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Whitby 2012

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Joe Offer 09 Sep 12 - 03:17 AM
The Sandman 09 Sep 12 - 06:46 AM
Jack's Rake 09 Sep 12 - 07:57 AM
The Sandman 09 Sep 12 - 09:42 AM
Dennis the Elder 09 Sep 12 - 10:17 AM
Jeri 09 Sep 12 - 10:25 AM
Mick Tems 09 Sep 12 - 10:34 AM
Jack's Rake 09 Sep 12 - 12:05 PM
selby 09 Sep 12 - 12:25 PM
The Sandman 09 Sep 12 - 01:06 PM
Spectacled Warbler 09 Sep 12 - 03:46 PM
dick greenhaus 09 Sep 12 - 04:13 PM
The Sandman 09 Sep 12 - 04:31 PM
The Sandman 09 Sep 12 - 04:41 PM
The Sandman 09 Sep 12 - 04:44 PM
Acorn4 09 Sep 12 - 05:10 PM
Surreysinger 09 Sep 12 - 07:41 PM
Betsy 09 Sep 12 - 08:23 PM
GUEST,old git 10 Sep 12 - 06:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 03:17 AM

Hi, Pete -

My position at Mudcat has changed, and I don't handle the "negative stuff" anymore. I pass complaints on to the Moderation Team, which has had this thread under observation and discussion for quite some time. Of course, there's no reason why somebody can't start a new thread, and leave the combatants to duke it out here. Call the new one "Whitby 2012 - your experiences," or something similar that differentiates it from the problem thread. It's hard for the Moderation Team to shut down a thread like the current one, because it is a legitimate discussion, albeit at times an unpleasant one.

-Joe Offer, Mudcat Archivist-


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 06:46 AM

why are some people intent on closing discussion? What harm does this discussion do to Whitby festival?
one person made a comment about a performer not based on their music,   the majority of people clearly had a good time at Whitby, The Doyles were out and about in the town giving the town extra atmosphere.
if the only criticism of a festival is one set of performers which was not based on their music,that sounds like it was a good festival.
why are people trying to suppress discussion? if you are worried about Whitbys reputation come on this thread and say all the good things about the festival.
I have always enjoyed the festival and have been many times when efddss ran it, and even when Malcolm ran it, its always been good, partly down to organisation and partly because it is an ideal venue for a festival.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Jack's Rake
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 07:57 AM

From: GUEST,sturgeon - PM
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 12:49 PM

I see from Jack Campin's home page that he plays those highly traditional instruments the recorder, washboard and clarinet, and has a subsidiary page devoted to his cats. I certainly wouldn't want to spend more than a micro-second in his company.

Oh come on now - what has any of that to do with the discussion?

I met some of the Doyles at Whitby and they seemed perfectly friendly. I also heard (I think) Simon issuing, from the back of the Met theatre, a very quiet heckle at a song introduction by Gavin Davenport which made me smile but could have caused a similar argument.

I've met Jack on a number of occasions and always found his company very pleasing. I've also been on the wrong side of his e-tongue many years ago on Usenet and, whilst at the time I was youthfully livid, I know see that that is his communication style - no more, no less.

The whole disagreement is, in my view, caused by imperfect communication and, perhaps, a little insensitivity on both sides.

None of it, however, justifies an attempted character assasination on the basis of a musician playing, amongst many other instruments, a recorder and liking cats.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 09:42 AM

jacks rake, please i must make it clear I did not say this:
I see from Jack Campin's home page that he plays those highly traditional instruments the recorder, washboard and clarinet, and has a subsidiary page devoted to his cats. I certainly wouldn't want to spend more than a micro-second in his company. YOUR STATEMENT COULD BE INTERPRETED THAT IDID.
neither did i call him a racist,I criticised his criticism which was nothing to do with the music, and which was completely out of order


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:17 AM

I stayed away from this thread for a while as I could see where it was Going. I was correct in my assumption, so I will stay a way a little longer and try again later, bye bye.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:25 AM

It's not Jack's statement that caused this, it was the inability of some fuckwits to get past it and discuss the music or even Whitby. It could have sparked a discussion of Irish Traveler music. Instead, the festival and music were not so important to those people as trying to get a fight going by attacking Jack, who, despite his directness, was DISCUSSING MUSIC.

I closed this once. Someone else re-opened it. I never intended it stay closed but temporary closure might give some folks a chance to cool off and evaluate whether what they had to say was worth changing the thread into yet another flame war. But I forgot how desperately tight a grasp some people here can have on perceived wrongs.

This is how this thread started:
"Subject: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,old git - PM
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 09:03 AM

Back from a great week at Whitby...songs,beer and friends old and new...priceless! Thanks to everybody who gave "Icebound" such a great reception and sorry to all those who couldn't get in!
I also enjoyed the rest of the week ,whether performing, MCing , running singarounds or just joining in impromptu sessions. Where did the week go? Here's to next year!
Oh..and congrats to Jim and Graeme's maritime sessions for raising such a large amount for the Whitby Lifeboat. £3113!!!
geoff t
I think it's a shame that some people should think their own offendedness is more important that talking about this festival. If you want to start a fight, at least have the decency to take it out of a perfectly good discussion and start your OWN thread.

This is my first and last comment in this thread.
You have a choice: whether to continue barking and growling about side issues or let the world know how great this festival was/is and how much fun you had/have there.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Mick Tems
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:34 AM

Folkwales Online Magazine has just been published, with Mike Greenwood's column, Dancewales, carrying pictures of Whitby Festival and Welsh team Dawnswyr Aberesc - thanks, Bill Rich!


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Jack's Rake
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 12:05 PM

From: Good Soldier Schweik - PM
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 09:42 AM

"jacks rake, please i must make it clear I did not say this:
I see from Jack Campin's home page that he plays those highly traditional instruments the recorder, washboard and clarinet, and has a subsidiary page devoted to his cats. I certainly wouldn't want to spend more than a micro-second in his company. YOUR STATEMENT COULD BE INTERPRETED THAT IDID."

Only by a dimwit. I preceded it with Sturgeon's username and time stamp, though I forgot to put some quotes around it ... This site is quite primitive, isn't it?

I don't see any reason that the fact my post was after one of yours would lead any non-thicko to assume you'd said that when you clearly didn't.

Sorry, anyhow.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: selby
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 12:25 PM

Once again we have a situation where a little spat his kicked off that has nothing to do with the festival.
GSS if I was new to folk music and interested in going to a festival what opinion do I get of Whitby, no mention of the brilliant artists, Ceilidh's, sessions workshops dance displays etc.
I may think twice about going and then that would be a loss to all thats why in my opinion that this thread should be allowed to die.
Keith


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 01:06 PM

if there is no mention of the good music at the festival that is the fault of the posters.
Jeri,
I am discussing an attack on a performer, and that attack was nothing to do with their music but some perceived idea which was quite insulting that the performer was a patriarchal control freak, if posters   thought a little more carefully before they slagged off performers this thread would not have developed how it has,   
The only thing I have attacked about Jack was his post, plus a previous post about RoyHarris.
It is not a side issue, BUT SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT. that performers are judged on their music, not whether some person who does not know them perceives them to be a control freak, or whether some person decides not to book someone at their club because they are a trans sexual or gay or is a traveller, or black, or brown, or because they are a muslim or something not related to their music, are you receiving me, Jeri?


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Spectacled Warbler
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 03:46 PM

I had an absolutely fantastic time at Whitby. 'Icebound' was superb, hours and hours of excellent English music sessions, old time American, melodeon net session, everybody friendly and lots of laughs. Roll on 2013!   And THANKS to everybody who helped to organise it.   My life would be sadder without you.

Joy


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 04:13 PM

GSS-
"It is not a side issue, BUT SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT. that performers are judged on their music, not whether some person who does not know them perceives them "
Not so. A performer is judged by the total performance. What you said may be true of recordings, but not of live performances.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 04:31 PM

a performer should not judged by some persons misconceived and uniformed perception that he is a control freak, yes uniformed, you cannot make a decision about someone or their family if you do not know them.
a performer is judged by their total performance of their music, if you went to a classical concert you judge the evening on the performance of the music,if you got a watersons concert in an arts centre, or a ralph mctell concert in an arts centre you listen to the songs and make your judgement on the music, why should the Doyle family be treated any difFerntly to any other performer putting on a show, the reality is that in any concert involving more than one person, someone has to be the leader and make the decisions about the set list the introductions etc, lets look at The Chieftains does anyone call Paddy Moloney a control freak, but he is the organiser[as I understand it].
as a professional performer[ on a much smaller scale than the Chieftains], I understand this, I do not think Jack does, he generally plays his music [ as I understand it] in a more informal setting. in any group there has to be a leader, that does not make them a control freak or an exploiter of children.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 04:41 PM

everyone who organises a festival should be thanked it involves a hell of a lot of work, as does organising a club.
my experiences of the whitby week have always been good the local people seem to make the festival goers welcome, ther have been sessions in different pubs , in fact myself and the Wilsons and others started the original session in the pub that was then called the cutty sark, not far from the station.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 04:44 PM

that should read the original sing around session in the cutty sark, there were music sessions in the elsinore and spontaneous music sessions in the plough and out the back of the plough , that was before sam smiths changed their music policy


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 05:10 PM

Just out of interest, what is actually the policy of the local authorities on busking at Whitby.

We only saw about 3 or 4 buskers in the three days we were there. This compares to Sidmouth where all the streets are full of buskers most of the time, and we'd always thought that perhaps it wasn't really allowed at Whitby - this is just for info.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 07:41 PM

The Festival programme always makes it clear what the policy regarding busking is in the following terms:

"Indiscriminate busking is frowned upon (not just by us). So, if you want to perform in the streets - and help the Festival- PLEASE call at the Festival office to get clearance and advice on appropriate spots">

So it's clearly not something to do on the spur of the moment or without official clearance, unlike Sidmouth.


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: Betsy
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 08:23 PM

Thanks Joe , that was as fair and reasonble a response that I could wish.
It has only entered into my head the concern that how many people who were NOT ACTUALLY at this " particular performance " - are prolonging this particular "debate".


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Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 06:40 AM

I started this thread to share my great experiences at Whitby this year with others and for them to do likewise with me. I've just returned from a week's holiday to find it completely hi-jacked . Surely one comment and response would have been adequate...or if more was required someone should have started a new thread.   Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion.....but thread creep/drift on this scale is not pleasant or desirable
geoff t


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