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Whitby 2012

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Raggytash 31 Aug 12 - 12:20 PM
Jack Campin 31 Aug 12 - 12:31 PM
Les from Hull 31 Aug 12 - 02:10 PM
Steve Gardham 31 Aug 12 - 03:21 PM
Steve Gardham 31 Aug 12 - 03:22 PM
selby 31 Aug 12 - 03:25 PM
Steve Gardham 31 Aug 12 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,GUEST, Ray Smith 01 Sep 12 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,The Station Inn, Whitby 01 Sep 12 - 01:29 PM
12barblues 01 Sep 12 - 05:10 PM
bfdk 01 Sep 12 - 05:20 PM
Steve Gardham 02 Sep 12 - 06:04 AM
GUEST,Ray Smith 02 Sep 12 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,raymond greenoaken 02 Sep 12 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler 02 Sep 12 - 05:19 PM
GUEST,THE DOYLE FAMILY 02 Sep 12 - 06:16 PM
Stilly River Sage 02 Sep 12 - 06:51 PM
selby 02 Sep 12 - 06:58 PM
GUEST,The Doyle Family 02 Sep 12 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,The Doyle Family 03 Sep 12 - 04:31 AM
BobKnight 03 Sep 12 - 06:09 AM
Northerner 03 Sep 12 - 06:20 AM
Betsy 03 Sep 12 - 06:46 AM
3sdancer 03 Sep 12 - 07:00 AM
Rozza 03 Sep 12 - 07:23 AM
r.padgett 03 Sep 12 - 08:25 AM
Betsy 03 Sep 12 - 08:35 AM
GUEST 03 Sep 12 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,R. Whittle 03 Sep 12 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,folkiedave 03 Sep 12 - 10:46 AM
Matthew Edwards 03 Sep 12 - 10:58 AM
GUEST 03 Sep 12 - 11:15 AM
John MacKenzie 03 Sep 12 - 11:20 AM
nutty 03 Sep 12 - 11:21 AM
Liberty Boy 03 Sep 12 - 11:24 AM
GUEST 03 Sep 12 - 11:29 AM
Stilly River Sage 03 Sep 12 - 12:19 PM
johncharles 03 Sep 12 - 12:42 PM
Steve Gardham 03 Sep 12 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,wyrdolafr 03 Sep 12 - 02:40 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Sep 12 - 03:42 PM
GUEST 03 Sep 12 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,the Doyle Family 03 Sep 12 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,Simon Doyle and Family 03 Sep 12 - 05:29 PM
GUEST 03 Sep 12 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,Simon Doyle and Family 03 Sep 12 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,Simon Doyle and family 03 Sep 12 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,Simon Doyle and family 03 Sep 12 - 06:26 PM
Banjo-Flower 03 Sep 12 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,Simon Doyle and family 03 Sep 12 - 06:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 12:20 PM

That would be the Reaper, a Fifie herring drifter build about 1900 owned by the Scottish Fisheries Museum (I think)


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 12:31 PM

It was the Reaper this year, last year was a great big sailing barge.

Maybe neither of them is quite the historically appropriate kind of boat to do hornpipes on, but either would do until the Cutty Sark or the Victory pays a visit.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Les from Hull
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 02:10 PM

You'ld be better off wishing for a ship that can float. Both the ones you mentioned will never leave drydock.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 03:21 PM

Wot you on about, Les?
The Reaper sailed back up to its own port on Friday night and Spider T (2011)Humber sloop, was in the Thames Pageant with us, though sometimes we wish Mal had left it in dry dock. Both were moored outside the Ship.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 03:22 PM

Ah, you means the latter 2!


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: selby
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 03:25 PM

Steve hope you are well missed you and Gilly at Whitby.
You just had to get in that you was in the Thames Pageant didn't you :-))))))
Keith


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Aug 12 - 03:56 PM

Keith I like this new style posting leave all the punctuation to the end of the message and then change it to some mysterious coding!"(*(()

We're both fine thanks and enjoyed the festival with the usual 20 family members including Rich and Oli. Rich married now. How're your tribe? Haven't seen Joe for a while. Are any of you coming to Folksail at the museum this weekend? That famous craft, Wheldale, that sailed in the Jubilee Pageant will be there!! He he!


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,GUEST, Ray Smith
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 08:03 AM

The Welsh dance team, Dawnswyr Aberesc, were an exciting delight, especially the eight-year-old girl clog dancer! Please come back again soon!

Also, it was so good to see one of Aberesc's musicians, Mick Tems, who had suffered a severe stroke, back at Whitby and drumming up his Welsh tabwrdd. He told that he's editing an internet magazine, Folkwales Online Magazine - good luck to him and the dancers!

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,The Station Inn, Whitby
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 01:29 PM

Thank you to all for a great week. It is always fun to serve on Folk Week as it is so different to the rest of the year, and always lively and buzzing. Looking forward to next year, thanks again.

Col x


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: 12barblues
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 05:10 PM

This was my first time at Whitby and I thought it was wonderful. The only problem was working out how to be in two or three places at the same time. Highlights from my perspective were two Alistair Anderson workshops that were masterclasses in the use of dynamics, Steve Turner's song accompaniment workshop and Windy Gyle's Northumbrian session at the Rowing Club. Concert highlights were too many to mention individually.

However, a special mention should go to Steve Gardham of this parish who hosted a very poorly attended squeezebox session. Those of us who turned up were, to say the very least, inexperienced at playing in public. Tunes that can be played perfectly well at home became a jumbled incompetent mess. Throughout it all, Steve was patient and endlessly encouraging, although it must have been a complete waste of time for him. Thank you, Steve.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: bfdk
Date: 01 Sep 12 - 05:20 PM

Some videos from this year's Whitby Folk Week have gone up here, mainly from the ceilidhs and morris, and including one of the Welsh dance team that Ray was praising. More will go up as I work my way through them.

Best wishes,

Bente


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:04 AM

12-bar, thank you for those kind words. But no, it is never a waste of time. You do your best and if only one other person benefits in any way then it is worthwhile.

In previous years these have been very well attended and I won't stop doing them. Publicity for such events was hampered this year for various reasons beyond my control. I put it down to 1) I haven't been able to run one for a few years so they've gone off the radar and 2) perhaps all the squeezebox players who would normally come were involved in their own events 3) It was over lunch-time. I had to get from one workshop at the Coliseum finishing at 12.50 and then after the Squeezaround had to dash off to a concert at the Rifle Club. Eating and travelling time are not allowed for when putting the programme together.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,Ray Smith
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 10:31 AM

That's it, Bente - thank you for filming all the teams, especially Aberesc. Mick can seen on the end, playing the tabwrdd and sitting astride his mobility scooter!


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 02:38 PM

Too late perhaps to contribute to the brief discussion about the Reaper, but for what it's worth my friends Richard, Kate and I had the pleasure of playing on deck on the Thursday afternoon of the Festival. It's the closest I've come to playing at sea, though it didn't drift any further than six feet from the quayside. And yes, we played a couple of hornpipes.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 05:19 PM

Re Thursday after noon in The Elsie Snores. Some of us from Melnet were having or Annual(well second)Northern gathering and this was where we'd agreed to meet as we have for all the previous (one) years. Hence the melodeon overload - we did end up with a large number of honorary melodeons however, including Nick Barber's French Horn.
Goathland Plough Stots were their own inimitable selves. Next year in Jerusalem?


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,THE DOYLE FAMILY
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:16 PM

Hello everyone who went to Whitby 2012 we were very happy and proud to be asked back for a second year and to meet old friends and also to make new ones. This is the first time since last year for me to visit this mudcat website and to be honest i am DISCUSTED in the comments from jack campin HOW DARE YOU SPEAK ABOUT ME AND MY FAMILY THE WAY YOU HAVE IN YOUR FIRST COMMENT SAYING ''you would go some way to avoid seeing THE DOYLE FAMILY again'' IF YOU DIDNT LIKE THE ACT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE COME TO SEE US OR IF YOU CAME TO SEE THE OTHER ACTS THAT WERE PERFORMING YOU COULD HAVE EASILY WENT OUTSIDE UNTILL WE WERE FINISHED?

BUT THEN TO COME OUT WITH YOUR NEXT COMMENT SAYING ''BUT THEY WERE THE ONLY REAL DUDS''

WHAT GIVES YOU!!!!!!!!!!!THE GALL TO SAY OR TO QUESTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE ROOTS OF WHICH ME AND MY FAMILY HAVE DECENDED FROM YOU IGNORANT FOOL? YOU HAVENT GOT A CLUE IGNORANT FOOL?

WHY DIDNT YOU COME AND SAY THAT TO MY FACE AFTER THE PERFORMANCE OR WERE YOU JUST WANTING TO SAVE IT ALL FOR MUDCAT ''THINKING TO YOURSELF O WELL THE TRAVELLERS WON'T SEE THEESE COMMENTS'' AND YES I AM A TRAVELLER FAMILY MAN THROUGH AND THROUGH AND VERY PROUD TO BE, AND CAN'T WAIT TO SHOW YOUR COMMENTS TO MY FAMILY IN IRELAND, ENGLAND,SCOTLAND,WALES, EUROPE AND U.S. YOU SMALL MINDED PERSON.

AND YOUR NEXT COMMENT ABOUT ME SUPPOSE TO BE ''POSING & PATRIARCHAL''

THATS JUST YOUR WAY OF COVERING YOUR TRUE HIDDEN AGENDER THAT YOU REALLEY ARE A ''RACIST AGAINST TRAVELLERS'' GET OVER IT TRAVELLERS WERE AROUND FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS & WILL BE AROUND FOR A LOT LONGER ASWELL.

OOPS THIS IS A TRAVERLLER THAT CAN READ AND WRIGHT WHICH ''JACK CAMPIN'' MIGHT NOT BELIEVE OR HE MIGHT SAY I'M A ''DUD'' AGAIN BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING FOR NOTHING THE VAST MAJORITY OF TRAVELLERS ARE SOME OF THE BEST SCHOLARS GOING

YOU SMALL MINDED LITTLE MIDLOTHIAN PERSON ( and before anyone texts me back about poor little jack campin having a right to his opinion NO HE DOESN'T NOT WHEN IT IS ABOUT MY HERITAGE & CULTURE. and quite frankly i don't give a dam as to how SMALL MINDED jack campin feels EXACTLY THE WAY HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT ME OR MY FAMILYS FEELINGS WHEN HE MADE THEM COMMENTS )

AND YES JACK BY ALL MEANS PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU DO INTRODUCE YOURSELF THE NEXT TIME YOU ENTER MY COMPANY!

P.S I would like to say thank you to the very nice people who stood up for me and my family tradition against those NASTY comments and also A BIG THANK YOU FROM THE DOYLE FAMILY TO EVERYONE WHO MADE WHITBY 2012 REALLEY SPECIAL FOR US AND GAVE US A VERY WARM WELCOME.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:51 PM

Mr. Doyle, a review and a criticism was posted in this thread at Mudcat.org, a group founded on the appreciation of folk and blues music. The remark was brief and negative, others disagreed with him, and it would have rested there. You came in as a guest and responded with a rant that is loud and ugly. Do you want to leave it here where anyone searching on your group's name will find it? It's a very unattractive response to one negative (but brief) review.

Just say so and it can be removed.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: selby
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 06:58 PM

Greetings to the Doyle family regular readers/contributors of mudcat will enjoy your honesty in your posting. As an artist/performer what you get here is peoples opinions hidden sometimes behind an alias. The main thing to remember it is a discussion forum and people do give their opinions. For what it is worth I never saw you but I did see two young lads who I commented on, on another post I will slightly add to thread I saw two young lads playing pipes who I believe in the future, when their hands grow will be awesome, they was also polite pleasant and knowledgable. That is my opinion the same as Jack has expressed his. I feel it is important to point out I saw 2 young lads playing pipesI did not see travellers just young competent musicians with a lot of potential.
Keith


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,The Doyle Family
Date: 02 Sep 12 - 07:39 PM

Hello Keith thank you for your comments i do totally understand what you are saying about people having ther opinions, but when it becomes personal there is a big diffrence as to start calling me and my family 'duds' its just not on and totally uncalled for. And i think if it was anyone else who had performed at whitby or anywhere else and had very personal comments posted about them i think they would be also fuming and they would also be posting a reply. critism is fine but very deep and hurtfull comments are not.
simon


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,The Doyle Family
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 04:31 AM

SRS

You say a criticism and review were made about me and my family. It wasn't it was a nasty and sadistic comment.

And yes i understand and appreciate mudcat is for the passing on of comments, opinions,plus views about folk and blues music and song.

Then you say the remark was brief and negative? it might be brief in the written word but will last in the thought of mind for a long time, this person knows exactly what they have done. So it was more than a negative responce it was a comment of hate and it wouldn't have rested there.

And then you say i came on with a rant that was loud and ugly? i will say briefly that i have a right to defend myself and my family against mallicious comments.

And on what you said about people inquiring for The Doyle Family, his comment is the first anyone can see when they search for ''The Doyle Family at Whitby folk week 2012'' ? so where is your reply to jack campin! if that is his real name.

My responce to jack campin is in no way unatractive i am only being truthfull and straight forward and if people like yourself can not understand this thats your porogative.

I don't understnd why you didnt ask campin if he would remove his comment?

Simon


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: BobKnight
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 06:09 AM

In defence of the Doyle family, I met Simon and his family for the first time at Whitby 2012. I was impressed, not only by the sheer talent of Simon and his girls who accompanied him on stage, but by the quiet and mannerly way they went about their business. Over the course of the week, I met them time and time again, not only those who performed, but the rest of the family too. They were unfailingly polite and friendly to myself and Elizabeth Stewart on every occasion. Lovely people, and I look forward to meeting Simon and family again one of these days.

As for being "duds" sorry Jack, but you must have got out of bed on the wrong side that day. The two boys playing the pipes, as already mentioned by "Selby" were great, and to my surpise Winnie-Marie, who plays banjo onstage, showed her versatility by taking a turn on the pipes too. As for your remark about "Posing and patriachal control-freakery," I saw neither posing nor control-freakery. Traveller families are naturally close, and if modest, well mannered, and slightly shy of strangers children, are seen as control-freakery, then there is something wrong with the way we see the world these days.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Northerner
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 06:20 AM

I was mentored by the late Stanley Robertson and do try to see performances at Whitby by other Travellers. I wasn't able to see Simon and his family this year but have seen them previously. I thoroughly enjoyed their performance.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Betsy
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 06:46 AM

I think we need to be all very careful about WRITTEN criticism. It's not the same as an off-the-cuff remark to a friend that you didn't think much of such and such. Not every performance appeals to everyone and we all know that e.g. I might have liked a performance which my friend didn't like at all.
WRITTEN criticism can be heart-breaking as I hope a song which was beatifully performed by Gary and Vera Aspey , Iain McGillivray and others illustrates below.
To the Doyle Family I'd say , try to find ways to absorb this "knock" by thinking about positive and humourous situations in order to laugh it off. I always remember my old man saying, on hearing "She loves you" ,that the Beatles were rubbish and wouldn't last 5 minutes !!!.
Laugh it off, brush it off, be bigger than it-or it will linger like a bad smell.
Apart from THAT I wish your Family all the very best , and pardon the pun, it's time to move on ....

             THE CRITIC

                1.
HE COULDN'T SING, HE COULDN'T CLOWN,
NO, - HIS ART IT WAS IN PUTTING PEOPLE DOWN,
HE COULDN'T PLAY, BUT HE COULD WRITE,
AND WITH HIS PEN HE WENT AND BROKE A HEART LAST NIGHT.

                2.
HE SITS ALONE, WITH BLINKERED VIEW,
DOESN'T KNOW THE HOURS OF PRACTISE PEOPLE DO,
TO PLAY THE SONGS, - TO GET 'EM RIGHT,
HE SIMPLY TOOK HIS PEN AND BROKE A HEART LAST NIGHT.

CHORUS / REFRAIN                                                                              
                                       
WELL IT'S A MYSTERY TO ME., - HOW THE CRITIC" FORMED" YOUR MEMORY,
NOW ARE YOU TELLING ME, YOUR EYES AND EARS DECIEVED YOU!!

                3.
HE NEVER HEARD THE CROWDS' APPLAUSE,
AND AS THEY MADE THEIR EXIT THROUGH THE THEATRE DOORS,
HE NEVER SHARED THEIR WILD DELIGHT,
INSTEAD, HE TOOK A PEN AND BROKE A HEART LAST NIGHT.

                4.
TO READ HIS WORDS - THEY MADE NO SENSE,
THEY NEVER MATCHED OUR RECOLLECTION OF EVENTS,
ONLY FOOLS BELIEVE, WHAT BIGGER FOOLS WRITE!         
TAKE CARE THE CRITIC'S BREAKING HEARTS AGAIN TONIGHT.,   

(Almost repeat of the previous 2 lines :-)
ONLY FOOLS BELIEVE, WHAT BIGGER FOOLS WRITE!


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: 3sdancer
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 07:00 AM

Well said, Betsy


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Rozza
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 07:23 AM

Thanks for the kind words about my song in the John Birmingham Cup. It was a pleasure and a privilege to take part with such a fine group of people.

On the Doyle family - they were certainly one of my highlights. Great playing at a proper pace- and the prospect of the family contributing for many years to come is very welcome indeed. I look forward to seeing the two young uillean pipers join the others on stage before too long.

Also really enjoyed Steve Gardham's talk on the Origin of Folk Songs at the Coliseum.

Ruairidh Greig


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: r.padgett
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 08:25 AM

I missed the Doyles and performance and and practice and the art from are vital components

Now were the two lads sitting and playing the by the swing bridge, of the Doyles ~ they were brilliant together and dedicated and carriers of traditional music

We must not forget that folk song and folk music are an Art form, combining songs conveying feelings and sentiments with the conveying music as accompanimment (some times itself a true work of art)

Critics can accentuate the poor to the total detriment of the "jewels", indeed one man's poor is another man's brilliant

NO one wishing to sing should necessarily be prevented from doing so (although I am sure there are exceptions to this rule!)

Hope to catch the Doyles some time and no doubt another year will continue song/music development ~ good luck and music making to you all
Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Betsy
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 08:35 AM

Just to clarify ,there is no relationship between the song Rozza sang in the John Birmingham Cup and the song posted in my preceeding post above.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 08:44 AM

Nasty, Sadistic, Racist ?? Not from what I read, uncalled for perhaps, thoughtless perchance however the response to the criticism was, to my mind, over the top. There was even a veiled threat of physical violence should the two parties ever meet, not the way to win friends and influence people in my experience.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,R. Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 10:36 AM

To say that the Doyle Family are not travellers is an insulting thing to say, and for the remark above of a threat of violence if they should ever meet?? Not from what I have read, and of course Thomas McCarthy and the Doyle Family are cousins from what i have read in the efdss magazine, a true and exciting performace from the two.
Ruby


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 10:46 AM

Sorry to see such a lovely family as the Doyles subject to such criticism. I count myself unfortunate to have missed them at Whitby this year.

And I rarely contribute to Mudcat these days. Takes a lot to get me to do so. Good luck to you Simon.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 10:58 AM

Hi Simon,

It was good to meet you and the family again at Whitby, and I know that you have many friends there who enjoyed your music. I know that you are a peaceful man, and I think you are fully justified in being angry at some of the hurtful criticism expressed here. It is also very unfair for others to complain at your reply and to lecture you on your manners or accuse you or threatening violence.

You and the family will, I hope, always be welcome at Whitby. I heard your boys playing by the bridge, and I think they have a great future as pipers, while Winnie-Marie, Bridget and Margaret have already shown on TV that they have got talent! If some people don't enjoy listening to you, then that is their loss and really that should be an end to it. I'm sorry that you should have had to endure those remarks, but it is only the opinion of one person. Many others of us deeply respect what you do and the traditions you carry with you.

I hope that one day you will meet your critics in musical friendship, and that they will understand better where you are coming from, but in the meantime keep on playing as you are. Good luck!

Matthew


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:15 AM

Seems to me the Doyle response is quite clearly aggressive and threatening, whether justifiably so or not.

Hence entirely reinforcing the stereotype that people have of the travelling community.

I think he does his family and his community a great disservice by responding like that.

Mind you, it also seems that Jack Campin is an insensitive and ill-mannered twat.

So there we have it.

g


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:20 AM

If you look through Jack Campin's previous posts, you will find that he has a tendency to acidic, and often unnecessary comments.
While this doesn't excuse his OTT comment re the Doyle family, it does help to put his comments in context.
He was wrong to post the remark, and unneccessarily rude in the way he expressed his viewpoint.
It is equally wrong to accuse him of racism, and in no way does his comments express a racist viewpoint.
I feel that apologies are due all round.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: nutty
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:21 AM

When critisizing a family like the Doyles it easy to forget the amount of time it takes to reach such a high standard.

I applaud those children for the hours of dedicated practice and further applaud their father for, what must have been, his constant encouragement.

I missed the Doyles in concert this year but I really enjoyed what I saw in 2011.
I did see the two lads out busking and was pleased by the improvement in their performance - much more polished.

I know its been said before, but this is the future and hopefully seeing such talented young people will interest others in the genre as. from what I see, there are nowhere near enough youngsters around in folk clubs and at festivals.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Liberty Boy
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:24 AM

I first met Simon and family in Sidmouth in 2011. I think their playing is excellent and can see them being engaged at festivals all over in the foreseeable future. As someone who has been listening to uilleann piping for over 50 years and who played the pipes for 11 years, I can say that Simon's playing is truly representative of the great traveller piping tradition of the Dorans, Cash's et al. As we say over here "To hell with the begrudgers". I wish Simon and family all the very best for the future.
Jerry


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:29 AM

To The Doyle's great music and great session at the ship where you were there all day thursday playing for the crowds of people on your day of, and nice to see Tommy the landlord join you with the bodhran brilliant.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 12:19 PM

Mr. Doyle, I'm not in the UK so I haven't had the pleasure of hearing your family perform, though I did find some YouTube clips. I responded after your post because the sledgehammer-killing-a-fly effect of the all-caps rant looked like it was going to work against you. If you want to let it stand, no problem. If it needs toning-down, a moderator can help with that.

I don't have a dog in this fight, though I have participated in the thoughtful discussions about the Traveller communities over the years. Bleeding heart liberal that I am, I dislike a lot of the public policy that allows discrimination. One of our members, InOBU, has written a great deal and I learned a lot from his posts in addition to other reading on my own. We have Traveller communities in the US, though they are much less conspicuous than in the UK.

You will find that at Mudcat remarks like those made by Mr. Campion don't go unchallenged. I'm not familiar with him personally, so I didn't read more into his dismissal of some performances, though you can see that other mudcat members confronted him about his posts. They just didn't do it in all-caps.

If you would like to join the Mudcat.org group (it's free) then you would be able to use our personal message system and talk with our members both in the forums and privately thorough PMs.

[snip]


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: johncharles
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 12:42 PM

jack campin may well have been less than tactful in his comments. However, I fail to see anything sadistic or racist in his comments unless there is a very different interpretation of the word "dud" to the one I am used to.
john


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 02:28 PM

Matthew quite rightly took Jack to task immediately. I think 'posing' and 'patriarchal control-freakery' are very personal and this forum is about music. I think Simon's response is very understandable. Shame on you, Jack!


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,wyrdolafr
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 02:40 PM

I don't understand the grief that Jack Campin has got in this thread at all. This is the sum of what he's posted:

"(I would go some way to avoid seeing the Doyle Family again, but they were the only real duds)."

and then

"It wasn't Simon Doyle's music I disliked so much as the posing and the patriarchal control-freakery."

It's a bit harsh, but it's subjective and he's allowed an opinion in the same way everyone is free to ignore that same opinion. A pre-emptive strike with "NO HE DOESN'T NOT WHEN IT IS ABOUT MY HERITAGE & CULTURE" doesn't cut it when he's not mentioned even 'heritage' or 'culture' in his posts.

He even goes to qualify (or maybe back pedal/'ease up' slightly) the first comment by saying that he doesn't have too much of a beef with the music per se (which renders later comments about any slight on talent of the kids a bit redundant) and it all seems to be down to some kind of 'personality' issue which Jack Campin doesn't elaborate on

Now whilst it may be a bit tight/mean of him to critique kids harshly (and, again, he later qualifies the comment and takes the kids out of the picture) but how does what he wrote get to be interpreted like this:

"THE GALL TO SAY OR TO QUESTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE ROOTS OF WHICH ME AND MY FAMILY HAVE DECENDED FROM YOU IGNORANT FOOL? YOU HAVENT GOT A CLUE IGNORANT FOOL?"

I'm failing to see where Jack Campin did this.

"OR WERE YOU JUST WANTING TO SAVE IT ALL FOR MUDCAT ''THINKING TO YOURSELF O WELL THE TRAVELLERS WON'T SEE THEESE COMMENTS''"

I'm no mind-reader and have no way of what Jack Campin was thinking when he wrote his comments but this is quite an assumption/stretch.

"AND YES I AM A TRAVELLER FAMILY MAN THROUGH AND THROUGH AND VERY PROUD TO BE, AND CAN'T WAIT TO SHOW YOUR COMMENTS TO MY FAMILY IN IRELAND, ENGLAND,SCOTLAND,WALES, EUROPE AND U.S. YOU SMALL MINDED PERSON."

I can understand the 'family man' aspect, in fact it's the only part of it I do understand. Most parents are protective and proud of their kids, whether it's a gig or a school project. How the 'Traveller' bit is relevant, I've no idea. Jack Campin doesn't refer to the word or even history/culture of "Traveller" at all.

"THATS JUST YOUR WAY OF COVERING YOUR TRUE HIDDEN AGENDER THAT YOU REALLEY ARE A ''RACIST AGAINST TRAVELLERS'' GET OVER IT TRAVELLERS WERE AROUND FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS & WILL BE AROUND FOR A LOT LONGER ASWELL.

OOPS THIS IS A TRAVERLLER THAT CAN READ AND WRIGHT WHICH ''JACK CAMPIN'' MIGHT NOT BELIEVE OR HE MIGHT SAY I'M A ''DUD'' AGAIN BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING FOR NOTHING THE VAST MAJORITY OF TRAVELLERS ARE SOME OF THE BEST SCHOLARS GOING"

What's this accusation of racism founded on? The word "Duds", "posing" or "patriarchal"? How do they get to be interpreted as 'racism'?

"THE WAY HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT ME OR MY FAMILYS FEELINGS WHEN HE MADE THEM COMMENTS"

I don't play folk music, (although I listen to a lot of it), but I've been in plenty of bands, playing different kinds of music over the years. One thing I realised early on is that you need fairly thick skin as a performer because not everyone will like what you do, no matter how hard you try or, indeed, how good you (and others) think you are. From the YouTube clips I've seen of the Doyle Family I thought they were OK, but I'd never think of reining in my criticism of a performer just because they're dad might not like what I had to say. If this is specific to kids, where would you draw the line? 16-years-old? 18? 21? When they've left home? Got a job? Is it an I.Q thing? An E.Q. thing? Or is this a 'never express a negative opinion, ever' thing?

"AND YES JACK BY ALL MEANS PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU DO INTRODUCE YOURSELF THE NEXT TIME YOU ENTER MY COMPANY!"

I'm sure I'm not the first in this thread to read this as a threat of physical violence.

Seriously, much of this thread has been genuinely baffling as to the responses to Jack Campin's posts.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 03:42 PM

Obviously there is baggage that goes with the topic and the individuals participating in it. Their history is part of the interpretation of the words entered here.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 04:56 PM

To Wyrdolafr

we appreciate your time in copying my answers to campin and trying to point out everything i have typed down, but as you said yourself that you dont understand why campin has got the grief he has on this thread?
please just go over them last 12 to 14 words in that sentance.

And if you dont understand the grief campin has gone through! but there is no mention of what we have gone through over his comments, i could not care if campin likes me my family or the music we play that is his opinion,

but why go so far and say what he has said, i cant keep on explaing this over and over because there is a lot of inteligent people on this thread that does understand it,

and before you txt me back saying you are inteligent I am NOT the one who said you didnt understand? it was yourself who SAID THIS
Simon


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,the Doyle Family
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 05:04 PM

hi wyrdolafr

i forgot to put my name at the top

and one last thing the comment i made as a couple of you has pointed out as a threat of violence NO IT WAS NOT this is a comment meaning i would have rather him to say it to my face and if he has anything further to say for to say it to my face instead of behind my back the next time he sees me.

so please stop trying to twist what was said into something you would like me to say so you could say o yes thats the travellers for you typical sterio type.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,Simon Doyle and Family
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 05:29 PM

Hello Jerry

Thank you for the comment about me and my family we realley apprieciate it you are a true friend.

p.s we enjoyed both whitby two years on the trot and also sidmouth last year it was great working with you.

all the best Simon and family


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 05:32 PM

For goodness sake both of you. Get over it and get back on topic. Normal people are here for a different reason and just are not interested in your bickering.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,Simon Doyle and Family
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 05:57 PM

Hello Matthew

it is very nice two here from you again but i just wish it was under different circumstances.

I would like to say thank you for your kind words about me and my family on this thread especially when certain individuals where very derrogative in there comments about us.

I have enjoyed our meetings at the festivals and at informal sessions and look forward to meeting you soon again, me and the family have certainly enjoyed whitby especially when people who have been in the audience or at the sessions that have seen me and the family perform have come up to me afterwards to say how much they have enjoyed it, and also on the streets where people would stop me or the girls and boys or even my wife to say how much they enjoyed the music.

And it was also very kind of you to appalogise for someone elses comments but you have no need to do this as it wasn't you who said it.

Kind regards

Simon and family


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,Simon Doyle and family
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 06:04 PM

Hello Steve Gardham

thank you steve for your kind words

best wishes

Simon Doyle and family


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,Simon Doyle and family
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 06:26 PM

Hello nutty

A special thanks from the Doyle Family for the very kind words

all the best

Simon and family


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 06:29 PM

Unfortunately due to to circumstances beyond my control I had to miss Whitby this year and really missed the Elsinore sessions and The Rowing Club Sessions but with a bit of luck next year


             "I,LL BE BACK"

Look for the Flowery Banjo

Gerry


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,Simon Doyle and family
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 06:53 PM

Hi Bob Knight

Great to here from youself, me and the family enjoyed yourself and Elizabeth Stewarts singing it was a real treat to listen to and i hope we can meet up together again we would love to do some work together with yourselves as i think theres a lot that we can do together.

Also thanks very much for the kind words

keep in touch

all the best

Simon and family


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