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BS: Pope resigns

GUEST,Peter Laban 11 Feb 13 - 06:14 AM
Richard Bridge 11 Feb 13 - 06:40 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 11 Feb 13 - 06:52 AM
Stu 11 Feb 13 - 06:53 AM
gnu 11 Feb 13 - 07:04 AM
GUEST,Eliza 11 Feb 13 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 11 Feb 13 - 07:17 AM
freda underhill 11 Feb 13 - 07:24 AM
Dave Hanson 11 Feb 13 - 07:30 AM
selby 11 Feb 13 - 07:49 AM
Charmion 11 Feb 13 - 08:28 AM
Les in Chorlton 11 Feb 13 - 12:36 PM
akenaton 11 Feb 13 - 12:50 PM
Ron Davies 11 Feb 13 - 01:06 PM
GUEST,Musket sans cookie 11 Feb 13 - 01:07 PM
GUEST,mg 11 Feb 13 - 01:09 PM
frogprince 11 Feb 13 - 01:10 PM
Jim McLean 11 Feb 13 - 01:16 PM
Little Hawk 11 Feb 13 - 01:34 PM
DMcG 11 Feb 13 - 01:36 PM
theleveller 11 Feb 13 - 01:38 PM
Mrrzy 11 Feb 13 - 01:38 PM
Acorn4 11 Feb 13 - 01:39 PM
theleveller 11 Feb 13 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Eliza 11 Feb 13 - 01:52 PM
Rapparee 11 Feb 13 - 01:55 PM
Rapparee 11 Feb 13 - 01:58 PM
Will Fly 11 Feb 13 - 02:00 PM
Megan L 11 Feb 13 - 02:00 PM
Will Fly 11 Feb 13 - 02:01 PM
Richard Bridge 11 Feb 13 - 02:08 PM
Will Fly 11 Feb 13 - 02:10 PM
frogprince 11 Feb 13 - 02:14 PM
bobad 11 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack in the ether 11 Feb 13 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Eliza 11 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 11 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 11 Feb 13 - 02:58 PM
DMcG 11 Feb 13 - 03:07 PM
Amos 11 Feb 13 - 03:08 PM
The Sandman 11 Feb 13 - 03:11 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 11 Feb 13 - 03:14 PM
Richard Bridge 11 Feb 13 - 03:27 PM
Noreen 11 Feb 13 - 03:32 PM
Megan L 11 Feb 13 - 03:41 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 13 - 03:58 PM
JennieG 11 Feb 13 - 04:07 PM
GUEST,Grishka 11 Feb 13 - 04:12 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 13 - 04:14 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 11 Feb 13 - 04:20 PM
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Subject: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:14 AM

In a complete surprise move the Vatican has confirmed Pope Benedict is to step down.

Article


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:40 AM

I suspect someone has found out where his personal bodies are buried.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:52 AM

BBC Live News


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Stu
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:53 AM

Old Nazi resigns from outdated, corrupt oppressive institution isn't news - Villa beat West Ham yesterday! That's news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: gnu
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:04 AM

Benny quit? Holy shit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:10 AM

It's apparently the first time in over 600 years that a Pope has actually resigned. I just read the full text of his retirement announcement. It seemed rather touching in its humility. If he is feeling his age and is also probably ill in some way, it's natural that he cannot continue. It will be interesting to see who will be elected to take his place. Perhaps a younger man? Or maybe a black Pope?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:17 AM

'maybe a black Pope?'

The bookies' favourite seems to be Peter Tuckson from Ghana, so maybe the time for an African pope has come.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: freda underhill
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:24 AM

It's possible he may have developed some illness like dementia, or some sort of cancer. That's the only circumstance under which I could see him willingly standing down, unless, as has been suggested by Richard, there is a scandal about to break.

He wasn't a Nazi, he was conscripted by the Nazis and deserted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:30 AM

England beat Ireland in the 6 Nations.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: selby
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:49 AM

When he took the job originally many pundits thought he was a "caretaker" pope whatever the reasons for his retirement does it mean the favourite is now ready and groomed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 08:28 AM

And Wales "upset" France in Six Nations play, according to the CBC. According to Edmund, France are still upset, having had their arse handed to them.

As for the Pope, he's old and frail. Of course he's abdicating.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 12:36 PM

"does it mean the favourite is now ready and groomed? "

Are you sure you want to use this phrase in this context Selby?

What I want to know is - "Does the Pope sh*t in the woods"

Best wishes


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 12:50 PM

I think the "black Pope trick" would be excellent....that would shut up the "liberal religiphobes".....   :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:06 PM

"Old Nazi".    Nice to know Mudcatters are so objective and well informed, especially when it comes to religion.   

Gee, I wonder if the poster is an atheist.

If so, perhaps he didn't read the thread about guidelines for atheists. Espcially the part about tolerance.   As I noted earlier, it seems likely that for quite a few Mudcat atheists, the idea of their giving religious tolerance a try has been unfortunately but unavoidably postponed til the day after hell freezes over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:07 PM

Even better Akenaton, even a gay pope?

That would shut a few up too eh?

Sorry, forgot. Being gay is a sin in catholic eyes, as opposed to covering up rape of young boys which for some reason isn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:09 PM

If only we had strong decent men and women (perhaps we do but I can't name them) to replace him. My biggest fear is the cardinal from ny was running for pope and might actually get it but he is under such legal scrutiny similar to C. Mahoney that I think his chances are way less than they were. Please don't let him be pope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:10 PM

Ake, don't you think a gay black female pope would be even better in that regard?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Jim McLean
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:16 PM

According to the Roman Catholic faith the pope is infallible. Does mean He is not now infallible and, with a new pope, there would then be two infallibles?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:34 PM

The ultimate "Game Change" possibility would be a black, female, lesbian Pope with learning disabilities. (This also applies to USA presidential picks.)

Jim - There have been periods in history when the Catholic Church was rocked by internal schisms which resulted in 2 officially recognized Popes being in power in different places at the same time...both claimed as infallible by their separate adherents...and most definitely not in agreement with each other. At around the time of Joan of Arc, for instance, there was one Pope in Southern France and another in Rome, and the church (which extended throughout all Christendom at that time) was divided as to who was the legitimate one. The clerics who tried Joan attempted to trip her up over this and asked her which Pope she was faithful to. She confounded them by saying in return, "Is there more than one?" Since they could not say there was more than one without religiously compromising themselves, they were unable to condemn her on that point.

But...people make way too much hoo-hah about a Pope's supposed infallibility. Don't the leaders of most very hierarchical organizations act like they are infallible most of the time? And don't all their followers do what they are told, thus appearing to confirm the leader's infallibility? This is true of corporate CEOs, Presidents, Mafia Capos, gang bosses, military commanders, police chiefs, and hierarchical bosses of all kinds throughout society. THEY get to decide. Everyone else is expected to obey, follow orders, or get fired, court-martialed, excommunicated, demoted, etc. It's standard behaviour in a million different secular hierarchies, not just in the Catholic Church, and people make a big deal out of it in regards to the Catholic Church just so they can enjoy hurling a little spite at religion for the 85 billionth time. It makes them feel good to do that...so they search constantly for another opportunity to do so. This says nothing about religion, and a great deal about the meanness of the human ego.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:36 PM

According to the Roman Catholic faith the pope is infallible
No he isn't - it is much more subtle than that. There's no reason anyone outside the RC church should worry about the nuances, but that doesn't mean they should be unaware that they exist.

As for a gay, black, female pope - I wouldn't object, personally, but the odds are very much against it! A pope open to gays, married and women priests is also a long shot, but there's no reason it should not happen eventually, and it could even be this time in theory. I don't know of any such cardinal, personally, but there is always scope for the occasional surprise (Pope John XXIII, for example)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:38 PM

He took his own advice and pulled out early. Now he's waiting for the second coming.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:38 PM

I think he doesn't want to go down in history as the Pope who presided over the Catholic Church having to accept homosexuality as a natural possibility, the way they had to with left-handedness. I think he knows that the Church will lose the fights over priests marrying, women being ordained, and a bunch of other sexual bigotry that is about to go by the wayside.

Kinda like C. Everett Koop quitting after the big research project on abortion showed that it wasn't bad for women, so he wouldn't be the Surgeon General when that came out.

Hee hee. I said "come out..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Acorn4
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:39 PM

Apparently one of the reasons is failing eyesight; perhaps he wants to become a football referee?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:41 PM

"the idea of their giving religious tolerance a try"

Hmmmm...not something this Pope is famous for. Anyway what does religious tolerance have to do with being an old Nazi?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:52 PM

Just watched him on the News. He really is astonishingly frail, and it's obvious he isn't able to continue, so I don't think it's due to an impending scandal. He was forced into the Hitler Youth (as were many) and is basically an avowed monk and great theologian. He tried to hold the line on Catholic doctrine, being of a conservative mind. No Pope is infallible all the time, just when pronouncing doctrine on special occasions. (As I understand it. I'm an Anglican, not RC. Joe Offer may be able to explain it to us.) I find the mockery and insulting remarks here a bit hard to take. This is about the man himself and not about Religion in general or RC scandals etc. I see him as courageous, devout and humble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:55 PM

There have been African and even black Popes before. Not many, and early on. Check out the history of the Papacy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:58 PM

Besides, I don't understand why race would matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:00 PM

I'm not religious in any way, and I have no feelings for Catholicism, the Pope or any other aspect of religion.

But... if you take the trouble to read about Ratzinger, you'll learn that, far from being an "old Nazi", he was coerced in to the Hitler Youth movement and deserted from it.

If you take the trouble to read a little further, you'll find out that (a) he was one of the oldest cardinals to be elected Pope (in 2005) and (b) he was on the point of retirement and didn't really want to be Pope in the first place. His main secular love was playing the piano.

If an old man genuinely feels that he can no longer take the strain of being the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church - with all that that entails - why criticise him? He may or may not have condoned some of the ills which have beset the church over the years - if so, those things will be on his conscience.

Even we atheists can have a little compassion occasionally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:00 PM

They say ignorance is bliss Jings there must be a lot of ecstatic folk on mudcat. But then some folk have never let truth stop them from their wee diatribes against religion.

Not my belief system but live and let live.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:01 PM

Megan - we cross-posted, but I agree with you all the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:08 PM

What I have noted is that it seems to be generally agreed that his views have been very reactionary. Even by the standards of that church.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:10 PM

Fair point, Richard. Might that be a function of his age, in fact?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:14 PM

The absurd part is the hyped notion that this is a stunning crisis for the RC church, let alone the whole world. He's shown the intelligence and grace to spare the institution from having to stumble along with the pretext of having a leader. A lot of people will be hoping for a more open-minded successor, but it won't serve much purpose to stress over something we have absolutely no influence on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM

A Cardinal dude from Quebec is apparently among the frontrunners for the gig:Canadian Cardinal Marc Ouellet among frontrunners to replace Pope Benedict XVI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack in the ether
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:17 PM

The Nazi thing was tounge in cheek (the bit about the institution wasn't), but he did serve in the Werhmacht before he had it away on his toes when it was obvious the game was up.

The news just said he abolished purgatory. That was nice of him.

Anyway, he condemned many to a long, slow death from aids for the want of allowing some of the most vulnerable in his flock to stick a nodder on their jake. I bet Jesus loves that.

The papal bull is, apparently 90% horsemeat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM

Rapparee, you're right, the race of a new Pope shouldn't matter. But each part of the world likes to be able to identify with the Pope. I heard that Africa has the fastest growing numbers of Catholics, and it would encourage them to have a black Pope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM

Surely if the next incumbent is to be a black, female,lesbian Pope with learning difficulties she should only have one arm or leg and be colour blind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:58 PM

What is really worrying is that Governments and the media give so much time and respect to a 2000yr old fairy tale!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:07 PM

Well, its a matter of opinion but a decision that affects many millions for good or ill, both in the way the live generally and in specifics of things like aids seems to be a good deal more newsworthy than most celeb stories, football matches, whether a cyclist did or not take drugs and a heck of a lot of other stuff that passes for news


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:08 PM

How do you "retire" from being the Voice of God on Earth? Do you have to turn in your handset? What if you kept getting message traffic from the Infinite? Without the Office, what would you do? Perhaps become a beleaguered prophet? What of you kept getting messages and they conflicted with those being received and promulgated by the New Pope? Would Cahos be unleashed amongst the followers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:11 PM

It's possible he may have developed some illness like dementia, or some sort of cancer. That's the only circumstance under which I could see him willingly standing down, unless, as has been suggested by Richard, there is a scandal about to break.

He wasn't a Nazi, he was conscripted by the Nazis and deserted.
can you prove he was not a nazi, anyway he is a backward looking old fart and a boring old fart , even more of a boring old fart than joe stead


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:14 PM

Religion is a very malicious drug!
Should the media and Governments defer to drug pushers?
I don't think so!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:27 PM

While a black Pope would be OK as such, much of the "Catholic Christian" church in Africa is horrifyingly repressive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Noreen
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:32 PM

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to have an intelligent debate on Mudcat -like when I first joined- without foul-mouthed, narrow-minded abusive posts from those who feel they have to comment on every topic even when they know next to nothing about it?

I am no apologist for the Pope or for the Catholic church, but the resignation and succession have great relevance for many, worldwide- and as such I find it interesting.

If you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion, perhaps you could go and chat somewhere else please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Megan L
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:41 PM

Unfortunately certain people in the cat these days are all for free thought as long as we think what they tell us


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:58 PM

I reccomend Pope Richard    Dawkins
Pope Steven                Hawking


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:07 PM

Catholics have given up the Pope for Lent?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:12 PM

Respect for those who see when it's time to resign and do so.

As for a black pope, like Obama he may never be considered black enough, if he refuses to celebrate Black Masses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:14 PM

We also need some new Cardinals;
Cardinal Ray Kurzweil, Cardinal Lawrence Krauss but best of all...
Cardinal Jenifer Micheal Hecht

Required reading list to select the best people alive;

The Age of Spiritual Machines, The Singularity Is Near
The Meme Machine, Conversations on Consciousness, Creationism's Trojan Horse
The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ, The Golden Compass
Four Laws That Drive the Universe, Galileo's Finger, Doubt: A History, The End of the Soul, Hiding in the Mirror, What Is Secular Humanism?, Science and Religion,


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Subject: RE: BS: Pope resigns
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 04:20 PM

What these defenders of religion seem to forget is that religion is imposed on us!
In the States, if you are not a Christian, you will NEVER become president ( i.e. if you don't profess to follow a 2000yr old myth. you will not win an election!)
Now that is nonsense! Very dangerous nonsense!

In the UK, sittings in the Houses of Parliament start with prayers!
That is crazy!

For the sake of the nations sanity, anyone who professes to believe in God should be banned from political life!


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