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No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?

DigiTrad:
NO MAN'S LAND
NO MAN'S LAND (3)
NOBODY'S MOGGY'S LAND (No Moggy's Land)
WILLIE MCBRIDE'S REPLY


Related threads:
Lyr Req: The green fields of France (39)
Lyr Req: Green fields of france PARODY (27)
No man's land protest (276) (closed)
Lyr Req: No Man's Land (Eric Bogle) (46)
Lyr Req: Willie MacBride's Answer to Finbar Furey (11)
Greenfields of France parody... (34)
Alternative lyrics to 'Willie McBride -Flower (7)
Green Fields of France (48)
Lyr Req: Green Fields of France Parody (14)
Lyr/Chords Req: Green Fields of France (Engli (26)
Lyr/Chords Req: No Man's Land (15)
Lyr Req: Parody on Green Fields of France (26)
Lyr Req: Willy Mc Bride (41)
Lyr Req: Willie McBride (Parody) (6)
(origins) Green Fields of France (10)
Lyr Req: Green Fields of France^^^ (22)
Lyr Req: Willie Mc Bride's OTHER reply (2)
Lyr/Chords Req: green fields of france (4)
Lyr Req: no man's land parody (3)
Lyr Add: Willie McBride parody - new chorus (5)
Lyr Add: Not Willie McBride (7)
Lyr Add: The Green Fields of France (12)
Lyr Req: Parody of Willie McBride (21)
Lyr Req: Parody of Green Fields of France (5)
Lyr Req: Willie McBride / No Man's Land (5) (closed)
Chords for The Green Fields of France/No Mans (3)


bradfordian 09 Nov 12 - 08:37 AM
Elmore 09 Nov 12 - 08:52 AM
Dave Hanson 09 Nov 12 - 09:11 AM
Leadfingers 09 Nov 12 - 10:56 AM
Georgiansilver 09 Nov 12 - 11:00 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 09 Nov 12 - 11:55 AM
Elmore 09 Nov 12 - 12:21 PM
GUEST 09 Nov 12 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 09 Nov 12 - 12:59 PM
Elmore 09 Nov 12 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,Jock 09 Nov 12 - 01:58 PM
GUEST,Azoic 09 Nov 12 - 01:58 PM
GUEST 09 Nov 12 - 02:47 PM
Elmore 09 Nov 12 - 03:01 PM
michaelr 09 Nov 12 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,Peterr 09 Nov 12 - 05:10 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 09 Nov 12 - 07:12 PM
kendall 09 Nov 12 - 07:36 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 09 Nov 12 - 08:19 PM
Elmore 09 Nov 12 - 10:31 PM
kendall 10 Nov 12 - 06:15 AM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Nov 12 - 06:37 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Nov 12 - 06:59 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 10 Nov 12 - 07:48 AM
Elmore 10 Nov 12 - 10:13 AM
kendall 10 Nov 12 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Grandad8 10 Nov 12 - 10:47 AM
Elmore 10 Nov 12 - 10:59 AM
Edthefolkie 10 Nov 12 - 12:42 PM
michaelr 10 Nov 12 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,Frug 10 Nov 12 - 08:02 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 11 Nov 12 - 06:03 AM
Leadfingers 11 Nov 12 - 06:34 AM
kendall 11 Nov 12 - 06:34 AM
kendall 11 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,Blandiver 11 Nov 12 - 08:15 AM
Elmore 11 Nov 12 - 09:49 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 12 - 10:46 AM
GUEST 11 Nov 12 - 11:37 AM
kendall 11 Nov 12 - 11:53 AM
Elmore 11 Nov 12 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 11 Nov 12 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 11 Nov 12 - 12:28 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 12 - 12:36 PM
GUEST,Blandiver 11 Nov 12 - 01:03 PM
Elmore 11 Nov 12 - 01:29 PM
Elmore 11 Nov 12 - 01:55 PM
kendall 11 Nov 12 - 02:28 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 12 - 02:34 PM
Elmore 11 Nov 12 - 03:13 PM
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Subject: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: bradfordian
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:37 AM

I came across a RAP version of this song a few years back but having done a search, it's not turning up here. I can't quite put my finger on it just now, maybe it came from elsewhere.
Can anyone point me to it please?


brad


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:52 AM

What a dreadful thought. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 09:11 AM

Didn't you mean c rap version ?

Dave H


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 10:56 AM

The Folk Process is one thing , but a Rap version of Bogles song is sacrilege !


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 11:00 AM

An RIP version maybe but never rap....... defo sacrilege!


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 11:55 AM

It's the other way round actually - the thoughts that a music as wonderful & life-affirming as Hip-Hop could be any way sullied by such godawful mawkish tripe as No Man's Land is too much for me to bear. I was going to keep this to myself but seeing the usual Mudcat bigoted idiocy trotted out here I thought I'd try & redress the balance.

Tonight I'll be wearing my poppy with pride, and I'll be singing My Boy Jack & Banks of Sicilly - two songs which acknowledge the humanity of war as grim necessity without disrepecting those heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice, as No Man's Land does. It may have happened again, and again, but their deaths were not in vain.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 12:21 PM

BALDERDASH.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 12:57 PM

'but their deaths were not in vain'.
So, what exactly was achieved by the millions killed in that war Blandiver? Just asking!


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 12:59 PM

Sorry, Elmore - but there's a lovely big vibrant world outside of the Folk Box, it's full of great pop, classical & traditional music & lovingly realistic world views that revere the those heroes brave enough to fight & die for what they believed in without having some revisionist peacenik pissing on their graves.

Still, could have been worse, eh? At least it wasn't The Band Played Waltzing Matilda...


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 01:52 PM

Blandiver: Based on our disagreement over one song, you're making unwarranted assumptions about the lack of diversity in my musical taste and knowledge. I'm 71 years old and currently taking courses in the works and lives of Robert and Clara Schumann, and operas based on the plays of Shakespeare. In my time I've seen artists as diverse as Billie Holiday , Isaac Stern, Charles Aznavour, and Ravi Shankar in concert. So take your condescending remarks about"a lovely big vibrant world outside of the Folk Box, and stuff them up the hole in your culture.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: GUEST,Jock
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 01:58 PM

>>So, what exactly was achieved by the millions killed in that war

Speculation is an inexact science but the forces that shaped Nazism would still have existed in a victorious Germany. With an improved polity and better economics, there would ultimately have been another world war, but with a far higher chance of going the other way.

I'm old enough to have known many who fought on the Western Front, but for what it's worth, they widely agreed that they had done something worthwhile.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 01:58 PM

If you are open to suggestion,please try auditioning June Tabor's reading of this epic.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 02:47 PM

Well, whoever is doing it, go back to the source; Eric Bogle. The various versions based on the Furey's butchering of the song are all over the internet, and bear little resemblance to the words written by Bogle. You'll be surprised just how wrong it is.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 03:01 PM

A lesser known, but excellent version, with the original lyrics is done by Priscilla Herdman on one of her earlier albums. Still, nothing beats hearing Eric perform it in person, which I was lucky to do on one of his final North American tours. A charming man, and a talented singer and writer.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 03:18 PM

...disrepecting those heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice, as No Man's Land does

Just how does it do that?


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride
From: GUEST,Peterr
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 05:10 PM

I wonder if Baldiver and I are thinking of the same song? Or indeed if he/she has tried to sing 'The band played 'Waltzing Matilda' without choking up? I know I can't.
Is the 'Banks of Sicily' referred to the Hamish Henderson song? It's great but in my opinion of a very different sentiment (as in genre rather than sentmental)


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 07:12 PM

you're making unwarranted assumptions about the lack of diversity in my musical taste and knowledge

No - I'm making assumptions based on your BALDERDASH post.

Is the 'Banks of Sicily' referred to the Hamish Henderson song? It's great but in my opinion of a very different sentiment (as in genre rather than sentmental)

My point exactly, BOS doesn't preach, just paints a wee vignette of wartime experience - by one who actually experienced it. There's no message here, or heavy handed moral bullying. I didn't sing it tonight anyway - I didn't feel I could get through it without choking, so I went for The Long Peggin' Awl instead.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 07:36 PM

Anyone who trashes Eric Bogle within my hearing could end up wearing his instrument.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:19 PM

What was I saying about heavy handed moral bullying????


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 10:31 PM

Blandiver: Given your hostile attitude, it's impossible to take you seriously, so I won't waste my time responding to you again. Good night, and good luck.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:15 AM

Old proverb, "If you know the dog bites..."


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:37 AM

Here's a German version, by Hannes Wader - "Es ist an der Zeit" Perhaps Blandiver might think this also disrespects "those heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice". I don't think it does, in English or German. Quite the reverse.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:59 AM

Cat among the pigeons
A song about a song rather than a war
Jim Carroll

Willie Macbride You Bastard You
Crawford Howard (adapted by Fintan Vallely

Oh, youse know that big long song about Willie MacBride,
Well, to tell yis the god's truth, it turns me inside,
You'll hear it on the Shankhill, you'll hear't on the Falls,
And mostly from people who can't sing at all,
You go out to the pub on a Saturday night,
For a pint and the crack, a-and things are all right
'Till some boy with his shirt out
Slumps down by your side —and says:
"Zing-zzz z'wunn zbouzz Wllee Mmm-Bride,"

Ah, you say you don't know it (but this will not do)
For his plan all along has been to sing it to you.
He knocks over your drink, and takes off in a key
That wasn't constructed for Pava-Rotti;
And with the lines grinding on, Oh, the horror gets worse,
As it slowly sinks in—that he knows every verse.
With his arm round your shoulder, by now he's your friend—and
He's determined to sing this damn thing to the end.

CHORUS:
Did he sing the song badly?
Did they gulp their pints madly?
Did we all fall asleep before we'd finished our round?
Did the barstaff cry, "Last drinks" to stir us?
Did the punters cry, "Thank God it's o-o-o-ver"?

You slip out to the jacks for a quart'r of an hour,
Kill time at the TV set out in the Bar,
And then you sneak back thinking he might have tired,
But he's still choking on gas, tangled up in barbed wire;
And for ten minutes more he continues this rant
Again, and again, and again till you can't
Care that he's up to his oxters in gutters in trench—es, or give
Two tupp'ny damns where the red poppies dance.
CHORUS

Oh, Willie MacBride why the hell did you die?
The trouble you'd have saved if you'd come back alive.
If you'd got a good job, or signed on the b'roo—
We wouldn't have to endure this ould mush about you.
Aye but maybe it's better for you that you're dead
With the green fields of France piled up over your head;
For the trouble you've caused us since that day you died,
Oh, rusty shrapnel's too good for you, Willie MacBride.
CHORUS

And you—Eric Bogle, just what was your game?
White crosses mark out the road to your fame.
Could you not guess the Fureys might drive us insane?
Can you not call them off?—Jasus, we're not to blame!
And why d'you complain about shellfire and smoke?
Sure with PA and cig'rettes, the pubs are no joke.
Where we drink to his mem'ry each weekend we're broke
Makin' Willie Mac Bride's fans consumptive ould soaks.
CHORUS


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 07:48 AM

I'm not hostile; not yet do I bite. It is not me screaming BALDERDASH in upper case, nor dismissing one of the most vibrant manifestations of Popular Traditional Music as 'crap'; neither do I threaten violence to those of a different opinion. All I'm doing is expressing an alternative view born of certain experience of having lost friends / family in various wars down the years.

When I was fifteen I knew a chap who'd lost both legs at Dunkirk when he was only fifteen himself, having lied about his age to join up. That was in 1976 - he would have been 51 when I knew him - same age I am now. We used to sit in the graveyard smoking together, looking out over the gravestones, across the pitheaps, pitheads and rolling farmland - the contented old soldier and the idealistic young hippy with his dulcimer. But I knew that I owed my every freedom to heroes like him whose bravery I still cannot conceive of and will be eternally grateful for.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:13 AM

peace


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:45 AM

Actually, if I am not on Prednisone I wouldn't really assault anyone for having poor taste in music; I would simply walk away.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Grandad8
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:47 AM

So is there a rap version of the song?


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:59 AM

Found a rap called No Man's Land on Youtube, but it was not the Eric Bogle song.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:42 PM

OK, so Sean's got a blind spot about "Matilda" and "No Man's Land". Big blooming deal. And I'm somewhat confused - is Eric Bogle a revisionist who pisses on graves then? Do me a favour, old cock.

Most of us have relatives who served, were wounded or died in the Great and other wars. My great uncle was shell shocked and I only remember him as a poor old trembling wreck. Many old soldiers echoed Eric Bogle's sentiments. I give you the late Harry Patch - "Too many died. War isn't worth one life. War was the calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings". Not unadjacent to "And the young people say - What are they marching for? And I ask myself the same question".

I also, maybe unfairly, give you Rudyard Kipling. "My Boy Jack" was written by a man who is supposed to have pulled strings with Lord Roberts to get his half blind son an army commission - with the inevitable result.

"Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?"

Cor, what a revisionist.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:01 PM

Blandiver: I'd still like you to explain disrespecting those heroes who made the ultimate sacrifice, as No Man's Land does

Just how does it do that?


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 08:02 PM

If anyone finds this please let me know as I'd love to hear it. As to those who condemn it without a hearing well come on lighten up. Rap is a very significant musical development and performance style , maybe Willie would have enjoyed it too!

If you listen to original rap lyrics there is a lot of protest, social comment and documentary in there much like folk music.. of course there is crap too just like there is beaucoup de crap in folk music .. Don't condemn it out of hand otherwise you condemn yourselves


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 06:03 AM

I wouldn't really assault anyone for having poor taste in music

Why are Folkies so damn righteous? I blame the legacy of prescriptive moralising that typified the early revival and the religiosity of the Folk Orthodoxy thereafter. No Man's Land is a classic example of such righteousness. I've often toyed with writing a song in which the ghost of Private William McBride answers Eric Bogle's mawkish tripe - I think it would be quite short: Feck off, hippy - go sing about something you actually know about.

This is why I love Traditional Song - no one's preaching at you, just telling it like it is. But right from an early age I'd be going into folk clubs, weeping to The Plains of Waterloo and sitting in grim disbelief when it would be followed in the next breath by The Band Played Waltzing Matilda as if they were somehow related. I guess I never did have the Folk Gene...


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 06:34 AM

Blandiver - You are entitled to your opinion but you devaalue that opinion when you say No Mans Land is mawkish AND preaching , then start preaching yourself about music !


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 06:34 AM

It's been my experience that folkies have a much higher than average IQ than most others.
To me, rap is not only not music, it is an annoying, unnecessary noise.Repititous, boring and juvenile.

If you like rap, rock,elevator music etc. thats your problem. This site is clearly dedicated to folk and blues.It is YOU who is in the wrong sand box. To come in here and think you are going to trash our music without feedback is like a child telling us what to read.We will always prefer War & Peace to Batman comics.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM

I'm still on prednisone.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 08:15 AM

then start preaching yourself about music !

Hey - I don't preach. I urge & inform. There is a not-so subtle difference. Especially in the light of Kendal's hilarious claims regarding the Folk IQ.

To come in here and think you are going to trash our music..

Steady on there, Kendal - I am a life-long lover of Traditional Folk Song & Ballad; I live it and I breathe it, and I come here to celebrate that fact by digging over the mulch & minutiae with those of a similar cast o' mind. To this end I've been seduced into the Folk Scene as pretty much the only place where I can go to sing & listen to such music with a bunch of hearty rogues, ne'erdowells & curmudgeonly old farts (all of whom I love dearly) to get pissed, smoke fags* & roar along with 1000's or more in part Seance, part Holy Communion and part Fellowship with all men, and women, who sing.

The downside to this Traddy Glory is that every now and then someone feels compelled to sing No Man's Land (or something very like it), and everyone else feels compelled to weep along with the noxious sentimentality of the thing. Sometimes, you can't always run for the bar; sometimes, you're trapped, and so must listen. It's one of the real hazzards of Folk Clubs - being preached at in the assumption that just by being there you're going to agree with such mawkish mush. Not me. I'm not one of the converted to be preached at - and I never will be. If I want a song about soldiers I'll sing Bellamy's setting of Kipling's Ford o' Kabul River or Tommy or something suitably Traditional like The Fox Jumps Over the Parson's Gate or the aforemention Plains of Waterloo.

We will always prefer War & Peace to Batman comics.

Which reminds me, did you know the working title of War and Peace was War - What is it Good For? This charming piece of trivia inspired the Edwin Starr classic of the same name. Me - I think I'd prefer the Batman comics.

* Though I gave uop smoking 12 years ago, and cigarettes in public houses are a thing of our remote past, in my heart the ideal singaround is always conducted through a fug of beer stench and thick delicious fag smoke.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 09:49 AM

Blandiver: I thought I was through with you, but I can't help myself because you remind me so much of someone in my family who is intelligent, successful and charming, but , on occasion, a pain in the ass.In your first entry you revealed the forty pound chip on your shoulder, and have continued to do so in subsequent rants. Okay. As far as I'm concerned, You've won the argument you initiated. In the process you've made many of us angry and upset. Feel better now? Perhaps that was your goal.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:46 AM

"Hey - I don't preach. I urge & inform"
Arrogant crap.
No you don't - you only tear down the work of others without offering anything in its place.
You despise collectors, yet there isn't a traditional song (which you claim to love) that hasn't come to you in one form or another other than through the hands of a collector
You deride researchers, yet you offer no sign that you have done any research yourself - easier to tear down something somebody else has constructed rather than produce something by your own efforts.
You ridicule folkies, yet your own output is 'folkie at it's most has -beenish, rather reminiscent of the bunch of ageing punks that used to hand round Chealsea's Kings Road on the corner of Royal Avenue up to a dozen years ago - they maybe still there if they haven't joined Monty Python's Norwegian Blue.
You even belittle the efforts of the thousands of youngsters coming to traditional music here in Ireland for the first time, who have ascertained that that music will survive for at least another couple of generations.
You seem to by trying to make a name for yourself by telling us how bad everybody else is rather than cleaning up your own act.
Whichever of your numerous identities you adopt on this forum, your contempt for others gives you away each time.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 11:37 AM

Strange how one question "Is their a rap song?" can lead to so much hatred, no wonder in the world we all live in people can't answer yes or no. No wonder wars start and the innocent suffer. In this case we who wait for the answer to "Is there a rap song" must witness two people arguing about stuff that has no bearing on the question.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 11:53 AM

I don't hate anyone.Can you imagine what would happen if one of us went to a Rave and started singing Lord Randall?
My point is, there is a place for everthing, and this aint the place for rap, rock or any other non music crap.
Like smoking, if you must pollute the air, take it outside.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 12:20 PM

Guest: I suggest you look more closely at this thread and the initial entry by the person who turned the thread into a quarrel. It was mean-spirited and hostile. By inference it was an attack on an artist whom many of us love, and is impossible to go unchallenged. Once again, I believe it was a deliberate attempt to agitate many of our members. It worked. Much earlier I stated tha a rap version of the song in question was a terrible idea. I stand by that , but it doesn't mean that I'm attacking an entire genre, or the people who are part of it. If I could type, I'd continue this harangue.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 12:20 PM

You despise collectors / You deride researchers,

You misunderstand my position. I'm all too aware of the debt we owe to the collectors, just as as I'm all too aware of the gulf of class condscension that informs the Revival in general and the concept of 'Folk' and 'Folkore' as a whole. Even unto this day the general demographic of Folk is middle-class and has little to do with the working-class men & women who made & sang these songs* in the first place.

yet you offer no sign that you have done any research yourself

My opinions are based on a life time of empirical research; I'm not making this stuff up. As a kid we were 'told' that The Blackleg Miner was a traditional song from out local villages of Seghill andf Seaton Delaval despite the fact that the only people who said this were our middle-clas teachers and no one had ever heard of it. Now it seems A L Lloyd wrote himself based on an American song. I grew up with music in a working-class context - everything from Kipling to stories of Paul Robeson, Northumbrian pipes, Krautrock, punk etc etc. The only people doing 'Folk', with significant exception, were middle-class revisionists.

easier to tear down something somebody else has constructed rather than produce something by your own efforts.

There's nothing to construct; the Folk Scene is there, I'm just being honest about it - telling it like it is, not tearing it down. I believe Harker's Fakesong, Bob Pegg's Folk (and Rites & Riots, and Boyes' Imagined Village have done the same thing.

You ridicule folkies

With some good reason - but not without masses of respect...

yet your own output is 'folkie at it's most has -beenish,

I just do what I do, Jim - there's nothing deliberate about it one way or the other, althoughy I'm proud that whilst I've never been played on Radio Two, I've been featured three times over the years on Radio Three.

You even belittle the efforts of the thousands of youngsters coming to traditional music here in Ireland for the first time, who have ascertained that that music will survive for at least another couple of generations.

Not so. I might be wary of it - I might not even like it - but certainly I don't belittle it. I love the old players & the old music (Seamus Ennis, Felix Doran et al) but to my ears there a big difference between that & what people are doing today. Disparity - or just personal taste.

Whichever of your numerous identities you adopt on this forum

I want to change my name officially, but Joe Offer in his infinite wisdom won't let me. I make no secret of who I am.

your contempt for others gives you away each time.

I have no contempt for anyone - neither have I expressed any - not even to you with your overblown & deeply personal attempts at character assassination, such as this one.

Nice one, Jim!

   
* By which I mean Traditional songs & lore, and the Idioms thereof.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 12:28 PM

Once again, I believe it was a deliberate attempt to agitate many of our members.

I'm sorry if it upsets your fundamentalist leanings, but all I was doing, and am doing, is expressing my opinion about A SONG. This is my right and entitlement. I've also explained why I hold those opinions about that song. I am not trying to agitate anyone and only entered this thread in response to a series of petty statements deriding Hip-Hop.

Go look closely yourself - it's all there in black & white! So please, kindly keep your nastiness to yourself.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 12:36 PM

Once again you dole out denials which in no way justify, or even explain your arrogantly destructive approach on virtually every thread you pontificate on.
I think the pits was your out-of-hand dismissal of the music the kids are playing here at present - you show not indication that you are aware of what is going here - but then again, you don't bother qualifying any of the stones you throw.
Your continuing dismissal of folkies is little more than self-flagellation as your work personifies a folkiness that has long been abandoned by the revival.
As for my "deeply personal attempts at character assassination," - I suggest you try to work out the effect your own sneery snide has on those who do the work rather than pontificate.
It's interesting to see that your unpleasant and constant sniping has drawn some response from others - personally I'd written you off as an armchair tosser.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 01:03 PM

Is that the same arm chair tosser you were wanting to swap notes with a few weeks back? What the hell are you on, man?


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 01:29 PM

Blabdiver: My empirical evidence demonstrates that we agree that the rap version of THE SONG would be dreadful. As for my nastiness, I leave it to others to decide who's the king of nasty in this thread.How can we miss you if you won't go away?


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 01:55 PM

Sorry for the above typo. I meant to address Blandiver, not Blabdiver. (honest)


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:28 PM

Name calling lowers the thread even further.


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:34 PM

"What the hell are you on, man?"
Somebody else who can't take what he dishes out regularly and at great length - nothing new there either
I'm off
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version?
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 03:13 PM

Damn. I declared myself out of this thread, then jumped back in. Sorry if I've offended anyone. This only happens to me when somebody takes a shot at a peformer that I admire. Oh, well. 30 years of therapy down the drain. Guess I'll go for a drink.


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