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BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'

Ed T 16 Mar 13 - 07:34 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Mar 13 - 07:41 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Mar 13 - 09:18 AM
Allan Conn 16 Mar 13 - 09:57 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Mar 13 - 11:13 AM
Ed T 16 Mar 13 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 16 Mar 13 - 11:34 AM
Musket 16 Mar 13 - 11:43 AM
Ed T 16 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM
Ed T 16 Mar 13 - 05:47 PM
gnu 16 Mar 13 - 06:26 PM
gnu 16 Mar 13 - 06:38 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Mar 13 - 07:31 PM
Stringsinger 16 Mar 13 - 08:08 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Mar 13 - 08:58 PM
gnu 16 Mar 13 - 09:08 PM
akenaton 16 Mar 13 - 09:32 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Mar 13 - 09:39 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Mar 13 - 09:39 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Mar 13 - 09:40 PM
akenaton 16 Mar 13 - 09:55 PM
gnu 16 Mar 13 - 10:05 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 17 Mar 13 - 02:36 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Mar 13 - 05:26 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Mar 13 - 06:28 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Mar 13 - 06:47 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Mar 13 - 07:08 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Mar 13 - 07:10 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Mar 13 - 07:35 AM
akenaton 17 Mar 13 - 09:06 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Mar 13 - 09:17 AM
akenaton 17 Mar 13 - 09:26 AM
akenaton 17 Mar 13 - 09:43 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Mar 13 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Musket sans cookie 17 Mar 13 - 10:28 AM
GUEST 17 Mar 13 - 10:44 AM
MGM·Lion 17 Mar 13 - 11:47 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Mar 13 - 11:52 AM
Stringsinger 17 Mar 13 - 01:22 PM
gnu 17 Mar 13 - 03:46 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Mar 13 - 04:25 PM
akenaton 17 Mar 13 - 07:30 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Mar 13 - 08:17 PM
akenaton 18 Mar 13 - 05:28 AM
MGM·Lion 18 Mar 13 - 05:51 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 18 Mar 13 - 08:10 AM
Stringsinger 18 Mar 13 - 10:44 AM
akenaton 18 Mar 13 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 18 Mar 13 - 05:45 PM
gnu 18 Mar 13 - 05:53 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 07:34 AM

Every once and awhile someone says something to each of us that makes us look at life in a different perspective.

With me it was a new (former) boss who was dealing with negativity in the workplace. He said, "when you talk with me, forget about making complaints. I can't do anything about any complaint. But, I can possibly do something with a request. So, instead of putting your energies into making complaints, it's best to put them into making requests and suggestions on how we can make changes."


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 07:41 AM

Jim.
I never claimed you did and if you don't withdraw the accusation, it is you who is the fucking liar

Your claim that ANYONE, member or guest, has been "defending the massacre of 3,500 unarmed refugees " is a lie, and you are a liar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:18 AM

I want to know, please, why I am a "bigot".


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Allan Conn
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:57 AM

"To assert that Catholics deny or defend the child molestation scandal, is a fucking lie"

Well at least some leading Catholics do. Maybe not defend the act itself but defend the perpretators. Evidence of that is the cover ups that have gone on. Then there is the statement from a South African Catholic Cardinal today in his statement suggesting that paedophilia is not a criminal condition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 11:13 AM

MtheGM... "...as you feel honour-bound and motivated to contradict them."
Talk about a poor choice of words given what Joe is upset about. I don't think it's true, either.

.,,.
-Gnu
I find this response of yours to mine addressed to Joe somewhat gnomic. In fact I can make nor heads nor tails of what you are on about. Would you care to elucidate, please?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 11:20 AM

An interesting article:
You can't Saw Sawdust


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 11:34 AM

Only recently an article appeared in the Irish Times quoting an abuse victim's story of the first reaction when she told her parents what had happened to her. Her father took his belt and beat her for the 'lies' she told about what the PP had done to her.


While I have no doubt that on a personal level catholics abhor what has taken place, there's still the creeping suspicion the church would have liked the whole scandal to just go away and too many apologies were only issued under the overwhelming pressure of public opinion.

The way orders initially tried (and managed) to off-load the main burden of payments to victims to the Irish state may be taken as an indication the willingness to accept the consequences of all revelations and scandals was maybe not as complete as some would like us to believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Musket
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 11:43 AM

Fascinating word "bigot."

it is a word that non bigots use to describe bigots. It is also a word that bigots use to describe non bigots.

At the end of the day, religions like to think that 1) the law of the land isn't superior to their codes of practice and b) rational people should have to not only listen but respect the proclamations of those whom members of such cults call their leaders.

Joe tries to draw a balanced argument based on his sincere beliefs, background and assertion that religion still has a place in society. The problem is that to those who think otherwise, only the bad bits stick, as the good bits can be delivered without the irrational baggage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM

""most people consider themselves not only to be skilled in reasoning, but in fact more skilled than just about everyone else.""

Charles S. Peirce, USA philosopher,largely responsible for the development of the philosophical school of Pragmatism


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 05:47 PM

""Few persons care to study logic, because everybody conceives himself to be proficient enough in the art of reasoning already. But, I observe that this satisfaction is limited to one's own ratiocination, and does not extend to that of other men.""
- Charles Peirce, The Fixation of Belief


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 06:26 PM

MtheGM... "...as you feel honour-bound and motivated to contradict them."
Talk about a poor choice of words given what Joe is upset about. I don't think it's true, either.
.,,.
-Gnu
I find this response of yours to mine addressed to Joe somewhat gnomic. In fact I can make nor heads nor tails of what you are on about. Would you care to elucidate, please?"

No prob responding to a guy like you... others, not so much. So...

"Honur bound and motivated" are assumptions of yours perhaps based on your interpretations of Joe's posts (Need I say IMO for the uneducated?). I certainly do not agree. I see Joe's posts as responses that are measured and well written in such a manner as to explain a singular certain very basic logic. Let me explin that logic in a way that most readers will understand (forgive me if I paraphrase and, Joe, if I got this wrong, smite me)....

Not all Cat'lics fuck little boys and damn near all Cat'lics would kick tha livin shit outtta any piece a trash that did. Got that!????

I could go on about how things are getting cleaned up on THAT ONE ISSUE or discuss others issues but I hope you get the gist.

Now... "contradict them"? WTF did he contradict? Fuck all except the fallacies... and the bigotry... and the lies. He never contradicted any valid statements or arguements that I read in this thread.

I guess, in the end, MtheGM, it may be solely interpretation. Such may lead to what happened when Joe couldn't take the bullshit anymore... but he didn't say what I have said often here and it happened to him herein... "Don't put words in my mouth." I go from gnu to Wildebeeste in a nanofuckingsecond when someone does that to me.

In closing, allow me to say to all of you who persecute the Cat'lic RELIGION... when those slimey bastards arrive at my door early on Saturday morning and want to SELL me their religion, I think to myself, being RC, "Who the fuck PAYS for religion?" So, that's when I say to them that I am Black Irish Catholic. If they say one more word, I say, "And it's a good thing we Cat'lics are TOLERANT of other religions. Otherwise, seeing as how there are SO many of us, you wouldn't FUCKING EXIST."

Think about all of that before any of you shit on Joe again for being simply logical and defending his FAITH... his RELIGION... and NOT those who have tresspassed against others. If ANY of you can't understand that you will never go to hell... ya ain't got the fuckin brains for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 06:38 PM

Oh, yeah... how we doin on the hell thing? Anybody besides good Cat'lics know what hell really IS?

I mean, why not ask? Youse never answered the OP or much partcipated the revised version. Dunno why... too complictaed? or are youse just too focused on shitting on the floor? (Again... floor.. naw... nevermind.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 07:31 PM

Now... "contradict them"? WTF did he contradict? Fuck all except the fallacies... and the bigotry... and the lies. He never contradicted any valid statements or arguements that I read in this thread.

He contradicted nothing. He simply lashed out and called three of us bigots. I'm waiting for the explanation of why Bonnie, Jim and me are bigots. I understand how honest people can feel cornered by powerful arguments and lash out. I've done it myself on occasion, then realised afterwards that losing my rag whilst others kept their heads was a pretty futile strategy. Bonnie, Jim and my good self put in considerable effort - maybe misguided at times, who knows - into what we post. Most often it's based on a fair bit of homework beforehand. I'm always happy with my standpoint, because I've done that collar-work, though I never feel it's impregnable, but I feel OK as long as I've done my homework first. Yes I'm biased against Catholicism. Well, against all organised religion if I'm honest. But that does not blind me at all to the fact that billions of people adhere to certain faiths, and what a bloody clot I would be to call them all fools or deny their right to hold whatever beliefs they want to hold. I do not agree with Joe on most levels, though I can see that he is a very sincere man in his beliefs and (like me as it happens) would like to see Catholicism in a much healthier state than it currently is, for the sake of its hundreds of millions of followers. One of the greatest sins of Catholicism is that it requires its people to be guilty, sinful, miserable wretches who are sorely in need of salvation. I take no pleasure in that "told-you-so" way when the Church hits the buffers, because that means its followers are suffering as well. I don'rt really care that much if someone calls me a bigot, but I think I'm owed a bit of an explanation at least.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 08:08 PM

Hey Joe, you're overreacting. You have every right to your belief system and if others take exception to something the Church does, they have that right too.

As much as religion tends to dominate the culture in the U.S., I don't think any branch of it is completely monolithic. There are Catholics and Catholics, Jews and Jews, Protestants and Protestants, Muslims and Muslims, etc.

As far as the Pope is concerned, the jury is out on him in his association with the Argentine dictator. This remains to be uncovered.

Many religious folk take a slam at their religion personally. I think that if they do this,
they belie their "faith" in which criticism shouldn't matter if they really "believe".

Everyone is a bigot in some areas of their lives. You and I have some of this too.

So cool off on the shouting folks down. They have a right to their opinions and so do you.

But throwing "bigot" around doesn't address the problem of communication. These people who you have cited have something important to address and it's not just hatred but criticisms that if you explored them, you might be in agreement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 08:58 PM

In a peculiar way, the fact that this Pope connived in a vicious regime's activities, or that the last Pope was a member of Hitler Youth, matters very little in any substantive sense. Yes, these facts (and facts they are, despite the desperate spin put on them by the Vatican hierarchy) give gleeful atheists and the like some wonderful sticks to thrash Catholicism with. But the underlying, and far more serious, issue is that this Pope, despite his much-trumpeted humility and penchant for doing "ordinary things", is at least as reactionary as God knows how many popes before him. The Catholic community takes lying down the election of a chap by a bunch of shagged-out, utterly unworldly old cardinals in frocks, not a woman in sight, yet women are overwhelmingly the victims of Catholicism. The major issue for Catholics (if they see it as an issue, which I admit many may not)is that nothing can change as a result of the election of this pope. See how we rail against regimes in Iran, Egypt, China and the rest for their undemocratic ways, yet we gleefully accept the election of a geriatric Pope by smoke. Gimme strength!


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:08 PM

"He contradicted nothing. He simply lashed out and called three of us bigots."

Anyone can read all the posts on this thread. So anyone can determine whether or not that statement is true.

That's as far as I read. I am outta here. If you don't understand why... well, yer never goin ta hell.

HINT : Ignorance is bliss.

Blindness for the sighted is just plain sad as it isn't even a
poor excuse but a simple ruse by which they fool themselves and attempt to fool others.

Whaddya mean that don't make sense? Sure it does. Think about it.

gnightgnu


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:32 PM

Joe....Thats my boy!! :0)
They ARE bigots who want to destroy religion not because they are more intelligent or have greater understanding than people of faith, but because religion is seen by them as the last bastion of conservatism.....it is really a political agenda, and they care not a whit for the views of others.....they are illiberal in the extreme.

The fight back starts here you scumbags.... :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:39 PM

If I call someone a bigot I have a pretty clear idea in my mind why I would be using that term. Akenaton is a bigot of the highest order, for example. His last post provides all the evidence one needs to make that assertion. We really ought to thank him for providing such a clear illustration of the true meaning of the term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:39 PM

If I call someone a bigot I have a pretty clear idea in my mind why I would be using that term. Akenaton is a bigot of the highest order, for example. His last post provides all the evidence one needs to make that assertion. We really ought to thank him for providing such a clear illustration of the true meaning of the term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:40 PM

I'll swear I sent that just the once.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:55 PM

Steve, you confuse bigotry with plain speaking....I doubt that you can contradict anything which i write, either on the health issues associated with homosexuality or on how homosexuality is perceived in the public sphere.

The world does not end at the walls of your "liberal" bubble.

I have no agenda to irradicate homosexuals....live and let live i say....toleration etc etc. I do feel it is correct to comment on what i see as bad legislation and to give my reasons for doing so. I know you think that makes ME a bigot, but THAT is more of a reflexion on your mindset than my views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 10:05 PM

I came back to make another point because it was bugging me and I read Ake trying to suck up to Joe and make this thread about his (Ache's) gay agenda... nevermind... yer all goin ta hell... well, those with a concience that is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 02:36 AM

""live and let live i say....toleration etc etc.""

That would be hilarious Ake, if it weren't so tragic.

I think you actually believe that ridiculous statement, in the face of multiple threads which expose again and again your total intolerance of travellers, homosexuals, British Pakistanis and fellow members of this forum, capped off with a rabid hatred of anything or anybody you categorise as "liberal", whatever that means in your bubble of intolerance.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 05:26 AM

"That would be hilarious Ake, if it weren't so tragic."
Not forgetting this is the guy who suggested that the Norwegian mass murderer Breivik had some 'important points that were worth listening to'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 06:28 AM

It has taken me until now to calm down enough to even come back on the site, so this is the first time I've seen this thread since my previous message a couple of days ago. And I wrote this post before reading everything that follows my last one. Wow. Now I'm a "fucking" bigot. (Isn't there supposed to be some rule about no personal attacks on Mudcat? Or does that only apply to the rest of us?)

I'm going to send it anyway, as-is, because its basic point hasn't changed. For "I" and "me" you can simply read "we" and "us."

From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 05:42 PM

It's not that you are a bigot. It's just that you aren't very tolerant


Another lie. Joe, DO NOT make character judgments on me. Don't try to tell me what I "am". You Do. Not. Know.

Do not call me names simply because a viewpoint I have clashes with one of yours. You do not have the right to pronounce judgment on me. And you especially do not have the right to twist my words and paraphrase me with things I *did not say*. Most of the time I have been simply asking questions.

And: You're criticising me for TOLERANCE????? That's rich, considering the tolerance-level of the institution you spend so much time defending.

Nowhere have I shown myself to be "anti-Catholic" because I am simply not. Asking fair questions - which still have not been answered to satisfaction - is not being bigoted or anti- or whatever slander you feel like slinging my way.

There is a difference between critical query and attack, but this is such a vulnerable area for you that you can't seem to distinguish between the two. There is also a difference between moral issues being "complicated" and being self-contradictory. Reading through the texts does not make them less so.

But whatever about arguing points of religion: DO NOT ASSIGN CHARACTER-DESCRIPTIONS TO ME. You have no right to sit in judgment on anyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 06:47 AM

I've just put this thread into "printer-friendly" mode and made a PDF of it. 128 pages. Gosh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 07:08 AM

In the past I have seen where Joe has gone back afterwards and edited a few of his posts. Wonder if that's going to magically happen again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 07:10 AM

I have no agenda to irradicate homosexuals....live and let live i say....toleration etc etc.
This inane remark reinforces your image as a bigot. You can't see it, can you. "Toleration"? So homosexuals are to be "tolerated", huh? Any provisos for them while you're at it? Instead, how about celebrating diversity and difference and living together?


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 07:35 AM

Feel free to correct my capricious italics any time in your pdf, Bonnie. :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 09:06 AM

I dont "suck up" to Joe, for any reason.....I dont "suck up" to anyone, either here or in the real world.

I have been urging Joe to stand up to the "mice" who have been attacking him and what he obviously believes in. These people are not liberal, they are an excellent definition of "liberals".


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 09:17 AM

Erm, in case you hadn't noticed, Ake, Joe has been doing a great job of "standing up" (which is not how I'd describe it) to opposing opinions. Since when is it not allowed to express dissenting viewpoints and ask valid questions? I don't see why the demonisation of people who don't share his beliefs should go unchallenged.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 09:26 AM

Steve....how do you find it possible to "celebrate" a lifestyle that carries with it such horrific rates of sexual infection?

Are you so blinded by your agenda that you cannot see that male to male sex is highly dangerous to those who participate in it.
In my opinion,the extreme promiscuity which you say causes these inflated rates is a symptom of, and endemic to male homosexuality.

The church is correct to point this out, whether it be a fashionable viewpoint or not; unfortunately the church continues to encourage the practice by retaining the celibacy rule and filling the priesthood with homosexuals......the highest figure in the catholic Church in Scotland has just been accused of sexual misconduct with young men so something is obviously amiss.

However, that is very different from attacking the whole ethos of religious faith, as seems to be happening in this thread.
All churches should reflect a socially conservative view in their teaching, do do otherwise would mean they become only another cult.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 09:43 AM

Sorry Bonnie...cross posted.

I dont think Joe was referring to you in particular, your messages seem to be reasonable even when they are critical.
You also seem to know exactly what you are talking about, unlike a handful of other "attack dogs" who reside here.

Joe is trying to explain and defend feelings which are very personal to him, to a group of people who neither share, nor even have any understanding of such matters.
His outburst was understandable and long overdue...in my opinion.
He has apologised to you personally and from his words it can be easily deduced that he respects your opinions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 09:48 AM

There is absolutely no reason why a homosexual "lifestyle" should be inherently more hazardous than a heterosexual "lifestyle". HIV is a predominantly heterosexual problem in much of Africa, which highlights the true issue, that sexually transmitted diseases are to do with poor education, ignorance often promoted by religion and the unavailability of condoms. You are using statistics to shore up your moral crusade, when the statistics actually reveal a lot more about what a bunch of numpties we are when it comes to sex education and how easy it is for religion and moralising to get in the way. It's the same with the horrid abortion rates. Moralising perpetuates these problems. Leave your morals at the door, stop being so bloody triumphalist about statistics that actually show something you're not talking about, and think about practical measures just for once.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 10:28 AM

What a thread eh?

Joe loses his temper. Akenaton explains his bigotry in plain easy to understand words but then fails to see what he is describing and then to cap it all the thread is about how the new Pope gets to grips with a reality he has no experience of. And neither did the cardinals when they chose an apologist for the Argentinian junta. Let alone his views on human beings, especially women and gays.

I doubt I shall be using his pronouncements as my guide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 10:44 AM

Steve, please answer the question, why should we "celelebrate"
sexual behaviour which produces such results?

Apparently sexual custom in parts of Africa determines that hetero males behave in a very promiscuous manner, this is to be condemned, but at the moment we are discussing infection rates in the developed western countries where information and education is readily available.    Perhaps you could take a little time out from your "celebrations" to explain the huge discrepancies between homo and hetero infection rates, not only for hiv but for most serious, sexually transmitted diseases.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 11:47 AM

"Sorry Bonnie...cross posted.I don't think Joe was referring to you in particular"
.,,.
Yes he was, Ake; he specifically named Bonnie, along with Jim & Steve, as being those who had provoked his outburst. You weren't reading carefully. Not sure why he left me out; don't think I am revealing any cabinet secrets if I say I had some PM correspondence, which he initiated, with him on the matter.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 11:52 AM

Strange, because I hadn't written anything in the intervening time - and my previous post was simply defending my character. Not sure what provoked the fresh outburst in my case. Whatever new thing I did, I managed it while I wasn't even logged in!


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 01:22 PM

I don't think you can separate the Pope's "conservative" views from his embracing of an authoritarian regime. They are "status quo" as was the Argentine regime at the time of his sojourn there.

Dictators flourish under authoritarian views whether they are Catholic or not.

Again, you can't paint all Catholics with the same brush, as well as devotees of other religions.

But the basic problem with religion is that it causes war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 03:46 PM

Subject: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 07:38 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 08:07 AM
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134 posts... I think I have gleaned the answer to my question.

Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 09:01 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 08:16 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 09:35 PM
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bject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 06:29 PM
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ect: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 09:08 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Bonnie Shaljean - PM
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 07:08 AM

In the past I have seen where Joe has gone back afterwards and edited a few of his posts. Wonder if that's going to magically happen again? In the past I have seen where Joe has gone back afterwards and edited a few of his posts. Wonder if that's going to magically happen again?
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From a reasonable request to possible libel? What the fuck is wrong with youse? To wit....

Subject: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu - PM
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 07:38 PM

A partial quote from that OP.... "If the thread goes south, and I can just imagine it will, I will ask for it to be deleted."
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I request that this thread NOT be deleted but that it is kept for all eternity for every human to read in future.

I request that this thread be closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 04:25 PM

I do not "celebrate" any form of sexual behaviour, o "guest", unless it's one of those rare occasions when I'm getting enough of it. I said that we should celebrate difference and diversity. We should celebrate even more when we finally have a world in which everyone of whatever persuasion in whatever walk of life that does not impinge on the freedoms of others can be happy in their own skins and feel that so is everyone else. People like you simply stand in the way of that ultimate quest for happiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 07:30 PM

Hmmm.......Should the above post not be moved to the "Psychobabble" thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 08:17 PM

No. Read it properly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 05:28 AM

Grow up Steve.....do you really think homosexuals in general are fulfilled and "happy" individuals.
If they are, I have yet to meet one. All that i have met seem to have something missing in ther lives, as if they were participating in a theatrical production......a charade..

Things like "Gay Marriage" are of course the "props"


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 05:51 AM

Oh dear, Ake, this doesn't belong on this thread, honestly; and you know it. We have had previous threads, on one of which I recall listing 6 same-sex couples, M & F, known to me so obviously a pretty significant sample in proportionate terms of one man's total acquaintance, who lived happy, fulfilled and faithful lives. All, except one couple where bereavement had supervened too early, took the opportunity of Civil Partnership when the 2004 Act came in. Your acquaintance among gays strikes me as thoroughly inadequate to base such strictures on.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 08:10 AM

""Grow up Steve.....do you really think homosexuals in general are fulfilled and "happy" individuals.
If they are, I have yet to meet one.
""

You grow up!

If they're not, it's because they meet too many sanctimonious bastards who want to run their lives for them.

Recognise yourself?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 10:44 AM

aketon, you obviously don't know many gay people well. You are repeating the stereotype analysis that there has to be something wrong with being gay. In fact, whether homosexual or heterosexual, I don't know many people period who are fulfilled and happy individuals. Gay is not a disease but a biological preference found in nature. I am not gay, myself, but I recognize that people are different and that difference should be respected.

That doesn't mean I have to go along with ideologies that I think are repugnant. I hope I've learned to separate the worth of an individual from their ideological proclamations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 03:51 PM

I value your opinions highly Frank, but at the end of the day they are opinions just like mine.....even Ian and Don have opinions...just the one each mind, but opinions none the less.

Time will tell if male homosexuals have the capacity to bring their behaviour into line, and infection rates down. If they are unable or unwilling to do so and are still "celebrated" by society for that behaviour, then the future looks bleak for society and homosexuals themselves.

In society you are correct in stating that there are differences, but all differences are not respected, nor should they be.

If "different" behaviour results in massive rates of ill health, then that behaviour deserves the utmost scrutiny from society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 05:45 PM

There is a story (refuted by Catholic apologists) that Mother Theresa withheld pain killers in her death houses as a matter of course. One woman, crying out in agonising pain, begged for painkillers, but was rebuffed and told that her pain was 'Jesus kissing her' for sharing the agonies of his passion. The woman cried out: 'Then please - tell Jesus to stop kissing me!'

Interesting therefore that this same bon mot was deemed to be a worthy bit as part of Mother Theresa's stand-up routine, where she delivers 'Tell Jesus to please stop kissing me' as the pay-off and has the audience rolling in the aisles. Here's a wee film of one such performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIyQyrfQS4


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Subject: RE: BS: Catholic religion response to 'today'
From: gnu
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 05:53 PM

From my question to a discusion of homosexuality and Mother Theresa?

Sick shit. I dunno why I bothered to chek back. I shant be arsed to do so again. Have your fetish fest. You deserve it.


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