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BS: Butterflies and Fukushima

Ebbie 13 Aug 12 - 02:32 PM
gnu 13 Aug 12 - 02:46 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Aug 12 - 02:59 PM
Ebbie 13 Aug 12 - 03:13 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Aug 12 - 04:47 PM
Penny S. 14 Aug 12 - 03:32 PM
Charley Noble 14 Aug 12 - 05:37 PM
Bill D 14 Aug 12 - 06:21 PM
Nigel Parsons 15 Aug 12 - 06:04 AM
Ebbie 15 Aug 12 - 11:22 AM
Charley Noble 15 Aug 12 - 01:09 PM
Ebbie 15 Aug 12 - 05:06 PM
GUEST,Dazbo at work 16 Aug 12 - 08:15 AM
Bill D 16 Aug 12 - 11:58 AM
Charley Noble 16 Aug 12 - 10:11 PM
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Subject: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 02:32 PM

To my mind nuclear plants in the world are the equivalent of assault weapons on the individual level: They are harmless in themselves when properly used but the long-term effects of misuse are a major factor in disaster.

"They (Scientists) collected 121 insects, and found 12 percent of them had unusually small wings. That number jumped more than 5 percent when butterflies collected from the plant site had offspring of their own.
"In another group of butterflies collected six months after the disaster, scientists found 28 percent had "abnormal" traits. That number nearly doubled among the second generation born."

http://news.yahoo.com/japan-nuclear-accident-abnormalities-butterflies-traced-fukushima-plant-153553981--abc-news-topstories.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: gnu
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 02:46 PM

Frightening as it is sickening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 02:59 PM

Story here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19245818

(Yahoo changes frequently, Ebbie; your link is dead)


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 03:13 PM

Thanks, Q.


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 04:47 PM

Easier until they change it again?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19245818

Some caution must be observed for reports of this kind, since previous extensive tests have found similar results (from other incidents) but also that genetic defects are much more common than expected in "normal" populations of many species.

The deviations reported in this study certainly do suggest aubstantial radiation induced genetic damage, but quantifying how much of it is due to the radiation and what is normal for the species studied will not be simple.

Most studies selectively choose "normal" test subjects, and eliminate the "deviant specimens" without accounting for how many deviants there were, so past results seldom give an accurate indication of how many deviations occur normally. This makes it difficult to account for the causes of deviations, caused by a particular change, since there's seldom a reliable baseline for what deviations happen without the influence in question.

The levels of mutations found in this study certainly suggest very substantial effects from the Fukushima radiation releases, but it will be a long time - and many studies - before mutations from other causes can be reliably sorted out from the radiation effects.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Penny S.
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 03:32 PM

I once had a clutch of flies hatched from a dead starling in the chimney crawl out from under the skirting board and make for the window. The last ones out were deformed with illformed wings and other problems. Just south of Thames in Kent, and I haven't been aware of any radiation effects on anything else. I suspect the comment above about mutations in normal populations to be reasonable.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 05:37 PM

It is reasonable to expect radiation-induced mutations in all life in the plumes from the damaged nuclear plant complex. And, yes, it will take years to assess the impact as it did in and around Chernobyl. There is little reason to expect minimal impact.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 06:21 PM

The reason radioactive materials take so much care IS that they can be quite dangerous. Too simplistic an answer? Sure, and I know that many other things we deal with can be dangerous when not controlled and regulated- cars, electric power lines, dogs, stepladders...etc.

The difference is in scale. One car or unleashed dog or carelessly used stepladder can hurt a few people, and perhaps damage some property. One nuclear power plant can destroy the lives of tens of thousands and affect millions of others.
We KNOW that some dogs will bite, and sometimes cars will go astray, and sometimes a stepladder will break or be used carelessly...but we know that the benefits far out rank the risks, and tolerate them.

It is not reasonable to assume that nuclear power can be made 100% safe, and we have 3-4 serious examples of why...and several near misses.

The cost-benefit analysis is getting fuzzy, and there's no reason to assume there won't be MORE events like Fukushima and Chernobyl.

Those butterflies? They should be viewed like canaries in the coal mine and be a warning to shift our priorities soon!


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 06:04 AM

Maybe it's Divine retribution.
Butterflies harmed by fall-out
from
Nuclear plant damaged by tsunami
Caused by
earthquake/natural processes
caused by
Butterfly flapping its wings in the rainforest.


What goes around comes around.

Nigel
(tongue firmly in cheek!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 11:22 AM

"Butterfly flapping its wings in the rainforest." NIgel

Nice image. I also like: rain drop disappearing into the sea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 01:09 PM

The chilling thing is that I was attending a national conference of legislators in Chicago last week and the Nuclear Energy lobbyists had a booth there. Not surprising in itself but they had no flyer even acknowledging the Fukushima nuclear disaster. Nor was there any informational indicating the the Yucca Mountain high-level nuclear waste repository was placed on hold by the Obama Administration.

There were "lessons learned" fromThree Mile Island and Chernobyl but nothing newer than 2010 and the people staffing the booth had nothing to say about Fukushima; maybe it didn't happen after all...

So I got a couple of sample nuclear fuel pellets to carry away for show and tell. Anyone want some?

Charley Noble, back in Maine


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 05:06 PM

We are all aware of how swiftly time passes- and how quickly we forget. Agencies and other bodies who profit from forgotten events take advantage of that fact.

We need to keep their feet to the fire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: GUEST,Dazbo at work
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 08:15 AM

I have heard that there hasn't been any statiscally significant change in the rates of abnormal births over the last 25 years in the human populations affected by chernobyl. This info was not from a nuclear energy promoter but independently verified. I can't remember if they mentioned butterflies etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 11:58 AM

But there HAS been a significant rise in deaths from cancer from Chernobyl... with more expected


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Subject: RE: BS: Butterflies and Fukushima
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 10:11 PM

There was also a spike in spontaneous abortions following the Chernobyl disaster. Some attribute this spike to stress but I suspect that radiation exposure is far more likely.

Charley Noble


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