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BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit

JohnInKansas 11 Dec 12 - 01:41 PM
Joybell 11 Dec 12 - 03:43 PM
JohnInKansas 11 Dec 12 - 04:22 PM
Bill D 11 Dec 12 - 05:18 PM
Greg F. 11 Dec 12 - 05:52 PM
Bill D 11 Dec 12 - 06:46 PM
Greg F. 11 Dec 12 - 06:55 PM
Amergin 11 Dec 12 - 09:08 PM
Bill D 12 Dec 12 - 11:13 AM
Bill D 12 Dec 12 - 11:17 AM
Greg F. 12 Dec 12 - 12:35 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek 12 Dec 12 - 02:39 PM
Joybell 12 Dec 12 - 02:41 PM
JohnInKansas 12 Dec 12 - 08:18 PM
Joybell 13 Dec 12 - 03:05 PM
Greg F. 13 Dec 12 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz 13 Dec 12 - 05:40 PM
Bill D 13 Dec 12 - 05:46 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Dec 12 - 06:06 PM
Greg F. 13 Dec 12 - 06:29 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Dec 12 - 07:30 PM
Greg F. 13 Dec 12 - 08:47 PM
EBarnacle 13 Dec 12 - 09:24 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Dec 12 - 11:29 PM
Bob Bolton 13 Dec 12 - 11:45 PM
EBarnacle 14 Dec 12 - 11:38 PM
Joe Offer 15 Dec 12 - 02:09 AM
JohnInKansas 15 Dec 12 - 06:44 AM
Greg F. 15 Dec 12 - 09:12 AM
Joybell 15 Dec 12 - 03:22 PM
Greg F. 15 Dec 12 - 03:47 PM
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Subject: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 01:41 PM

Apple's Aussie map glitch: Snakes! In the desert!

Staff, Reuters
10 Dec 2012

Mildura police shared this Apple Maps screenshot (picture at link) as an example of why not to use the app, with motorists becoming stranded at Murray-Sunset National Park in Australia.

CANBERRA — Australian police have warned travelers off using Apple's troubled iPhone mapping software after several motorists became stuck in a snake-infested, desert corner of the country while using their phone for directions.

Police in southeast Victoria state said they had been forced to rescue a number of motorists who had become stuck for up to 24 hours "without food or water" after being directed to the arid Murray Sunset National Park, instead of the tourist town of Mildura, 43 miles away.

"We had a fellow trapped in there just on Friday night after his car became bogged. He saw a snake, a goat and a fox, and he was too scared to get out of the car," Mildura police inspector Simon Clemence told Reuters on Tuesday.

The Murray-Sunset National Park is in Victoria's far northwest, a relatively untouched semi-arid region accessible only by four-wheel-drive vehicle.

Clemence said at least six vehicles had become stuck on the desert park's sandy tracks after being directed by the iOS mapping system to turn off a long and infrequently sign-posted stretch of highway between South Australia state and Victoria.

"These people have still been rescuable. But we've just had a 46C day (115 degrees F). If they were out there in that temperature and out of phone range, they would have been in serious trouble," he said.
Clemence said police had contacted Apple over the issue. But while the world's most valuable company has now rectified Mildura's location for people traveling from South Australia, motorists seeking directions from Melbourne city were still being directed off course by iOS.

"If you punch in Melbourne to Mildura, it still puts you in the middle of the park," he said. "So they've got it half right."
In its news release, the police said: "Anyone traveling to Mildura or other locations within Victoria should rely on other forms of mapping until this matter is rectified."

Police said people should not blindly rely on technology to get them to their location, although in fairness he said people could easily become misdirected over long stretches of road along the 377-km Mallee Highway.

"There's nothing to signpost, and people are just driving and driving when their GPS phone suddenly says turn," Clemence said.

"But anyone who has used a GPS would know, they all make mistakes. You have to use your common sense and your eyes, and if it doesn't look right, then it probably isn't right."

Apple's chief executive Tim Cook apologized to customers in September for problems with the new mobile mapping application and suggested they use a rival product from Google until the multitude of errors could be ironed out.

Apple also sacked the executive behind the mapping software, and handed responsibility for hardware and software design to the company's industrial design guru Jonathan Ive.

(Editing by Michael Roddy)
© Copyright Thomson Reuters 2012.

[A Standard Oil roadmap once sent me down "Lickskillet Pass" west of Boulder Colorado. I never found a local who'd believe you could do it in a Buick.]

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Joybell
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 03:43 PM

That should read NORTH-WEST Victoria. Not SOUTH-EAST. South-east puts you in Gippsland.
Cheers, Joy from the snake-infested Western District


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 04:22 PM

Joybell -

I wondered is anyone would know enough about the area to comment on whether it's really rough enough to be a hazard.

The screen shot at the link does show a bit of a map, but I didn't check whether Google has a "street view" of the road.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:18 PM

Google Earth does have street level view of almost all those roads.... and I can't find but 2 or 3 possible place to turn that would send anyone to that park!
There is a turn at "Carwarp" that 'might' be a place to get off the main road... but I can't believe anyone would leave a main road there without asking someone.
There is one other south of Carwarp, but it is even less like a road to 'somewhere'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:52 PM

Buy a paper map. Problem solved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 06:46 PM

Some people actually cannot.. or just do not... read paper maps. I had to deal with one professionally. I asked him how he got places.
He said: "People give me driving instructions about how far to drive and what landmarks to look for and which way to turn at various places."

*I* can use a paper map just fine, (though Google makes my life a lot easier)... and it looks like in this case it would have been obvious NOT to turn off the main road.... but sheep will turn where the dog voice directs... >big>☺


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 06:55 PM

Yeah, I know, Bill - but they COULD learn to read a map, and if they choose not to, and to let a machine do their thinking for them, and obey its commands automatically, then they deserve what they get, and more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 09:08 PM

Apple Maps is a piece of shit program. Every time I try to use it, I get lost. One time, I was trying to find a place, and it told me to take a right and to only go a tenth of a mile...well, that tenth of a mile is on a bridge....which took me across a river...and I had to circle around to get back where I was. The place I was looking for is no where near where it took me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 11:13 AM

Greg... 'some' could learn to read a paper map. Some people have the map equivalent of dyslexia. They simply can't 'see' the relationship of lines on paper to the real world.

Now, the ones who could, and still blindly follow stupid directions, I guess deserve what they get


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 11:17 AM

that one and more


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 12:35 PM

I'm not talking about persons with learning disabilities, Bill- and they are a small minority of folks that use these electronic toys.

As for the others, your articles are spot on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 02:39 PM

I actually find bing maps good to use...

of course I go in and use the birds eye view to get better bearings... groundproofing.

and print out that sucker. or several of varying scales for a longer trip.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 02:41 PM

It is dangerous country at this time of the year. Although it's the heat and lack of water that's the problem not the snakes and goats and foxes. The roads in the park are sandy and unmade. Driving from South Australia to Mildura in Victoria you would turn north from Horsham or Ouyen and go past the Murray-Sunset wilderness area on a main highway. Not many towns but not wilderness. You could turn west into the park instead of keeping straight ahead if you believed Apple.
It is a dangerous mistake, I believe.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Dec 12 - 08:18 PM

The mapmaking business is apparently a difficult world, with few of what might call "successful" inhabitants.

I've used a DeLorme map program for some time, to the point where it was showing signs of being outdated. It became rather sluggish on Vista but it refused to run at all on Win7. No local vendors had a current DeLorme program so I took the risk and got Microsoft's "Streets and Trips Pro" (without the GPS).

Clearly labelled as compatible with Win7, and containing "the latest maps" the program will only run on my Win7 Pro if it's opened to "Run as Administrator." (I'll note that from my view, that makes it absolutely incompatible with GPS, since in order to use the GPS as they describe it you have to have a web/WiFi connection turned on, and I ain't about to do that while I'm on with an Administrator login.) I have one other program with about the same problem, but it's a good one so I suffer with it - and it doesn't require a hookup.

We took the program along on a laptop to look at some real estate and spent about three hours looking for one that was pinpointed precisely by the search function - unfortunately the pinpoint was 17 miles from the actual location of the address we were looking for.

Back at the house, I found a few more than a dozen streets shown as being on the opposite side of town from where they actually are, and gave up looking after less than a half hour. And that's in just one town ... .

Maybe Apple's maps are so rotten 'cause they stole them from Mickey - or did Mushysoft steal from Apple?

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 03:05 PM

On the subject of Mildura. I have to say that the highway signs are large and green and point North. Turning West into the wilderness is not something most people would do. Apparently there's a more dangerous problem down on the coast where buses and trucks are directed onto a dirt road off the Great Ocean Road. Don't know the details.
I remember when we were heading for Gila in New Mexico and a nice lady in Lordsburg told us to ignore the sign to Silver City and go up the mountain instead. It was getting dark and we didn't like the look of the narrow dirt road that wasn't on our map. We went the long way. Later our friend told us that the lady was an agent for the evil Force living in the Lordsburg Triangle. Whew! Lucky for us that night.
Joy


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 04:29 PM

One word, John: Paper.

Or possibly two: USGS (if that acronym constitutes a word)


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 05:40 PM

Don't know about YOU, but I think of traffic signals as what's SUPPOSED to happen. Hey, red light, he's supposed to stop. But I look, TWICE, as I have nearly been killed by some idiot who went through a STOP sign like it wasn't there.

Apple maps is only guide, Not reality.

And personally, if I was in a place that had snakes, etc., besides a lunch and water, I would feel SO much better if I brought along my personal choice for "snake repellant,"

Yep, I'd bring along "Old Reliable"...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSn_fhthhE LOL ;0), :0)

Peace, no really, PEACE


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 05:46 PM

So far, I have not found any errors in Google Earth that would cause problems. They give you longitude & latitude and even IF I had a GPS, I would go over my route from above first... and maybe even at ground level.

Australia seems to have ALL major routes photographed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 06:06 PM

Greg -

Your suggestions are good ones, but common paper maps tend to be (on average) about ten years obsolete when published. This isn't too much of a problem for (most) major roads, but paper is useless in new and growing development areas.

USGS databases are available for download, especially for topographical maps, but they're in a format that requires a proprietary program, and even the USGS admits that they can't make the program work to do much, because the guy who wrote it (and the only one who'd know how to fix it) retired about 15 years ago. Their paper maps are pretty good, but a little expensive unless you have a pretty specific need for details.

For best current highway information there are two or three programs that the longhaul truckers use some, but a single-use "subscription" runs to several hundred bucks per year, and my welfare check won't cover that kind of expense for the little use I have.

One can be quite secure by adopting the philosophy that "You ain't lost if you don't give a s**t where you're at." Just don't worry about it.

[Redneck version is "Everybody's gotta die someplace."]

Also suggested: "No matter which way you go you'll end up someplace else."

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 06:29 PM

No matter which way you go you'll end up someplace else

Can't argue with that, John. Got it in one.

I just think folks would be better off if they didn't let machines make their decisions for 'em & tell 'em what to do.

Of course that would take some effort on their part, which is anathema in the 21st century......

Best,

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 07:30 PM

I'd rather look at the scenery where I am, than at some toy. If I don't pay attention to what's around me, I might miss the chance to change my mind and go somewhere else, instead of where I thought I was gonna go.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 08:47 PM

Unfortunately, John, in the U.S. today, Toys R Us.

But I'm with you, 100%

Be well-

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 09:24 PM

Even in the USA, GPS can take you into the middle of nowhere. . . and does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 11:29 PM

Well now, EB, you do have to admit that there's a whole lotta nowhere in the US, and a fair bit of not much of anywhere, so maybe it's a problem for us that people elsewhere (except maybe the Aussies?) don't have so much of.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 13 Dec 12 - 11:45 PM

G'day JohnInKansas,

Yeah ... well mu 'puter just told me:

On 14 December 2012 at 03:35:14 PM (Canberra time), the resident population of Australia is projected to be: 22,839,886!

As Australia is about the size of the 48 ~ 'contiguous states' of America ... there's actually quite a lot of "nowhere" to go round ...

... and a lot of it is basically under a loose claim by a few (native) dingos (native wild dogs) ... a lot of 'feral' dogs (from elsewhere) an assortment of the world's ten deadliest snake species ... a few million kangaroos (and other locals that have a million years' start on us in surviving beyond the green, wet coastline) ... and very little to sustain lost city-dwellers!

Maps are interesting aids ... GPS programs are risky ( ~'trendy' ~) substitutes ... and good planning does wonders for life expectancy.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Dec 12 - 11:38 PM

Not long ago, we allowed our GPS to take us down a lane in Princeton which Madam Geepus swore was a shortcut to the main road. We ended up on a dead ended dirt road but with enough room to turn around carefully.

Recently, that device and another died so Lady Hillary got one on eBay and another from a big box store [initials BB]. The two, running side by side, gave completely different routes to reach the same place. Both of them differed from the built in in the Honda van, which was our usual route.


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 02:09 AM

Joy, how often do you see snakes? John in Brisbane often invited me to visit him - and just as often, he took delight in telling me about the snakes around and under his house. I never got the courage to visit.

I'm supposed to be in rattlesnake country here in the Sierra foothills of California, but I've seen only one baby snake that had a triangular head like a rattlesnake - I'm still not sure it was a rattlesnake. We have lots of tiny racers that look like worms; and we see a beautiful gopher snake or king snake for about a week, once a year. If this is snake-infested territory, I don't mind. But if you see dangerous snakes all the time, that's another matter.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 06:44 AM

For most people around my vicinity, seeing a snake is rare but dangerous - for the snake. There generally have been very few dangerous snakes in Kansas, with the exception of an occasional rattler in isolated places in the NE part of the state. There may be rattlers in the western part, but nobody worries much about them. They're just part of the landscape.

For a long time there were no poisonous "water snakes" in the state, but people - mostly fishing - probably killed hundreds of "water mocassins" every year that were actually harmless natrix. As of about 20 years ago, the people informed on the subject asserted that only ONE water mocassin was confirmed in the state, in around 1876(?) during a massive flood in which the water in the rivers flowed backward up from Oklahoma and carried one up here.

Within the past decade, however, there have been confirmed reports of a dozen or so true mocassins (cottonmouth) in the SE part of the state, and a possible increase in prairie rattlers is suspected. Climates do change, apparently.

A single isolated site hss been infested with scorpions not native here, to the point that it's been "closed to tourists" occasionally. It's believed that these "residents" hopped a ride with a tourist sometime in the early or mid 1920s and set up housekeeping. It's at an isolated "bump" in the landscape called "Coronado Heights" from the local assumption that someone from Coronado's expedition might have climbed it to view the landscape. (The tradition is totally unconfirmed.) The change in elevation, and associated local micro-climate keeps the scorpions pretty well confined there, although they have been joined by periodic population bursts of black widow spiders of unknown ethnicity.

The only thing really deadly here is the weather and the distances between "civilizations" when one gets off the main highways, esp. in the western part of the state. A couple of "ranches" are more than a hundred miles wide "out west," with populations <30 or so most of the time.

The real hazard is that you don't need a dangerous climate or nasty wildlife to hurt yourself if you choose to be STUPID (or excessively ignorant). People still do that occasionally, although running out of gas on an Interstate highway where the fuel stations are 80+ miles (120 km) apart (and may close at sundown) can be somewhat excused.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 09:12 AM

I'm curious, John - how do you differentiate excessively ignorant from just plain ignorant? And do the outcomes differ substantially?

;>)


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 03:22 PM

John of Kansas opens with a sentence that's relevant here in Australia. Meeting a snake is much more dangerous for the snake. Several of our snakes come out as being the among the most deadly in the world if their venom is measured under test conditions. This is good for scaring people and for killing mice. Because of the shy nature of our snakes and the angle of their fangs they have trouble injecting enough venom to kill a human. And why would they want to? We're too big to eat. Under certain conditions usually involving multiple bites people can die but it's very, very rare. Most people are bitten when they attack a snake. Having said that some of us get bitten by mistake. I crossed the path of a big Copperhead while wearing the wrong clothes for long-grass walking. It was trying to get away and it bumped into my leg, giving me a reflex nip. I spent a night in hospital under observation, after giving myself first aid, but very little venom actually got into my bloodstream.
To answer your question, Joe, we live with snakes that are a welcome part of our ecosystem. We see them all the time but they flee as soon as they feel our presence. A big Tiger Snake flattened its neck like a Cobra when I startled it in the hen-house the other day. It fled a few seconds later as they always do -- if they can.
We live with Tiger Snakes, Brown Snakes, and Copperheads.
Silly stories about snakes abound in Australia.
Poor Snakes. It's very unfair. Bees, and horses, and dogs, kill far more people.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: BS: Apple Sends Aussies to Snake Pit
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Dec 12 - 03:47 PM

It's very unfair. Bees, and horses, and dogs, kill far more people.

And then, of course, there's PEOPLE killing people, which far surpasses all other creatures.


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