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BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012

Charley Noble 15 Jan 12 - 10:59 AM
Megan L 15 Jan 12 - 11:53 AM
polaitaly 15 Jan 12 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,Eliza 15 Jan 12 - 01:23 PM
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Subject: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 10:59 AM

Last Friday the Costa Concordia cruise liner struck a reef and subsequently sunk near to shore off the coast of Italy. Here's a link to the best story I've been able to find: click here for report!

"The 114,500-tonne Costa Concordia was on a trip around the Mediterranean when it "hit an obstacle" near the island of Giglio off the coast of Tuscany."

The Costa Concordia has the dubious distinction of being the largest cruise liner to ever have sunk.

Over 4000 people were aboard, three are confirmed dead and 17 are still missing according to this report.

The captain safely evacuated the ship after grounding it adjacent to the shore, and is under investigation for manslaughter. He had abandoned the ship before the vast majority of passengers were safely ashore.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Megan L
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 11:53 AM

Lets not start yet another mudcat witch hunt


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: polaitaly
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 01:21 PM

The captain is now in jail (rightfully)
paola


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 01:23 PM

But only while investigations are made. Innocent until proved guilty and all that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 01:33 PM

What IS strange is how it came to collide with a large rock in the narrow channel. It's made the passage before, and so have dozens of other cruise ships. It must have been badly off course. Also, I heard (unsubstantiated) that their passenger and crew lists were incomplete. If so, that's a grave fault. In the event of an accident or sinking, how can one be sure all lives are accounted for?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnomad
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 01:56 PM

Known death toll has risen to five, but given some 4000 plus persons on board that is remarkably few. They have even got a handful of people out of her who had been trapped.

As for why it happened, I feel that is best left to the marine investigation authorities. We are, after all, not there, not experts, and only in possession of information filtered through journalists whose main term of reference is what will sell a story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 02:02 PM

Outside the obvious concerns for those lost, what caused the mishap, and environmental issues, I am very curious as to how the ship will be recovered/re-floated, or salvaged? I suspect someone is devising a plan for that as we post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 02:03 PM

Absolutely right, gnomad and Megan. Our knowledge of what happened is very limited, and any comments we might make are little more than guesswork. This is best left to those in a position to find out, for the time being.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 02:04 PM

Certainly so. It's all conjecture at this point. "Jailing" the captain is standard procedure. I doubt he's in jail but would ASSUME simply being part of an accident investigation.

As for running agroud, SO many factors come into play...maybe a thruster not responding because of a mechanical or electrical or electronic or... all conjecture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 02:06 PM

With a 50 meter gash in her, well, I supposed recovery and reuse can be done. Gonna be a big job, though.

I will be interested in the report of the Maritime Commission. I assume that these ships carry the equivalent of airline "black boxes."


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 04:13 PM

No need to find the captain guilty yet and, it's certainly true, that getting the mortally injured ship that close to shore probably minimized loss of life. However, this is a headline story and I'm certainly interested in what conclusions come out of the investigation.

Meanwhile, feel free to speculate, without indulging in a "witch hunt."

It's unclear at this point what the ship hit, whether it was a rock ledge or perhaps a semi-submerged derelict. One would think that the rocks and ledges in the area would be well mapped and, if so, a major factor would be navigational error. The tides in the Mediterranean should not be a factor; they only vary a foot or two. How heavily the ship was loaded, however, could be a factor.

The captain had sailed this route many times before. So there should have been no surprises.

The lack of a lifeboat drill prior to the accident is obviously a lapse in safety procedures.

How well the officers and crew conducted themselves after the accident cannot be determined at this point.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 04:47 PM

She went down last January
On a clear and calm nice day
The skipper he was sober
And the mate was the same way
To close to a sunken something
She was dealt a mortal blow
And Costa Concordia settled low....


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 05:29 PM

Captain says...'oh there were no rocks marked around there.."

Italian Coast Guard says: 'Oh there WERE rocks marked as dangerous in that area!'

Area residents say:'.. various of ship's crew had friends & relatives along that coast, and the ship often sailed 'close' so they could wave. This time they just got too close.'


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 05:42 PM

One of the "alleged rocks" appears still lodged in the ship's starboard side if you look at the photos.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 05:50 PM

salvage projects


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 05:53 PM

Make that the "port side," where the rock is lodged.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 07:42 PM

Here's an update from Al Jazeera:

Maritime authorities, passengers and mounting evidence pointed toward the captain of a cruise liner that ran aground and capsized off the Tuscan coast, amid accusations that he abandoned ship before everyone was safely evacuated and was showing off when he steered the vessel far too close to shore.

The Costa Crociera company, which owns the Costa Concordia cruise ship, released a statement refuting the earlier claims by Captain Francisco Schettino, saying that the captain had "made an error of judgment which has had serious consequences."

"The route followed by the ship was too close to the coast and it seems decisions in emergency management have not followed procedures in line with those followed by Costa Crociere which in some cases go beyond international standards," said the statement, released late on Sunday.

Authorities were holding Schettino for suspected manslaughter and a prosecutor confirmed on Sunday they were also investigating allegations the captain abandoned the stricken liner before all the passengers had escaped.

According to the Italian navigation code, a captain who abandons a ship in danger can face up to 12 years in prison.

A French couple who boarded the Concordia in Marseille, Ophelie Gondelle and David Du Pays, said they saw the captain in a lifeboat, covered by a blanket, well before all the passengers were off the ship.

"The commander left before and was on the dock before everyone was off," said Gondelle, 28, a French military officer.

Schettino is sticking to his claim that the rocks which sank the vessel were not marked on the nautical charts.

"I firmly believe that the rocks were not detected as the ship was not heading forward, but sideways," he said in an interview. "I don't know if it was detected or not, but on the nautical chart it was marked just as water, at some 100, to 150 meters from the rocks, and we were about 300 meters from the shore."


Evidently the damaged ship was floating for about an hour before launching lifeboats was attempted. By that time her list was too extreme to launch them all.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:20 PM

a retired captain spoke on the radio this morning & said in modern ships people are so busy watching screens that they forget to use Eye Mark 1 - no visual observations are made as crew do not look up from their screens & so don't notice anything that is not being scanned for.

Eyes were invented long before computers & are so good they haven't been improved.

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 12:58 AM

I was under the impression that the vessel was not under control, since all control systems were down, because the electrical power was down. Perhaps I err.


I also don't quite see the wisdom of the decision to abandon ship rather than at least to wait until daylight. It seems that although listing the ship was firmly aground so not going to sink any further, and there were many areas above water.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Little Robyn
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 04:26 AM

And she ran aground on a lump of coal
That wasn't marked on the charts.

Was the Captain named James E Duff?
The Mary Ann McHugh did this a long time ago!
Robyn


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 06:39 AM

What a bunch of armchair experts we have here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 07:08 AM

Yes indeed, with nothing useful to do other than to pontificate!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 07:33 AM

It all seems very restrained by mudcat standards - until Silas and Bozo inveighed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: JennieG
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 07:34 AM

My son spent a few years working on cruise ships (he's a musician) and knows of this line. He said it doesn't have a good reputation in the cruise ship world.....as in all industries, people talk amongst themselves.

Cheers
JennieG


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 07:36 AM

Sating with Charley, who kicked the thread off with this: "The captain safely evacuated the ship after grounding it adjacent to the shore, and is under investigation for manslaughter. He had abandoned the ship before the vast majority of passengers were safely ashore." Which is plainly wrong one way or another, whatever the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 07:50 AM

Richard, please don't mention me in the same sentance as that w**^k3r


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 08:07 AM

Was it the first time that the Captain had ever sailed that route? If he truly was not aware of the dangers or experienced in that stretch of water the shipping company should share some of the blame but then if they admit to that they could loose a fortune from lack of bookings or cancelled bookings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 10:01 AM

As mentioned above and in the reports the captain had navigated this route in the same ship many times before. This time he obviously came too close to the shore. The captain claims he was 300 meters out, not 100 meters from shore as some allege, but we'll see what the recovered black boxes have to say about that.

"I was under the impression that the vessel was not under control, since all control systems were down, because the electrical power was down." Marine experts claim that major cruise liners have redundant back-up systems in case of the lose of power; loss of power should not be a major factor in explaining how this accident happened.

I also agree that most of the posters on this tread have been fairly restrained, unlike Megan, Silas and Bozo. What witch hunt? This is a major marine catastrophe and merits discussion. References to on-line reports would be appreciated.

But look at the side of the rock lodged in the port side of the Concordia. That was not a random encounter nor an aggressive move on the part of the rock. Someone blundered.

There are more reports this morning, one from an Italian Coast Guard official who met him on shore and one from a military officer who was a passenger, reinforcing the case against the captain's early departure from the mortally stricken ship.

It is a miracle that no more than a dozen or so lives were lost in this accident.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 10:16 AM

Now I am getting a bit pissed off with my name being brought into this. I only posted to make the point that far too many people were making crass judgements on no evidence. 'This time he obviously came too close to the shore' HOW DO YOU KNOW?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 10:18 AM

Rescue efforts were suspended today after the hull began to shift again.

Here's an update from Al Jazerra: click here for report!

Anyone find other interesting reports?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 10:40 AM

OK, you think all this is reasonable?

The captain is now in jail (rightfully)

It's made the passage before, and so have dozens of other cruise ships. It must have been badly off course.

lso, I heard (unsubstantiated) that their passenger and crew lists were incomplete

"maybe a thruster not responding because of a mechanical or electrical or electronic or... all conjecture."

"One would think that the rocks and ledges in the area would be well mapped and, if so, a major factor would be navigational error"

"there should have been no surprises."

"This time they just got too close."

"He said it doesn't have a good reputation in the cruise ship world.."

"This time he obviously came too close to the shore"



Did no one see the report about sysmic activity in this area and the possibility of a seabed movement?

Why not give it a rest and allow the proper authorities to do thier job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 11:01 AM

Silas-

You are the one who is obviously trolling this thread. Happy?

Either do your own homework or give it a rest.

What report of sysmic activity?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 11:03 AM

Oh, and make that "seismic activity" for clarification.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 11:09 AM

Ok Charley boy, you carry on with your groundless speculations if thats what floats your boat. What good it will do is a mystery to me, but it could do a lot of harm and cause people a lot of needless heartache.

But its up to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 11:16 AM

I'd be somewhat surprised if a seismic movement big enough to put the land in the way of the ship had escaped hitherto unnoticed. If one can rule that out, then it is inevitable to conclude that the ship was too close to the shore (rather than the other way round).

The question then remains "why"?

If the ship was under control, with systems functioning, then there seems little possibility other than human error.

If the ship did not have systems functioning but was navigable, a close-to-shore course would seem rash - and one wants to know why the systems were out of kilter, too.

If the ship was not navigable - well, hell, I've had a number of Italian cars and their electrics were crap - and I've had a number of hi-tech Italian electronics gizmos and their reputations are crap too. BUT the second that control was lost maydays should have gone out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 11:23 AM

Lots and lots of 'ifs' there Richard


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 11:47 AM

Ah, but if you read carefully you'll see that there is a tree structure with alternatives in it. One path OR the other, the law of the excluded middle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 11:52 AM

Ah, I didn't spot that! Are you using Trumpington's Variations?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 12:46 PM

No


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 01:27 PM

"Ok Charley boy, you carry on with your groundless speculations if thats what floats your boat."

Seems like what we're talking about is rather the opposite of floating one's boat, now isn't it?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 01:32 PM

Irony is just lost on some people...


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 01:50 PM

Seems captain went close to the shore to wave at a friend, "showing off" as one crew member put it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: foggers
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 01:56 PM

Surely any evolving news story is a fit topic for a mudcat BS thread? And it is quite restrained by 'catter standards!

Just seen a channel 5 TV news bulletin; the vessel was supposed to take a route to the west of the island. However it had become a habit to pass to the east of the island, close in, in order to be a bit of a spectacle for local tourists. The captain says he was 300m from shore and that there were no rocks on the charts. He is under arrest pending the investigation and the cruise company seem keen to attribute it to human error.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 02:10 PM

Megan did about what I would do as mod: express a concern that this thread not turn into the usual conjecture filled with snide, personal remarks, etc.

I can't see that anyone person has any first-hand knowledge and can tell what really happened.

I am constantly amazed at how much like "Faux" news the BS section has become, at least by a glance of thread titles. It used to be we would have some rousing grand debates about major news items, but now it seems as if any "news" is fair game to flood Mudcat with rancourous sniping, etc. I am NOT saying this thread is that way, just mentioning how ugly the BS section seems, sometimes, due to the posting of so much polarising, non-important news crap, imo.

katgrumpy - mod


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 03:15 PM

Until the report of investigation becomes available some months from now, all is conjecture, anecdote, BS.

The only item that now seems certain is that the ship went off the charted course, according to satellite images, veering west towards Isola del Giglio. (BBC News).

No black box data will be revealed to the press.
Why the ship ran aground is not known.

All else seems to be speculation by passengers and crew members who were not part of the bridge, thus not party to navigational or instrumental information.

The captain says he was not at fault. The company official in an interview said it was human error and seemed to imply that it was on the part of the captain. What else would you expect them to say?

There will be legal actions on the part of the company, insurers, passengers and crew (Those on contract involved in entertainment, etc.).

My wife enjoyed cruises, but never were on board a vessel of this size. Some 3800 passengers plus a large crew (many on short-term contract), it seems to me, cannot be safely managed in case of accident.

In any case, I do not have any stock in Carnival (the overall manager of this ship and many others), which dropped some 20 percent, nor did I have any friends or relatives aboard the ship, so I will not lose sleep over the accident.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 03:29 PM

Kat... I say it's the winter blues affecting posters... or it could be... >;-)

All conjecture all over again.

As far as a Cap'n goin down with the ship after the abandone ship order is given, that might be a discussion. But, that discussion would have nothing to do with this thread at this point in time. And, a new thread on that topic would be rife with conjecture and postulations which would make that thread a piece of complete BS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 03:59 PM

What a shame to lose that beautiful ship! And it's sad about the lives that were lost too...but it's very fortunate that almost everyone got off the ship okay.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 05:01 PM

There still may be some prospects of successful salvage, which is under assessment now.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 07:25 PM

Ya think, gnu?:-> Could be, still...naw, not going there.*bg*

What I've just read is they are trying to salvage fuel, etc. to keep it from leaking out and harming the environment. I hope they are successful. What a nightmare the whole thing must be, in so many ways.

I guess one good thing is there are no polar bears asking if they've got any news of the iceberg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 03:49 PM

I think that speculation on this thread is legitimate ,but the head of Costa Cruises was much too quick to publicly put all the blame on the captain and the media was too quick to go along with that . The ship was obviously too close to the shore , but according to reports on Reuters yesterday the Costa Concordia often sailed close to that island honking its siren to entertain tourists there . Did the owners of the ship know about this ? If they didn't , why not? That's something that an inquiry should determine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 03:55 PM

Actually much of the conjecture coincides rather well with the latest on NPR. Sadly, there appear to be quite a few more gone missing than originally hoped for. Plane crashes and shipwrecks are, alas, pretty predictable.

They played the tape of the Coast Guard ordering the captain back to his vessel, and him alternately claiming that he was aboard and not aboard.

To all appearances the skipper is a bit of a merchant banker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 04:36 PM

Greg-

I agree that translated interview, as broadcast by NPR, with the Italian Coast Guard officer and the captain on shore is particularly damning. The Coast Guard officer is heard repeatedly ordering the captain back to the ship to better assess how the evacuation is going. The captain is reluctant to go back. Eventually the captain says he will go back but there is no evidence that he or his second officer ever did that.

There are other reports that the captain called the head waiter up to the bridge so he could wave to his relatives as they passed close to the island. No doubt his relatives were astonished by what they witnessed.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 04:58 PM

We used to say that the two most commonly-uttered last words before a fatal low-altitude light aircraft accident are "Watch this!" Apparently hot-dogging close to terra-firma is also a bad idea in a cruise ship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 05:52 PM

The inquiry shouldn't be conducted by the media. The tapes from the coast guard should be properly examined , experts called about the sea charts witnesses on board called to testify , the owners of the ship questioned about safety procedures etc .At least Admiral Byng got a court martial before they shot him .

The cruiser has been described as a huge floating pleasure palace. A lot of its crew seem to have been more like waiters, croupiers and entertainers than properly trained sailors .Was that the captain's fault? One passenger interviewed on CNN about the ship's safety drill said that it turned out to be a sales pitch for shore excursions. A woman who was at a life boat drill said that the crew did try their best to show people how to put on life vests but the passengers were only interested in trying to get drinks and take photos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:16 PM

Enuf yakity-yak ! Let's get on with the lynching. Who will provide the rope and the tree?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:18 PM

Having worked as an entertainer on ferries - Only single round trip cross chanel and Weeked gigs , NOT long cruises , we were never fully briefed as to what we should do in an emergency , though on the weekenders we were treated as 'crew' .
Reports of the most recent bodies found being in muster areas leaves me wondering what sort of 'safety drill' practises had ANYONE on the boat done .


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:30 PM

Entertainers, gigolos, boutique keepers. Many of these on the big boats. My dentist of a few years ago played piano on them, and another friend as a gigolo by the cruise lines, to dance and chat with single ladies (mostly old hags).


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:37 PM

The average "old hag" was once a lovely young thing. Keep that in mind and learn some humility. Time catches up with all of us, unless we dodge it by dying young.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:39 PM

Only a very small percentage of the crew on those things are "mariners," properly speaking. Aside from not having the skills, they also really don't have the mind-set. If you think that land based immigrant workers are exploited, take a look at the service staff on cruise ships. The only difference is that on the ships it's legal, indeed, protected by international law. But if you think that one of these wage-slaves has any interest at all in any sort of heroics to save the "posh folk" from the briny deep, think again. They're just trying to feed their families in some 3rd-world country, and if they don't make it home, that family may well starve.

All in all, modern cruise ships represent a lot of eggs in one basket, and it's getting worse.

On my one cruise, aboard what was at the time one of the largest passenger ships, the Sun Princess, with 1990 passengers and 900 crew, I felt that way. The new ships double those numbers!

And it doesn't take a wreck to have a lot of problems to deal with all at once. The things are notorious communicable disease incubators, with passengers and crew crowding together after getting off airliners from the world over and then exposing one another to novel bacteria and viruses.

A couple days into my own cruise, I contracted the worst gastro-intestinal bug I've ever had. It was then that I also learned that ship's medics are notoriously cagey about discussing how many other folks are falling ill while on board. Fortunately, I recovered quickly and was paddling a sea kayak the next day.

On top of that, at least to my eye, the latest ships with their stacks of decks, seem un-seaworthy and butt-ugly to boot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 07:33 PM

Thanks, Little Hawk, for taking up the cudgel so quickly. Describing as 'old hags' the "single ladies" on board most cruiseships by a self-confessed elderly man is an exercise of uncalled-for snarkiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 07:43 PM

I'm not even sure the captain in this case deserves credit for running his crippled ship into shallow water after it had collided with the ledge. Maybe he just panicked. The ship might have been able to limp into the nearby harbor. However, I'm willing to wait for the results of the investigation on that question.

I am quite willing at this point to condemn him and his second officer for abandoning the ship while there were still hundreds of passengers and crew left aboard desperately trying to save their lives. Anyone here still want to stand up for the captain in question?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 07:50 PM

I'm not going to play "Arm chair expert", but I will say that a ship has a couple of mortal enemies; storms and land.
Number one rule is keep plenty of water under your keel.And, as Lindseys Law says, "When your draft exceeds the depth of the water, you are most assuredly aground."

Last, I spent most of my adult life at sea and some in the position of Captain. For a Captain to abandon ship with so many people still aboard is just not done. That shame will follow him all his life. And, it doesn't matter if he was totally innocent of causing the wreck. The Captain is responsible for everything that happens aboard.

As Captain Ahab said, "There is only one God in heaven, and only one God aboard the Pequod."


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 09:40 PM

Well, the Cap'n is the last one off a ship. That's the rule. Does it apply in this case? Time will tell. Should it apply in this case? Time will tell.

All else is conjecture at this point.

But, yes... the Cappy should be the last off... by rule, no? Do you believe in that rule? Should it be an absolute rule no matter what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 09:55 PM

I don't think he's being criticized for grounding the ship. I think it's because he left. I heard the recordings, with translation, earlier today. It pretty much went the way Charley said above. The captain also said it was getting dark and he wanted to go home. That was why he didn't want to go back to the ship and check for passengers.

I don't know exactly how much trouble he's in, but I bet he doesn't captain any more ships.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 10:46 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if they suspended his captaining license for at least 30 days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:20 AM

He was sitting in a lifeboat while hundreds were still waiting.
He said it was dark and the ship was listing.
Bless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:53 AM

This wasn't the first time that the ship had sailed close to the island. It did so last August WITH the permission and knowledge of the owners. So its not all black and white and sqeaky clean at the US end of things. I quote:

From: MARHST-L@LISTS.QUEENSU.CA
Cruise captain given house arrest

Italian judges have put under house arrest the captain of a cruise ship that crashed into rocks on Friday.

Prosecutors say Francesco Schettino caused the crash and also fled the Costa Concordia while passengers were still stranded.

A recording of a call between Capt Schettino and a port official after the crash appears to support this, though Capt Schettino denies the claims.

Rescuers have recovered 11 bodies and are searching for 24 missing people.

The local authority says 20 passengers are still missing. They include people from Germany, Italy, France and the US.

Four crew members - one each from Italy, Hungary, India and Peru - are also missing following the incident, just off the coast of the island of Giglio Porto.

Meanwhile, new satellite information shown to the BBC's Newsnight programme shows that the vessel had a "near miss" even closer to the island last August, in a diversion that was apparently approved by the ship's owners, Costa Cruises.

'It's too dark'

A recording of a call between Capt Schettino and a port official shortly after the crash appears to support the prosecutors' accusation that the captain left the vessel while passengers were still on board.
In the recording, released by the Corriere della Sera newspaper, Livorno Port Authority chief Gregorio de Falco can be heard repeatedly telling the captain to get back on board the ship to help the stranded passengers.

"Schettino, maybe you saved yourself from the sea, but I'll make you have trouble for sure. Go aboard," says Mr De Falco.

The captain appears to refuse, replying first that there are rescuers already on board, and then that it is dark and difficult to see.

Mr De Falco replies: "Do you want to go home, Schettino? It's dark, so you want to go home?"

Coastguards believe he never went back to the ship. He was arrested shortly afterwards and has been held in jail since.

Bodies discovered

But during a court hearing on Tuesday, the captain said he could not get on board the vessel because it was lying on its side.

He argued that after hitting rocks he had executed a difficult manoeuvre that had saved many people's lives.

His lawyer Bruno Leporatti later announced that the judge had decided to release the captain from jail and place him under house arrest.
Prosecutor Francesco Verusio, who had argued that Capt Schettino was a flight risk, said he did not understand the ruling.

"I'm keen to read the reasoning," he said.

Meanwhile, rescuers found six more bodies in the wreck of the ship on Tuesday, bringing the confirmed death toll to 11.

"The five victims are a woman and four men, who could be passengers, but we are not sure," said coastguard spokesman Filippo Marini.
He added that the dead people were between 50 and 60 years old, and were wearing life-jackets.

The bodies were found near one of the assembly points where people were told to gather in an emergency.

The authorities are also battling to avoid an environmental disaster, amid fears that the cruise ship's fuel tanks could break apart and shed thousands of tonnes of diesel into the sea.

Specialist salvage teams have been drafted in, and are due to start pumping the fuel out in the coming days.

The BBC's Peter Biles: "Footage shows the passengers dwarfed by the vastness of the ship"

The ship, carrying 4,200 passengers and crew, had its hull ripped open when it hit rocks late on Friday, just hours after leaving the port of Civitavecchia for a week-long Mediterranean cruise.

Some people were forced to swim for shore as the angle of the ship made launching lifeboats impossible.

Infrared footage taken from a helicopter showed lines of people climbing ropes down the exposed hull of the vessel to reach rescue boats on the water.

'Near miss'

Meanwhile, satellite tracking information given to the BBC by the shipping journal, Lloyd's List Intelligence, shows that the Costa Concordia sailed closer to Giglio island on a cruise last August than it did on its disastrous voyage on Friday.

Lloyd's List told the BBC that the vessel passed within 230m of the island on 14 August 2011 to mark La Notte di San Lorenzo - the night of the shooting stars festival on the island.

The route deviation on that occasion had been authorised by Costa Cruises - the company which owns the vessel.

Lloyd's List has published data suggesting a near miss occurred in a very similar location in August

The company said on Monday that the ship was never closer than 500m to the coast when it passed on 14 August.

Lloyd's List describes that occasion as a "near miss" and says the ship's route would have been less than 200m away from the point of collision on Friday's voyage.

Costa Cruises said on Monday that the route deviation last Friday had been "unauthorised, unapproved and unknown to Costa".

But Richard Meade, the Editor of Lloyd's List, said: "The company's account of what happened, of the rogue master [Capt Schettino] taking a bad decision, isn't quite as black and white as they presented originally."

"This ship took a very similar route only a few months previously and the master would have known that."

Costa Cruises says it is looking into the claims, but stands by the statement it gave on Monday.

Nautical charts

Meanwhile, Lloyd's List says the issue of which nautical charts the captain of the vessel was using looks likely to be critical to his defence if he does face a criminal prosecution.

The UK Hydrographic Office (UKHO) has issued a statement declining to comment on whether its charts were being used. No rocks are shown on the UKHO's chart at the position where the Costa Concordia sank.

The UKHO points out that its charts are only at the 1:300,000 scale and that Italian charts are available on a much larger scale.

"It should be noted that this small scale chart is considered to be unsuitable for close inshore navigation," the UKHO told Lloyds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16604154

Unquote:


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:56 AM

Apparently a class action by 70 or more passengers is pending.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 06:31 AM

Cruises had never really appealed to me. Unfortunately in the 60s and 70s growing up I had this notion that it was all going to be a bit like a Carry-on movie, it was the last thing I would have dreamed of doing for a vacation and in my mind then (wrongly) just for much older people who's only interests centered around bingo, sequence dancing and the cabaret in the evening. But mostly I had the view (wrongly) that people who went on cruises were possibly not adventureous enough to travel through or stay anywhere long enough to get to know the culture of a particular country. Now that I am older I can see the benefits of a cruise ship as a relaxing base with the option of a range of activities ashore for some people it can be ideal but what prevents me is the mentioned notion above about older single women considered as hags.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM

I cruise quite often (in double figures). I've always said it doesn't suit everyone, but it combines my wife's enjoyment of relaxation with my low boredom threshold if I stay in one place too long and the better providers run seminars, which suits me. For example, I did a short astronomy course on my last trip. On another I took part in a performance of Pirates of Penzance that took several hours of rehearsal a day; very enjoyable, thank you!

There is really quite a wide range of style depending on the provider - some I find horribly glitzy, others are much more visually and environmentally pleasant. I've sailed with perhaps six companies, but not Costa. All have been good with the safety musters, but the same can't be said for the passengers. Too many don't pay attention: I admit to being rather inattentive on planes myself, as I suspect many people are. Passengers on cruise ships seem more attentive to these talks than airline passengers, but not by very much.

As for the comments on age: yes, there are far more older passengers as a proportion than the general population, but there are probably rather more under 30s than many might expect, even on child-free ships.

Will this accident will put us off? No.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM

Patsy, I get terribly seasick, and a cruise would be the last thing I'd consider! But loads of my old friends adore them and, as you say, find having a base on board the ship and evening entertainment to be just what they want. I applaud Little Hawk's censure of the term 'old hags'. But I'm robust enough never to mind what ageist twits think of women of my age. Solo or as a couple, people are there on holiday and are free to enjoy their chosen trip without abuse like that!
Like tragic aircrashes, a disaster like this might put folk off a cruise, but I'm sure there are hundreds of successful voyages by dozens of different companies, there will always be customers to enjoy them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:13 AM

CJB-

Thanks for posting those reports above.

I can't imagine any luxury cruise ship captain using charts at 1:300,000 scale for navigating several hundred meters from shore.

The captain evidently had an hour after the initial collision to assess the situation before deciding to ground his ship in shallow waters. Some have questioned whether he should have ordered the lifeboats deployed earlier than he did. I'll be interested in what the investigation concludes about that.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:16 AM

Don't know why they bother with an investigation Charley, might as well just lock him up and throw the key away. After all, who needs facts when you have mudcatter speculation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 12:34 PM

I don't comment on whether it is right or wrong, I simply said it is traditional for the Captain to be the last to leave a sinking ship.

As far as him losing his license, what happened to the Captain of the ESSO Valdez? Last I knew he was teaching navigation!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 01:31 PM

Just heard on the BBC Evening News that the Captain is now saying he slipped and fell into a lifeboat!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 01:51 PM

He certainly sounds like a slippery character! And lucky, eh?!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:04 PM

He certainly needs a haircut!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:08 PM

The Italians appear to want his throat cut.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:27 PM

I just saw a pic of him. He looks able-bodied and not old in THAT pic. If that IS the case, I should think questioning why he left when he did is valid. However, self-preservation is hard to overcome, even for the strongest of us. I certainly do not know what I would do faced with possible death by drowning. I'd like to think I would do all I could do for those in my charge but I wasn't there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:35 PM

Come on folks, let's wait until he is found guilty, then hang him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:44 PM

His second in command was in the same lifeboat.
They must have both slipped on the same banana skin.
These things happen all the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:07 PM

From CBC radio program "As It Happens"

The captain going down with the ship has become a metaphor for honour, integrity and responsibility.

Francesco Schettino is the captain of the Costa Concordia, which ran aground off the west coast of Italy on Friday. He did not go down with his ship. He was safely aboard a lifeboat while hundreds of his passengers and teams of rescue workers remained on the dangerously listing vessel. Here's his radio conversation with a Coast Guard officer admonishing Schettino to return to his ship. This audio was first posted on the website of the Italian daily, Corriere della Sera.

Here is that recording, with translation provided by the BBC


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:12 PM

Let's be fair. It may have been a bit icy on deck. He may have stood in some custard. He may have been wearing very slippery shoes. Soemone may have pushed him and his second-in-command onto some seaweed. The lifeboat was fortunately just underneath. We mustn't condemn the man just yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:32 PM

"Yer honor, we find the defendant not guilty."
"Mr. Foreman, you and the jury will have to go back and reconsider, because we hanged him an hour ago."


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:41 PM

The captain's own words, as translated on the PBC/BBC links, will convict him.

That may be his only conviction...

He should have had more.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:53 PM

one report

I read one report that the captain sailed close as a favor to the 'chief waiter' (as had been done before)... and the last line of the above link says:

"Half an hour before disaster struck, the waiter's sister posted an entry on her Facebook page saying she had been told the ship was "going to pass really close", and sending "a big hello to my brother".

One more report including this:"The father of the ship's head waiter told Reuters that his son had telephoned him before the accident to say the crew would salute him by blowing the ship's whistle as they passed by the island of Giglio, where both the waiter, Antonello Tievoli, and his 82-year-old father Giuseppe live.

"The ship obviously came too close," the elder Tievoli said, according to Reuters.

I don't know if Antonello asked the captain to come near, but the responsibility is always the captain's."

Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper quoted witnesses as saying that shortly before the accident, the captain called the head waiter to the bridge saying, "Antonello, come see, we are very close to your Giglio."

Yes...those are technically 'hearsay', but there does seems to be a pattern emerging.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 04:48 PM

According to one report I read, the captain had spent much of the night drinking in the bar with a beautiful woman on his arm.
Does anybody know if the captain of a ship is supposed to be capable and on duty at all times ? If this particular captain had been drinking when the ship hit the rocks , would he be able to claim in his defence that he was off duty at the time ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:06 PM

In Italy, all that might win him some favor in the court of public opinion, but I doubt it would in court....


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:53 PM

It was a hypothetical question Bill . I was wondering if there is any law that says the captain of a ship isn't allowed to get drunk when off duty. Does he have to be sober and capable of responding to a crisis at all times ? If he was off duty and sloshed at the time of the accident that would be a mitigating factor for him , I would have thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 06:53 PM

I would 'think' a captain would be expected to remain legally sober while the ship is on the seas. There are others who assume command while the captain sleeps...etc... but a captain should be available at all times in cases of emergency.
Now I have no direct knowlege of that rule, and I have no doubt that, whether or not such a rule exists, captains of various vessels DO sometimes get drunk. There is testimony that the captain of the Exxon Valdez was 'impaired' when it ran aground in Alaska.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:26 PM

Well, the good news for old Joe Hazlewood is that he is no longer the shittiest skipper in memory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 10:26 PM

Article 3

Liability of the carrier

1. The carrier shall be liable for the damage suffered as a result of the death of or personal injury to a passenger and the loss of or damage to luggage if the incident which caused the damage so suffered occurred in the course of the carriage and was due to the fault or neglect of the carrier or of his servants or agents acting within the scope of their employment.

2. The burden of proving that the incident which caused the loss or damage occurred in the course of the carriage, and the extent of the loss or damage, shall lie with the claimant.

3. Fault or neglect of the carrier or of his servants or agents acting within the scope of their employment shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, if the death of or personal injury to the passenger or the loss of or damage to cabin luggage arose from or in connexion with the shipwreck, collision, stranding, explosion or fire, or defect in the ship. In respect of loss of or damage to other luggage, such fault or neglect shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, irrespective of the nature of the incident which caused the loss or damage. In all other cases the burden of proving fault or neglect shall lie with the claimant.



       -- Athens Convention relating to the Carriage of Passengers and their Luggage by Sea, 1974


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:10 AM

But there is limitation of liability - see here including a link to conversion rates: -

http://www.imo.org/About/Conventions/ListOfConventions/Pages/Athens-Convention-relating-to-the-Carriage-of-Passengers-and-their-Luggage-by-Sea-(PAL).aspx


http://tinyurl.com/7p6s8km


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 05:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQsOgyV6LI&feature=related


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:05 AM

mayomick-

That link was certainly an eyeful.

The captain of the Costa Concordian definitely needed a lawyer to remind him to keep his mouth shut. With each new statement he is just slip-slip-sliding deeper into the abyss.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:11 AM

Eliza seasickness is one of the other reasons that I would hesitate to book a cruise. The more that is emerging about the Captain I question his sanity to sail a ship in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:25 AM

Here's a link to the best set of photos of the ship I've found, during and after it was run ashore: click here for PIXS

You may have to scroll way down to find the right story. Sorry, maybe someone else can find a more direct link.

What a nightmare!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 09:36 AM

If you walk in your sleep, cruises may not a wise option:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 10:39 AM

mayomick, if the Captain is aboard, he is responsible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:00 PM

Kendall-

Maybe he was thinking that if he "jumped ship" he'd no longer be responsible.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:56 PM

Let's try this link for photos of the sunken ship: click here for PIXS

I think this one works directly. At least it did when I checked it.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 01:28 PM

Evidently the Captain Schettino had company as he tripped and fell into a lifeboat:

Mr Schettino told investigating magistrates in Grosseto, on the Italian mainland, that he ended up in the lifeboat by accident.

During three hours of interrogation on Tuesday, he reportedly said: "The passengers were pouring onto the decks, taking the lifeboats by assault. I didn't even have a life jacket because I had given it to one of the passengers. I was trying to get people to get into the boats in an orderly fashion. Suddenly, since the ship was at a 60 to 70 degree angle, I tripped and I ended up in one of the boats. That's how I found myself there."

He said he got stuck in the lifeboat for an hour before it was lowered into the water off the coast of Giglio island.

Also with him was Dimitri Christidis, the Greek second in command of the Concordia and Silvia Coronica, the third officer, according to La Repubblica newspaper.


Maybe Captain Schettino does deserve the benefit of the doubt. I can hardly wait for the film version. Who was it who played Capt. Queg in the Caine Mutiny? Oh, now I remember, Brad David. Is he still around?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 02:05 PM

No, I just checked with Wikipedia and it was Humphrey Bogart who starred as Capt. Queeg. I guess Bogart is no longer available.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 02:30 PM

I'd cast Don Novello as the captain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:33 PM

Oh dear! Reporters are hot on the trail of the beautiful young woman that the captain was seen drinking with shortly before they both took off for the bridge: click here for story

I think I'll start a limerick thread above the line. If you share such bad taste, feel free to contribute.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:56 PM

Il gigilo di giglio


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:28 PM

I just googled "dinner with the captain"
The cruise companies seem to sell the idea as a "great maritime tradition" -they don't mention the great maritime tradition of the captain going down with the ship of course. Specially invited guests thrill to the thought of being invited to the captain's table .Some cruise lines have a lottery for who gets a seat .Kendall wrote that the captain is always responsible when the ship is at sea , but I wonder whether a captain's duty as a mariner and his role as the manager of a floating pleasure palace don't sometimes clash .

This is the sort of stuff you get :
"Our captain always enjoyed a cocktail or two before dinner. When he was fairly well fortified, he would appear at the table about 20 minutes after the rest had entered."
"The evening begins with cocktails, either in a reserved area of a public lounge or the Captain's quarters, where the Social Hostess greets you and makes introductions to the Captain and other high-ranking officers. After getting acquainted, you are escorted to the Captain's table and take your place according to pre-arranged seating."
"Then sit back and enjoy a sumptuous dinner with exquisite service and fine wines. A photographer will appear to preserve the memories and the picture will be delivered to you the next day, perhaps with a copy of the menu or a note of thanks."


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:36 PM

Is this where he got the inspiration for his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBPrQ9r52zQ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:41 PM

A report released on Wednesday by the judge, Valeria Montesarchio...


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:55 PM

Blue clicky didn't work first time for some reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 05:01 PM

The Captain should keep his mouth shut:

"I don't know why it happened. I was a victim of my instincts!"

You can't make up more incriminating lines that that one.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:02 PM

my baser instincts perhaps ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:47 PM

"There are many instincts," says the judge. "Could you be more specific?"

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 09:32 AM

The timeline for the captain's whereabouts is somewhat array. He has described how he tripped and fell into a lifeboat, along with his 1st and 2nd officers, some time after 10 pm, and spent an hour there trying to get the lifeboat down to the water.

Dominica Cermontan, the lovely young Moldovan staffer who shared dinner with the captain prior to the accident, has defended him quite strongly and has said that after the accident she was called to the bridge by the captain to communicate better with the Russian speaking passengers. However, her time-line describing the captain's presence on the bridge doesn't correlate with the Italian Coast Guard communications when he was reported in the lifeboat; she describes him being on the bridge around 11:50 pm when she says she left the bridge. The Coast Guard report him in his lifeboat at least an hour earlier. Cherchez le Captiane!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 10:41 AM

Here's another report on Dominica Cermontan who among her many skills is also reported to be a ballerina:

CHISINAU — A young mystery woman named as a key witness over the role of the captain in the crash of the Italian cruise ship Costa Concordia has strongly defended Francesco Schettino's actions, saying he saved thousands of lives.

Blonde ballerina Domnica Cemortan, who has dual Moldovan and Romanian citizenship, was reportedly on the bridge of the cruise ship when the 114,500 tonne ship ran into rocks six days ago.

But the 25-year-old said on Thursday she was dining with friends at the time of the disaster and denied that the captain was also having drinks on deck.

REUTERS/Stringer

Man overboard: Costa Concordia Captain Francesco Schettino is being blamed by his employer for risking the lives of more than 4,200 passengers and crew in a reckless display of bravado.

"[Capt. Schettino] is one of the best captains in the company. He is very skillful and experienced when it comes to manoeuvring the ship in enclosed spaces, like harbours," Ms. Cemortan told the Telegraph.

"The charges you hear about the captain today are absurd," Ms. Cemortan told AFP in the Moldovan capital Chisinau.

"The Costa Concordia captain is the best one in the company. He did everything right and saved people's lives. He is a hero. All the crew members worked in a professional manner and saved lives."

Italian media on Thursday reported that investigators wanted to interview Ms. Cemortan because she had said she was with Schettino when the Costa Concordia ran aground off the Tuscan coast on Friday, had also gone upstairs to the captain's deck.


Maybe the media and the Italian Coast Guard are being too hard on this captain.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 01:55 PM

Costa Cruise Line is part of the Carnival group, which has 49 percent of the worldwide cruise market. The Company has dual registry, UK and USA.
Holdings:
Aida Cruises, Germany
Carnival Cruise Lines, USA
Costa, Italy
Cunard, UK
Holland America Line, USA
Ibero, Spain
P & O Cruises, UK
P & O Cruises Australia
Princess Cruises, USA
Seabourn, USA

Carnival stock dropped ca. 16 percent . following the accident. On the USA market, the stock is trading at ca. $31, down from its high of ca. 47.50.

"Rescue" suspended again, salvage contracts being let.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 02:02 PM

He's responsible even if he's innocent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 02:22 PM

Yes, as has been said before, I think they could very well be selling newspapers. We just don't know at this point.

I think it will be interesting to read the timeline, especially the details regarding the times of grounding, assessment of damage, listing (including rate), call to abandon, etc.

I've been on the bridge of passenger/vehicle ferries many times and I was fascinated by the communication between the captain and crew. All business. The very first time, after leaving dock in an ice breaking class ferry in February, the first mate said to the captain that a crew member tending the bow visor said he could not set some of the dogs fully (no need to explain) and that he would do it upon far shore arrival. The captain said, "Set all dogs within thirty minutes. Report when done. Report to the bridge." He turned to us and said, "As soon as the dogs are set, please leave the bridge." Took about twenty minutes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 03:10 PM

Here's what I posted on the 'Limerick' thread... I do realise I'm repeating some of what has already been said, but I've only just read this thread...

It's a complete mystery to me how so much damning 'evidence' has been allowed to leak before any official enquiry has begun.

The transcript of the conversation between the captain and the coastguard reads more to me like two people who couldn't quite understand what the other was saying, for instance.

The speed at which the owners distanced themselves from the captain's actions is deplorable - as far as I can see they are claiming they knew nothing about the deviation from the 'planned route', yet the BBC have published graphics showing that it was the third such similar 'deviation' in recent trips...

Someone is telling lies, perhaps?

Surely the ship had sonar which would have warned of the danger? Or is that what the owners are trying to cover up?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 03:56 PM

Until an official report is issued, it is hard to establish any sort of time line, or determine actions taken on the bridge. Lots of talk from people who want their two minutes of exposure in the media, but nothing (as it should be) from those in the chain of command. Crew members who have talked were not in the chain of command (only a couple at the bottom end dealing with the lifeboats).

The Costa management wants to deflect suits, but immediately throwing blame onto the captain also seems wrong to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 04:30 PM

Q... "The Costa management wants to deflect suits, but immediately throwing blame onto the captain also seems wrong to me."

But, that "deflection" means nothing is a court of law. The passengers had a contract with Costa. Costa emplyed the captain. Costa is liable, no matter what. No?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 04:51 PM

Vicarious liability might not attach under English law for the Captain's negligence if the Captian was "on a frolic of his own". There is a difference between doing what one was not within one's function and doing badly what was.

Contract law differs again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 05:31 PM

I beg to differ. Costa is still liable. Costa employed the captain. Costa has a duty of care to it's passengers who paid for safe passage. Those passengers have a right to justice with Costa, no matter what happened... they were not saved harmless. Costa can sue the captain if he can be found negligent. But the passengers cannot sue the captain. They have no contract with the captain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 05:59 PM

The real issue, it seems, is that modern sonar is more dependant upon GPS and digital maps than what can actually be detected in real time. The extraordinary number of false positives it throws up results in a 'crying wolf' attitude amongst mariners.

Apparently the 'uncharted rocks' that gouged a hole in the ship could have been seen by a sailor's MKI eyeball had he taken the trouble to look over the side...

As for the Company's liabilities, the expression 'joint responsibility' springs to mind. I would expect the law of any country to be somewhat similar in that respect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 07:43 PM

Costa Crociere Liabilities.
-Not liable unless written notice received within 185 days,action must be filed within one year. Notice of claim must be delivered to carrier within 30 days after the passenger landed. [Further intertwined restrictions]
-All claims shall be instituted only in courts of Genoa, Italy. Italian law shall apply. The carrier, however, may invoke U. S laws
-Jury trial or pre-arbitration discovery is not permitted.
-All defenses, limitations and exemptions relating to the Carrier are fully extended and may be invoked by persons or entities acting on behalf of the Carrier.
-Liability for death or injury limited to $70,000.
-No liability for mental injury or suffering.
-Class action suits or procedures barred.
-Passenger waives right to arrest or detain vessel.

And a lot more.

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Support/contract/contract.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 07:47 PM

Who ran her aground? the passengers? the crew? the Captain? the company who hired him?
Step right up folks, plenty of brown sandwiches to go around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 10:44 AM

There is now posted a GPS plotting of the course of the Costa Concordia from the time of the initial collision to when she was run aground adjacent to Giglio Harbor: click her for GPS plotted Route

There is a video to click on for the GPS animation of "The Fatal Route" at the bottom of the page.

In summary the ship can be seen striking rocks off a prominent point, continuing on past Giglio Harbor and then circling clockwise so as to ground on ledges adjacent to the harbor lighthouse, a short distance from the inner harbor.

I'm still trying to put together a timeline from various reports.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 12:11 PM

In any case, the death toll is very saddening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 01:39 PM

This is only one reason that I would never take one of those cruises.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 01:48 PM

4000+ people traveling by car have a much higher rate of probable death than traveling together on a ship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Acorn4
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 01:56 PM

An unfortunate reminder of that Fiat advert:- "Driven by Italians!".


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 02:11 PM

A4... that was in very poor taste. I loved it.

Ebbie... I am Cappy in my truck. I have flown and sailed many miles for work. Had some very close calls. In one three week trip on the coast of Labrador, I was close to death in float planes and boats 5 times. Gave that up. I now drive my truck lower than the speed limit only in good driving conditions unless it's an emergency. Works for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 12 - 02:51 PM

"[Capt. Schettino] is one of the best captains in the company."

Well, that's confidence-inspiring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 22 Jan 12 - 06:47 AM

> The current plight of the Costa Concordia reminds me of a comment
> made by Churchill. After his retirement he was cruising the
> Mediterranean on an Italian cruise liner. Some Italian journalists
> asked why an ex British Prime Minister should chose an Italian ship.
>
> "There are three things I like about being on an Italian cruise ship"
> said Churchill:
>
> 1.First their cuisine is unsurpassed.
>
> 2.Second their service is superb.
>
> 3.And then, in time of emergency, there is none of this nonsense
> about women and children first.
>


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jan 12 - 08:29 AM

That was awful Kendall. Now I can't stop laughing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jan 12 - 12:01 PM

There's a new tape which just surfaced of a conversation between the Coast Guard and Capt. Schittano in which the captain vows that he will stay aboard the ship. At the time of that conversation the captain estimated that about 300 crew and passengers were still aboard.

Another update this morning confirms that a 12th body of a woman was discovered and recovered from a narrow underwater passageway by divers.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 12 - 04:19 PM

What I glean from all the reports is that the captain was very clever and capable in maneuvering the ship to the best possible place for rescue....AFTER discovering he had made a stupid mistake and hit the rocks.

   I doubt the families of the dead & missing will use 'hero' in their opinions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jan 12 - 04:58 PM

Bill-

I agree with both your points.

It's not clear who was on the bridge navigating the ship when it had it's initial collision.

Oh, Captain Schettino, where was thou?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Jan 12 - 02:32 PM

Sadly, there were two more bodies reported recovered today form the Costa Concordia:

Giglio, Italy (CNN) -- Two more bodies have been recovered from the wreck of the cruise ship Costa Concordia, Italian officials announced Monday, bringing the number of confirmed victims of the accident to 15.

The two women were found on Bridge 4, near the ship's Internet cafe, said Franco Gabrielli, the official in charge of the operation.

About 17 people remain missing after the ship collided with rocks January 13 off the coast of Tuscany, according to a CNN count.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jan 12 - 03:40 PM

The remaining 17, of course, must be presumed dead. Most will probably be found in their cabins, and some who jumped may have drowned and been swept out to sea.

I wonder how many relatives will succeed in collecting any of the $70,000 allowed for a death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jan 12 - 04:29 PM

I assume all of them and that they won't have to go to court. Dumb move if they don't pay up quick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 07:39 AM

I did hear on the News that it wasn't entirely clear whether their passenger lists were complete or accurate. Let's hope that this is in fact the case, and some of the 'missing' weren't even on board. But of course, if their relatives are still waitng to hear of them, it seems that at least some really are lost at sea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 08:00 AM

The suggestion was that some passengers were not on the manifest, so more could be missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 12:13 PM

He may not have done anything wrong by sailing so close to shore but that conversation between the cap' and the coasties was telling - it's too *dark* for him not to abandon ship ahead of the passengers? I mean, really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 02:38 PM

Curious, so I looked it up.
Comparison with Queen Elizabeth II, the largest Carnival ship, and their Holland America Nieuw Amsterdam-

QE II
Weight- 151,400 T
Length- 345m (1132 feet)
Passengers- 3056
Crew- 1253

Costa Concordia
Weight- 114,137 T
Length- 290.2m (952 feet)
Passengers- 3780
Crew- 1100

Nieuw Amsterdam
Weight- 86,700 T
Length- 285m (935 feet)
Passengers- 2104
Crew- 929


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Brian May
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 03:52 PM

I find it most irritating the instances when there is an incident and, quite reasonably we talk about it.

Fact, the ship was VERY close to the coastline.

Fact, the skipper was ashore before the last passengers.

The responsibility for the safe running of the ship rests with the captain - maritime law.

Since he is under house arrest, it is fair to assume the authorities have reason to believe that he did not carry that responsibility adequately.

The fact that nearly 20 people are dead and there is a bloody great big ship laying on its side 100 m from the shore with a bloody great big rock embedded in the SEAWARD side rather supports the authoritie's view.

So all the sanctimonious souls saying 'don't discuss it' ought to STFU. This is why we have this site . . . so we can.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 04:08 PM

Yes, I did catch some flack for initiating this thread, being admonished not to start "another witch hunt." Things have gotten better since then.

Most of the posters have had serious questions, or have shared some nautical insights. Almost everyone has expressed some relief that so many passengers and crew members survived, and sadness that a couple of dozen did not.

Capt. Schettino seems clearly at fault and is being dealt with appropriately by the Italian authorities. No doubt there are others who should share some of the blame but Schettino was in command.

I'd still like to see a more detailed timeline. What I've seen has huge gaps and doesn't correlate between sources.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 04:11 PM

I'm now also concerned about the pollution aspect. There are thousands of gallons of fuel aboard the vessel and they're planning to remove it by pumping it into large containers. Hope they can do it effectively without causing a great big oil slick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 04:54 PM

Brian the ship isn't lying where it was holed. The captain apparently used what little time he had available to head to shallower water in the hopes that the "bottom" she went to wouldn't be too far away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 04:55 PM

Removing the oil-
Dutch company, Smit, crew of 55.
Fuel in 13 double-bottomed tanks and 10 single bottomed tanks.
Actual pumping to begin Saturday.
Removal time 4 to 6 weeks (if the creek (er) sea don't rise ....).

Also oil stocks for lubrication and for generators.
Reports from SKY and Christian Science Monitor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 06:09 PM

Interesting read.

Under the Radar?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 06:51 PM

...and then there are the sewage holding tanks to be dealt with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 10:15 PM

Ed T-

I find the concluding statement of interest in your above link:

"The frightening thing is how quickly the ship went on its side. If that had been out to sea there would have been a massive loss of life," the marine insurance underwriter said. "It's very similar to the Titanic disaster. The Titanic hit an iceberg and opened up like a can of sardines ... They will look at the disaster and there may be some changes, presumably vessel design changes."

The speed with which the Costa Concordia filled with water and began to tilt certainly limited the options of what the captain could do after his ship had its initial collision.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 24 Jan 12 - 10:50 PM

Very good observation, Charlie. The current "cruise culture" is based upon the notion that modern ships fulfill the "unsinkable" myth that the Titanic (and the Andrea Doria) failed to live up to.

Concordia was, by any estimation, a "mega ship" and one that was supposed to be up to anything the sea (or sea-bottom) could throw at it.

Yet here we have it.

Her bottom ripped open, sunk, and passengers dead.

Worse than Titanic in the sense that her passengers were out for a lark, as opposed to having any "business" reason to be aboard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 08:19 AM

Here's a link to the latest update of this disaster, allegedly based on police monitoring of Capt. Schettino's cell phone: Click here for update!

Evidently the Italian police are quite willing to share what they harvest with the media before a trial.

In addition divers have recovered a 16th body from the ship and the Dutch salvage crew has begun work preparing to pump out the ship's fuel tanks; they hope to begin pumping on Saturday.

I still find it surprising that the Captain claims he was unaware of the rocks his ship collided with; he had navigated this passage several times before. They are plainly marked on even tourist maps of the Island of Giglio, maritime charts, and appear above the surface of the waves during the day. Of course it was night at the time of the collision but that's why such ships have instruments to detect underwater hazards.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 10:26 AM

Putting someone under 'house arrest' doesn't necessarily mean they believe he is guilty of anything. It is standard practice under such circumstances to avoid the possibility of any evidence being tampered with.

Would the Police leak sensitive information? Sounds odd to me.

As for the sewage tanks, I doubt that they would make that a high priority...!! Assuming they do have such tanks and don't already dump (!!) it straight into the sea...

I've heard it said they don't swim off the coast of Italy, they just go through the motions!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 11:27 AM

I wonder if this tragedy ia affecting bookings for cruises generally? I've seen several adverts on TV and in the newspaper for all types of cruise. Do you think people will avoid them now? I was sitting in a large jaccuzzi full of pensioners at the local gym, and a straw poll indicated that they were going ahead, on the basis that only 'that' company was poor and all the others (P&O etc) were wonderful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 12:05 PM

I wonder if this tragedy is affecting bookings for cruises generally?
For a long time I've thought the cruise sector was heading for trouble in a business sense. A new 4,000-passenger ship represents round about a 100,000 passengers per annum expansion of the cruise market, and the rate these ships are being built is probably expanding the market around 1m passengers a year. That's potentially a problem, and anything could burst the bubble, including a simple change of fashion, never mind an accident. When that happens, not only will the cruise lines themselves be affected, but many of the ports of call will get a big shock to their economy. Bergen in Norway, for example, has a population of 230,948 at the last count, but regularly has three or four cruise ships in dock, so may have 12-16,000 tourists. Losing those would be a a big hit, and Norway is hardly a poor country. Some of the small islands in the Carribean, for example, could be badly affected by the loss of tourists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 01:25 PM

Warning. I repeat, warning. VERY poor VERY PI VERY dark joke coming. Seriously, if you read it and then put the piss to me over it... I don't care. You have been warned.

"She had an inauspicious launch at Sestri Ponente on 2 September 2005, when the champagne bottle failed to break." Wiki.

Soooo... are the French being investigated?

Told yas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 01:41 PM

Yes, the ports of call will suffer if the whole thing grinds to a halt. Also, what will all the pensioners do instead? Turkey-and-Tinsel weekends don't hit the spot somehow!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 02:09 PM

Guest Eliza, the P&0 liners, Costa, Holland America, and others, are all owned by the same company, Carnival, as posted previously.
I don't know if different quidelines exist for the different lines operated by this giant cruise liner company. But hearsay about conduct of the lines is suspect, if they are all under the same umbrella corporation.

New tankers (the better ones, anyhow) are double-hulled. Should cruise liners be built with this safety specification? What do you think, Charley?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 02:21 PM

I don't reckon the old folk would realise it's all the same umbrella corporation. I would never go on a cruise, so I've not got a clue about the different lines etc. No matter how well-built and provided with all the latest technology, as we see, a ship relies ultimately on the Captain's attention to duty. The Titanic was whizzing along in the dark (on Captain's orders), much too fast to avoid a 'berg', in order to do the trip in record time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 03:16 PM

"New tankers (the better ones, anyhow) are double-hulled. Should cruise liners be built with this safety specification? "

Certainly! It's clear that whatever watertight bulkhead system the Costa Concordia had proved inadequate. She was reported in the media as speeding along at 15 knots when her side struck the reef as the ship was turning back out to the main channel. The Captain has acknowledged that he was "late" in making his turn.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 03:34 PM

Well... double hull... I mean, would that have really done any good? If you gash her for 50m of one hull or both, what good would the double hull do? Are tankers not double hulled to avoid the problem of sulfuric acid? If you run agound, you run aground. Three hulls ain't gonna save ya. Am I talkin out my... ?

I am keen on the time line. I am keen on the forensic engineering anaylses of the time line wrt bulkhead closures and WHO had (?) to be sacrificed or were sacrificed by automatic systems to save so many lives. We don't know WHO died why they were in a position to die. This investigation will be a LONG one. And, it's still all conjecture herein our insignificant thread at The Café.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 07:36 PM

Sorry for a bit of thread creep, but to be fair, it has been widely known that the iceberg didn't take out the Titanic after all - it was dodgy metallurgy. Had the correct grade of steel been used, the hull would probably have withstood the impact sustaining little or no damage.

The dodgy steel, coupled with freezing conditions, meant the hull was brittle - and the rivets were also faulty. The problem wasn't understood at the time, so blame isn't appropriate. However, it does explain why the Titanic sank so quickly - that and the inadequate bulkheads.

They discovered the same metallurgy problem with the earlier wartime 'Liberty Ships'...

As for the Costa Concordia... only time will tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jan 12 - 08:12 PM

gnu-

The Costa Concordia wasn't run aground until the port side assumed an alarming tilt after she grazed the reef. That was about an hour after the initial collision. A double bottom might have helped her survive long enough to limp into port.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 06:05 AM

I seemed to have developed a double bottom over the years!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Brian May
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 07:50 AM

Hmmm, 114500 tons moving at 15 knots, that's a colossal amount of inertia.

Twin skinned or not, it is almost certainly a 'very testing' configuration.

Anyone know what the double bottom config is 'supposed' to be able to withstand?

In terms of Gross Tonnage and speed especially, because I was under the impression that double skinning was more about containment of internal leaks rather than impact protection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 08:11 AM

Brian-

When it comes to this level of marine engineering, I'm beyond my depth.

Maybe such ships need to be fitted with rubber bumpers.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 08:24 AM

I'm beyond my depth.

Speaking of suitable imagery...


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 10:40 AM

""I was under the impression that double skinning was more about containment of internal leaks rather than impact protection.""

I believe double skinning was first introduced for bulk oil carriers, as an added safety measure to minimize spilled oil from collisions and other incidents. I believe this has expanded to include some other bulk carrier ships, where environmental issues are not as big a concern. The link below has some historic infomation.


Double skin

""Anyone know what the double bottom config is 'supposed' to be able to withstand?""

I suspect this question has a highly technical answer, and would depend on matters such as vessel design/construction and use, the material used, the type of stress/incident. Below is some very technical information, that I am unsure adds much, but will link anyway)

Some tech info

bulk carriers


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Brian May
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 11:26 AM

Thanks - fascinating.

One of the features that jumped out was that the double hulls were separated by over a metre! Can you imagine trying to 'sell' that idea to a cruise line company - that would mean that portholes would need to be through a tube over a yard long. A complete non-starter.

When you consider that we are able to buy GPS off the shelf which gives position, in real time, up to about 10 feet in accuracy - with a battery back up, there was no excuse for this vessel to be where it was. God only knows what a vessel of that displacement requires below the surface. Risk assessment is also predicated on not losing the vehicle (ship, aircraft or whatever) for a single failure. Frankly I don't believe it was caused by a power interrupt to the steering, the vessel couldn't get a licence to operate with no redundancy in-built.

They can only 'park' in the largest of harbours too. Personally, I think this disaster and the points it highlights (not least, the insurance claim to come) will find a radical re-think of this whole industry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 12:42 PM

I suspect extra fuel consumption, because of the added weight may be a major factor they would likely consider.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 12:45 PM

I suspect cruise ships still use the cheaper, but higher poluting, high sulphur, Bunker C oil. Here is an interesting site. Can't vouch for the accuracy, but it looks credible, from other figures I have seen.

cruise ships


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 01:00 PM

I checked out the use of fuel. I believe that low cost high-sulfur fuel (Bunker C) is still allowed in the Caribbean. But, Canada, California, Alaska, Hawaii, and some parts of the Mediterranean, require the ships burn cleaner marine diesel fuels, when in their coastal waters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 01:59 PM

The ship ran aground twice. My statement was regarding the first time.

"But, Canada, California, Alaska, Hawaii, and some parts of the Mediterranean, require the ships burn cleaner marine diesel fuels, when in their coastal waters."

It's good that they have changed. As of my last day at Marine Atlanic they were still using Bunker C and I was inside some of the shore tanks and they were a mess... you gotta get inside to do a proper inspection and the pitting was shocking. I also walked across the deck of a tanker and got a little freaked out that a 145 pound man walking in front of me could depress the deck in spots and make a "thung" sound. (That was the time I met Cap'n Redeye and his hairless cat Fluffy, who like gin as well.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 04:33 PM

Brian-

I don't think the "portholes" would be involved in the double bottom design, unless for some reason, which I can't begin to fathom, there were portholes in the bottom of the hull.

gnu-

I want to hear more about Cap's Redeye and his hairless cat Fluffy; maybe there's a song just waiting to be born.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 04:47 PM

Charley, THAT was an experience. 40 a Beefeater gin and a glass on the desk. Cat in his lap. It wasn't hairless... I make up those kinda jokes all the time. But there was a bowl with gin in it and the cat looked as good as he did. Never drink alone, eh? He had to pump for three hours, leave, return after the ferry cycled and pump again. He agreed and said, "Tell mate. He's in charge." Good thing. It was 70kph and raining. 70 can get nasty in that harbour due to funneling between the two sets of cliffs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 04:47 PM

A sixteenth victim, an elderly woman, has been recovered today from the Costa Concordia wreck.

Here's a link to a newly released set of 24 photos of the ship beginning when she first grounded off the lighthouse at Giglio Harbor: click here for PIXS

You can see the lifeboats being loaded and some of them being deployed. When she initially grounded the list was about 30 degrees; she later rolled all the way over onto her starboard side.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 06:56 PM

That bothers me, Charley. If all the bulkheads were sealed, why would that happen? Again, as I said earlier, without knowing the details of when and why bulkheads were or were not sealed (and the configuration of bulkheads) it's all conjecture at this point. And, yes, I know the intentional grounding may have caused further damage.

In any case, as Megan said so early in this thread, a witch hunt is just not right. My focus here is simply an interest in what happened after the initial contact. What's done is done re the initial contact and is of NO concern to me. It happened and I am sure the authorities will sort that out and learn from it. My interest is, again, the rest of the story.

And that is strictly from an engineering point of view although it's obvious that separating the human reaction component is almost impossible... but it can be learned from so the human component is essential to future safety. At this point, conjecture warning, it may seem the Cappy did well after the the initial collision in his decisions re attempting to mitigate the problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 07:46 PM

gnu-

I think I'm made the point several times above that the Captain's decision to ground the ship on the point by the lighthouse was probably his best option at the time for minimizing loss of life for passengers and crew. Some have argued that if the lifeboats had been ordered away earlier, it would have been easier to deploy them given that the ship wasn't listed as badly then. But I'm willing to await the judgment of the maritime investigation on that question.

I'm also interested in the technical details of what failed and what worked. And I still find it frustrating that no one has produced a reliable timeline. Was it an hour between the initial collision and the final grounding or two hours? That's a major difference.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jan 12 - 10:29 PM

Certainly so, Charley. Once again, ALL conjecture at this point.

The ONLY thing I think we can all agree on at this moment is the sadness over the lives lost.

Even tho I find this terrible accident disturbing because of the loss of life I find it compelling from a forensic engineering and human reaction point of view. I assume many others do as well becuase... deep down... we all want to see such accidents never happen again.

Me an armchair expert? Monday morning quarterback? Yeah, I suppose. I call it concern even tho my two cents is worth less than no cents in the end. I am NO expert. I wasn't there and if I was I woulda been at the life boats before anyone else... WTF was that noise? Where are the life boats? I woulda been walkin before I got the answer. Survival of the scaredest? I'd like to think not, but I wasn't there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 08:38 AM

Here's a link to a major story focused on the salvage options for the ship: Click here for report!

The search will continue for bodies while the salvage work is on-going.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 11:11 AM

Interesting how the media (at least Time in the link below) points a spin to Italy's slack attention to safety at this time (some of the examples uses are the same in most countries). As if that was the cause of the disaster? Typical of a frequent media approach in time of disaster.


Time



Common sense stuff


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Brian May
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 02:03 PM

Ah, Charley you're talking about the double bottom, I did a fair bit of reading (all your fault) and they were talking about double hulls which included the sides too, quite low down the hull (above the waterline of course)

I wasn't talking about taking the place of a glass-bottomed boat with an 114500 ton liner (honest).

Anyway, that's me out of here. What a tragedy and RIP to the dead and comfort to those affected at all levels.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 09:12 PM

Here's another link to a technical discussion raising questions of what happened after the initial collision: Click here for story

Experts are evidently confounded that the ship wouldn't have been designed to survive the initial collision. Were the water tight bulkheads secured when required? How many compartments were compromised by the impact?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jan 12 - 10:00 PM

From my understanding, big ships are constructed to survive collisions, even with a rock. But, because of their size (weight) and construction, they are poorly suited to survive groundings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 08:54 AM

Ed T-

The rocks embedded on the port side of the Concordia suggest that she "sideswiped" some rocks or ledge. This "contact" created a long gash which would compromise more than one watertight compartment; at this point we don't even know if the watertight doors were ever closed.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 09:29 AM

Charley Noble, Yes, I realize that.

My question is (and, we don't know the details), could a grounding potentially make a evacuation situation worse with a large passenger vessel(more rapid and greater capsizing, thus less access to the life boats, rather than better the situation?

If the water tight compoartments were not sealed, I suspect the captain did not know this, or he would have odered corrective action. One would suspect some significant effort to analyse the situation and consult with shore experts (if needed), if there was time, before a decision to come near shore (thus a risk to ground) was made. In airplane situations, we mostly see good communications with ground experts.

It seems odd that some type of automatic sealing of the compartments would not have been triggered in a relatively modern vessel?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 10:40 AM

"could a grounding potentially make a evacuation situation worse with a large passenger vessel"?

The short answer is "yes" but if the ship was already listing at an extreme angle she might have capsized in deep water. The question is whether it might have been better to have deployed the lifeboats while the list wasn't quite as extreme in deeper water. While in deep water Capt. Schettino decided that it was better to ground the ship on the point, and swung the ship around 180 degrees to do so.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 11:32 AM

"" if the ship was already listing at an extreme angle she might have capsized in deep water"".

Do we know that to be the case when the desision was made by someone to ground? While we can see the result, it seems just as likely that the trip near the coast could have just as easily had different results.

It seems very odd that a captain, who seems to have had time to assess and react, would not consult shore authorities/ship experts who may have presented other options. If he sought advice from his company, I suspect those people may be very nervious about the inquiry.

From passenger reports, the time frame and communication with passengers would lead one to believe that this was not a well-thought out (and coordinated) response by the captain or crew.

While, with ample information, it is wise not to demonize the captain. But, it is just as logical to credit him with heroic actions either, considering what is in the public domain at this point..


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 12:09 PM

Ed-

What seems well documented are the contacts between the Captain and the Italian Coast Guard after the initial collision in which he denies twice that there is a major problem, describing the incident as merely "an electrical blackout."

The next set of communications with the Coast Guard took place after the ship had been grounded on the lighthouse point adjacent to Giglio Harbor.

Other communications with the ship owners or anyone else have not, I believe, been disclosed.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 12:13 PM

Meanwhile back at the wreck site:

"On Saturday morning divers searching submerged parts of the wreck found the body of a woman, wearing the ship's uniform, on deck number six. No further details of her identity or nationality have been released."

That raises the number of confirmed dead to 17.

The weather has taken a turn for the worse and attempts by the salvage company to pump out the oil have been postponed.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 12:23 PM

This just in:

http://vimeo.com/35351659


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 01:07 PM

Kendall-

Thanks! That video link narrated by John Konrad, CEO gCaptain.com and USCG Licensed Master Mariner Unlimited, certainly is the best reconstruction of the path the Costa Concordia took before and after striking the rocky point: click here for video!

Evidently the main engines were not operational after the initial collision. However, the bow trusters were still operational which permitted the ship to later turn around clockwise and make its way to its final grounding. The sharp turn itself helps explain why the list shifted from the damaged port side to the starboard side, slosh, slosh!

I still can't make out the time-line between the initial collision and the final grounding. The initial collision was at 20:45:18 GMT. Anyone else have sharper yeyes?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 01:22 PM

Maneuvers


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 01:36 PM

Ed-

Same link, I believe.

I think the final estimated time from the video for the ship's ultimate grounding was 21:42:45 GMT. That's about an hour from the initial collision.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 01:46 PM

Very interesting, Kendall. Thanks.

Many of the points/topics/questions recently raised were posted earlier but have now just rasied a question in my mind... the level and width of the gash.

Also, re the animation... I assume the ship had stern thrusters as well on accounta ya can't hold a ship against the wind without at least two thrusters.

It all gives me the willies and minds me a layin in the bunk listening to the ice screech along hull and the walls and ceilings of my quarters shudder and rattle while the ship sometimes would pitch a bit or slow in speed. I was never scared but when I could even hear a drinking glass rattling in it's holder in the can with the door shut, well, I was, shall we say, at a heightened state of awareness. I cannot imagine how those people felt when they heard and felt the impact. Like I said, that really gives me the willies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 02:02 PM

I can only find sketchy specs. One engine (Engine: Wartsila, 12-cylinder).

Maybe I erred... perhaps the stern thuster was damaged or non-supplied and US as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 02:07 PM

Charley Noble
Sorry< it was the same link


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 02:33 PM

Channel 4 has documentary scheduled for later this week, promising a minute by minute account of the incident.

more here


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 04:17 PM

""She has six Wärtsilä diesel engine""


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 04:36 PM

There ya go, Ed. What I found was woefully inadequate. Ya can't have just one.

Got a link?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 04:57 PM

I stand corrected (error in last source)

I have two different sources, none official that there are six Wärtsilä diesel engines

The specs listed on Wikipedia show straight shafts & fixed pitch props. That data comes from: ^ RINA (2012). "Costa Concordia". Leonardo Info database. RINA Marine. Retrieved 2012-01-20.


Costa Concordia Career
Name: Costa Concordia Owner: Carnival Corporation & plc Operator: Costa Cruises Port of registry: Genoa, Italy Route: Western Mediterranean Ordered: 19 January 2004 Builder: Fincantieri Sestri Ponente, Italy Cost: €450 million (£372 million, US$570 million)[1] Yard number: 6122 Launched: 2 September 2005 Christened: 7 July 2006[2] Acquired: 30 June 2006 Maiden voyage: 14 July 2006 In service: July 2006 Out of service: 13 January 2012 Identification: Call sign: IBHD
IMO number: 9320544
MMSI no.: 247158500

Status: Capsized off Isola del Giglio, Italy Notes: [3][4] General characteristics [5] Class and type: Concordia class cruise ship Tonnage: 114,137 GT Length: LOA 290.20 m (952 ft 1 in)
LBP 247.4 m (811 ft 8 in) Beam: 35.50 m (116 ft 6 in) Draught: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in) Depth: 14.18 m (46 ft 6 in) Decks: 17 Installed power: 6 × Wärtsilä diesel engines, 75,600 kilowatts (101,400 hp) Propulsion: Diesel-electric; two shafts (2 × 21 MW)
Two fixed pitch propellers Speed: service: 21.5 knots (39.8 km/h; 24.7 mph)
maximum: 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph) Capacity: 3780 passengers Crew: 1,100 Notes: [6][7]
__________________
        



info


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 04:58 PM

Well, together we're beginning to puzzle this out.

"Channel 4" where???

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 05:02 PM

Her sister ship has six of the same engines, so I expect six is accurate:Costa Serena


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 05:04 PM

Gnu

Link to the source:

Costa Concordia


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 07:38 PM

Thanks, Ed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 08:55 PM

I've recently seen a video floating around that shows the Italian Coast Guard diving in and around the rock that the Costa Concordia sideswiped. There was some curling metal there as well as some other metal structures. Unfortunately there was no narration of text. I'll see if I can find it again under "Costa Concordia Updates."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 09:02 PM

Found it again. It's called "Shipwrecks Log" and it's the first of three videos: click here for video!

I suppose this could be a completely unrelated video but it's described as relating to the Costa Concordia.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 07:53 PM

Here's the most useful update I could find today: Click here for update!

Experts have said it would take 28 days to remove fuel from 15 tanks accounting for more than 80 per cent of all fuel on board the ship. The next job would be to target the engine room, which contains nearly 350 cubic metres of diesel, fuel and other lubricants, Mr Gabrielli said.
Only once the fuel is removed can work begin on removing the ship, either floating it in one piece or cutting it up and towing it away as a wreck. Costa has begun the process for taking bids for the recovery operation, a process that will take two months.


The oil removal operation is further postponed because of bad weather.

The estimate for how long it might take to remove the ship from its current site is 7-10 months.

Of the bodies recovered from in and around the wreck, only one male body remains unidentified. There is speculation that he might not have been on the crew or passenger lists.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 08:09 PM

The port side damage was the problem, right? So, it's accessible, innit? The damage to the other side shouldn't be too bad although that is conjecture. If so, I don't understand why repairs to the port side would take that long so she can be pumped out and floated. IF SO. So MANY ifs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 07:32 AM

Here's one of the best interviews I've found with rescue workers, the deputy mayor of Giglio Mario Pellegrini who took one of the first lifeboats that made it into the harbor back to the ship and spent 5 hours helping coordinate further rescues: click here for story

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Feb 12 - 11:40 AM

Here's the only worthwhile update I've been able to harvest, the story of the last person rescued, the ship's purser: click here for story

"Manrico Giampedroni, the ship's purser, waited 36 hours before being rescued from the belly of the ship. He has been released from hospital in Grosseto, Italy, where he was treated for injuries."

Lucky man!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 07:19 AM

Speaking of 'grounding' rather than 'holing', I'm reminded of the Herald of Free Enterprise', the ferry on which someone didn't close the bow doors before it set off. It filled with water on the vehicle deck and tipped over in shallow water. Many lives were lost, but the ship wasn't even submerged. I know nothing about marine design, but these passenger vessels look top heavy and unstable to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:22 PM

Costa Concordia HO !

Won't be long before "salvagers" come to strip the ship of valuables, which include some 6000 works of art belonging to the ship, stocks of champagne and wine, and the jewelry, etc., left behind by passengers.
Even the mafia has divers.

The company legally owns the ship and passengers own their effects, so treasure seekers would be breaking the law but laws have never deterred them.

Associated Press- Feb. 2, 2012, Vanessa Gera.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:37 PM

Q-

Cheery news, indeed.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:50 PM

Eliza... bow doors... exactly the point of my earlier post geragding the bow visor dogs not being fully set before we entered the ice. In the case of the Harold... well, no need to think anymore about that tragedy... terrible! Just tearful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:57 PM

Gosh! I just read that the two ferries I sailed on many times were sold and scrapped in India.

Brought a tear to me eyes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 08:23 PM

gnu-

Sad when our old ships are towed off to Deadman's Bay.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 10:20 AM

Well, here's an update on what was found by divers in the captain's cabin:

Divers found the clothing, as well as a beauty case, when they searched the private cabin of Capt Francisco Schettino, 52, who faces charges of abandoning ship and manslaughter, according to La Repubblica newspaper.

The items are believed to belong to Miss Cemortan, a 25-year-old former cruise ship dancer and tourist rep who had dinner with the captain on the evening that he accidentally steered the 950ft long luxury liner into rocks off the Tuscan island of Giglio.

Miss Cemortan reportedly told prosecutors in Grosseto, Tuscany, this week that she was "in love" with Capt Schettino, who is married with a teenage daughter.

She was interviewed for nearly six hours on Wednesday by prosecutors in a police station in Grosseto, Tuscany, amid reports that divers had found some of her belongings in Capt Francesco Schettino's cabin.

According to Italian press reports, based on interviews with prosecutors, she said she had fallen deeply for the skipper – despite him having a wife and a teenage daughter.


The link to this Telegraph story no longer seems to work.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 10:28 AM

Does Italy have a "Receiver of Wreck" I wonder?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 11:25 AM

Link to Telegraph story


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 02:36 PM

He was gettin his rocks off when the ship struck a rock... oh Lord what a shock... he nearly tumbled over... turned nine times around... and fell into a lifeboat...

Oh, there's a song in there... not a very good one, mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 05:42 PM

gnu-

Now don't be jumping to any conclusions, as have the prosecutors, and the media.

But I would like to see a few verses.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 08:34 PM

'Twas Friday night when we set sail,
And we sank to the bottom of the sea!

Maybe we could base this ballad on the one about the Vasa

Charley Noble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 08:34 PM

Holy crap! I just watched the first ten minutes of The Fifth Estate on CBC. Unreal. This guy is gonna fry and so may Costa. Emails he sent to another captain about how he was gonna show up the other captain by sailing FAR closer to shore? Just unreal.

I dare say the insurance waivers will be challenged. Gross negligence surely outweighs a waiver of limitation of compensation in case of "accident", no? This was not an accident. It was caused by negligence and or incompetence. According to what just I saw on the TV and have thought all along.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 09:02 PM

A good documentary Gnu. It was just over, and will likely be online soon.

CBC Fifth Estate


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 09:32 AM

gnu and Ed-

The summary from the CBC Fifth Estate link certainly correlates with what we've been able to harvest on this thread.

This was not an accident but a irresponsible blunder by the captain. The only saving grace is that the consequences could have been worse.

So there's the captain on the bridge in the late evening with his girlfriend, chatting on his cellphone, with the ship tearing along at 15 knots, and he fails to make his turn in time to clear the well-known rocks off the coast of Giglio. Shit!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 09:37 AM

Channel 4 : Terror at Sea : The sinking of the Costa Concordia


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 10:20 AM

Here's another snippet update about the captain's thinking that night on the bridge:

An email was found that was sent by Schettino that promised to get closer to the shore than previous captains were able to do. A "contest" had formed to see who could sound the horn of the ship while closest to land. This was done to impress the tourist who were on the island.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 10:23 AM

Peter-

Evidently some of us cannot view this Channel 4 video without signing up. Do you have a summary?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 01:33 PM

Charley... if you can eventually access the CBC show you will be shocked. The accepted allowable distance to shore is FAR beyond where the ship struck the rock. Further than where the other Cappy had been as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 02:07 PM

According to Franco Gabrielli, head of the [Italian] Civil Protection Authority, contracts will be let in March to refloat the Concordia, and remove it as a whole.
"By that time [est. end of March] it is hoped that a Dutch company, Smit, will have been able to extract the 500,000 gallons of diesel and heavy oil in the liner's fuel tanks.
"The salvage operation is expected to take up to 10 months, meaning that the ship will spend at least a year wedged on rocks in clear sight of Giglio's main port and settlement."

Another report says a thin film of oil is spreading from the wreck's location.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk, Nick Squires, 03 Feb 2012, "Costa Concordia 'will be refloated and removed whole'."

I have not seen a report on the progress of the oil removal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 02:54 PM

Charley... the CBC vid is only available in Canada.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 05:45 PM

Huff


From the Huffington Post


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 05:46 PM

Charley... Fron the CBC program... she was supposed to be 5 miles out but she was 0.5 miles out, under visual control and the captain turned off the alarms which would signal they were too close to rocks that could damage the ship.

The Captain and crew did not warn the passengers... they were told everything was okay but MANY passengers actually went to the lifeboats and got in them. Within minutes, the captain was informed that the engines were gone, the lights were out... it goes on... unreal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 05:50 PM

Fifth Estate


Part of the program that seems to be worldwide?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 07:17 PM

I can't seem to get the Fifth Estate video to work; maybe I'm too impatient. However, I've copied their time-line, which I'll reprocess and post later. I'm surprised they don't show a version of this in the States.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Feb 12 - 08:21 PM

Timeline-The Fifth Estate (my remarks in parentheses)
2/3/12

MONDAY, JANUARY 9

Angelo and Danielle Pezzino of Verona, New Jersey, and Andrea and Laurence Davis of Calgary, board the Costa Concordia in Barcelona.

FRIDAY, JANUARY 13

5:45 p.m. Alan and Laurie Willits of Wingham, Ontario, board the ship in Civitavecchia, a major seaport about 80 km northwest of Rome.

7:45 p.m. Angelo and Danielle Pezzino reach the 11th deck Club Concordia restaurant for an 8 p.m. reservation.

8:30 p.m. The Pezzinos the ship Captain Francesco Schettino and his blonde dinner date enter the restaurant and take a window seat.

9:05 p.m. Captain Schettino is seen leaving the Concordia Club with Domnica Cemortan (doesn't correlate with 9:30), an off-duty ship hostess and translator, and another officer. A witness says the group had consumed at least a decanter of red wine, although Schettino says he drank no alcohol that night.

9:08 p.m. Francesca Tievoli, whose brother Antonelli Tievoli is the ship's chief steward, posts on Facebook: "In a little while the Costa Concordia will sail so close so close ..."

9:30 p.m. Angelo Pezzino sees an officer walk over to Captain Schettino's table and whisper something to him. A few minutes later the officer, the captain, and his dinner date leave the restaurant.

Approximately 9:40 p.m. Captain Schettino allegedly calls Tievoli to the bridge saying: "Antonello, come see, we are very close to your Giglio." Witnesses claim Tievoli, standing on the bridge, tells Schettino: "Careful, we are extremely close to the shore."

9:42 p.m. Captain Schettino is at the helm of the Concordia when he steers the ship into rocks off the island of Giglio while trying to perform an "inchino" or sail-past salute for a former Costa Cruises captain and chief steward Tievoli.

Domnica Cemortan is also on the bridge when the accident happens.

Alan and Laurie Willits, who are watching a magic show in the theatre, are forced out of their seats when the ship suddenly tilts toward the port side. The lights go out and people start leaving the theatre.

9:45 p.m. The ship is listing by seven degrees and some passengers begin to realize that something is wrong and phone relatives. One passenger calls his parents in Tuscany, who call the local Carabinieri, who then call the coastguard in Livorno on the Tuscan coast.

10:05 p.m. Captain Schettino calls his employers, Costa Crociere, to report a problem with the ship.

10:06 p.m. Police in Prato contact the Harbour Master's office in Livorno. They say a woman has called to say her mother is on the Corcordia, that the dining room ceiling has fallen on her and that the crew has ordered passengers to put on life jackets.

10:14 p.m. The Harbour Master contacts the Concordia asking if she is having problems. An officer replies that it's only a blackout which has been going on for 20 minutes and which they will fix shortly. The Harbour Master asks about passengers putting on life jackets, but the officer insists it's only a power outage.

10:16 p.m. Guardia di Finanza (finance police) patrol boat G104 is close to the island of Giglio and asks if it should check the Concordia.

10:17 p.m. The Harbour Master informs superiors there may be more wrong with the Concordia than the ship's officer is letting on.

10:26 p.m. Forty-four minutes after the Concordia's collision, the Harbour Master contacts Captain Schettino. Schettino says the ship is taking on water through an opening on its left side and the ship is listing. He says there are no dead or injured. The Harbour Master asks if he needs help. Schettino requests a tug boat.

10:30 p.m. The ship is listing by 20 degrees.

Mario Pellegrini, deputy mayor of Giglio, arrives at the port after receiving a phone call from the police telling him there was a ship sinking there. He decides to board the ship to help with the rescue effort.

10:34 p.m. Fifty-two minutes after the collision (doesn't correlate with 10:58), the Harbour Master contacts the Concordia, which sends a "distress" message. They are now evacuating the 3,208 passengers and 1,023 crew members from the ship.

10:39 p.m. A Guardia di Finanza patrol boat reports the ship is leaning heavily to one side.

10:44 p.m. One hour after the collision, the Guardia di Finanza reports the Concordia is grounded.

10:45 p.m. Captain Schettino denies the ship is grounded, saying it is floating and that he will try to bring her around.

10:48 p.m. The Harbour Master asks the Concordia to consider abandoning ship. Answer: 'we are considering it'.

10:58 p.m. Twenty minutes after issuing a "Mayday" signal and one hour and 16 minutes after the collision, Captain Schettino tells the Harbour Master he has given the order to abandon ship.

Shortly after 11 p.m. Deputy Mayor Pellegrini climbs aboard the ship using a rope ladder and finds pandemonium as passengers and crew rush the lifeboats.

11:23 p.m. The Concordia reports it has a large tear on its right side.

11:37 p.m. Captain Schettino says there are still 300 people on board.

Approximately 11:58 p.m. Witnesses see Captain Schettino wrapped in a blanket getting on a lifeboat.

SATURDAY, JANUARY 14

00:10 a.m. Local authorities say there is not enough room for all evacuees on Giglio and that they will begin to transfer them to the mainland.

One hour and 12 minutes after the evacuation order, Laurence and Andrea Davis cannot get into a lifeboat and decide to jump in the water and swim to shore. Laurence's wristwatch stops when it gets wet.

00:12 a.m. The Guardia di Finanza report that lifeboats can't be launched on the left side of the ship.

00:34 a.m. Captain Schettino says he is in a lifeboat and can see three people in the water.

00:36 a.m. The Guardia di Finanza can still see 70 to 80 people on board including children and the elderly.

Approximately 00:30 a.m. Angelo and Danielle Pezzino reach shore.

00:38 a.m. A rescue crew in a helicopter sees many people on board and some in the water.

00:42 a.m. Captain Schettino and all his officers are in a lifeboat. Captain De Falco, who is in charge of the Harbour Master's office, orders them to get back on board to coordinate the evacuation.

00:50 a.m. The Harbour Master's office takes control of the rescue operation.

1.04 a.m. A helicopter lowers an air force officer on board who reports 100 people are still waiting to be rescued.

1:45 a.m. An officer confirms that a rope ladder strung across the hull is safe to use.

1:46 a.m. For a second time Captain De Falco orders Captain Schettino to get back on board using the rope ladder.

2:00 a.m. Laurence and Andrea Davis reach the local Giglio island school which is being used as the rescue shelter.

2:29 a.m. Three people are reported hanging from the prow of the ship.

2:53 a.m. A Guardia di Finanza officer boards the ship using a rope ladder and says that Captain Schettino has been seen heading towards port in a lifeboat.

3:17 a.m. Carabinieri identify Captain Schettino on the quay at the port on Isola Del Giglio without detaining him.

3:44 a.m. An air force officer on board reports there are 40 to 50 people left to evacuate from the ship.

4:22 a.m. The number of passengers remaining on board falls to 30.

4:46 a.m. Six hours after the collision, the ship's evacuation is complete.

5:00 a.m. Captain Schettino calls his 80-year-old mother Rosa, telling her: "Mamma, there's been a tragedy. But don't worry; I tried to save the passengers. I won't be able to phone you for a while. Just stay calm."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 09:10 AM

I've been wondering why the engines failed after the initial collision. Some insight is provided from The Old Salt's Blog:

"The ship blacked-out after the grounding. Was this cause or effect? The Costa Concordia is a diesel-electric powered ship which means that a loss of the electrical system also means a loss of engines and steering. This could have caused the ship to go off course and hit the rocks. Earlier this year, Cunard's Queen Mary 2, also a diesel electric ship, suffered a black-out due to a failure in the capacitors in the harmonic filters. Thus far, however, we have heard no such reports from the Costa Concordia. The black-out could have been the result of the grounding rather than contributing to it. Pending a further investigation, no one knows."

Clearly at some point back-up generators kicked in, enough to power the ship's bow thrusters and enable her to swing full around and then drift into shore and become hard aground, while repowering the lights.

Charley Noble

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 02:43 PM

That Old Salt clearly muddies the waters in that statement. That is, it makes no sense to me. No sense in picking it apart, tho.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 07:49 PM

gnu-

Could you elaborate or is it all too speculative? We know that the ship after the initial collision had a blackout for some period of time and that there was an associated loss of engine power.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 08:02 PM

Charley... you just answered your own question, MAYBE. He said, "The Costa Concordia is a diesel-electric powered ship which means that a loss of the electrical system also means a loss of engines and steering. This could have caused the ship to go off course and hit the rocks."

Does that make any sense to you? There has never been any report of a power failure prior to the ship hitting the rocks... was there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 08:28 PM

DescriptionCosta Concordia is 290.20 metres (952 ft 1 in) long, with a beam of 35.50 metres (116 ft 6 in) and a draught of 8.20 metres (26 ft 11 in). She is equipped with a diesel-electric propulsion with six 12-cylinder Wärtsilä 12V46C[14] four-stroke medium-speed diesel generating sets with a combined output of 75,600 kilowatts (101,400 hp) and two 21 MW electric motors connected to fixed-pitch propellers.[15] Her service speed is 19.6 knots (36.3 km/h; 22.6 mph),[9] but during sea trials she could achieve a speed of 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph).

(WIKI Updated their info.)

Other info, not sure if was linked before:Loss of Electrical Power


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 08:45 PM

common design fault ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 09:37 PM

Oh my. Could there have been a power failure BEFORE hitting the rocks? Why has this never surfaced before?

Smoke and mirrors. If she had been 5 miles off where she should have been none of this would have happened. Power failure or otherwise.

Sorry... I am NO expert or even an avid buff in these matters. Just a guy who worked with similar ships and finds this story compelling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Feb 12 - 10:28 PM

gnu-

Nothing wrong with working on this puzzle. I haven't the engineering skills to figure out what was mechanically happened aboard this ship but I do keep track of other clues.

Evidently Capt. Schettino didn't want to be distracted by any alarms while he was doing his closest encounter with Giglio; he turned off all the automatic warning systems and was navigating by sight alone. Judging distance at night is always more challenging, especially when you're talking to your old mentor on your cell phone at the time. There ought to be a law against a captain using a cell phone while at the helm, during the night, of a major luxury liner.

Sure hate to be judgmental but even Schettino has been quoted as saying he does not expect to ever command a ship again. I wonder if the Moldovan dancer Domnica Cemortan, who shared his cabin, will still stick with him if he's shipless?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 08:20 AM

Oh, and here's an update on the Molovan dancer headlined "Mystery over Captain's lover deepens": Click here for story!

Oh, damn, the link has grown stale. Here's the juicy bits:

Domnica Cemortan, 25, reportedly told investigators last week that she was "in love" with Capt Francesco Schettino, as it emerged that search and rescue divers had found her lingerie, clothing and make-up bag in his cabin.

But in an interview with Italian television, her aunt insisted that there was no romantic relationship between the two.

"Was my niece Schettino's lover? I really think not. A lot of things in this whole business have been misinterpreted," said Lucica Cemortan Gurina.
"Show me a passenger who took a photo of the two of them caressing, embracing or kissing. I don't believe there is one."

She said her niece certainly "admired" Capt Schettino, whom she met when she worked on the Costa Concordia as a crew member.

"Maybe Domnica saw something in him that she wasn't able to find in others, namely friendship."

Mrs Gurina said her niece had been badly affected by the death of her father, who drowned in 1996.

Ms Cemortan was interviewed for nearly six hours last week by prosecutors in a police station in Grosseto, Tuscany, where the investigation into the January 13 accident is based.


You can't write fiction this bad and get it published!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 08:45 AM

Here is a report of Costa Europa hitting a quay in Egypt.
3 crew died.



Among the passengers on board the Costa Europa in 2010 when the accident occurred were Chris and Ron Cleal from Guernsey.

They immediately ran onto the deck where they were met by crew soaked to the waist.

"They were speaking about it being similar to the Titanic - opening bulkhead doors and being hit by a six foot wall of water," Mr Cleal recalls.

The ship had begun to list after hitting the quay and Mr Cleal says when he asked one of the crew whether he should get his life jacket, he was told not to, and that the incident was an exercise.

The Cleals say it took an hour for the captain to inform passengers of what had happened.

During this period Mrs Cleal said she was "absolutely petrified - the crew were all coming up absolutely soaking wet".

"It was obvious that there was a big problem down below," she told the BBC.

It took five hours for the Cleals to be taken off the vessel. During that time they say the only crew they saw were entertainment personnel.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16823955


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 03:59 PM

gnu-

There is the question you raised above of whether there was a blackout before the ship had its initial collision. According to some reports I've read, the Captain tried to convince an official at Costa headquarters that a prior blackout would be a better cover story but that official has been quoted as "having refused to do that."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 04:55 PM

Charley.... "There is the question you raised above of whether there was a blackout before the ship had its initial collision."

Not me. It was in the previous post that made no sense to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 05:41 PM

""Could there have been a power failure BEFORE hitting the rocks?""

I believe the question is" why did all the power go out (not why did the ship have a crippling gash in it's side) and why was there no back up power available, as most ships have back up power for basic processes, like steering, at a minimum". A screw up in the electronics seems like one possibility, if similarly constructed ships experienced a similar electrical failure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Feb 12 - 09:09 PM

Ed-

Good question but I suppose it's still too soon to get a definitive answer.

The power certainly went out almost immediately after the initial collision. One engine room was reported flooded by the gash but there's supposed to be a second engine room on this type of boat. They did manage to power the bow thrusters, after the ship had glided to almost a complete stop, to enable the ship to turn around 180 degrees and then drift into shore for grounding. And there certainly was lighting visible along the side of the listing ship when she ultimately ground.

I'm thinking that I recall several major cruise liners which suffered total engine loss after relatively small fires. Whatever happened to back-up systems on these boats?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 10:19 AM

This is a nice clip of what the Coast Guard officer said to the Captain when he realized he had already abandoned ship, leaving some 300 passengers and crew still aboard (Wikipedia):

The Corriere Fiorentino subsequently released audio recordings of radio calls in the Italian language from Coast Guard Captain Gregorio Maria De Falco repeatedly ordering Schettino to return to the ship from his lifeboat and assist in the ongoing passenger evacuation. At one point, Di Falco screamed at Schettino, "Vada a bordo, cazzo!"[p 4] (translated as "Get the fuck back on board!" or "Get back on board, for fuck's sake!").

T-shirts emblazoned with the phrase "Vada a bordo, cazzo!" are now a best-selling item in Italian stores and on the internet.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 03:56 PM

Not an official source, and we do not know the details of the Costa Concordia. But, basic information on requirements for a ships emergency back-up power for vital services (such as steering).

Emergency power requirements


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 04:45 PM

Generally speaking, most ships have a battery backup which energizes only crtical components until the generators come on. For about 25 to 30 years, automatic transfer switchgear equip have been able to bring generators online within 11 seconds (standard spec). The batteries are, more or less, seamless for critical systems like lighting (lighting on the bridge is minimal... almost dark as the displays provide enough light for crew movement and make the displays sharper) and nav on the bridge, computers, comm, whatever. Very little emergency lighting in the rest of the ship is powered by the batteries... mostly exit lights and very little "guide" lighting.

As for a requirement for a second engine, have you got a link for that? The only specs I have found, as I posted earlier, say : "Engine: Wartsila, 12-cylinder" There is no plural. ONE engine as far as I can search on the net. I have been in engine rooms on twin prop ice breaker class ferries and both engines were in the same room.

It's gonna be a long while before the story is told.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 04:53 PM

Ed-

Thanks for posting that information about back-up electrical generators. Good idea that such generators are located above the waterline.

gnu-

Well, it's evident from photos that the on-deck lighting was fully powered after the ship had grounded on the harbour point. And since the bow thrusters were needed to turn the ship around 180 degrees, they most have been powered as well. Don't know if the pumps were powered.

Sounds like the engine room was flooded almost immediately after the initial impact.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 04:59 PM

Yes, the thrusters are powered by electric motors. These are fed from the electrical power generated by the engine(s) under normal circumstances. The fact that they can be switched to emergency generators is an added safety bonus even when there are two engines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 05:11 PM

Wikki has updated information that says:
""Costa Concordia is 290.20 metres (952 ft 1 in) long, with a beam of 35.50 metres (116 ft 6 in) and a draught of 8.20 metres (26 ft 11 in). She is equipped with a diesel-electric propulsion with six 12-cylinder Wärtsilä 12V46C[14] four-stroke medium-speed diesel generating sets with a combined output of 75,600 kilowatts (101,400 hp) and two 21 MW electric motors connected to fixed-pitch propellers.[15] Her service speed is 19.6 knots (36.3 km/h; 22.6 mph),[9] but during sea trials she could achieve a speed of 23 knots (43 km/h; 26 mph)"".

Costa Concordia

I asked a navy engineer about what type of power would be needed to operate a rudderless electronic prop steering system,that I understand most cruise ships have. He said "alot of power"
That's why I suspect (though cant seem to confirm) that a back-up generator, to give more power, may have been built into the upper decks. If power was not available for steering, oit would likely mean the delivery system to the props were down, and possibly damaged.

However, I recall the comments of a retired cruise ship captain on the CBC Fifth Estate. He said that cruise ship owners only install the safety equipment that they are required to install. He said something like" if they did not have to put in lifeboats, and had a choice to replace them with balconies that would bring in more money, they would likely do it"


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 06:59 PM

Thanks Ed T. Six diesel engines supplying electric power to the electric engines to supply the props makes far more sense. That SEEMS to indicate one engine room. And, ergo, perhaps why they were rudderless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 04:18 PM

"...and a draught of 8.20 metres..."

On which side?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 05:08 PM

Cruel joke, bud. But, I admire your courage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 10:40 AM

Back to documenting what happened aboard the Concordia. A new TG5 video has just been released that's worth watching: Click here for video!

I'm not sure how long the link will work so here's a summary:

The footage, from the bridge of the ship, shows the captain to be supremely relaxed as the disaster unfolds.

At least 17 people died in the incident and 15 are missing. An American lawyer, John Arthur Eaves, is filing for compensation for the victims and suggested that families of those who died should sue Carnival Cruises for between $1 million and $3 million.
And lawyers will certainly be carefully studying the video, broadcast by Italian network TG5, which shows confusion among the captain and crew on the ship's bridge in the hour after Concordia rammed a reef.

A 50-meter hole was gouged out of the giant liner after it struck a rock close to the island of Giglio at 9.42 pm on 13 January.

At first the crew seem to be calm. But after half an hour, with the ship tilting at a 20-degree angle, panic breaks out among senior crew members.

At 10.25pm a man identified in the video as Captain Francesco Schettino is seen talking on the phone while senior officers struggle to understand what is happening, with at least one shouting out: "What do we do?"

One official is heard saying: "Passengers are getting into the life boats."

A man believed to be Capt Schettino then replies: "Vabbuo", which means "Whatever".

Francesco Verusio, the magistrate leading the investigation into the disaster, told The Independent: "This is new to us – I've just seen it for the first time. We've heard everything that was happening on the bridge."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 09:28 AM

The source of the above video is somewhat mysterious; no credit is provided. It certainly looks and sounds real. I don't think it was taken by a crew member or guest since there is little movement. Most likely the newspaper managed to get access to a bridge webcam video from a semi-official source.

It's really amazing to view, and especially eery with the emergency bridge lighting. But I wish it hadn't been edited down to five minutes. I suppose at some point we'll get to view the entire video with transcript.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 09:35 AM

No, it's not a webcam after all. The camera does pan and zoom as if it is being hand-held.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 06:52 PM

Costa Concordia fuel removal operation begins


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 08:15 PM

Bernard-

Thanks for posting that update. If all goes well, it will be at least a month before they pump her dry. But at least they're able to begin.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 08:34 AM

Then we'll see if they are brave enough to go ahead with the plan to parbuckle her upright...!

Relatively straightforward with something smaller, maybe - but that thing's enormous! Unless they are gambling on the precarious perch to work to their advantage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 10:27 AM

Interesting site, with some different approaches to lift sunken and capsized ships.

Sunken and capsized ships

Salvage Engineers's Handbook


General Hydrostatics


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:49 PM

The engineering behind salvaging such a ship is indeed fascinating.

I still want to see the full video shot on the bridge; I've only seen a 4-5 minute clip. I wonder who shot it.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 01:51 PM

If Costa finds out who shot the vid, there might be another shooting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:01 PM

Gnu-

It may have been his girlfriend.

Evidently more video will be released today. Here's a summary of what I've just harvested about the video:

Italy's TG5 News Service has uncovered video from the deck of the Costa Concordia immediately following the ship's running aground off the coast of Giglio, Italy. They have released approximagely half of the 9-minute video, which shows Captain Francesco Schettino relaxed as the crew struggles to analyze the problem.

Britain's Telegraph has taken the footage and closed captioned it. On it, you see the bridge illuminated by only the emergency lights after the power on the ship had failed.

According to the Telegraph's translation, a voice is heard to say,"Here everything is going to hell.. There is a hole, I believe...so water is coming in."

A man believed to be Captain Francesco Schettino then replies: "I've spoken to the control room and they say with two compartments flooded we should survive, there is no problem."

He continues: "Let's wait a bit more, so we make leeway toward more shallow waters. Then we can drop the anchor...at worst we can sit on the seabed. We shall see."

It is several minutes more before the abandon ship order is given, and this after ship's officers are heard urging the captain to give the order, saying that "passengers are getting on lifeboats spontaneously".

The abandon ship order is given at 10:32 PM, and lifeboats aren't lowered until nearly 25 minutes later.

TG5 has not said who shot the video, although an Italian Daily is speculating that it might have been Moldovan dancer Domnica Cemortan, who has been linked to Captain Schettino.
They also said they'll release the second part of the video today.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 02:09 PM

She's screwing him? Again? >;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 05:40 PM

gnu-

Actually I think Schettinno did a great job of screwing himself.

Domnica Cemortan is merely an accessory, who may also have had a video camera while she was on the bridge and the smarts to make some money.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 05:57 PM

Here's a link to the rest of the TG5 video, in Italian, but it does provide some stunning images of the efforts to launch the lifeboats: click here for video!

Initially some of the crew-members are joking around. Then things get serious as the ship continues to list.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 09:36 PM

I'd like to make a suggestion for the furure design of life boats... could we get some scenic deck seating for emergencies so people don't have to jump into the water and swim in such situations? Gee whiz... it ain't rocket science. Seriously... what about a tow rope with clip on hooks? Why don't the safety engineers explore ALL the possibilities? They may not work in all seas but the options should be there, no?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 12 - 10:16 PM

gnu-

I'm wondering how quickly the ship went from about a 20 degree list after her final grounding to all the way over on her starboard side. In the video you see crew-members horsing around at a 20 degree list, and they're getting the lifeboats launched in a reasonable half-assed fashion. Later in the video, which isn't very long, they're fending off what looks to me like a loose crane and some other flying debris, and they're not looking like they're having much fun anymore.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Feb 12 - 01:48 PM

There's some success reported now on pumping the oil out of the grounded wreck. But it will take at least a month, pumping 24 hours a day. The oil needs to be warmed so it can flow. The tanks need to be tapped and then refilled with salt water after they are emptied.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:58 AM

Well, the harvest this morning of updates on this tragic blunder only turns up this ludicrous offering: Click here for story

You too can purchase your own Capt. Francesco Schettino sailor suit. Just the thing to wear at the next gathering at your yacht club. And if you buy one, you might well be offered command of a mega luxury liner!

My personal alternative choice would be the "Vada a Bordo, Cazzo"(Get on board, damn it) T-shirt.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:36 AM

""The oil needs to be warmed so it can flow""

I take it from this, that the oil is Bunker C,rather than Diesel. Correct?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:37 AM

But... does it come with a life jacket?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 02:50 PM

Bunker C is the usual fuel for such large vessels.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:18 PM

Meanwhile, I've managed to harvest some more bearable news:

By Nick Squires, Rome
3:56PM GMT 09 Feb 2012

Italian divers risked life and limb to rescue a teddy bear that a child had left behind on the Costa Concordia during the chaotic evacuation of the cruise ship last month.

The child's father told rescuers that the little boy had been unable to sleep since the disaster and desperately missed his toy.

He wrote to islanders who had given shelter to him and his son after they were brought ashore when the 950ft long vessel ran aground on the Italian island of Giglio on the night of Jan 13.

Islanders passed the letter to the island's mayor, Sergio Ortelli, who in turn gave it to rescue divers, who entered the hull on a special mission, finding the cabin where the boy had been staying and retrieving the soft toy – bedraggled but intact.

Bad weather has repeatedly forced divers to suspend their operations in the hull of the crippled ship but they took advantage of a break in the weather earlier this week to go back in – a welcome break from the grim task of looking for bodies.

They found the bear hidden in a tangle of debris – overturned tables, chairs, mattresses and scattered luggage.

Rescuers sent the teddy bear back to the boy, who lives with his father in Verona in northern Italy, having lost his mother some years ago.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:26 PM

Cruise ships and fuel

Cruise oil fuel


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 10:23 PM

Ed-

That would certainly be good news if stricter standards were adopted with regard to minimizing the sulfur content of cruise ship fuel.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Feb 12 - 08:05 AM

The updates on this wreck focus on two things.

First, about two thirds of the oil has been successfully pumped out of the ship. However, the oil that remains which is in the stern of the ship will be more difficult to recover.

Second, there is increasing concern about the stability of the hull. Evidently the ship is perched on two rock outcroppings, one at each end of the ship, and as the hull shifts the outcroppings are crumbling and cracks may be developing in the hull itself.

Here's the link at Wikipedia: click here for report!

Fox News (sic) reports on Capt. Schettino's drug testing and seems disappointed that the tests came out negative for cocaine and are demanding more follow-up testing...

And here's a nice quote for your files:

At the time of impact, Captain Schettino was on the telephone with retired Captain Mario Palombo, telling Palombo: "Seeing as we're passing the island, we'll sound the siren for you".[14] In addition, at the captain's invitation, the maître d'hôtel of the ship, who is from the island, came to the ship's bridge to see the island during the sail-past.[47]

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 12 - 03:14 PM

Faux News is "demanding" more tests???


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 01:47 PM

Eight more bodies found today


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 02:05 PM

Even tho it's been 5 weeks, it's still chilling and sad news.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 07:25 PM

Here's one story:

Divers find 8 more bodies in ship wreckage
Published February 22, 2012
Associated Press

ROME-- Divers searching the capsized Costa Concordia cruise ship found eight bodies Wednesday on one of the passenger decks, including that of a missing 5-year-old Italian girl, authorities said.

Italy's national civil protection agency, which is monitoring the operation off a Tuscan island, said four of the bodies had been recovered -- those of a woman, a girl, a man and a person whose sex could not immediately be determined. Because of worsening weather, the divers were unable to immediately remove the other four bodies. That operation will resume Thursday, if seas are calm.

Sad news but at least the families will have some closure.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 07:53 PM

Article over a month old. Not new, but, still interesting.Posting in case no one did so before.

Perfect storm of events


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 08:55 PM

Ed-

The above January 15th report makes interesting reading but at that point it was all pretty much guesswork, and some of the guesses appear not to have been correct.

I wonder how long it will be before there is a final report.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 02:37 PM

Now another of their vessels, after fire in the engine room, is drifting without power near the Seychelles in the Indian Ocean, waiting for a tow.
Some 1000 uncomfortable passengers having a hard time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 03:15 PM

""drifting without power""

As posted earlier, there was a similar loss of power/steering on a similar vessel earlier) Makes one wonder, (outside of human error) if there is a serious safety flaw that needs to be addressed with this class of cruise vessels?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 03:41 PM

Most safety flaws can be traced to accountants and management trying to please shareholders or politicians. Been there, done that. Said it before on other threads... I told them to change my engineering designs in writing, sign and date it or give me in writing a directive to change my design, signed, dated and stamped and notarized by their lawyer and my lawyer, at their cost. I was NOT popular.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 04:05 PM

The Costa Allegra...


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 05:48 PM

Seychelles, Seychelles,
What a sea shore!
Let's all go a-cruising the world to explore!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 06:13 PM

""Most safety flaws can be traced to accountants and management trying to please shareholders or politicians""

True, and the influence of the cruise ship companies at the IMO, is significant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:23 PM

Assuming the weather holds, everything looks promising for the passengers and crew.

There is this interesting footnote in the above report:

"Somali pirates are known to operate in the area where the ship is adrift, though they have never seized a cruise liner.

Nine members of the Italian navy's anti-pirate unit are on board the ship as a precaution."

One wonders if there is really an anti-piracy unit aboard or whether that was put out to scare pirates away. But then, what would Somali pirates do with such a huge catch?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:28 PM

No pirates will get near that ship. Either by the pirates having a clue or by the ship's owners allowing that to happen. Any pirates that do try are stupid and face certain death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 12 - 10:29 PM

Well, the P-Vine has been itchin' to go on one of these cruises and me??? Not...

Keep sinkin' these things and maybe there won't be any left...

Works for me...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 08:03 AM

Another update on the Costa Allegra from the Telegraph UK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/seychelles/9109557/Costa-cruise-liner-adrift-in-Indian-Ocean-six- (link gone sour)

It was reported last evening that one of the large fishing boats had arrived alongside the cruise liner already. Other rescue vessels should be arriving today, and if good weather prevails the cruise ship should be towed into Victoria Harbour in the Seychelles by Wednesday.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:00 AM

Anybody want to buy some stock in an Italian cruise line? Please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 10:48 AM

There have been several engine room fires reported in the last few years, I believe, that have required towing luxury cruise liners back to port. I do wonder if there is a major design flaw.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: EBarnacle
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 01:03 PM

In both cases, you think the captain might regret having left the pier? Costa's reputation, none to good before, is in the can.

On the earlier subject:

Typical Admiralty court hearing:

Captain, how close to shore were you?
Mumble
And were you on deck?
Mumble
Were you keeping a good lookout, as required by maritime law and custom?
Mumble
Then, why did you not see the rock and take the necessary action to avoid collision?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 02:50 PM

Rapparee, the Costa cruise line is owned by Carnival, a corportion based on American and UK capital (Trading at $45 in March last year, now at roughly $30).
The QE 2, and 50% of all cruise line business, as previously noted, are owned by the Carnival corporation.

Bobert, my wife and I both enjoyed cruises but always get an outside cabin and keep the life jackets and shark repellant handy. The outside cabins are the only ones that can get fresh air when the generators go off line. A supply of barf bags is also useful to toss your waste to the fish, since the plumbing could quit. A liner without power soon stinks worse than Uncle Louie's outhouse. And a supply of candy bars and peanuts, since most of the food on board rots.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 05:03 PM

Here's an update:

"The Trevignon, a deep sea trawler which sails the oceans for tuna from the Atlantic port of Concarneau, is pulling the Costa Allegra, a vessel many times its size, on a 400-metre cable at a speed of only about six knots, the Trevignon's skipper Alain Dervout told his local French newspaper, Ouest-France.

He was joined today by two tugs and a coastguard ship, all from Seychelles, the archipelago's government said. A military aircraft was also flying in support of the operation."

So off they go at 6 knots toward the Seychelles. Anyone check the weather forecast?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 05:16 PM

Which is why I don't cruise on the Big Ships.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 05:54 PM

"Join the Navy, and see the World....."


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bernard
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 06:09 PM

Apparently the MS Allegra was originally built and commissioned as a container ship in 1969, and served as such for almost twenty years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Feb 12 - 07:41 PM

According to the evening news, the Costa Allegra is now expected to arrive in Victoria Harbour on Thursday. That's assuming everything goes smoothly.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 01:13 PM

Evidently the French trawler was unwilling to relinquish towing this ship to port to a pair of faster sea-going tugs (MSNBC):

"Passengers aboard a disabled cruise ship will spend 10 to 12 hours longer at sea than was needed because a French vessel pulling the ship refused to give way to tugboats, a Seychelles government minister says.

Joel Morgan told The Associated Press that the cruise ship Costa Allegra likely would have arrived in the Seychelles' main port of Mahe on Wednesday night local time if the tugs had been allowed to take over.

The cruise ship instead is not set to arrive until midmorning Thursday. Morgan, the transport minister, said the Seychelles is not happy that the financial objectives of the French vessel was put ahead of the well-being and safety of the passengers."

I suppose the French trawler expects to collect a hefty towing fee.

So it goes.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 01:23 PM

Oh, and here's an update from the salvage firm that is pumping out the fuel oil from the wrecked Costa Concordia:

Tuesday, 28 February 2012

The oil removal activities recommenced on 24 February with the crane barge 'Meloria' and bunker barge 'Magic Duba' repositioned alongside the Costa Concordia just behind the stabilizer (large fin which is sticking out from the ship). Oil has been removed from three different double bottom tanks and from the double bottom sludge tank. Currently, using the hot tap method, two fuel tanks in the aft part of the vessel are in progress of being pumped.
Outstanding work includes the removal of HFO from four double bottom tanks, the fuel storage tanks located in the engine room and the removal of sanitary residues.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 02:03 PM

I would have done the same. There was a contract to tow. If they don't wire the money, ya keep towing until they do. And you can be damn sure the tower will stop towing before they get to port if the towee doesn't cough up the coin. I say it was Costa's call as far as when they get to port.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 07:46 PM

Evidently the trawler doesn't object to the tugs helping and they are, and I also certainly have no quarrel with the trawler picking up the lion's share of the towing.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 29 Feb 12 - 10:52 PM

The tugs are under contract too. They have to be there to keep her trim and put her in port. This is not a rescue done out of the goodness of heart. All of these vessels are getting paid at this point. Otherwise, the laws of salvage would prevail... no?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 08:38 AM

gnu-

Exactly!

I am bemused to learn that this luxury cruise ship is a converted container ship. I wonder if some of the luxury cabins are converted shipping containers.

But I do wish everyone well!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 08:43 AM

The point is that the trawler diverted from her lawful purposes in order to rescue another vessel. As such, she has the biggest whale in the pond and needs to maintain contact in order to maintain her priority for salvage fees. The tugs are contracted whereas the trawler had to divert from her normal mission.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 12:33 PM

The Costa Allegra has safely docked in Victoria Harbour in the Seychelles. The passengers are being offered several compensation packages, including an extended vacation on the Seychelles. Why not. It's a lovely island with beautiful beaches.

Nice to have a happy ending to this story.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 03:11 PM

Yes, Charley. An inconveience to many but certainly not tragedy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 07:34 AM

From Scientific American

How Will the Stranded Italian Cruise Ship Be Salvaged?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 08:08 AM

We could just hire a barge and sing "Mary Ellen Carter"...

That should do the job!

Charley Noble, Mudcat Salvage Chief


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 08:10 PM

Discovery channel is airing a docu on Sunday night here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Mar 12 - 07:46 AM

gnu-

Thanks for the "heads up."

I do hope they have a full range of interviews with all the "parties of interest."

This special should start as a romantic evening of dancing and dining, shall we say "a night to remember"?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Apr 12 - 09:59 AM

Here's a set of updates edited from Wikipedia:


On 22 March another 5 bodies were discovered in a remote section of the ship believed to be in the ship's hull. Details have not been revealed about the victims' sex or ages or when they can be removed from the water.

Thirty bodies have now been discovered …(in and about the wreck), with two people still missing and presumed dead, including an American couple from Minnesota, Barbara and Gerald Heil.

The defueling operation was completed on 24 March.

(Now that defueling is complete):

… removal of the wreck can begin. On 3 February, Franco Gabrielli, the head of the Civil Protection Authority, told a meeting of residents of Giglio that the ship "will be refloated and removed whole" and not cut up for scrap. Costa invited 10 firms to bid for the contract to salvage the ship. Proposed removal plans will be assessed jointly with the Civil Protection Scientific Committee. Six bids were submitted in early March, and after deciding on a proposal in March or April, Costa will award the contract to the winner. Earlier, the CEO of Costa had stated that after the breaches in the hull are sealed, the ship could be refloated, with difficulty, by giant inflatable buoys and then tugged away. The shipyard where she was built, Fincantieri's Sestri Ponente yards in Italy, is located less than 400 km (250 miles; 220 nautical miles) north of the disaster site. No word has yet been given as to if the ship will be towed back to its original yard, or if it will then be scrapped or refurbished. The recovery will be the largest ever ventured. The salvage will take from 7 to 10 months, depending on weather and sea conditions.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Apr 12 - 10:15 PM

This update is of interest if anyone else is still following this story:

"Italy's highest court ruled Tuesday that the captain of the wrecked Costa Concordia cruise ship must remain under house arrest while he is investigated for possible criminal charges.

Prosecutors wanted Capt. Francesco Schettino to be held behind bars while the investigation continues, but his lawyers had argued he should be given his freedom.

At least 30 people died when the giant cruise liner struck rocks and turned on its side off the Italian island of Giglio on January 13.

Italy's Supreme Court, known as the Court of Cassation, met Tuesday morning in Rome to consider Schettino's house arrest at a hearing closed to the media. The five-judge panel's ruling was delivered Tuesday evening."

I imagine that Capt. Schettino is going a little crazy being under house arrest for this length of time. Some might even claim it is cruel and unusual punishment.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 13 Apr 12 - 06:55 AM

It's appropriate under the circumstances.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 07:56 AM

This update pretty much tidies up the identity of the bodies recovered (two bodies are still missing) from the shipwreck:

"The remains of American and German couples who died when the Costa Concordia capsized near a Tuscan island have been identified, several weeks after the bodies were found in the wreck of the cruise ship, Italian authorities said Tuesday.

The Prefect's office from the Tuscan town of Grosseto, where the bodies were brought, also announced the identification of a fifth body, that of an Italian crewman from aboard the Italian luxury liner which struck a reef off the island of Giglio on Jan. 13 and capsized. Thirty-two people died, including two people whose bodies still haven't been found.
The two U.S. victims — the only Americans who died in the accident — were identified as Barbara and Gerald Heil of White Bear Lake, Minnesota. Also identified were Christina Mathi Ganz and Norbert Josef Ganz of Muehlheim am Main of Germany, and Giuseppe Girolamo, the crew member."

May they rest in peace.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 May 12 - 04:45 PM

"Salvage work should begin this month:

Salvage work to remove the capsized Costa Concordia cruise ship from its rocky perch off Tuscany, where 32 people died, will begin (May) and is expected to take a year, the Italian owner announced Saturday.

The U.S.-owned company Titan Salvage won the bid to remove the ship...

The salvage plan, which still needs approval by Italian authorities, foresees removing the ship in one piece and towing it to an Italian port, Costa said."

Evidently the salvage workers will patch up the hull, pump out some of the water, and then attempt to right the ship with giant hawsers. Huge flotation tanks will also be strapped to the hull to help stabilize it as it's towed.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 12 May 12 - 05:58 PM

Sounds as I expected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 May 12 - 04:12 PM

If you follow this link patiently you should find a set of photos with graphics added that show how Titan plans to salvage the Costa Concordia: Click here for PIXS!

Scroll down to "The caissons on both sides" to find link to graphics and then wait for them to load.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 28 May 12 - 04:31 PM

Charley... could you cut and paste the link please... I can't find it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 May 12 - 07:27 PM

gnu-

That's odd. It still works for me. Here it is: http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/south-florida-travel/2012/05/18/costa-cruises-to-reveal-concordia-salvage-plans-friday/

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 May 12 - 07:29 PM

Here's a summary of the salvage process from the above report:

"Operations will be divided into four basic stages:

After stabilizing the ship, a subsea platform will be built and caissons that can be filled with water will be fixed to the side of the ship that is out of the water.

Two cranes fixed to the platform will pull the ship upright, helped by the caissons, which will be filled with water

When the ship is upright, caissons will also be fixed to the other side of the hull

The caissons on both sides will then be emptied, after treating and purifying the water to protect the marine environment, and filled with air.

Once floated, the wreck will be towed to an Italian port and dealt with in accordance with the requirements of Italian authorities."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 08:16 AM

Preliminary salvage work has been initiated. Here's the latest schedule from an email Costa's Head of Corporate Communications Cristiano De Musso provided:

Now through July 31: On-going site inspections of the ship and its position

Aug.1-31: Securing of the Costa Concordia wreck to ensure on-going safety and stability

Sept. 1-Nov. 15: Installation of caissons on left side of vessel and construction of submarine platforms

Dec. 1: Sensitive stage of salvage begins with rotation of wreck with the installation of boxes on its right side

Jan. 15: Ship to be up-righted above waterline

Jan. 31: Ship delivered to an Italian port for processing according to regulations.

April 30: Cleaning and replanting of marine flora expected to be completed.

Toasts all around (I added that!)

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 05:40 PM

Missed one...

Jan. 16: Captain to be keel-hauled


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jul 12 - 08:22 PM

Before they keel-haul the captain, he has to be found guilty.

Here's the best update I could find on the legal investigation:

Panel of Experts to Review Evidence

Evidence and testimony, which has been gathered since the accident, will be presented to a court-appointed panel of experts made up of two naval experts and two academics. In a process that may take several months, these experts will have the task of reconstructing what happened and apportion degrees of culpability and blame.

Besides looking at Captain Schettino, the investigation will also look at the decisions and actions of Costa's vice-president, Manfred Ursprunger, and the head of its crisis unit, Roberto Ferrarini, with whom the captain was in contact during the evacuation. The ship's first officer, Ciro Ambrosio, is also under investigation. He was second in command of the vessel at the time.

Reports by the four experts, appointed at the hearing in the Tuscan city Grosetto, are due to be presented on July 21.


So maybe in three weeks we'll know more.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnomad
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 12:08 PM

Here is an interesting claim, supposedly from the Captain.

I don't imagine he will offer it come inquiry time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 01:47 PM

As the ship was about to hit rocks off the Italian coast "a divine hand surely touched my head," Captain Francesco Schettino said in a letter to his lawyers which was published by Italian media yesterday.

Which raises the question of whose "divine hand"?

Of course the captain also admitted that he had left his glasses in his cabin and needed assistance from his first officer to view what was on the screens.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 09:59 PM

October 15 is the date of the next hearing. Meanwhile those who have a macabre sense of humor may enjoy the transcript of the black box that was on the ship's bridge: click here for more of the tale

"Recordings retrieved from the ship's black box reveal conversations that almost sound like a farce."

I need to update my song.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 04:36 PM

"Farce?" Or Commedia dell' Arte?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 05:22 PM

Tragic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 01:53 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:35 AM

Here's a well organized description by gCaptain (professional mariners) of how the salvage company plans to remove the Costa Concordia from her present perch on the ledge: click for update!

Meanwhile the captain and other defendants should be scheduled for trial in a month or so now that the preliminary hearing is over.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 09:01 AM

Having just watched the 2006 remake of "Posedon" last night I find this pretty interesting stuff...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 12:43 PM

Yes, I'd love to be there watching when they try to roll her upright.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 05:49 PM

Thanks, Charlie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:09 PM

I saw the Costa Concordia in June, and it was quite a sight to behold. It was on its starboard side, with a big gash on the port side that was out of the water - it looked like a big boulder was wedged into the end of the gash. I gather the ship got the gash elsewhere, and the captain grounded the ship in shallow water instead of letting it sink where the water was deep.

The ship is located just outside the busy harbor of the little island town of Giglio - the ship is bigger than the little harbor, so I'm sure the captain wasn't trying to make it there. The ship is so big and the town is so small. I thought the shipwreck would increase tourism in Giglio, but locals say quite the opposite has happened. People come and take their two photographs, and then move on. They don't like vacationing with a big shipwreck in view all the time.

But it sure was an amazing thing to see.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 08:44 PM

HOLY SHIT BATMAN! I am watching an exclusisive interview with the Cappy on CBC and a redo of the whole thing and this is truly eye opening! It's getting even more riveting.... later...


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 09:33 PM

Well! THAT was eye opening to say the very least! No doubt in my mind that Cappy was at fault by ordering the ship within a distance that would preclude any "mistakes" but THAT is what happened. There would not have been any problems if his orders had been followed EXACTLY before the problem became apparent and ESPECIALLY when it became imminent (when the Cappy calls port and the helmsman turns starboard shit happens!) but that is why one has a safety margin that HE trimmed and it Still falls on him, IMO. As for him "jumping ship", it SEEMS that he did not do so on a lark, so to speak. As for him refusing orders from the Coast Guard to return to the ship, it SEEMS he could not do so.

I think all the SENSATIONAL charges by the media are false. I think the fact that he put the ship in a "vulnerable to mistakes" situation makes him guilty as hell no matter his excuses and he derserves everything he gets for doing that*. But I never thought I would say this... based on what I saw on TV just now... bravo, Cappy... ya done good in a terrible situation. Ya fucked up and yer responsible but you did a GREAT job saving lives after the fact. I understand that and applaud it, even tho that don't mean squat in the end and yer gonna hafta pay*, period... there it is.

*I also think the owners should be enjoined for their part in what appears (on the TV show and otherwise) to have been a contibuting factor to the tragedy.

PS... ya gotta watch the TV show, if ya can, ta know whay I am sayin. CBC, The Fifth Estate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 12:25 PM

gnu-

I had missed your post. Thanks for the reminder.

I'm willing to give the Captain some more rope, so to speak, until the hearing is completed. But I'm sure he will end up dangling from it.

Even cruise ship captains can be held responsible for the safe navigation of their ships.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:18 PM

That's what I said. But, ya gotta hear the story. He will swing but only on one charge. The rest (well, I can't say ALL at this point, obviously) appera false and sensationalized by the media. That TV show was riviting! Typical CBC... them guys are good journalists... among the best in the world. I saw the same over my lifetime on many issues. As a Canuck, I can't help but applaud, yet again, the CBC.

Charlie... have you tried to access the show on the internut?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:26 PM

Today marks the first anniversary of the sinking of the Costa Concordia. Salvage operations are still on-going and way over budget, and now estimated removal date has been postponed until the fall: click here for update!

34 people lost their lives in this foolhardy mishap.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:43 PM

Haven't heard anything lately about the inquiries. I guess the media have lost interest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 09:18 PM

Here's a hot link to the current hearings: click here for update!

When the inquiry is over, a trial may be scheduled on criminal charges.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 09:36 PM

I really have been neglecting this thread and the inquiry is still in process with many a twist and turn.

One intriguing update is a modest proposal for a monument on Giglio Island:

"The only thing to be left after the disaster is the boulder that wrecked the ship. The mayor of Giglio and Costa Cruises plan to position the boulder on the island as a memorial after it has been removed from the hull."

You can't make this stuff up!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 01:45 PM

No, you can't! But, then again, why not? Why not use that rock as the memorial, and why not make this stuff up? I guess it would be like putting up an eternal flame at a site where people had been killed in a fire. Probably poor taste.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 05:18 PM

Whatever rocks their boat!

I'm beginning to feel guilty about poking fun at this nautical disaster. But it's so hard to resist. I pledge to do better!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 10:58 PM

Go ahead. Poke fun! Just don't poke a hole in a ship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 07:50 PM

I'm losing track how the inquiry is going on this disaster. I can't seem to find an update, other than options for luxury Carnival cruises.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 08:37 PM

I'm waiting for the re-floating... An engineering feat, indeed...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 13 - 06:12 PM

It appears that the engineers have succeeded in turning the ship upright. The ship was declared completely upright shortly after 04:00 local time (02:00 GMT) on Tuesday, 17 September 2013. It is resting on a bed prepared for it. Lots of work remains - tanks will be attached to the side that has been underwater all these months, to match the tanks already installed on the other side. Then the tanks will be filled with air in the spring of 2014, so the ship can float and be towed to a salvage yard for dismantling.
Here's the BBC story: The ship was declared completely upright shortly after 04:00 local time (02:00 GMT) on Tuesday.

-Joe-
(I saw this ship on its side in June, 2012)


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 13 - 05:22 PM

Yes, the ship is upright in her cradle after 19 hours of hard work. The side that was underwater is badly dented in two areas where she was resting on the ledge.

There should be a special hell for irresponsible captains such as Schettino.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 05:49 AM

A brilliant feat of engineering to right her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 07:11 AM

News.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 04:58 PM

One hell of a lot of scrap metal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 05:34 PM

Since gnu's link will probably die, let me post excerpts from the BBC story, dated 23 July 2014:
    The wrecked Italian cruise ship, the Costa Concordia, is being towed to the port of Genoa for scrapping after a two-year salvage operation. Its removal is one of the biggest ever maritime salvage operations.

    The Concordia struck a reef off the Italian island of Giglio in January 2012 and capsized, killing 32 people. Captain Francesco Schettino has denied charges of multiple manslaughter and abandoning ship, which could see him jailed for up to 20 years.

    The Costa Concordia was re-floated nine days ago and is being kept above the surface by giant buoyancy chambers. More than a dozen vessels will help to tow the ship. The wreck was hauled upright in September last year but was still partially submerged, resting on six steel platforms. Sirens on nearby boats wailed and bells on Giglio tolled just before two tugboats pulled the vessel away. Italian civil protection service head Franco Gabrielli told the Reuters news agency that "victory" could only be declared when the ship was in sight of the port of Genoa. The cruise ship is being towed to Genoa at two knots, almost at walking pace, with an escort of more than a dozen tug boats. The journey, which is expected to take four days, began shortly before 09:00 local time (07:00 GMT) [23 July 2014].


I visited Giglio and saw the ship on June 17, 2012. It was quite a sight to see.


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