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Man in the Moon - old song?

Phil Edwards 01 Feb 12 - 07:13 PM
RobbieWilson 01 Feb 12 - 07:32 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 01 Feb 12 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 02 Feb 12 - 04:18 AM
GeoffLawes 02 Feb 12 - 07:36 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 02 Feb 12 - 09:06 AM
Vic Smith 02 Feb 12 - 09:57 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 02 Feb 12 - 10:18 AM
Phil Edwards 02 Feb 12 - 12:45 PM
Phil Edwards 10 Feb 12 - 08:53 AM
Stringsinger 10 Feb 12 - 05:25 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 10 Feb 12 - 06:30 PM
Phil Edwards 10 Feb 12 - 06:37 PM
GUEST,Lance the Librarian 17 Oct 13 - 04:26 PM
Phil Edwards 17 Oct 13 - 06:49 PM
Les in Chorlton 18 Oct 13 - 05:51 AM
Joe Offer 29 Dec 18 - 05:00 PM
Long Firm Freddie 30 Dec 18 - 08:15 PM
Reinhard 31 Dec 18 - 12:45 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 31 Dec 18 - 07:49 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 31 Dec 18 - 08:47 AM
Reinhard 31 Dec 18 - 09:21 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 31 Dec 18 - 10:45 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 31 Dec 18 - 11:44 AM
Joe Offer 02 Jan 19 - 05:51 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 02 Jan 19 - 06:08 PM
RTim 02 Jan 19 - 07:28 PM
topical tom 03 Jan 19 - 01:37 PM
topical tom 03 Jan 19 - 01:41 PM
topical tom 03 Jan 19 - 01:45 PM
Steve Gardham 03 Jan 19 - 04:51 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 03 Jan 19 - 05:55 PM
Richard Mellish 03 Jan 19 - 06:05 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 03 Jan 19 - 07:10 PM
Steve Gardham 04 Jan 19 - 01:26 PM
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Subject: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 07:13 PM

What's the song that these guys are singing here?

Has it got any connection with the waltz tune "Man in the Moon", composed by Scan Tester?

Anyone got any info?

PS To be honest I could have done some more research before posting; I just wanted to post something with a Subject line not including the number 5!


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 07:32 PM

@displaysong.cfm?SongID=5047


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 07:41 PM

Dick Frost's liner notes describe it as a late version of Hares on the Mountain with some verses added by Phil Tanner and some by American servicemen 1944-46.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 04:18 AM

Can't help with the history, but, Chris Wood did a version (with the same sentiments) called "Hares on the Mountain" (with his own twist on the story) My old band PJD did our version of it a few years ago.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 07:36 AM

In case it sheds any light, in his chapter about Scan Tester's songs in his book I never Played to Many Posh Dances Reg Hall does not mention Man in the Moon .


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 09:06 AM

Scan's tune can be heard here: The Man In The Moon and an abc transcript in an earlier thread here: Lyr Req: The Man in the Moon. The tune doesn't seem to be any close relation of Dick Frost's song tune.


Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 09:57 AM

Pip Radish -
"What's the song that these guys are singing here?

Has it got any connection with the waltz tune "Man in the Moon", composed by Scan Tester?"


* The Man In The Moon was played by Scan Tester but was not composed by him.

* The Man In The Moon that Pip links to is - as has been pointed out - a version of Hares On The Mountain.

* The tune that Pip links to is an entirely different one to the waltz that Scan used to play.

* I have an early (195?) poor recording of Scan made by Ken Stubbs at (I think) The Stone Quarry at Chelwood Gate where Scan played for most Saturdays over 40 years when he didn't have a better paid gig playing for a dance or a wedding etc. Scan starts with his way with The Man In The Moon and all the regulars start to sing a different song to the one that Pip links to. The words sound as though they may be Music Hall in origin.

* The entire book, I Never Played To Many Posh Dances, is now available on the "Musical Traditions" Website at http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/r_hall.htm

* There is a complete transcription of two long radio interviews that I did with Reg Hall, again this is on the "Musical Traditions" website, just after the I Never Played To Many Posh Dances double album and book were released in 1990 . All the tracks that were played to illustrate points in the interview are included as Real Audio links in the article and they include The Man In The Moon. This is at http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/tester2.htm

* A lot of the information that Reg Hall used in his book on Scan came from a long interview that I did with Scan that appeared in one of the early editions of the magazine Traditional Music when Keith Summers were the editor.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 10:18 AM

Thanks for those links Vic. I didn't know the book was online - that's a treat to come. I only saw Scan play one time I think (whereas I've seen Dick Frost on countless occasions!).

Here's a direct link to Scan playing The Man In The Moon in that article The Man In The Moon (it's an mp3 file, despite the icon saying real audio!).

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 12:45 PM

What a rich seam I've hit on! I'm particularly intrigued by the thought that there is a song to go with TMITM - it's one of my favourite waltzes, and pairing it with a song would be ideal. Don't suppose you could dig that tape out, Vic...?

I confess, I didn't really think the waltz tune and the smutty song were the same tune; I thought they might have had a vague family resemblance, but it was late and I was tired. My main reason for posting was just to give Joe (and anyone else) something to look at apart from the endless "top 5"s. I never imagined the responses would be as interesting and informative as this. Goes to show - on Mudcat you can ask a silly question and get a sensible answer.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 08:53 AM

Still intrigued about this...

Scan starts with his way with The Man In The Moon and all the regulars start to sing a different song to the one that Pip links to. The words sound as though they may be Music Hall in origin.

Any thoughts (Vic or anyone else) on what the song might be?


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 05:25 PM

"My sweetheart's a man in the moon. I'm going to marry him soon.
Would fill me with bliss just to give him one kiss,
But I know that a dozen I never would miss.
I'll go up in a great big balloon, and be with my man in the moon.
And behind a dark cloud where no one is allowed,
I'll make love to my man in the moon."

Circa: Late 1800's.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 06:30 PM

My Sweetheart's The Man In The Moon sheet music at Levy (pdf). Words and music by James Thornton, 1892.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 06:37 PM

Would that fit well with 'our' MITM? I've just picked my way through the chorus of that song - although on a D whistle it wasn't straightforward - and I'm not sure.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: GUEST,Lance the Librarian
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:26 PM

The Full English, on the September 2013 album called The Full English, pair words entitled The Man in the Moon, from the Alfred Williams collection, with a version of Scan Tester's tune.

I have not found this recording online at all, but the words can be found as part of the Full English database at the website of the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at
http://www.vwml.org/record/AW/5/112


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 06:49 PM

Curiouser and curiouser - can't imagine how this would fit. Great find!


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 05:51 AM

Never mind all this research - get yourself down the Beech with the tune and a song PE.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 05:00 PM

I'd like to know more about this song. Excuse my need for research...


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 08:15 PM

Lots more info and a video of The Full English performing the song here:

Man in the Moon

LFF


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 12:45 AM

Thanks LFF, but my page is mainly about the other Man in the Moon song, and was drawing on and referring to this thread already ;-)


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 07:49 AM

I can add some information on the Man In The Moon song that LanceTheLibrarian referenced above (17th Oct 13), collected by Alfred Williams (Roud 21397), the words that The Full English paired with Scan Tester's tune.

It was published in Everybody's song book, or, The saloon visitor's companion : being a choice selection of new & favourite songs, with imprint: Birmingham : Printed by W. Pratt; London : Published by J.T. Wood, [18—-]. (Maybe Steve can give us a better idea of the publishing date - addresses given as: Printed by W. Pratt, 82, Digbeth, Birmingham, and Published by J. T. Wood, 278, Strand, London. in case that helps).

I don't know if you want to start a new thread for this song Joe?

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 08:47 AM

And a further entry in a newspaper of 1862 gives it as a poem attributed to "R.F.G." Cardiff Times, 22nd August 1862 (Welsh Newspapers Online - The National Library of Wales).

This version does not have the first verse of the others. All versions differ slighly in the words. I'll see if I can put up a comparison.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Reinhard
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 09:21 AM

The Musical Traditions article Birmingham Ballad Printers gives us 1840s?-1861 for printer William Pratt, and the article J.T. Wood on the Strand says that "at least by January 1858 [Woood's] principal address was at 278 Strand."

Combining both ranges we would have a possible print date for Everybody's Song Book in 1858-1861.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 10:45 AM

Thanks for that Reinhard. So it looks as if the Cardiff newspaper version was taken from the book, which would probably accord with the missing first verse.


Here are the three versions side by side. (I had a fancy table which combined and colour-coded the lines to make it easier to see which were the same, but html table is forbidden here and I can't be bothered simulating it!)

Mick



Alfred Williams                                              Everybody's Song Book                                           Cardiff Times

When a bumper is filled, it is vexing, no doubt,             When a bumper is ordered, tis vexing no doubt,   
To find when you rise that the wine has run out;             To find when you'd fill that the wine is run out;   
And sure 'tis an equally unpleasant thing,                   And 'tis surely an equally unpleasant thing,   
To be asked for a song when you've nothing to sing.          To be asked for a song, when you've nothing to sing.   
I could try something old, if an old one would do,            I might try something old, if an old one would do,   
But the world it is craving to have something new,            But the world is still craving to have something new:   
What to select for the words or the tune,                     And what to select for the words or the tune,   
I, in fact, know no more than the Man in the Moon.            I in fact know no more than the man in the moon.   
The Man in the Moon a new light on us throws;                Ah! the man in the moon a new light on me throws,   
He's a man we all talk of but nobody knows;                   He's a man we all talk of, but nobody knows,   
And though a high subject, I'm getting in tune -             And though a high subject I'm getting in tune,   
I'll just have a turn at the Man in the Moon.                I'll just have a turn at the man in the moon.   
      
      
The Man in the Moon must lead a queer life,                   The man in the moon seems to lead a queer life,                THE Man in the Moon seems to lead a queer life,
With no one around, not even a wife,                         With no one about him, not even a wife;                         With no one around him, not even a wife;
No friends to console him, no children to kiss,               No friends to console him, no children to kiss,                No friends to console him, no children to kiss,
No chance of his joining a party like this.                   No chance of his joining a meeting like this.                   No chance of his joining a meeting like this.
He changes his house each quarter unpleasant,                His changing his lodging each quarter's unpleasant,             His changing his lodgings so often's unpleasant,
Living first in a circle and then in a crescent;             Living first in a circus and then in a crescent;                Living first in a Circus, and then in a Crescent;
If he rents by these quarters so fast going by,               If he rents by these quarters, so fast going by,                If he rents by those quarters so fast going by,
I should think he is rented uncommonly high.                  I should fancy he's rented uncommonly high;                     I should think he was rented uncommonly high.
But he's used to high life, for all circles agree,            But he's used to high life, for all circles agree,             But he's used to all this, for most people agree,
That none move in such a high circle as he,                   None are moving in such a high circle as he-                   There are none living in such high circles as he;
And though nobles go up in their royal balloon,               For though nobles go up in a royal balloon,                     And though nobles go up in a Royal Balloon,
They can't get introduced to the Man in the Moon.             They can't get introduced to the man in the moon.               They can't get introduced to the Man in the Moon.
      
      
'Tis said that some people are moonstruck, we find,          'Tis thought that all madmen are moon-struck we find,          It is said that all mankind are moon-struck we find,
And the Man in the Moon may be out of his mind,               And the man in the moon may be out of his mind;                And the Man in the Moon may be out of his mind;
But it can't be for love, for he's quite on his own,          But it can't be for love, for 'tis very well known,             But it can't be for love, for 'tis very well known
No girls there to meet him by moonlight alone;                There's no girls there to meet him by moonlight alone;          There are no girls there to meet him by moonlight alone
It can't be ambition, for rivals he's none,                   It can't be ambition, for rivals he's none,                     It can't be ambition, for rival he has none-
At least he is only eclipsed by the sun,                      At least, he is only eclipsed by the sun:                      At least, he is only eclipsed by the Sun;
And though in his prospects overclouded he sees,             Though his prospects are often o'erclouded he sees,             And though his prophets are sometime o'erclouded by these,
The Man in the Moon can make light of all these.             But the man in the moon can make light of all these.            Yet the Man in the Moon can light of all these.
In drinking, I fear, he may sometimes surpass,                In drinking, I fear he may sometimes surpass,                   At drinking, I fear, he can sometimes surpass,
For he always looks best when seen through a glass;          For he always looks best when he's seen through a glass;       As he always looks best when seen with a glass;
And in smoking, though you may smoke morning and noon,       Then for smoking, though we may smoke morning and noon,         At smoking, though we may smoke morning and noon,
You can't blow a cloud like the Man in the Moon.             We can't blow a cloud like the man in the moon.                We can't show a cloud like the Man in the Moon.
      
      
He's a mighty sad rake, he don't rise till it's dark,         He's a mighty sad rake, he don't rise till it's dark,          He's a mighty sad rake, for he rises at dark,
When the night it sets in he sets out for a lark;             And when night sets in he sets out for a lark;                  When the Sun's setting in, he goes out for a lark;
Goes roaming about and sings with the spheres,                Goes mooning about, and sings out to the spheres,-             He's roaming about, and sings out to the spheres-
'We won't go home till morning, till daylight appears.'       "We won't go home till morning and daylight appears."          He'll not go home till morning, and daylight appears.
He looks in at the stars that go shooting up there,          He looks in at the stars that go shooting up there,             He looks to the stars that are shooting up there,
Lets loose the Dog Star to bait the Great Bear;               And lets loose the Dog Star to bait the great Bear.             And lets loose the Dog Star to bait the Great Bear;
At the Milky Way calls for a minute or two,                   At the Milky-way stops for a minute or two,                     At the Milky-way stops for a moment or two,
Has some milk but don't pay, 'cos he swears 'tis sky blue;    Has some milk, but don't pay, 'cos he swears it's sky blue.    Has some milk, but won't pay, for he says 'tis sky-blue.
But daylight soon takes the shine out of him quite,          But daylight soon takes the shine out of him quite,             But the daylight soon takes the shine out of him quite,
He goes home and gets into bed by sunlight,                   And be goes home, and gets into bed by sunlight,                And the poor fellow turns into bed by sunlight;
And though you may think him a regular spoon,                And though you may think him a regular spoon,                   And though you may think him a regular spoon,
You'd be plagued to get over the Man in the Moon.             You'd be plagued to get over the man in the moon.               You'll be plagued to get over the Man in the Moon
                                                                                                                              Roath.                                          R. F. G.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 11:44 AM

And another copy eorge Ford's comic collection of favourite songs, as sung by G. Ford, at the various public places of amusement, published LONDON, Pattie, 31, Paternoster Row E.C. . Dated as 18--

Text is substantially the same as in the Everybodys Songbook, though in this version he leads a gay life (not queer), goes moonaying about (not mooning), and uses the dog star to bait the Polar Bear (not Great Bear). (There are other differences, these just struck me reading it!).

Kilgarriff gives George Ford as 1812?-72? But the BL catalogue lists a Man In The Moon by George Ford with first line "There's a man above all", which suggests it might be a different song, despite what's in the songster. Of course it could be just his name on it, the front page singles out only 4 of the songs he sang, though the book does say as sung by G.Ford at various places of public Amusement.

Kilgarriff also lists a Man In The Moon as being in the repertoire of Sadie Jerome, 1876-1950. This brought to sheet music for The Man In The Moon, published 1909, given as words Sadie Jerome, music G.Motherwell, although another index says cover says attributed to George Auld. No idea about this one!

Sadly The Man In The Moon is a popular title, there are many in the BL catalogue, and many in the various sheet music archives!

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 05:51 PM

I think the song I was interested in, was the one Reinhard has on the Mainly Norfolk Website:I heard it at our San Francisco New Year's camp, and I posted from my phone to remind me to research it further. Now I can't remember who sang it, but I think this is the right one. Reinhard links to a performance of the song by The Full English.
Thanks, Reinhard, as always.
Happy New Year!
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 06:08 PM

Joe - that's the song my last few posts were about. The Full English put the words to Scan Tester's Man In The Moon waltz.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: RTim
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 07:28 PM

I can't resist - a song and tune by my old friend (and my son's Godmother) Jehanne Mehta.....a lovely song! IMHO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yrSTj8Siy8&index=5&list=PLxrZgG6VwsKOFwTrj3o9WMUzwXdfK6-cu&t=0s

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: topical tom
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 01:37 PM

Is this the song?


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: topical tom
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 01:41 PM

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=if+the+man+in+the+moon+was+a+coo


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: topical tom
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 01:45 PM

Sorry, I messed up on the two previous posts.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 04:51 PM

Sorry, Mick, just spotted this one. Your Pratt song is Roud 21377 and it was printed by The Glasgow Poet's Box in 1857 so that takes it back a bit further. The air given there is 'The Irish Washerwoman'. I don't know if this relates to any of the tunes you have. Broadside printers often just added any tune that might fit if they didn't have the original. it does actually go quite well to 'Irish Washerwoman'.


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 05:55 PM

Steve - that should be Roud 21397. Thanks for the Glasgow Poet's Box reference. That's 4 new entries for Steve Roud to add when he updates! (at VWML at least).

I presume the text is substantially the same as those above and I can see The Irish Washerwoman fits it well. (You can tell Fay Hield she's been using the wrong tune!).

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 06:05 PM

I reckon waltz time works better than jig time.

Are we yet any closer to finding out
a) whether Scan's tune was so called because it was the tune for a Man in the Moon song, and
b) what tune(s) was/were used for the song originally?


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 07:10 PM

Richard

I did start looking at sheet music with Man In The Moon in the title, but without finding Scan's tune so far (there are a lot of Men in the Moon!).

The Irish Washerwoman mentioned by Steve for the Glasgow Poet's Box edition is the only tune mentioned in the sources I've found. The Alfred Williams copy (the only one listed in Roud at VWML, and with a copy there) is text only.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Man in the Moon - old song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 01:26 PM

Yes, sorry about that, a typo by me. I have 21397.


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