them, and that about all they know.
I can argue this point from personal knowledge gathered in 16 years of fisheries law enforcement.

Right now the commercial fishermen in Portland are blaming the government, ( The National marine fisheries service,My old agency) for reducing the amount of flounders and shrimp they can catch. They are the ones who have over fished them!

"When the last tree has been cut down, when the last fish has been caught, when the last river is polluted, only then will you realize, you can't eat money." (A very wise native American)


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Subject: RE: BS: LOBSTAH!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:12 PM

K: IMO, you paint a infairly biased and simplistic picture of both fishermen and scientists. While the situation may differ in your local, I have seen similar negative viewpoints when dealing with law enforcement folks before.

I worked both sides of the field for 36 odd career years, first representing fishermen and then inside government, closely beside government bioplogists/scientists. My observation is both have information to contribute, and both make errors and have the capacity to be wrong.

For example, the fishermen off northern Newfoundland overfished northern cod (a huge resource) to near extinction - they highgraded huge amounts of bycatch overboard), they cheated on catch figures,and believed there was no limit to the amount they could and could never harm the future stocks. They were wrong.

However, many of the "highly educated" biologists-scientists were enablers, and were sure that their estimates of the stocks (that fishermen operated under) showed that huge catches could be removed without harming the stocks. They were wrong.

The result: Huge historically strong stocks took a huge tumble in the mid 90's and never returned.

Where do two "wrongs" get you? Not to two separate "rights". To increased trust and cooperation, respect is required and a recognizition that each has knowledge to contribute for a joint cause. Neither group has all the answers or resources and can't do it alone.

By the way, I was fortunate to have played a founding role in setting up a group that for the past 20 years gets fishermen and scientists together to share knowledge, learn from each other, cooperate in science projects to make the fisheries healthier. Below is a link:Fishermen/scientists group


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