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BS: 'Gay marriage' question

frogprince 14 Feb 13 - 09:10 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Feb 13 - 02:35 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 15 Feb 13 - 07:19 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 15 Feb 13 - 07:33 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Feb 13 - 11:31 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 15 Feb 13 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Musket sans cookie 15 Feb 13 - 11:46 AM
KB in Iowa 15 Feb 13 - 01:26 PM
KB in Iowa 15 Feb 13 - 01:27 PM
KB in Iowa 15 Feb 13 - 01:54 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Feb 13 - 03:23 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Feb 13 - 03:29 PM
frogprince 15 Feb 13 - 03:39 PM
Don Firth 15 Feb 13 - 04:49 PM
gnu 15 Feb 13 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 15 Feb 13 - 10:21 PM
frogprince 15 Feb 13 - 11:47 PM
Don Firth 16 Feb 13 - 12:21 AM
frogprince 16 Feb 13 - 12:47 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 16 Feb 13 - 07:15 AM
akenaton 16 Feb 13 - 10:11 AM
frogprince 16 Feb 13 - 11:47 AM
Bill D 16 Feb 13 - 02:31 PM
Don Firth 16 Feb 13 - 02:48 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Feb 13 - 09:55 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Feb 13 - 10:10 PM
Don Firth 16 Feb 13 - 10:30 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Feb 13 - 11:30 PM
Don Firth 16 Feb 13 - 11:55 PM
Don Firth 17 Feb 13 - 12:27 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Feb 13 - 01:04 AM
Don Firth 17 Feb 13 - 01:44 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 17 Feb 13 - 07:58 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Feb 13 - 08:47 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Feb 13 - 11:44 AM
frogprince 17 Feb 13 - 01:11 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 17 Feb 13 - 02:39 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Feb 13 - 02:54 PM
Don Firth 17 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM
saulgoldie 17 Feb 13 - 03:09 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Feb 13 - 03:25 PM
Don Firth 17 Feb 13 - 03:43 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Feb 13 - 04:14 PM
Don Firth 17 Feb 13 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Feb 13 - 04:37 PM
frogprince 17 Feb 13 - 04:44 PM
frogprince 17 Feb 13 - 05:15 PM
Don Firth 17 Feb 13 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Feb 13 - 07:12 PM
Bill D 17 Feb 13 - 07:13 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:10 PM

The article does allege that a substantial study found a "modest but significant" correlation between first trimester stress and orientation. Saying for consideration that it is a valid finding:

That finding would not even begin to support gfs. He discounts findings of a much higher correlation with identified genetic markers.
To take a theoretical stab in the dark, there could be those who would be at a balancing point because of genetic factors (or other biological factors not yet understood) who are tipped on over to homosexual orientation by the stress factor.

But gfs never backs away from "choice, choice, choice"; so all the stress factor, or any other biological factor, could do, would be to produce an individual who is prone to make the bad choice of a homosexual lifestyle . I won't hold my breath waiting for evidence for that to come together.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 02:35 AM

frogprince: "He discounts findings of a much higher correlation with identified genetic markers."

Not at all...genetic markers can be subject to alterations, caused by the aforementioned things in the article. A more apt study would be to somehow 'monitor' the stress levels,(or other influences to genes in general, such as drugs or alcohol, et al)...There Does seem to be a correlation as to stresses, anxieties, depression, resentments etc. etc, on the genes..or more accurately, the 'markers', and quite probably properties. Remember, the mother and child are processing the SAME fluctuations, of the SAME 'energy'(if you will), chemical balances or imbalances(if you will)...and the cells set up the receptors, to 'crave' whatever 'substance' or 'gratification' it has been 'accustomed' to.

The is a good segment on 'receptors' in the video "What the bleep Do We Know?" (I posted the link for TIA a while back..I could re-post it, if you may be interested). It's easy to understand, in the video.

Don, Once again, you're 'off the track'...and hopefully not trying to drag people with you....You are missing, ENTIRELY the bigger point....but more on that, later....so the more serious stuff related to the thread doesn't get high-jacked, AGAIN....OK?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 07:19 AM

""There Does seem to be a correlation as to stresses, anxieties, depression, resentments etc. etc, on the genes..or more accurately, the 'markers', and quite probably properties.""

And you base your argued certainly about Gays and consequently your attitude to allowing them to be what they are on that "probably"?

Do you sell snake oil as well, or turn lead into gold?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 07:33 AM

Your pseudo scientific analysis falls flat on its face if even one happy, placid woman goes through a non stressful pregnancy and birth, and her child is Gay.

Only the most arrogant, up-his-own-arse charlatan would have the Hutzpah to advance that as a fact.

And just to prove I tried, and for the third time.

Apart from your well known distaste for their existence, please explain what you see as the essential difference between an infertile heterosexual couple adopting a child and rearing it in a safe and caring environment, and a homosexual couple doing the exact same thing?

We know you object! So tell us why.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:31 AM

DonT: "Your pseudo scientific analysis falls flat on its face if even one happy, placid woman goes through a non stressful pregnancy and birth, and her child is Gay"

Well, of course you have monitored such a woman??..or are you speaking hypothetically?...or do you even know who or what you're talking about?

Firth is still doing 'research'...

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:42 AM

As it happens, I have a very good friend a lady in her late sixties, who popped out five little'uns in seven years with hardly a hiccup, and is so placid and calm that "Pot" takes her for relaxation.

She happens to have:-
One Gay daughter
Three straight sons
One gay son

And a nicer bunch you couldn't hope to meet.

D'ye hear that thump and a dull roar in the background?

It's the sound of a hypothesis, which was presented as fact, crashing and burning.

That's the way science works old chum, one exception and it's back to the old drawing board.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:46 AM

Woof! Woof!
Ok boy, I shall interpret for Goofus. Have a gravy bone and go and lick your balls.

Goofus.   How many women do you want to monitor till you prove your point? The good professor says there are a few billion to choose from so eventually you may find enough to confuse idiots with but you'll still be wrong.

Mainly, it appears, because your comments are subjective and pander to bigotry.   The other odious creatures have recognised they are on a hiding to nothing and have done the decent thing and stopped posting.

The good professor is fed up of reading your crap too. Which, being a greyhound with nothing better to do all day is saying something.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 01:26 PM

On April 3rd it will be three years since same-sex marriage was legalized in Iowa.

The world has yet to crumble around us. Except for the friends and families of those who have entered into a same-sex marriage, along with the couples themselves, I daresay things have not really changed at all.

One small exception perhaps. An Iowa City jewelry store has been running TV ads for some new software they have. Seems it allows you to customize your engaement ring on the spot. One of the two versions I have seen shows a woman purchasing the ring and then at the end has a picture of her and her partner. I like it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 01:27 PM

Oops, four years, not three. April 3, 2009 is when it was legalized.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 01:54 PM

I googled 'Gay Marraige Iowa' to get the correct date for when it became legal (then wiffed on it anyway) and it seems to have had a side effect.

The ad at the top of the main page here on Mudcat is 'Meet Singles in Iowa City'

Ads like that pop up from time to time but the fact that the photos today are guys is a bit different. None of them really look like my type.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:23 PM

Ah, don..I forgot to mention that your scientific monitoring of the mother's emotional impulses during pregnancy, was just brilliant and astute!
I come from a family of five boys one girl....nobody turned out homosexual....(guess Don's perpetuated myth and genetic theory didn't prove out here, either)...so back to your point...so, you are agreeing then, that it is a preferential behavioral choice?...it sounds like it to me. That's their choice..as I've mentioned before. Firth won't be happy. Boy, from the frantic size of his 'froth and font'..he got pretty excited there.

...because if it was their free choice to satisfy whatever impulse/inclinations/desire/fantasy they may have had.....it might just not be 'genetic'

Have a great day!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:29 PM

Typo..I forgot to paste:.....


DonT: "That's the way science works old chum, one exception and it's back to the old drawing board."

You can sure say that again!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:39 PM

Once again, gfs proves that, given the total absence of logic, absolutely any fact or anecdote can be interpreted as evidence of absolutely anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 04:49 PM

"…..guess Don's perpetuated myth and genetic theory didn't prove out here, either……"

Not myth. Theory, yes, but with substantial evidence. Enough to convince geneticists that they are looking in the right direction.

The fact that Goofball doesn't like it and won't even accept the possibility (probability) does not alter the fact the evidence has so far been highly persuasive.

And that attempts to treat same-sex orientation as if it were a psychological abnormality have proven to be psychologically harmful to the "patient" (ineffective, often leading to depression and suicide), despite quack headshrinkers to the contrary.

If this were the age of Galileo, who revealed that the sun is not the center of the universe, Goofball is the kind of person who would have demanded that he either recant or be burned at the stake as a heretic.

Stupidity and bigotry know no bounds.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 09:26 PM

"Stupidity and bigotry know no bounds."

We calls it "stunned as me arse" here aboutst. Imagine... a grown hairy arsed man what don't got two fuckin clues about yer sex, eh? Supporting laws that discriminate and not laws that educate and advocate tolerance and intelligence?

Stunned as me arse??? Yees b'y!


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 10:21 PM

Frothmeister: "The fact that Goofball doesn't like it and won't even accept the possibility (probability) does not alter the fact the evidence has so far been highly persuasive."

Persuasive??...hmmm..as is talking someone into something?...does it matter if what the person being 'persuaded into' is actually being enlightened by fact...or just persuaded into...umm..whatever?

As far as it being a 'civil right' issue...how many times are you going to ignore giving a premise??..So here's your chance, AGAIN...is it a race, color, or creed?

'Persuade' me.
(You don't have to worry about the puppet/parrots.)

Do civil rights cover elective behavior?

'Persuade' me.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:47 PM

"Do civil rights cover elective behavior?"

Of course not, gfs.; for instance, no one has a civil right to practice the religion of their choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:21 AM

"Persuasive" in the scientific sense. Which is to say "all indications are that it is the case, and it merits further study to confirm."

But then, Goofball, it is obvious that you that you are not familiar with the rigorousness with which scientists work. They can be sure, but they want to make certain that they've dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's before they issue an absolute statement.

And absolute statements in the world of science are actually rarer that many people think. For example, all indications are that the universe is at least 12.5 billion years old, and perhaps older, but whether it actually IS older than that is, as yet, not determined.

But—the evidence is very "persuasive."

Capiche?

No, Goofball, of course you don't.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:47 AM

So, gfs, is this a fair summary of some of your understanding?

There are genetic markers that correlate to same-sex orientation. Those markers are created by stress during pregnancy, especially during the first trimester. But sexual behaviour is strictly a choice, independent of orientation.

You explained that genetic markers are changeable. Do you believe that in successful re-orientation therapy the genetic pattern is changed back to "straight" ?

Going back to a video that you linked quite some time ago: do you believe that being hugged and pounding on upholstered furniture can correct flaws in a person's genetic makeup?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 07:15 AM

""Ah, don..I forgot to mention that your scientific monitoring of the mother's emotional impulses during pregnancy, was just brilliant and astute!""

You are a total dickhead. This lass was a school friend, with whome I have been in continuous friendly contact ever since, and it doesn't require scientific monitoring to know that she is one of the least stressed members of the whole human race.

As for choice, if you cannot tell us the exact point in your life when you made the conscious choice to prefer the opposite sex (whatever that is in your case), then your choice theory is also shot down in flames.

You can be amusing, much as a chimp can be amusing, without having the intelligence to make a career of it.

But your claims to be a counsellor are far from amusing, and your pretensions to any kind of scientific knowledge are simply absurd.

You really should concentrate on your music and leave the heavy stuff, like thinking, to the grown ups.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 10:11 AM

I think you are all mad.
Every post full of childish name calling with no attempt to answer Sanity's points
There is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic. If there was it would have been trumpeted from every media outlet.
They have nothing, not a sausage and given the capabilities of genetic reseach today, the evidence should be blindingly obvious. If it existed!!

However, it seems that this question is going to be left to nature to answer...male to male sex and the promiscuous lifestyle associated, will produce infection rates that even the blind fools on these pages will be unable to justify.

That is a pity...but is always the case when agenda overules sense and reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:47 AM

"
There is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic...
They have nothing, not a sausage "

From the scientific article, cited above, which gfs was actually the first to refer to specifically:

"Of the 40 sets of brothers, 33 shared a set of five markers in the q28 region of the long arm of the X chromosome. The linkage has a LOD score of 4.0, which translates into a 99.5% certainty that there is a gene or genes in this area that predispose males to homosexuality."

Can't be true, because I don't want to believe it.Can't be true, because I don't want to believe it.Can't be true, because I don't want to believe it.Can't be true, because I don't want to believe it...


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:31 PM

Thank you frogprince... saves me the trouble of posting similar quotes.

There are many studies linking genetics to sexual preference. What GfS and Ake seem to be demanding is something like "visible, direct causality", which is very seldom available in these issues.
Think about this: we KNOW that dogs can be bred for traits like aggressiveness and docility, without knowing the precise chromosomes where the relevant changes are located. We know that many, many traits in both humans and 'lower' animals are determined genetically... so why not sexuality? You don't accept this because it doesn't jibe with your pre-digested opinion(s).


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:48 PM

Ake, Guest from Sanity is the master of childish insults and the most prolific user thereof, or has you prejudice blinded you to what's actually there?

Also—there is PLENTY of evidence that homosexuality is either directly genetic or, at the very least, has a very strong genetic component, whether YOU and GfS like it or not. Again, your own prejudices are blinding you.

Calling us "mad," or things like "brainwashed liberals" in lieu of rational argument is no less childish than what you are accusing others of.

Open your eyes!

======

GfS and Ake can twist and writhe all they want, but that isn't going to alter the fact that the world is moving on without them. Once again, several states in the United States have legalized same-sex marriage, the Veteran's Administration has ruled that they will give full benefits to the same-sex partners (spouses) of military members, and both France and England are in the process of legalizing same-sex marriage.

Where all else in the world this sort of thing is happening, I don't know. But I do know that the Indonesian government attempted to encourage same-sex relationships in an attempt to stem Indonesia's burgeoning population. This attempt failed, because—much to the point—one simply does not decide arbitrarily to be "gay." One either IS or IS NOT.

These two homophobes and all those who share their delusion will eventually vanish in the mists of antiquity like other life forms who couldn't adapt to new circumstances or keep up as the world becomes more civilized.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 09:55 PM

THIS coming from YOU?????.."GfS and Ake can twist and writhe all they want.."

You have made yourself completely dizzy, along with some of your fellow ideologues.

Oh yeah...was that race, creed or color???..!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 10:10 PM

GfS: "Oh yeah...was that race, creed or color???..!!"

Well if it's none of those...then it really ISN'T a 'civil rights' issue...as any of the 90%+ blacks who oppose homosexual 'marriage..who might know 'something' about civil rights and the REAL issues regarding the same.

Maybe the homosexual crowd is just racial bigotry in disguise.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 10:30 PM

See? Just like I said.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:30 PM

....race creed or color???..!!"

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:55 PM

"...race creed or color???,,!!"

And what exactly does that question refer to in this context? Pure diversionary tactics, I suspect. It makes no sense.

How about YOU answering some of the questions that have been put to YOU all along and that you have been just ignoring?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 12:27 AM

Oh! Well, Goofball, I think I may have unscrambled your convoluted "thinking," if that's what it can be called.

Civil rights issues are not limited to "race, creed, and color." That's 1) a cliché, and 2) a misunderstanding of what constitutes matters of civil rights.

Civil rights is relevant to any matter in which ANY particular group of people is discriminated against. When they are denied the rights and privileges that others have. When they are treated unequally before the law.

You mean, Goofball, you didn't know that? You're twisting and writhing again!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 01:04 AM

ANY group discriminated against?????? Polygamists?? Pedophiles??
Bestiality?? Heroin users? Meth freaks?..ANY??????????????????


What questions??


Related...though you bitched about this as well! ........
and somehow, you think strss during pregnancy isn't related!

MORONS!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 01:44 AM

No, you idiot!!

Women, the aged, the disabled, and other disadvantaged people, with the possible exception of those who have been convicted of a crime. . . .

And fortunately for you, Goofball, the simple minded.

And that article is old stuff. Listening to music while pregnant does not ipso facto create stress.

You're getting right in there with L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics and his theory of prenatal "engrams." That soon morphed into the "Church of Scientology." Is THAT the kind of "counselor" you are?

That would explain a lot!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:58 AM

""GfS: "Oh yeah...was that race, creed or color???..!!"

Well if it's none of those...then it really ISN'T a 'civil rights' issue...as any of the 90%+ blacks who oppose homosexual 'marriage..who might know 'something' about civil rights and the REAL issues regarding the same.
""

Did you feel the pain when that bullet hit your foot Goofie? You should have done, especially as the foot was in your mouth at the time.

Discrimination of any kind whatever is a civil rights issue you fool.

Disabled
Mentally ill
Learning difficulties
Fat people
The aged
Women
Gays
Lesbians
Transexuals
Hippies
Punks
Goths
And many more

All of these have exactly the same civil rights to live their lives free from interference and discrimination from the likes of you and Ake, and all of them do in fact suffer discriminatory infringement of those civil rights at various times.

Such infringement is very much a civil rights issue, and if you don't see that you are not qualified to comment on the subject.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 08:47 AM

You forgot bodhran players, Don, only they deserve to be discriminated against, as we all know. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 11:44 AM

Good point, Steve!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 01:11 PM

gfs chose to ignore my previous reference to choice of religion. Tell me, gfs, is is ok to discriminate on the basis of religious creed, because that is an elective choice?

But of course gfs does have a valid point; if we say that we shouldn't discriminate against gay people, then we have no right to discriminate against mass murderers who cannibalize their victims.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 02:39 PM

""then we have no right to discriminate against mass murderers who cannibalize their victims.""

Or against bogus counsellors who profess to cure what does not require curing, using half baked eugenics theories.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 02:54 PM

frogprince: "..gfs, is is ok to discriminate on the basis of religious creed, because that is an elective choice?"

Well, if there is a 'religion' that does not believe that homosexuality is 'acceptable' or a sin or whatever, that is their prerogative. Whether or not they 'discriminate' might be a matter of perception, depending on what behavior they show toward homosexuals. Some 'religions' are more 'accepting' than others. This is a no-brainer. The very peculiar thing is some homosexuals rail against some of these 'religions'..but want them to accept their homosexual behavior. Seems to me, that if you don't like them, stay away from them....but instead, they wage a 'bickering war' with them....and try to pressure them to abandon their already established beliefs,...rather than abandoning theirs. You'd have to take that up with them..either side...but bottom lining it, if a religion thinks its 'forbidden'..let them think that...after all, it used to be a free country.

What really gets me, is that I posted a link, that pro-homosexual groups were putting pressure on corporations, in regards to supporting charitable organizations who don't adopt their philosophy...so now you may have corporate influence and pressure on the charities....and I rather hold suspect ANY political/corporate mergers...as in fascism, no matter what side is employing it. Look up ALEC...same thing, other side.
Oh, we love to rip them a new asshole..but only when THAT OTHER side is doing it...not 'our side'...then it's just OK..right?
Hypocrisy is just a lot of fun...depending on who's side its on!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM

When you consider that approximately one person in six is left-handed, isn't the fact that almost all manufactured products are made for right-handers a matter of rank discrimination? Most southpaws don't raise a howl about it because they've had to spend their lives adapting.

I don't seriously believe that "handedness" is a decision that a person makes when he or she is just a toddler.

But then, maybe GfS does.

Of course, it could be genetic. (Oh, horrors! Not THAT!!) No, it must be the result of pre-natal stress. You know, forcing the mother-to-be to listen to music. We must, at all cost, prevent pregnant women from ever listening to music of any kind.

(But Mr. Counselor, might that not cause stress?)

"Race, creed, and color." Where does handedness fit into that?

When Congressman Barney Frank of Massachusetts was told that favoring a particular piece of legislation might make some people angry with him, he responded, "Look, I'm left-handed, I'm Jewish, and I'm gay. How bad can it get!??"

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: saulgoldie
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 03:09 PM

Well, in the course of this thread I went from hetero to homo and back to hetero. And it seems there was nary a ruffle in the time space continuum, never mind any suffering among the contributors to this thread. So I guess homo-ism is not dangerous.

No, all of this nonsense is about the fear that someone, somewhere is having fun or experiencing joy, just like the dopey laws against marijuana.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 03:25 PM

I personally don't care about Barney Frank's religion or what hand he jerks off with..but this is for sure..he is a corrupt piece of shit!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 03:43 PM

And what in your alleged mind makes him "corrupt," Goofball? You make it plain that you don't care about his religious affiliation or his handedness (interesting to note that you immediately went to matters of "jerking off!"), so what, exactly, makes him "corrupt?" There's only one thing left.

A same-sex oriented person is ipso facto corrupt?

======

Where I live, there is a Lutheran church about ten blocks north. It is Missouri Synod, very conservative. They are opposed to homosexuality, considering it a sin.

Nine blocks south of where I live, there is another Lutheran church. Their synod is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. For the past thirty years they have been willing to perform marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples (whether state law recognizes it or not) AND welcome people with same-sex orientation into the church of they wish to join.

This is not a "gay church." It has a congregation of well over two hundred, only a small percentage of same-sex oriented members, but for obvious reasons, a larger percentage of openly gay or lesbian members than the conservative Lutheran church north of where I live.

By the way, there are some FIVE churches of various denominations within a radius of two miles of where I live who do not discriminate against those of same-sex orientation, welcome them into the church, and are willing to perform marriage ceremonies for them if they wish.

These churches have signed and adopted the "Statement of Welcome," which reads as follows:
We affirm with the apostle Paul that in Christ "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female" (Galatians 3:28). Christ has made us one.

As a community of God striving to be inclusive and open to diversity, we welcome all people to join us as we struggle to better understand the mysteries of God's teaching and purposes for us. Although our world can seem to be a place of alienation and brokenness, Christ calls us to reconciliation and wholeness. We are challenged by Christ to care for, to love, to understand and to listen to each other, regardless of our race, age, gender, gender identity, marital status, physical and mental abilities, sexual/affectional orientation, national origin, or economic status. We celebrate the special gifts that each has to bring!

All people are welcome within the membership upon making the same affirmation of faith, and, as members of this church, we are all expected and encouraged to share in the sacramental and general life of this congregation. We celebrate together our unity as God's people.
Simple enough. If a gay or lesbian person is discriminated against or condemned as a "sinner" in their own church (assuming they go to church), there are other churches out there who are signatories to the "Affirmation of Welcome" quoted above. Change churches. Everybody's happy.

And when and where are all these "pro-homosexual groups" who are "putting pressure on corporations?"

Oh! On Mars. Well, then I'd say let the Martians deal with it..

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 04:14 PM

I think I already said that...about 'religions'.
As so far as Frank is concerned, his real estate job with the government has been flooded with corruption charges..or didn't you read that?..Oh, never mind, you were an alleged 'news media' guy...the DO have a well known problem with discerning the truth and reporting it...as evident with your general spin on just about everything..except Beethoven!

Aslo: Don 'The reporter' Firth:
"Discrimination of any kind whatever is a civil rights issue you fool.

Disabled
Mentally ill
Learning difficulties
Fat people
The aged
Women
Gays
Lesbians
Transexuals
Hippies
Punks
Goths
And many more

All of these have exactly the same civil rights to live their lives free from interference and discrimination from the likes of you and Ake, and all of them do in fact suffer discriminatory infringement of those civil rights at various times."

You forgot these 'genetic based' categories:

18-19 yo (11712)
3D (1998)
69 (13026)
Abuse (2646)
African (1205)
Amateurs (269947)
Anal (332458)
Anime (6167)
Arab (6566)
Army (2367)
Asian (280890)
Asses (173953)
Babes (177276)
Babysitter (4739)
Bathing (29309)
BDSM (38557)
Beach (11689)
Bedroom (16420)
Big Ass (61796)
Bisexual (7277)
Bitch (28024)
Black and Ebony (91717)
Blondes (308480)
Blowjobs (531626)
Boots (15112)
Booty (26171)
Bottle (1863)
Bride (3330)
British (9504)
Brunettes (270577)
Brutal (2730)
Bukkake (9408)
Bus (2368)
Busty (259320)
Car (10502)
Cartoon (10659)
Casting (5055)
Celebrities (10001)
CFNM (5585)
Cheating (4983)
Chick (40161)
Chinese (6280)
Chubby (12457)
Classic (13117)
Clit (7058)
Close-ups (12792)
Clothed Sex (3256)
College (24401)
Compilation (18806)
Couple (140321)
Crazy (8434)
Creampie (62743)
Crossdressing (7560)
Cuckold (8128)
        Cum (199178)
Cumshot (379856)
Cunt (9985)
Dad and Girl (9123)
Deepthroat (79578)
Dildo (81970)
Dirty (13915)
Doctor (7980)
Doggy (90956)
Double (67680)
Drunk (5901)
Emo Girls (3754)
Euro (25616)
Extreme (16524)
Facesitting (5029)
Facial (153504)
Fantasy (5567)
Fat and BBW (47275)
Feet (21062)
Femdom (13055)
Fetish (62471)
Fingering (96086)
First Time (15418)
Fishnet (18988)
Flashing (22025)
French (17557)
Fucking (469227)
Funny (12097)
Gangbang (43273)
Gay (25977)
German (22248)
Girlfriends (25320)
Glasses (11207)
Granny (16849)
Greek (557)
Groupsex (110401)
Hairy (45193)
Handjob (59476)
Hardcore (367204)
Hentai (9835)
Hiddencams (15359)
Homemade (34467)
Hookers (3825)
Horny (54797)
Housewife (8857)
Huge Cock (84776)
Husband (10605)
Incest (simulated) (21177)
Indian (8366)
Insertion (7181)
Interracial (101834)
Italian (8663)
Japanese (44795)
Jerking (9061)
        Juicy (7017)
Kinky (7401)
Kissing (35778)
Kitchen (8550)
Korean (2914)
Lactating (7704)
Latex (13515)
Latina (81559)
Lesbians (142203)
Licking (182516)
Lingerie (58204)
Maid (9818)
Massage (17843)
Masturbation (196772)
Mature and Girl (19810)
Matures (124250)
Midget (1003)
MILF (127263)
Mistress (12886)
Mom and Boy (34411)
Monster (9080)
Natural (35946)
Naughty (13543)
Nextdoor (3481)
Nipples (15576)
Nudist (1429)
Nun (1030)
Nurse (15049)
Nylon (111784)
Office (23699)
Old and Young (38503)
Orgasm (23316)
Orgy (41595)
Outdoor (63900)
Pain (7875)
Panties (32850)
Pantyhose (8665)
Party (31635)
Petite (20207)
Pick Up (1572)
Pink (13036)
Pissing (8034)
Pleasure (6871)
Police (5406)
Polish (881)
Pool (20844)
Pornstars (176814)
Pounded (7723)
Pregnant (7686)
Pretty (12235)
Private (3511)
Public (48359)
Punish (3913)
Pussy (320978)
        Redhead (64168)
Retro (6317)
Riding (71245)
Russian (21553)
Schoolgirl (26544)
Secretary (24124)
Seducing (6372)
Sensual (2786)
Sextoys (79474)
Shaved (115253)
Shemale (44987)
Shower (35418)
Sisters (5422)
Skinny (19414)
Slave (14622)
Sleeping (4165)
Slut (73058)
Smoking (4171)
Solo (64487)
Spanish (2482)
Spanking (18392)
Sperm (169988)
Sport (11232)
Spy (18914)
Squirting (35684)
Stockings (105278)
Strapon (21899)
Stripping (40947)
Student (8954)
Sucking (105974)
Swallow (38348)
Swingers (7123)
Tattoo (68179)
Teacher (12547)
Teens (363230)
Thai (4777)
Threesome (112769)
Tiny Tits (47122)
Tits (341986)
Titsjob (31040)
Toilet (3341)
Tranny (47204)
Turkish (2390)
Twins (2807)
Upskirt (8550)
Vibrator (20248)
Vintage (31410)
Virgin (7638)
Voyeur (21420)
Webcams (29887)
Whore (26153)
Wife (38299)
Young (79250)

They just couldn't help themselves....it's genetic!

BTW...there is a 'Gay' category....but nothing on parenting! Is THAT discrimination or what!!???!!

'Your cup of tea' falls under the 'nothing on parenting' category...enjoy yourself...you always have!

GfS

P.S. When you're out for yourself, you end up with yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 04:21 PM

Simpleton!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 04:37 PM

That's what I get for telling it like it is!...and that's the best you got!..NOTHING!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 04:44 PM

gfs, I'll try asking my intended question more clearly. Actually I'll put it two ways:


Religious belief is an elective choice, not genetically determined; do you believe the individual has a civil right to practice the religion of his or her choice?

Do you believe that it is acceptable under civil law to discriminate against a person because of the religious beliefs he or she is known to hold?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 05:15 PM

I can handle most of the things on that list you pasted, gfs, but...

Young...
Pretty...
Petite...
Massage...
Glasses...

Man oh man, that's some sick stuff; no wonder society is going down the tubes!


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 05:18 PM

With a few exceptions, I seem to be the only one who is jousting with this writhing, twisting nitwit. It occurs to me that I am playing "Don Quixote" here, tilting, not against an intelligent adversary. but against a mere windmill which is creaking loudly, waving its arms, and showing no signs of intelligence whatsoever.

It's obvious that I'm wasting my time. This is not a sentient being. Therefore, I will henceforth leave him to writhe, twist, and wave his arms—and emit creaking noises. I have better things to do with my time. Talk to real people, exchange messages here with intelligent, well-meaning individuals on various subjects, spend some much-needed time practicing my music, and get back to a couple of writing projects.

Now, Goofball will undoubtedly cackle and squeal that he has won the day because I choose to vacate the field of battle, but I think any intelligent, thinking individual can easily see that I quit the lists out of sheer disgust with the pig-headedness, lack of intelligence, and rampant bigotry I am foolish enough to waste my time on.

Watch for him to crow like a rooster who thinks it's HIS CROWING that makes the sun come up.

The more fool me for even thinking I was talking to a sentient being, and for wasting my time trying to get it to see reason when it has proven incapable of rational thought.

Ta ta!

Don Firth

P. S. I may or may not be back, but for now I grow weary of dealing with sheer, voluntary stupidity. I have to practice a bit this afternoon. There is a ballad I want to learn.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:12 PM

(more elaborate, pedantic froo-froo...no substance of/or fact).

frogprince, I think I see what you are asking, so if it's not exactly 'on the head' let me know....The freedom of religion(creed) is a guarantee of our rights, under our Constitution..it doesn't have to be 'genetic'....the genetic thing is something that is in question, because as blacks are blacks(and so on) genetically, there is no reason to deny them the rights ENDOWED, at birth....(careful I don't say "Endowed by their Creator")....the bigger difference going on, is whether one is 'Endowed' from 'God' as opposed to 'granted those 'rights' by the 'state' and 'Corporation-State'.........I'm leery of that..because with it comes a LOT of other crap...the best crap money can buy! I think sticking to the simplest known 'facts of life' and two people loving each other, sharing genes and Love, and caring, and all that 'corny stuff'..even watching and caring for your offspring through the years, with all the struggles and victories, and sharing with those whole of the family, rejoicing as well as worrying....THAT experience is in itself a different mindset, than our two butt-buddies, whose main thing in common is each others...umm..ability to make the other one 'feel good'...because they both have something they both understand....that has NOTHING to do with the former example...TWO different mindsets...and you MIGHT think it 'not rude' to consider that the parenting mindset, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, may not 'appreciate' the homosexual agenda's and 'availability' being taught to their kids at an early age....and yet the homosexual ideologues pressure school boards to do just that.....AND the parents are in the majority!

Now, I know some of you THINK you know my views on all this...and the political stuff as well....we may not agree all the time...and of course I have my 'satirical fun' on here with you...(in attempted get get people to THINK beyond the facade)....but THIS THING I DO KNOW...and SO DOES EVERY person out there who have raised your own children to adulthood......THAT experience is in its own level of the human experience, unique to itself...(Way down deep in there)....So let's not shit each other...(..and Don, keep your blindly ignorant opinions to yourself on this one...do yourself a favor..trust me!)


Genetic disposition toward a belief....hmmm.....Good fucking question!!!.....I saw a video recently called 'Proving God'..and a similar question was posed..so they did brain scans on two groups of people....and found that certain people while meditating/praying etc etc...and on psychedelics, lit up the brain cells as opposed to the other group which was made up of sincere atheists, which lit up nothing in that area.....hold on.....
Here, I found the link....in the end it doesn't draw a conclusion...but questions and tests done are really great!

Don't let the beginning think it's going where you' thinks it woyld.

Enjoy!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay marriage' question
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:13 PM

GfS ..your stupid list is one gigantic category error. We are not talking about fetishes, but about basic DNA.

(Now, you wanta explain where you GOT the list?)


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