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BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza

Keith A of Hertford 18 May 13 - 08:40 AM
Jim Carroll 18 May 13 - 06:02 AM
Jim Carroll 18 May 13 - 04:37 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 May 13 - 04:34 AM
Jim Carroll 18 May 13 - 04:12 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 May 13 - 03:21 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 17 May 13 - 04:53 PM
Greg F. 17 May 13 - 03:09 PM
beardedbruce 17 May 13 - 12:13 PM
Greg F. 17 May 13 - 11:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 May 13 - 10:00 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 13 - 09:48 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 May 13 - 09:28 AM
beardedbruce 17 May 13 - 08:37 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 May 13 - 08:28 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Mar 13 - 11:34 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 22 Mar 13 - 11:23 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Mar 13 - 07:46 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 22 Mar 13 - 07:18 AM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Mar 13 - 11:21 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 21 Mar 13 - 10:06 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 21 Mar 13 - 10:05 AM
beardedbruce 21 Mar 13 - 09:47 AM
beardedbruce 19 Mar 13 - 12:38 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Mar 13 - 09:15 AM
beardedbruce 18 Mar 13 - 09:04 AM
Nigel Parsons 15 Mar 13 - 10:05 AM
Greg F. 15 Mar 13 - 09:33 AM
beardedbruce 15 Mar 13 - 08:46 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 08 Mar 13 - 11:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 Mar 13 - 05:56 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 08 Mar 13 - 05:16 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 13 - 03:45 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 13 - 03:03 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 Mar 13 - 02:18 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 Mar 13 - 02:11 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 13 - 06:20 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 Mar 13 - 05:46 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 Mar 13 - 05:40 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 Mar 13 - 05:28 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 13 - 03:24 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 13 - 03:19 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 06 Mar 13 - 06:26 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 06 Mar 13 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,999 06 Mar 13 - 05:14 PM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 13 - 01:02 PM
GUEST,999 06 Mar 13 - 12:32 PM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 13 - 11:35 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 06 Mar 13 - 10:32 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Mar 13 - 08:15 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 May 13 - 08:40 AM

Opposition publications do not give the view of government.
State run publications do, and they blamed Hamas.
So, the Egyptian government, advised by its security services, know that Hamas was complicit, and is also complicit in the current abductions.

Why should anyone give a shit who Don Wysiwig or you want to blame, for your own deeply prejudiced reasons?


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 May 13 - 06:02 AM

"Why else did they pour sewage down the tunnels and have state run publications blame Hamas?"
You've been give the counterclaims ages ago - you dismissed it at the time because you said the main Egyptian opposition newspaper it came from was "an obscure journal and that the Egyptian Government "should know what they are talking about"!!!
Your blanket support for terrorist regimes appears to encompass all cultures and know no boundaries.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 May 13 - 04:37 AM

That would be "a despotic government over the claims of an opposition trying to introduce democracy into the country"
Just as long as we know!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 May 13 - 04:34 AM

Economic reasons for stopping trade?
Rubbish.
Not taking sides Jim, but do you deny that Egypt held Hamas responsible and that BBC states it as fact?

Why else did they pour sewage down the tunnels and have state run publications blame Hamas?


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 May 13 - 04:12 AM

"Egypt itself blamed Hamas."
A gentle reminder.
The Egyptian opposition to the present regime have dismissed the Government's claims of the reasons for closing the tunnels and have put them down to economic reasons.
You have described the human rights record as being "worse than Israel's" yet once again you are choosing to side with a despotic government over the claims of an opposition trying to introduce democracy into the country right Keith?
"Which side are you on" - a "terrorist Egyptian regime or the findings those trying to depose it?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 May 13 - 03:21 AM

Don, this discussion is about the tunnels and the killing of Egyptian soldiers that led to their closure.
You blamed Mossad even though Egypt itself blamed Hamas.
What did they know, right?

The BBC clearly also believes Hamas responsible.

The attackers crashed across the border to Israel and were engaged and destroyed by IDF.
Reason could not lead anyone to blame Israel.
Only a massive, bigoted prejudice against one country.
Right Don?


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 May 13 - 04:53 PM

""You cannot help it. It is a salient feature of racism, positive or negative, and it is possible to be negatively racist.

We keep putting up two sides and you always reduce them to Israel is WRONG.
""

There is ample evidence in several threads that this is a total reversal of the truth.

Ther are multiple posts from me stating that both sides bear blame for what is happening.

There is a total dearth of anything from you or your minority hating lapdog which in any way is critical of the actions of the hardline Zionist government that currently uses the IDF as a tool to ethnically cleanse Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 May 13 - 03:09 PM

Why should I talk to Don, Beardy? Nowhere did he claim that Israelis were a "race". That's all you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 13 - 12:13 PM

Talk to Don T, Greggie boy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 May 13 - 11:47 AM

Sorry, Beardy, but Israelis are not a "race". Better go re-take that high school anthropology course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 13 - 10:00 AM

Yes Don.
Are you still hoping to blame Israel for that attack at Rafah?


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 13 - 09:48 AM

Don T


Given two alternatives, without direct knowledge of which is correct, you have always chosen that which criticizes Israel.

You cannot help it. It is a salient feature of racism, positive or negative, and it is possible to be negatively racist.

We keep putting up two sides and you always reduce them to Israel is WRONG.
.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 13 - 09:28 AM

This relates to the border attack which led in Egypt flooding tunnels.
Hamas/Iran activists operating from Sinai were held responsible.
Same BBC piece.
Sinai has become increasingly lawless since President Hosni Mubarak was ousted in 2011.

Islamist militants in northern Sinai have used the lack of central authority to carry out attacks across the border into Israel.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22565286


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 May 13 - 08:37 AM

As for the need to feed Gazans,...


LOUISVILLE, Ky. (CBS Cleveland) - A new company has emerged in the Middle East that smuggles fast food from an Egyptian Kentucky Fried Chicken to Gaza residents through a tunnel.

People in the conflicted region can now satisfy cravings for food from the Louisville-based fast food headquarters by ordering through a company that charges the American equivalent of $30 for smugglers to bring the greasy goods from Al-Arish in Egypt to the doorsteps of hungry customers.

Deliveries take approximately three hours, according to the Christian Science Monitor. But for those who use the business, the end result is worth the wait.

"It has been a dream, and this company has made my dream come true," accountant and Gaza resident Rafat Shororo told the publication while getting his delivery.


Mohammed al-Madani, who manages the company's finances, said that the idea for the business came from their own craving for KFC. An associate of his decided to call a friend in Al-Arish with a request to bring chicken through the tunnel to their location.

When the plan worked, al-Madani saw an opportunity.

"[W]e asked ourselves, 'Why don't we provide this service for Gazans?'" he said. "After getting the orders, we call our partner in al-Arish and ask him to make the orders. After getting the meals, he goes to a specific tunnel and asks smugglers to transfer them into the other side of the tunnel; this may take a few minutes."

Once the associate orders the food and brings it to the specific tunnel used for the deliveries, tunnel smugglers such as Abu Iyad complete the transfer, though they are not accustomed to assisting in food deliveries.

"This is the first time to smuggle such goods," he told the Monitor.

Once on the Gaza side of the tunnel, Hamas police officers give the chicken permission to go to the delivery person who completes the final leg of the trip.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 May 13 - 08:28 AM

BBC today.
Egyptian police have sealed off the Rafah border crossing with the Gaza Strip in protest at the abduction of seven security personnel in Sinai.

Reports say police locked the gates and placed barbed wire at the entrance.

Rafah is the only regular exit from Gaza for 1.6m Palestinians living there. Other crossings into Israel are allowed only in exceptional cases.

The three policemen and four soldiers were captured while travelling in the peninsula, east of El Arish.

Four of the men worked at the Rafah crossing, reports said.

An Egyptian security official said the Rafah crossing will remain closed until the group is released, the Associated Press news agency reported.

The Palestinian Maan news agency said Gaza's Interior Ministry declared a state of alert along its border with Egypt and large numbers of Egyptian soldiers have been in the area.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 11:34 AM

Your confidence in Egypt's declaration of blame owes more to your devotion to Israel than to common sense.
No.
Why else did they pour sewage down the tunnels and have state run publications say who did it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 11:23 AM

""Neither of us is in a position to say who did or did not do it.
Egypt is, and has made it very clear who they blame.
""

The first sentence is correct and sensible.

Your confidence in Egypt's declaration of blame owes more to your devotion to Israel than to common sense.

Given two alternatives, without direct knowledge of which is correct, you will always choose that which favours Israel.

You cannot help it. It is a salient feature of racism, positive or negative, and it is possible to be positively racist.

We keep putting up two sides and you always reduce them to Israel is RIGHT

Don T.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 07:46 AM

tell me that you really believe Mossad would be incapable of such action.
They might be capable, but it is hard to believe they would make a suicide attack into Israel.
Seriously Don?

I'm not saying they did it
Neither of us is in a position to say who did or did not do it.
Egypt is, and has made it very clear who they blame.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 07:18 AM

Instead of making childish remarks, why not for once open your mind (if any) and actually consider the points I make, then tell me that you really believe Mossad would be incapable of such action.

I'm not saying they did it, I'm simply pointing out that it would make more sense than Hamas deliberately shhoting itself in the foot.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 11:21 AM

It is clear from their actions, never mind their publications, who Egypt blames for the attacks.
Yet you know better?
Your sources of intelligence are presumably much better than silly old Egypt's security forces.

Don, you lose all rationality and reason whenever Israel is mentioned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 10:06 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 10:05 AM

""" a state-owned Egyptian magazine published a report accusing Hamas of orchestrating the killing of 16 Egyptian soldiers in the Sinai Peninsula in August 2012 — one of the bloodiest attacks against the Egyptian army in decades."""

Still no proof that the killers were Palestinian. For Hamas to kill those Egyptians simply made no sense, when they were trying to get some rapport with Egypt.

As to the Egyptians going along with the preferred line (by the back door of ""a state-owned Egyptian magazine"", well they've seen what happens to people who upset the Israelis and they've enough problems already.

It would have been more credible if the Egyptian government had come straight out with it.

So, no rapport between Hamas and Egypt. Score one more success for Mossad??

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 09:47 AM

not a peep from the Anti-Israel crowd...


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 12:38 PM

If it had been Israel killing 16, they would have yelled loud enough...



But they do not care about lives, just attacking Israel.


Statement of fact : Demonstrated by posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 09:15 AM

" a state-owned Egyptian magazine published a report accusing Hamas of orchestrating the killing of 16 Egyptian soldiers in the Sinai Peninsula in August 2012 — one of the bloodiest attacks against the Egyptian army in decades."

You missed that one Jim.
Not obscure enough I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 09:04 AM

Egypt says 7 Palestinians deported to Gaza
By MAAMOUN YOUSSEF | Associated Press – Sat, Mar 16, 2013
Email
Share161
Print
CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian authorities deported seven Palestinians to the Gaza Strip after they were detained for security reasons upon their arrival to Cairo airport, the state news agency said Saturday.
It was the latest indication of growing tension between the Palestinian militant movement Hamas in Gaza and Egyptian President Mohammad Morsi, who hails from the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood group from which Hamas is an offshoot.
The Palestinians were arrested in the same week that a state-owned Egyptian magazine published a report accusing Hamas of orchestrating the killing of 16 Egyptian soldiers in the Sinai Peninsula in August 2012 — one of the bloodiest attacks against the Egyptian army in decades.
Hamas officials deny involvement in the deadly attack and also say the seven Palestinians were wrongfully held.
Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said in a statement that Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal assured the group's supreme guide, Mohamed Badie, that "Hamas and all the Palestinians respect Egypt's security and do not intervene in its internal affairs."
The two met at Badie's office in Cairo on Saturday.
Mashaal also told Badie that the Palestinians consider Egypt a "strong pillar of support for the Palestinian issue and appreciate the sacrifices of Egypt and the Egyptian army."
Hamas had poor relations with former longtime Egyptian ruler Hosni Mubarak, who cooperated with Israel in imposing a blockade on the Gaza Strip after the Islamist group seized control there following elections in 2005.
After Egypt's 2011 uprising that ousted Mubarak, the Muslim Brotherhood rose to power in Egypt, raising hopes in Gaza that Cairo's relationship with the enclave would improve.
The Palestinians, who were flying from Syria to Cairo, were detained on Tuesday because they did not have exit stamps, the state-run MENA agency reported. They were released three days later after investigations showed no illegal activity.
Syrian authorities do not stamp passports issued by the Palestinian Authority, which has a measure of limited self-rule over Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Instead, they stamp papers that Palestinians hold as proof of entry and exits instead.
"Thank God for their safe arrival," leading Hamas official Mousa Abu Marzouk wrote on his Facebook page.
Cross-border tunnels are another issue that has raised tension between Egypt and Gaza.
For the past several weeks, Egyptian authorities have been destroying smuggling tunnels that crisscross the Egypt-Gaza border. Gaza smugglers use the tunnels to ship cheap fuel, scarce construction materials and commercial goods into the territory, which is largely under an Israeli-Egyptian blockade. Other tunnels are used to haul in weapons and sneak in militants.
The Egyptian effort appears to be aimed at closing down the illegal routes to better control what is going in, but Hamas has accused Egypt of destroying the tunnels in order to halt a thriving smuggling trade that has propped up the local economy for the past five years.
Egypt's military, in particular, appears to view Hamas with suspicion, in part because the smuggling network into Gaza appears to overlap with Islamist militant groups in the Sinai Peninsula. The defense minister recently warned that the military is prepared to confront "anyone who dares to harm Egypt's security or armed forces."


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 10:05 AM

Egypt sh*ts down tunnels to Gaza

What a difference a vowel makes!


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 09:33 AM

and use contraception

Kind like Catholics & fundagelical "Christians"[sic] ya mean, BB?

You obviously need to review the status of Women under certain sects of Christians as well as under Orthodox, Conservative, Hasidic & Lubavitcher Judaism.

If you want to keep claiming that you're giving "fair and balanced" information about both sides.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 08:46 AM

...


Egypt's Islamists warn giving women some rights could destroy society

By Michelle Nichols
UNITED NATIONS | Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:03pm EDT
(Reuters) - Egypt's ruling Muslim Brotherhood warns that a U.N. declaration on women's rights could destroy society by allowing a woman to travel, work and use contraception without her husband's approval and letting her control family spending.

The Islamist movement that backs President Mohamed Mursi gave 10 reasons why Muslim countries should "reject and condemn" the declaration, which the U.N. Commission on the Status of Women is racing to negotiate a consensus deal on by Friday.

The Brotherhood, whose Freedom and Justice Party propelled Mursi to power in June, posted the statement on its website, www.ikhwanweb.com, and the website of the party on Thursday.

Egypt has joined Iran, Russia and the Vatican - dubbed an "unholy alliance" by some diplomats - in threatening to derail the women's rights declaration by objecting to language on sexual, reproductive and gay rights.

The Muslim Brotherhood said the declaration would give "wives full rights to file legal complaints against husbands accusing them of rape or sexual harassment, obliging competent authorities to deal husbands punishments similar to those prescribed for raping or sexually harassing a stranger."


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 11:07 AM

We'll see, if and when it actually happens!

If the Bedouin are left where they are or moved to high crime areas I shall have a lot more to say to you.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 05:56 AM

Of course, what is actually being built is townships, not villages, where farming as a way of living is not an option.

"Different types of villages will be established to meet the respective needs of their
residents. The eight new villages will be in a variety of formats: urban, suburban, or
agricultural, depending on their residents' needs. For example, some settlements will
have special sheep pens constructed just outside the village, to cater for the villagers'
flocks, while other villages will have plots of land for farming adjacent to residential
zones."


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 05:16 AM

""Generally, the problem is that new homes must be provided without rendering anyone homeless, however grim their habitation is.
So new villages are built before the old camps are abandoned.
""

Disingenuous! A new village could easily be built right alongside the existing one, involving no removal and leaving only the carting away of the debris of the old village. That way the people would be able to continue farming in their traditional way, and be self supporting.

Of course, what is actually being built is townships, not villages, where farming as a way of living is not an option.

""The distances involved are trivial.
The Negev is a small area of a tiny country.
""

Amazing! Just a few posts back you were saying that it was impossible to supply basic facilities, because ""the fact that the Bedouin are dispersed over an extensive area prevents the state from offering these public services.""

At every turn you slither away from answering the questions you are asked, in favour of presenting a predigested mantra you have learned by heart.

You would have made a wonderful politician, devious, evasive, economical with the truth and completely devoid of any desire to debate issues openly and honestly. In short, you would be a genius at the art of toeing the party line.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 03:45 PM

If they are spending that money, why not spend it on building where the unrecognised Bedouin villages currently are.
In some cases that actually is being done.

Generally, the problem is that new homes must be provided without rendering anyone homeless, however grim their habitation is.
So new villages are built before the old camps are abandoned.
The distances involved are trivial.
The Negev is a small area of a tiny country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 03:03 PM

Those Bedouin live in isolated camps and small villages in tents and tin shacks.
No sanitation or services.
Israel is spending billions to give them the same services as they supply to all citizens.
Bedouin are full citizens in Israel, unlike their poor wretched brethren in Egypt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 02:18 PM

And once more you ignore a simple but inconvenient question.

If they are spending that money, why not spend it on building where the unrecognised Bedouin villages currently are.

You see there are two lies there.

1. The Negev Bedouin are in villages. Israel refuses to recognise them because to do so would negate the excuse that they are spread over a huge area which canot be supplied with facilities.

2. There will be no difficulty in supplying the Israeli settlers who take over that land and those villages will be bulldozed and replaced with state of the art dwellings, much too good for Arabs.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 02:11 PM

""These services can only be provided to
those living in permanent housing, and the fact that the Bedouin are dispersed over an
extensive area prevents the state from offering these public services.
Israel is currently building eight new villages or towns for the Negev Bedouin.
""

But when the Bedouin are gone, the resources to supply multiple Israeli settlements which will take over the livestock farming formerly done by those Bedouin, will undoubtedly appear as if by magic.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 06:20 AM

In precisely what way does Egypt's human rights abuse record make it somehow alright for Israel to abuse human rights, at any level?

I am not convinced of Bedouin rights abuse, and in any discussion of their treatment it is valid to compare how different states deal with the same issues.
Bedouin Israelis have equal rights, enforceable by law, as all citizens. How their Egyptian brethren must envy them.

Likewise, there are services that Israelis can enjoy, but Bedouins do not - and that comes in the form of proper healthcare, access to clean water and other socioeconomic rights they are not given

No.

"Israel provides its citizens with high quality public services in sanitation, health
and education, and municipal services. These services can only be provided to
those living in permanent housing, and the fact that the Bedouin are dispersed over an
extensive area prevents the state from offering these public services.
Israel is currently building eight new villages or towns for the Negev Bedouin.
These townships are intended to meet all the present and future needs of this
population.
The government of Israel has allocated more than NIS1 billion for the benefit of
this population. Aside from building new townships for the Bedouin in the Negev,
the Israeli government plans to invest more than NIS 1 billion in a multi-phased
program to improve the infrastructure of existing Bedouin towns and to develop their
public facilities."


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 05:46 AM

FROM YOUR OWN POST KEITH!

"" -snip- For comparison, Al Jazeera on Egypts Bedouin.

"The problem also stems from the fact that there are services that Egyptians can enjoy, but Bedouins do not - and that comes in the form of proper healthcare, access to clean water and other socioeconomic rights they are not given" Heba Morayef, the Cairo officer for Human Right's Watch, says. -snip- ...
""

Likewise, there are services that Israelis can enjoy, but Bedouins do not - and that comes in the form of proper healthcare, access to clean water and other socioeconomic rights they are not given

""-snip- Bedouins also complain that the government has marginalised them from modern Egyptian society. -snip- ...""

Israel, of course, is just getting around to this, with plans to put the Bedouin in townships and give Israelis the land vacated, with all the benefits that the Bedouin have been denied..

""-snip- "The government does not take into account that they are dealing with a culturally different people, there is no consideration for their ethics and values in their dealings." -snip-""

And that completes the comparison, with Israeli Bedouin taken away from their hereditary land and deprived of the ability to support themselves as they have for 600 years, and made vassals to the greed of Israeli settlers.

So, NOT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE EGYPTIAN MODEL!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 05:40 AM

FROM YOUR OWN POST KEITH!

"" -snip- For comparison, Al Jazeera on Egypts Bedouin.

"The problem also stems from the fact that there are services that Egyptians can enjoy, but Bedouins do not - and that comes in the form of proper healthcare, access to clean water and other socioeconomic rights they are not given" Heba Morayef, the Cairo officer for Human Right's Watch, says. -snip- ...""

Likewise, there are services that Israelis can enjoy, but Bedouins do not - and that comes in the form of proper healthcare, access to clean water and other socioeconomic rights they are not given"

""-snip- Bedouins also complain that the government has marginalised them from modern Egyptian society. -snip- ...""

Israel, of course, is just getting around to this, with plans to put the Bedouin in townships and give Israelis the land vacated, with all the benefits that the Bedouin have been denied..

""-snip- "The government does not take into account that they are dealing with a culturally different people, there is no consideration for their ethics and values in their dealings." -snip-""

And that completes the comparison, with Israeli Bedouin taken away from their hereditary land and deprived of the ability to support themselves as they have for 600 years, and made vassals to the greed of Israeli settlers.

So, NOT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE EGYPTIAN MODEL!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 05:28 AM

""I think it a perfectly reasonable fact to throw in the balance.""

You think....

I have for some time doubted your ability to do that.

In precisely what way does Egypt's human rights abuse record make it somehow alright for Israel to abuse human rights, at any level?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 03:24 AM

The Bedouin.
You and Jim have posted propaganda about Israel's treatment of them.
I have posted evidence that Israel is doing all that could be reasonably expected of any nation.

I have also pointed out that Bedouin are subject to real persecution in neighbouring states and that it is unfair to single out Israel.
In your opinion that is breaking some unwritten rule.
I think it a perfectly reasonable fact to throw in the balance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 03:19 AM

Only Keith and BB, occasionally backed by Bobad, have presented a totally one sided case.

Do not be silly Don.
You lot put the case against Israel and only the case against. We reply with Israel's side of the story.

That is how debate works.
It shows how weak your case is that you object to others putting a different viewpoint.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 06:26 PM

""Also Egypt for their treatment of Bedouin 999, as my post 05 Mar 13 - 06:05 AM""

Advance that as a mitigating argument in any court and it will be ruled inadmissible on grounds of irrelevance.

Yet Keith repeatedly and futilely tries to use it to exonerate Israel from blame ""Because Egypt is worse"".

Irrelevant yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 06:19 PM

""Human Rights Watch which has often taken Israel to task has also taken Hamas (as representing Palestinians) to task. But I suppose no one is interested in that, huh?""

No fair Bruce!

Read my posts, in which I keep saying that 1). Both sides are guilty and 2). None of us know who is lying and who is not, and we should be examining some criteria such as "Who stands to gain?"

What we should not be doing is claiming, without presenting evidence, and without acknowledging that there are two sides to argument, that only one side of the story can possibly be right.

Only Keith and BB, occasionally backed by Bobad, have presented a totally one sided case.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 05:14 PM

Thanks, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 01:02 PM

Also Egypt for their treatment of Bedouin 999, as my post 05 Mar 13 - 06:05 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 12:32 PM

Human Rights Watch which has often taken Israel to task has also taken Hamas (as representing Palestinians) to task. But I suppose no one is interested in that, huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 11:35 AM

The Mena report does not say the tunnels were not used and does say that they came from "inside Gaza."

Are you aware of any sentient being or source in the whole world who disputes those events Don.

Even Hamas only deny responsibility for it.
I acknowledge their version and make no assertion, but point out that no-one believes them except you Don.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 10:32 AM

""The official MENA news agency said the gunmen were "jihadists" from inside the Islamist Hamas-run Gaza Strip.""

Dressed as Bedouins, Hamas disowns them and says it had nothing to do with the attack, nobody has, as yet proved their identities and the Egyptian government says "Some of them came through the tunnels from Gaza", but the MENA quote suits you better, so you no longer believe the Egyptian line you have been pushing for the last week.

VERY CONVINCING!....NOT!

Of course, if they are in Israel, they can conveniently vanish from sight and we'll never know whether they were Mossad deliberately destroying any possible rapport between Gaza and Egypt,...WILL WE?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 08:15 AM

"The new villages are being planned in full consultation with representatives of
the people who will populate them. Designs for the new villages fully address the
needs of the Bedouin population of the Negev since tribal representatives have been
closely involved in planning the villages and addressing their populations' needs.
Different types of villages will be established to meet the respective needs of their
residents. The eight new villages will be in a variety of formats: urban, suburban, or
agricultural, depending on their residents' needs. For example, some settlements will
have special sheep pens constructed just outside the village, to cater for the villagers'
flocks, while other villages will have plots of land for farming adjacent to residential
zones.
To maintain the local character, the Israeli government leases hundreds of
thousands of dunams of agricultural land to the Bedouin, at a symbolic cost of up
to NIS 2 per dunam. The state wants to help the Bedouin continue their farming
Page 5 of 10
activities, and it leases hundreds of thousands of dunams annually for a symbolic
amount of up to NIS2 per dunam per season."


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