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Republican or Conservative folk singers

Related threads:
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right-wing 'folk' (44)
Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative (290) (closed)
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Lyr Add: Conservative ballads (19)
Folk Songs of the Far Right Wing (36)


MGM·Lion 18 Oct 12 - 05:49 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Oct 12 - 06:05 AM
Leadfingers 18 Oct 12 - 06:34 AM
Allan Conn 18 Oct 12 - 08:10 AM
Stringsinger 18 Oct 12 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,Desi C 18 Oct 12 - 08:48 AM
musicmick 18 Oct 12 - 09:41 AM
Howard Jones 18 Oct 12 - 10:06 AM
Elmore 18 Oct 12 - 11:00 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Oct 12 - 11:59 AM
Stringsinger 18 Oct 12 - 12:41 PM
MGM·Lion 18 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Oct 12 - 03:23 PM
GUEST,Tony 18 Oct 12 - 04:49 PM
musicmick 18 Oct 12 - 11:35 PM
Howard Jones 19 Oct 12 - 04:23 AM
GUEST,davemc 19 Oct 12 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,raymond greenoaken 19 Oct 12 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 19 Oct 12 - 07:09 AM
Jim McLean 19 Oct 12 - 08:27 AM
GUEST 19 Oct 12 - 09:12 AM
GUEST 19 Oct 12 - 10:55 AM
GUEST 19 Oct 12 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 19 Oct 12 - 11:25 AM
Wolfgang 19 Oct 12 - 04:47 PM
MartinRyan 19 Oct 12 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,Tony 19 Oct 12 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,Tony 19 Oct 12 - 05:42 PM
musicmick 19 Oct 12 - 07:08 PM
pdq 19 Oct 12 - 08:11 PM
oldhippie 19 Oct 12 - 09:09 PM
pdq 19 Oct 12 - 09:28 PM
musicmick 20 Oct 12 - 12:03 AM
Larry The Radio Guy 20 Oct 12 - 01:31 AM
Richard Bridge 20 Oct 12 - 04:30 AM
Larry The Radio Guy 20 Oct 12 - 07:57 AM
GUEST,Desi C 20 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM
pdq 20 Oct 12 - 09:18 AM
Elmore 20 Oct 12 - 09:40 AM
Howard Jones 20 Oct 12 - 10:07 AM
Richard Bridge 20 Oct 12 - 11:26 AM
dick greenhaus 20 Oct 12 - 03:57 PM
Leadfingers 20 Oct 12 - 04:36 PM
GUEST,Don Wise 21 Oct 12 - 04:26 AM
MGM·Lion 21 Oct 12 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,Desi C 21 Oct 12 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,henryp 23 Oct 12 - 06:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:49 AM

Jim ~~ Point very much taken. Your name was out of place in that list. The others not so.

Regards

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 06:05 AM

Don't mention it Mike - let's both try harder in future.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 06:34 AM

One Right Wing Folkie of my acquaintence was a tad concerned that his friendship with Robb Johnston (VERY Talented Left Wing Songriter) might be a drawback his Political Ambition !
And Ron Shuttleworth , writer of SUPERB parodies , was definately on the Right Wing .


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Allan Conn
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:10 AM

"and the Wee Cooper of Fife would be arrested for spousal abuse"

We used to go to a singing club in Selkirk and the woman running it had chosen to do 'Wee Cooper of Fife' one week. The following week we were about to do it again when two po-faced women both declared that we couldn't possibly do that song as it stood and one produced new lyrics which she had written herself - which in all truth were pretty badly written anyway! The majority there looked slightly bewildered by it all. Some didn't say anything but gave each other exasperated looks. Various other people suggested that the song was of its time, was a humorous song anyway, and that singing it didn't mean one was condoning domestic abuse. One of the complainers then went into a long lecture about the evils of domestic abuse which was aimed primarily at me - presumably because I was the only male in the room. I must add I've never a woman in my life! Anyway the woman was being more than a bit tedious but I could have lived with that, however my other half took great objection to me being picked on and she upped and left with me in tow - as I needed a lift home :-)


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:19 AM

Bascom Lamarr Lunsford criticized Pete Seeger for singing "Down on Penny's Farm" stating vociferously that the original tune was "Robertson's Farm" and that the employer "loved"
his workers and they wouldn't complain. I suspect overt racism here.

It has to be remembered that the "folk boom" started with the interest of the Left Wing Movement, spearheaded by Pete Seeger, including many prominent folklorists of the day, offshoots of the Popular Front period.

Republicans have been traditionally wealthy individuals who would not relate to the music of the "masses".

However, in the South, there are plenty of bluegrass and old time musicians who are quite
conservative or even radically right wing.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:48 AM

Thankfully from my experience politics rarely rears it's ugly heap openly in Folk Clubs here. Even political animals like myself who do broach the subject do it rarely and it doesn't seem to illicit much interest.
I suppose it's fair to say politics was more a part of the 1960's Folk revival, but that was mainly quite Liberal possibly quasi communist in nature with anti nuclear protests, civil rights etc. Given that both Liberals and Conservatists in the UK are much the same thing and mostly for the very rich, and inceasingly against feee speech, I would class most Folk Club goers as old fashioned liberal or socialist in nature but I wouldn't describe them overal in nature as particularly political. It'll be interesting to scroll down and read others comments


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: musicmick
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:41 AM

The connection between the left and folk music, in the USA, stems from the series of concerts sponsered by unions in New York city, in the 1940s. The performers included youngsters like Pete Seeger, Cisco Houston, Leadbelly, Woody Guthry, Lee Hayes and Josh White. Those guys worked cheap and they were, all, well to the left of center.
Union locals, in other towns followed suit so Win Strake, in Chicago, George Britton, in Philadelphia and Sam Hinton, on the coast stared singing folksongs for their living. Oh, I forgot Carl Sandburg, who endd his poetry reading with a short folk concert.
But the people, whose songs these were, were as traditional intheir values as they had always been.
It was the left who politicized folk singing.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:06 AM

I suspect there's a greater range of political opinions than some on the left would like to believe. It's certainly true that folk song is more likely to be used to express left wing political views rather than those on the right, and those singers who are most overtly political tend to be from the left. However the left's caricature of the Tories as rich toffs ignores the fact that they manage to attract a sizeable number of working-class voters

I don't agree that Peter Bellamy's political views were all that evident from his singing, certainly not compared with the likes of say Dick Gaughan. As for abortion, that is a matter of conscience rather than falling on one side or another of the political divide.

It is certainly true that people espousing left-wing views on the folk scene probably feel they are likely to get a sympathetic reception. I think it is also true that those who don't share those views prefer keep quiet rather than get into arguments over politics when they just want to enjoy the music. The sort of responses this thread has generated indicates why.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Elmore
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:00 AM

Actually, I was attracted to folk music by topical (lefty) folk singers. I found it refreshing that someone would be willing to express her true beliefs on stage. That was the sixties.Later I got into more traditional music. I don't care what Peter Bellamy's politics were. I loved his songs, even loved his voice.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:59 AM

I find Bellamy's politics all too evident in his work apart from the Young Tradition, and very offputting.

As to the prevalence (to the extent that there is any such) of working class support for the present government, may I borrow and subvert the expression "Lions led by donkeys" and say "Donkeys led by liars"?   Indeed most of that IMHO comes from a scurrilous campaign of disinformation about the recipients of benefits so that the donkeys will vote against the interests of themselves and their class.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:41 PM

Musicmick, your historical view of folk music USA is completely accurate. Much of it was brought to the public by the influenced by the New Popular Front headed by CPUSA leader Earl Browder attempting to bring the culture of the "masses" into prominence.

It has to be said that "agit-prop"music has a venerable history in the U.S. even prior to Joe Hill when you find ideology in earlier forms of what we call folk music, the political ballads such as Yankee Doodle, Lilibulero, The World Upside Down and early protest music.

Calypso and Jamaican music can be classified as "agit-prop" as well.

Even Chopin wrote a "Revolutionary Etude". Beethoven had an axe to grind also.

You might be surprised to find that nursery rhymes were originally political statements such as "Little Jack Horner" (Archibald) and "Mary, Mary Quite Contrary" (Mary Queen of Scots).

A good song is a good song, agit prop or not, regardless of the motive for writing it.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM

Doesn't the rather quaint American habit of giving their children names redolent of ancient nobility tend to rebound absurdly? Fancy the CPUSA leader being called Earl!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:23 PM

"The connection between the left and folk music, in the USA...."
The politics of folk song in Britain is a multi-faceted one.
It was certainly the left who set the ball rolling there with the left wing Workers Music Association introducing MacColl and Lloyd to the public and later setting up Topic Records.
Alan Lomax, on the run from McCarthy's thugs, prodded the BBC into embarking on the mopping up campaign of recording what was still to be found in the field.
Lloyd and MacColl, both left wingers, were in the forefront of the revival involved in setting up one of the earliest folk clubs.
However, the concept of an artistically creative working class making their own songs and claiming them as their own was a revolutionary concept in itself - still difficult for some people to get their heads around.
This is not to say that all our traditional singers queued up at the polls to vote for the Labour or Communist parties, but many of them where aware of the social and historical significance of the song. Go and listen to Harry Cox spitting feathers about the forcible enclosure of common land after having sung Van Dieman's Land, or commenting "that's what the buggers thought of us", after singing Betsy the Serving maid (son of wealthy family falls in love with a servant, parents deport her to America, son dies of grief).
Richard's quote:
"If living was a thing that money could buy
Then the rich would live, and the poor would die"
was recited to MacColl and Parker by Sam Larner during the making of 'Singing the Fishing'
Walter Pardon sang the Agricultural Trades Union Song, The Old Man's Advice, and spoke with pride about his family's part in re-establishing the union in East Anglia.
I find it offensive that anybody should attempt to censor our folksongs because they don't happen to fit into their own particular mindset - they have always been a part of peoples' self expression and long may that continue to be the case.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:49 PM

As always, we're talking at cross-purposes – some of us construing "folk music" to mean what we find in the Folk bin of a US record store, others adhering to a 1950-something definition that hardly anyone has ever heard of even in the UK.

I assumed Cathy was talking about folk musicians in the former sense, since she said she's American and since her second post mentioned "medium to large venues."


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: musicmick
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:35 PM

Yes, Stringsinger, and Rockaby Baby was about Chrles II or someone, remarkably, like him.
Tony is using the pop meaning of folk music (A song sung by its composer, accompaned on acoustic guitar unless, of course, the song is played on a Country station.) I have always admired the Irish, who have maintained the popularity of their trafitional music.
Americans seem embarrassed about our trad and have adopted the "folk bin" redefining of folk music. Our ubiquitous singer/songwriters include few, or none, Cyril Tawneys, Pete St. Johns or Ewan MacColls.
I hope that Tony is wrong. The UK's trove of folk treasures deserved to be heard.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Howard Jones
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 04:23 AM

The OP was clearly American but appeared to be inviting comparison with the UK.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:35 AM

I guess the unwelcoming and closed minds in most folk clubs are likely to put off most people whose politics are moderately right of centre. You're unlikely to get many bookings unless you either completely censor your politics or parrot the leftie banalities. Choose another genre guys: "So move along, get along, move along, get along, Go, move, shift" as Jimmy of Salford might say.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:44 AM

>I find Bellamy's politics all too evident in his work<

Know what you mean, Richard: all that preachy Lefty stuff like All In A Day, Pilgrim's Way, Death Of Bill Brown, Farewell To The Land. The man had no shame.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 07:09 AM

I `ad that "Breezie" in my cab the other day. `e`d been up at `erga`s the night before doing a couple of numbers. `e was on `is way down to Wadebridge for a spot of R&R following the rucus that night.
I said, "Morning John, you look a bit miffed. What`s `appened? Your light to moderate veered to gale force?"
`e said , "Nah Jim. I did me bit and said it was all in aid of the F.A.C. and would people like to contribute. They chucked me out!"
I said, "I`m not surprised, raising dosh for the "Fellowship of Allied Conservatives" in a club like that."
`e said, "It wasn`t for them. It was for "Folk Against Cancer!!"

Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Jim McLean
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 08:27 AM

Jack, the lines immediately following my quote from Fletcher of Saltoun prove the effectiveness of ballad making, although he might have disapproved of the results.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 09:12 AM

I recently did a song that was political at a festival. It was titled "I'll Tell You the Good Things Our Government's Done, with apologies to Tom Paxton." I told the audience I'd been working on the song since 1978. A small untruth which I'm sure will be overlooked by history.

It went like this with two other voices harmonizing on the word 'done'.

Deep breath and "I'll tell you the good things our government's done."
Expel remaining air, look around the audience, step back and wait. It took about five seconds of silence and the laughter started. It lasted substantially longer than the song.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 10:55 AM


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers Eric D
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 10:59 AM

Eric Darling was a Libertarian I believed he was an Ayn Rand follower. I am not aware he wrote or sang political songs and/or preached to the audience
Having said that,he was an incredible 12 string guitarist; on par with Dick Rosmini and Fred Gerlach


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 11:25 AM

there has always been music that was used to thwart the "status quo".. otherwise, Cromwell wouldn't have felt the need to try to eliminate those pesky travelling harpers or hang the pipers.

Or consider those "darky" songs that helped runaway slaves find their way to freedom. Very illegal activity for the time. As long as there are folks who feel the need to impose their will on others... and those others aren't real pleased with that... there will be unrest, dissention, etc.

As part of the lets's put Americans to work & get the us the heck out of this depression, there was a fair amount of $ invested in "the Arts"... and that included preserving traditional music of all kinds.

What I see happening today is a lot of closed minded folks who want the rest of us to be as ass backwards as them... and a bunch of wealthy folks who want to turn democracy into an oligarchy, manipulating those folks into supporting them.   

I am a practicing GDI... god damn independent who preferes to think for herself and resents oppression of any sort.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 04:47 PM

This thread's a good enough reason to reinstate my cookie.

Even folksongs decrying injustice are not "left" by default. If I look through the titles of my copy of the "Liederbuch der Hitler Jugend" (songbook of the Hitler youth) I can see a lot of songs that originally (and after the twelve years) belong(ed) to the Left. "Brueder zur Sonne, zur Freiheit" (brethren, towards to sun and the freedom) is a trade union song still sung today by German Social Democrats at the end of each party convention. And, yes, it was sung by the Hitler youth too. Songs from peasant uprisings, songs against feudalism, against injustice of capitalism, are all found in that book.

Even the title of that Liederbuch (Uns geht die Sonne nie unter, the sun never sets for us) is a line from one of my all time favourite German folksongs praising the free life instead of the life of the bourgeoisie. BTW, the Nazi's Horst Wessel Lied used the tune from an older folksong.

Folksongs in Germany today can be sung by the Left (rather not by the extreme Left) and by the (extreme) Right.

Well, but then, the S in NSDAP stood for "Sozialistische".

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 04:52 PM

Hi Wolfgang!

I clicked on this thread grudgingly, expecting it to bring out my cormudgeonly soul - and found you had just posted! Been wondering where you were... Good to hear from you.


Regards


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:37 PM

quote: I hope that Tony is wrong. The UK's trove of folk treasures deserved to be heard.

Musicmick, you're mixing up two different ideas:

1. Traditional music should be preserved.
I agree completely and am very active in that preservation.

2. The term "folk music" can only be used to mean traditional music.
Good luck with that. Maybe you should talk to the French Academy. In English (or, as it really should be called now, American), usage determines the meaning of a word.

I often wonder how the preservation of traditional music is affected by its being associated with people who get bent out of shape at the use of a word to mean what 99% of the population think it means. If the general public ever does become aware of the music described in that 1950-whatever definition, they'll almost certainly call it "nerd music."


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:42 PM

Another reason why I thought Cathy was using "folk singers" in the vernacular sense (apart from her being an American and mentioning larger venues than any trad singer would ever get here) is the fact that she said they talked liberal politics on stage. That's actually the best clue. It even narrows it down to a small number of specific "folk" singers.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: musicmick
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 07:08 PM

Tony,

"Folk songs" is not the only term to be commandeered and redefined.
"Gay" doesn't seem to mean what it used to, either. The trouble is that while "gay" has enough synonyms to replace the original, "folk songs" does not. ("Trad" is insufficient because tradition, by nature, implies repeated usage, generally oer generations. One can no more write a traditional song than make an antique.) Folk songs, unlike other songs are defined by their tranmission or collective creation. Thus, older songs that have survived by popular repitition (Like "Happy Birthday", "Three Blind Mice", "Silent Night") live, not bcause of popular recordings. but through our own singing. Even songs that are created by groups (Like the Korean War version of "Bless 'Em All") are of and by the "folk".
I understand that some very old songs do not experience the changes of what we used to call the "Folk Process". I am thinking of hymns and anthems.
So, "Folk" is an umbrella but it's not limitless. It never meant any song written with accoustic accompaniment. If it did, Jaques Brell or Antonio Carlos Jobim would be the best folksinger of them all


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: pdq
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 08:11 PM

Too many Lefties have tried to co-opt Folk Music and use it for their political purposes.

Social comentary is not the same as politics.

Even Jerry Garcia said he was tired of people trying to use The Sixties to push their politics. He made it clear that the message was social change, not political change.

An old Appalacian singing about the poor quality and high price of food is social commentary, not political.

A Blues singer telling us how mean his old lady is? That's social also, not political.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: oldhippie
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 09:09 PM

pdq - your post "It's quite refreshing to listen to Doc Watson, Ian & Sylvia, Burl Ives and other who left politics out of their music." Have you never listened to Burl's "50 Years From Now"?


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: pdq
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 09:28 PM

Sorry, I have not heard "50 Years from Now".

I will try to correct this lacuna.

However, did you know that Burl Ives was a 33rd degree Mason (highest possible) and a Republican?


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: musicmick
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 12:03 AM

Burl Ives was a "friendly" withess during the blacklist years. He was considered an outcast by the folk establishment.
Years later, at a Weavers reunion concert, a very old and very sick Burl Ives appeared on stage and Pete Seeger, who had been hurt by Ives' testamony, embraced him.
I wrote, at the time, that Pete did an admirable thing but I kind of wished he had used him as a urinal, first.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 01:31 AM

I'd like to address briefly pdq's very important point: "Too many Lefties have tried to co-opt Folk Music and use it for their political purposes.   Social comentary is not the same as politics"...........An old Appalacian singing about the poor quality and high price of food is social commentary, not political.

For the most part I agree. Even Linda Ronstadt dedicating "You're No Good" to George W. Bush.....while inwardly I cheer....I also recognize it's a bit cheap.   

But I think that most social commentary is "small p" political...particularly when we know that even Democrats (or, in Canada, NDP'ers) who espouse concern for the poor sometimes end up supporting policies that are the antithesis to that....and most political issues are debatable.

Yet.....for those of us who believe in what I consider to be 'good' values (eg. compassion, equality, respect, openness to different), ideas, I think we have a duty to communicate those values in our performances and our songs (include the inbetween patter).

So, for example, when Mitt Romney makes comments like "I'm not concerned about the very poor", I think folksingers would be neglecting their duty if they didn't at least make fun of these comments.....and to demonstrate as effectively as possible how this is not in line with the values that many of us 'folk singers' believe in.

I do agree that somebody with conservative/republican sentiments very much has the right to write songs and to be heard.   And.....if they can communicate in a way that is consistent with what I believe are positive values, I'll listen to them.

In fact, I think Clint Eastwood, as a movie director and script writer, is one 'conservative' who does a beautiful job of that....and I love the humanity that is in most of his movies.

Off hand I can't think of any 'republican' type folk singers/writers who do that (though I'm sure some exist).

I agree there are a lot of 'lefties' who shove diatribes down our throats, and I personally find them boring. On the other hand there are so many like Utah Phillips, Tom Paxton, Fred Eaglesmith (who no longer identifies himself as a 'lefty'), Peter, Paul & Mary, Bruce Springsteen, Cheryl Wheeler, etc. who are clearly 'liberal' or left-wing and bring their small 'p' political beliefs to their performances....and they're inspiring!

But I do wonder if there are any 'Clint Eastwoods' in the folk music world. People who bring an intelligent and thoughtful conservative sentiment that can find the 'meeting place' between what we think of as left wing or 'liberal', and those that some Republicans might also embrace?


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 04:30 AM

The most striking constant feature of Eastwood's film output is his support of vigilantism and opposition to legal rights. Hardly "intelligent and thoughtful".


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 07:57 AM

While I don't want to turn this thread into a Clint Eastwood debate, the films I'm thinking of include the ones that I and most critics hail as thoughtful, 'human' (in it's most positive sense)....with a passion rather than an opposition to people's rights. Eg. Mystic River, Bird, Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby, maybe even Bronco Billy.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM

I must take issue with Howard Jones that the right wing conservative attract a lot of working class voters, That is purely down to two facts. One- 80% of British voters are rather particularly ignorant, the vote these days purely on what the media instruct them to do. For instance when the Daily Mirror was a left wing Socialist newspaper and had thge biggest circulation, most people voted Labour. These days the vast majority of our media is right wing including the very biased BBC. And not surprisingly The Sun owned by who sponsors the Conservative party (many would say in his pocket, instructs it's politically ignorant readership who to vote for. Thereore as the Sun attracts the most ignorant readers they are merely doing what they're told, not out of any special allegiance to the Conservative. To back this up you only have to remember when the Sun said vote Labour, those reliable Sun readers did as they were told. I rest my case ;)


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: pdq
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 09:18 AM

Subject: RE: Is Burl Ives underated?
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 02:12 PM

"Ives was identified in the 1950 pamphlet Red Channels and blacklisted as an entertainer with supposed Communist ties. In 1952 he cooperated with the House Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC) and agreed to testify. He stated that he was not a member of the Communist Party but that he had attended various union meetings with fellow folk singer Pete Seeger simply to stay in touch with working folk. He stated: 'You know who my friends are; you will have to ask them if they are Communists.'"

That was all he said about Pete Seeger. Lefties wanted him to ignore the sapoena and risk jail time. He chose to respect the authority of the House and attend as did Elia Kazan, Humphrey Bogart, and the vast majority of those who received a summons.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 09:40 AM

Burl's best album was "Butrl Ives Sings for the House Unamerican Activities Committee" (HUAC)


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Howard Jones
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 10:07 AM

Desi C, that seems a remarkably condescending opinion of the working classes. Do have the same objections to those poor ignoramuses who vote Labour because their union tells them to?

Political allegiances are complicated things, and people's views don't always fit into convenient categories. Large numbers of the working class have been traditionally conservative, with a small c if not a large one, and plenty of middle-class people vote Labour.

Besides, why should someone's political views have a bearing on their musical preferences? I think the question arises because those who feel strongly about politics tend to view everything through a political prism, including music. They find it difficult to understand that others may not regard music in the same way, and that people who share their taste in music may possibly not share their political beliefs.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 11:26 AM

What DesiC says is largely right if simplistic (and the BBC is not wholly right-wing as is evidenced by the constant war against it by doctrinaire free-marketeers). However it is overgenerous to the current right-wing (as distinct from the ultra-right fascistic racistic parties like the BNP EDL etc) and does lend some credibility to the not quite so fascistic racist right like UKIP whose entire "philosophy" can be summed up as "Wogs begin at Calais".

The current UK lever of choice of the right to move the working class to vote conservative is the ceaseless campaign of bigotry and vilification against the unwaged and disabled. Even the parts of conservative plans to force the unwaged into ever more desperate attempts to find work are part of the attack against the working class, for it only increases the pool of labour which must then compete in capitalist terms against each other so driving wages downwards - to the benefit of capitalists who may exploit labour by the use of zero-hours part-time contracts (which, incidentally reduce tax take and so increase the deficit - clear evidence that the strategy of war on the poor is not evidence-based but dogma-driven).

But to return to "conservatism", the basic credo of conservatism is to preserve privilege and entitlement - the advantage of the ruling class. Folk music is not the music of the ruling classes. It is the expression - at its most basic - of what were the peasant classes: the very people that the ruling classes exploit. A conservative folk singer is at best a mere parrot, at worst a quisling.

Republicans, as far as I can see, are even worse, comprised of oppressors and the tools of oppressors swallowing the propaganda of multi-billionaires.

In both the UK and the USA the skewness of income distribution has increased and is increasing. The poor do not even get the crumbs from the rich man's table that "trickle down" economics seeks to deceive that they will receive. Republicans and conservatives not only defend but aid that tendency. How can they sing the songs of the oppressed when they are the oppressors?


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 03:57 PM

Folks here seem to be much more preoccupied by "Republican or Conservative songs" rather than "Republican or Conservative singers ."


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 04:36 PM

Desi C has it right ! Some years back there was a survey which indicated that more than 60% of Sun readers , at a time when it was nearly as hard right as the Dirty Mail , thought it was a Left wing paper .


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 04:26 AM

Arlo Guthrie is quite open about being a card-carrying Republican. He is also quite open in his rejection of various current Republican 'policies'.


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 04:53 AM

The confusion over thinking The Sun a left-wing paper emanated from the fact that it was aimed in style as what were considered the tastes and preferences of the working-class, in conscious imitation of the style of the Mirror, which did lean leftwards, but a bit more 'daring' ~~ eg daily p3 nude rather than the suggestive but actually v prudish near-nudity often to be seen in the Mirror.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:18 AM

Howard I think you only make my point for me. Wha tI Was saying and maybe didn't make clear, is that the English, generally and over all 'classes' are very politically naieve, if not indeed ignorant. You'll not get any more intelligent political debate from a rich man in a wine bar than you will from a union worker in his pub. For instance just a couple of years ago we were ALL very angry at the revelation that approx 60% of MP's were fraudently claiming expenses, and the pitifully few prosecutions only added to the Fraud. just 9 months into the Condem gov't's hate campain against the out of work and the Disabled and hate crimes against those groups had risen by 36%, and the government fraud largely forgotten A hate campaign conduced ny Conservatives and Lib Dems alike and added to by Labour through their silence.
That hate crime has now risen by almost 60% and The biggest reason for that is largely ignorant British electorate, en masse, reading and listening to government run media (and vice versa) Who haven't the inteligence to look up the facts and find out that nearly All the Govt 'facts'are 99% lies. It's Nazi propoganda happening all over again to make us think those LEAST responsible caused the recession. I'm middle class by the way


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Subject: RE: Republican or Conservative folk singers
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 06:24 AM

Romney is trying to attract the Hispanic vote. In Miami, after Romney wrapped up and stepped off stage, a Cuban band called Havana Soul stepped in.

Their second song was Guantanamera. Perhaps they didn't know its origin.


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