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What is Folk Music? This is...

Related threads:
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Lighter 09 Nov 11 - 05:30 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 09 Nov 11 - 03:54 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Nov 11 - 02:35 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Nov 11 - 10:06 AM
The Sandman 09 Nov 11 - 09:53 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 11 - 01:39 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 11 - 01:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 11 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Emberto Uco 08 Nov 11 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,Lizzie Higgins 08 Nov 11 - 08:41 AM
Spleen Cringe 08 Nov 11 - 07:52 AM
The Sandman 08 Nov 11 - 07:37 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 08 Nov 11 - 06:54 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 08 Nov 11 - 06:05 AM
BTNG 07 Nov 11 - 06:45 PM
Big Al Whittle 07 Nov 11 - 06:37 PM
BTNG 07 Nov 11 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,Chris Murray 07 Nov 11 - 06:22 PM
katlaughing 07 Nov 11 - 06:15 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 02:25 PM
The Sandman 07 Nov 11 - 12:47 PM
The Sandman 07 Nov 11 - 12:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 07 Nov 11 - 11:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 11:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 09:16 AM
The Sandman 07 Nov 11 - 09:13 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 07 Nov 11 - 09:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 08:59 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 07 Nov 11 - 08:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 08:28 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 07 Nov 11 - 08:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 08:01 AM
johncharles 07 Nov 11 - 07:48 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 07:42 AM
Lighter 07 Nov 11 - 07:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 07:31 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 07 Nov 11 - 07:22 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 07 Nov 11 - 07:20 AM
Big Al Whittle 07 Nov 11 - 07:13 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 07 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 11 - 06:13 AM
Big Al Whittle 06 Nov 11 - 07:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 06 Nov 11 - 07:23 PM
Jack Campin 06 Nov 11 - 07:12 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 06 Nov 11 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 06 Nov 11 - 07:00 PM
GUEST,Guest Vivienne 06 Nov 11 - 06:51 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 06 Nov 11 - 06:40 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM
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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 05:30 PM

DtG, he sings better than I do! Where's my prize?

He would have sounded just fine on a square-rigger, new words and all.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 03:54 PM

With Folk it's far easier to say what it isn't that what it is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCke8BfVPBs&feature=related

Traditional? Hell, yeah!


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 02:35 PM

How about this?

:D


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 10:06 AM

Thanks Dick, that brought a huge smile to my face. Did you notice the first comment?

It's great to hear how it was back when people sang for the joy of it and to tell a story. So many people are afraid to sing becuase they don't sound 100% perfect.

I couldn't agree more.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 09:53 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xVT-vdJL4g


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 01:39 PM

I am pretty sure they sang this.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 01:32 PM

...and I'm sure this pair were at our club the other night.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 01:11 PM

What is Folk Music? This is...

"Tui Tui Tuomen Kukka"


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Emberto Uco
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 09:50 AM

ahem.....

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsH/7656-2994.gif


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Lizzie Higgins
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 08:41 AM

'What is Folk Music? This is...'

Interesting version of Coyote Dance. Have you seen this one? It's in foreign, so I guess classes as folk?

http://youtu.be/tg22cs3-jEk


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:52 AM

Have you got a sore throat?

Nay, I'm just a little horse.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:37 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxYiz-6PijM


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 06:54 AM

This music exists to entertain a few friends and not for performance and it can happen anywhere, any time and I think it's wonderful for that reason.

This can be said of any music really; I've enjoyed many such informal musical soirees with folkies, brass players, choral singers, Classical players, jazzers and one memorable evening trying to play in a Viol Consort. I've been part of fireside ceilidhs with exalted singers, stortellers and folk musicians in which we sang anything but folk songs - great fun!

So that tells us about what people do some of the time. What becomes of Folk Music when it does become about more formal performance? Or does True Folk Music preclude that? But all music has its formal & informal aspects; all music has a social side, but all music isn't Folk...


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 06:05 AM

'What is Folk Music? This is...'

Robbie Robertson - Coyote Dance


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:45 PM

well that line is attributed to Louis Armstrong, but there were some on an online community of musicians, historians and enthusiasts that collect and discuss traditional folk and blues songs, folklore, lyrics, instruments etc who wanted to know What EXACTLY is Folk?


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:37 PM

Louis Armstrong once said, I ain't never seen no horse waving round handkerchiefs and applying for an arts council grant......


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:29 PM

Louis Armstrong's horse....
? least he has been credited by some as uttering that quote first


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:22 PM

Has anyone mentioned the horse yet?


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:15 PM

I'm posting this to this thread because it's the latest of the myriad of "what is folk" threads. I haven't read through all of this one so perhaps if it has become contentious, this might bring them back on track.

While watching the online video of the PBS documentary Give Me the Banjo, I heard a wonderful quote by Mike Seeger:

"This music exists to entertain a few friends and not for performance and it can happen anywhere, any time and I think it's wonderful for that reason."

kat


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:25 PM

I'll add a couple more while we wait and see if anything moves us on...

Talay, Ece & Frřholm

Or this load of miserable folkies that I booked at Swinton just before we had to scale our festival down. Dunno what I was thinking of... :-)

Enjoy

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:47 PM

100.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdKvEiW7cWc&feature=related


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:44 PM

never trust a man or woman with a beard.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:36 AM

I must add an apology though in case anyone missed the other in the body of my post. I was primarily referring to the 'Occupy FolK Music' thread when I made most of my above points. It is an easy mistake for a Gnome of very small intelligence to make when one thread seems pretty much like another. I am reluctant to copy all the words I have pasted here to the other thread.

However, by way of apology, I submit my vote for this particular definition of folk music. It has all the elements of that in the opening post with the benefit that I understand the words :-)

No Lullaby

Note the introduction about it being a traditional song btw - I think it will sum up a lot of these arguments to a tee :-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:08 AM

"It is NOT the good people I stand up and rage about ..."

It's those OTHERS! Those who don't share my enthusiasms and who don't ROCK! And those: "folks who started demanding this and that of their performers, whilst totally excluding the very folks who'd kept the circuit going...He was really miffed about it all...saying they were horrible people who'd taken over..."

Yeah! Those horrible people (spit, spit!!) - God, they're so horrible! Don't you worry, Lizzie, one day I might meet one of them and then I'll give him a piece of my mind!

Where, exactly, would I go to meet one of those really, really horrible people, by the way?


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:07 AM

The song's great, Dick but that strange bloke with a beard looks a bit iffy...

:-)

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:16 AM

But it isn't a personal vendetta! And just by saying 'don't come back with...' doesn't make it so.

I have made no personal accusations on this thread. If I have given that impression I apologise unreservedly. I have been accused of a few things myself, which I am more than willing to ignore. All the questions I have asked have been genuine and I still believe that the answers may be of interest to the general public.

I have no interest whatsoever in starting a personal conversation with you so I respectfully decline your offer to PM you.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:13 AM

http://www.youtube.com/user/dickmilesmusic#p/u/23/-jCTeQdBFP8
I think Cecil Sharp would define the above as folk music.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:07 AM

Dave, just take personal vendettas off the board, there's a good fellow. And please don't come back with "But Lizzie, this isn't a ........." 'cos it's getting even MORE boring than 67 verses of Famous Flowers of Serving Wenches!

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 08:59 AM

I can, Lizzie - But to what end? I really do not want to be accused of doing anything underhand and I am working on the basis that the answers to the questions I am asking may be of interest to other people. Are we not better remaining, as it were, in the public domain? If you still would prefer to PM feel free to either send me one or let me know what you want me to send you.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 08:40 AM

PM me, if you must...


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 08:28 AM

Yes, sorry Lizzie, this thread should have been about widening horizons - I got it mixed up with the 'Occupy Folk Music' thread. I am not going to loose sleep over that though. Rather than move all the posts over there can I ask why you wanted to start that one though? Why do you want to 'Occupy' folk music with anything other than what already occupies it?

Yet again, though, we have Dave, do not take issue with me, take issue with those within your world who have, for so long, ruled over it.

You have no idea whatsoever about my world. You have no idea who, if anyone, rules it. There are NO rulers in the world of English Folk - Just those who enjoy it in one form or another.

I have no need to get over anything. I have not been under or on the wrong side of anything to get over. I just want to understand why you seem to know so much about the world in which I live, why you want to change it and why I cannot just live in peace with what I enjoy most.

Cheers

DtG

PS - Do you still believe I am making it up about my daughters knitting and my wife needing to use ear plugs? How can I prove it to you? Pictures? A Medical note?


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 08:17 AM

Dave, do not take issue with me, take issue with those within your world who have, for so long, ruled over it.

Take issue with the bloke on BBC Radio Devon the other day, who was saying exactly the same thing. I can't recall his name, but hey, ring up, or emails Judi Spiers, as he was talking to her about it, saying that backalong he and Mike Harding used to play so many of the folk clubs, what good fun everyone had, how all music was acceptable, then, so many of the clubs were taken over by folks who started demanding this and that of their performers, whilst totally excluding the very folks who'd kept the circuit going...He was really miffed about it all...saying they were horrible people who'd taken over...

I've had more than a taste of those folks myself. Obviously, you weren't on the BBC board back then, else you'd have seen it all...and even the BBC called it a Witch Hunt. Extraordinary..and all because I loved the *wrong* kind of music..

Also, the BBC board had been 'taken over' by traddies, who were fuming that I dared to talk about Singer Songwriters and what I call the New Tradition songs...

You *know* it goes on, Dave.......so let's not bore the pants off everyone with this constant arguing..

I've said all I want to say on this matter now. If folks want to put some more links to the kind of folk music they like, that's fine, that's what this thread is about, to be honest....My first post was short and sweet...It was NOT about saying you couldn't listen to this or that...merely WIDENING the horizons...

Get over it...PLEASE!


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 08:01 AM

JC - :-D

I am dogged (no, nothing to do with dogging - stop it!) if nothing else. Hoping to move to Yorkshire soon so I cam become a Yorkshire terrorist... I blame my lack of intellect but at least, once I do understand something, it sticks.

D.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: johncharles
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:48 AM

DtG, I gave up trying to push water uphill some time ago. Don't let that stop you trying.
john


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:42 AM

let me guess, you have someone in your family who suffers from a medical condition of Talkingitis, right?

No - That is not true but quite funny all the same. The other things I have said are completely true.

I understand that you feel I am trying to discredit you so you are doing the same to me. But I am not making these things up. I should be quite offended that you seem to be accusing me of lying when I am not but, to be honest, and as I have said before, opinions on here have very little value indeed and I don't think you can appreciate how little I care whether you believe me or not. The people that matter know I tell the truth.

A final bit of truth about your last post too -

yet he is derided for that by many within your world, Dave.

You know as little about my world as I know about yours. I do not understand how you know who lives in it when I cannot even attempt a guess at who lives in yours. If we take all the second guessing and assumptions out of this it just boils down to whether we think some music is better than others surely?

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:39 AM

The disputed performances here - and in a million other threads - are all, to varying extents, "folk-inspired."

That said, they're not "folk" any more than a topiary is a plant-seed. People who insist they are are using "folk" mostly as a term of praise for something they like that has some conceivable relation to actual "folk" alias "trad" alias "roots music." (It's never called "folk" if they don't like it, at least not on Mudcat.)

That says nothing, however, about the quality, or even value, of such performances as music or entertainment.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:31 AM

Now I really am confused :-(

Dave, I appreciate the work you're putting in to your new campaign to do all you can to discredit anything I say...and I almost have to compliment you on the cleverness of your new approach

There is no new campaign. I am not trying to discredit anything or anyone. I am trying to understand why someone wants to replace the music I like with the music they like.

And yes, please feel free to bring up Phil Beer's letter, or bring Show of Hands into this

Why on earth would I want to do that? It has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion. In all our past conversations I have tried to keep within the bounds of what we were talking about. I have failed miserably at times but, on the other hand, so have you. I have never been nasty about any performer or any song either. The most I have ever said is that he/she/they/it is not my cup of tea. And still, none of this explains why anyone wants to deny my right to listen to traditional music.

As to knitting and ear plugs. Well, we will have to disagree about that. As you say, you are not an artist. I am and I can understand that people often behave differently from the norm. I would not be upset in the slightest if anyone knitted, did a crossword, wore sparkly ear defenders or painted their bums blue. I would get annoyed if someone spoke loudly through a song or got up and danced around to the annoyance of people who did actually want to see me on stage. But that is never likely to happen as I am not that good :-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:22 AM

I agree Al. The versions I've heard are very, very monotonous.....I think that's what does my head in and causes me to start dreaming of Captain Jack Sparrow again.....

Hell, who needs an excuse! ;0)


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:20 AM

"My twin daughters (in their 20s - Not old fogies at all) are demon knitters and lovers of traditional music. They love to combine the two. They often take their knitting to the pub too. They were bullied at school for being different. How is your ridiculing their actions any different from the type of bullying that you make such a stance against. Besides - How does knitting stop anyone from listening to music or watching the artist. Surely, as a woman, you understand multi-tasking? :-)

In addition, my wife has a condition which leaves her in great pain if the volume of any sound system (particularly the bass levels) is too high. She always needs ear plugs at the cinema and often needs them at concerts - depending of how high the sound man has cranked up the bass or where the speakers are positioned."



I also dislike folks who talk over artists.....

No, don't tell me, Dave, let me guess, you have someone in your family who suffers from a medical condition of Talkingitis, right? But they also love folk music and you dutifully take them along to every gig and plonk them in the front row, whilst putting your knitting daughters behind you and inserting ear plugs in for your wife, all at the same time as answering the incessant talking of your friend, whilst the music plays?

And...I dislike folks who read magazines or papers in front of artists (I was joshing about the Johnny Depp Appreciation booklet, obviously)

So do you have other members in your family who are compulsive magazine readers, needing to carry voluminous bunches of them at all times, regardless of where they may be, for they get Magazine Withdrawal Symptoms, causing them to shake and cry out for 'celebrities' from 'Eastenders' at all times?

Shite, HOW do you get to actually watch an act? I mean, inbetween untangling the knitting, threading the needles, answering the questions, inserting the ear plugs and dishing out newspapers and magazines galore..I mean truly, HOW do you get the time to even notice who's on stage? let alone keep track of what they're singing...of what they may have taken weeks/months to write, let alone appreciating all the stress they're going through of actually sitting or standing up on stage to sing their songs to their audience, who are now so hyperactive that every row is filled with people doing the strangest things, simply because they have to...

I have this wonderful picture in my head............


Oh, and by the way, I'd just like to tell you about Martyn Joseph...you know, that 'Singer Snogwriter' (their phrase) bloke they used to 'put down' at every opportunity, even deeming to mention his dolphin song on the fRoots main page, where they kick singer songwriters where it hurts most, in their talent...telling folks that fRoots do NOT accept Singer Snogwriters, or ARSSs as they used to call Show of Hands (who they now HAVE accepted, strangely)

Well, Martyn was doing a gig once, in Exeter. Half way through a song down wanders a Down's Syndrome lad....followed closely by his somewhat distraught and embarrassed father. The lad climbs on the stage and gives Martyn the biggest hug EVER! Martyn stops the song, hugs him back so hard...then the two of them sit on the front of the stage together, heads pressed towards each other, leaning into one another, whilst they both finished the song together...The most lovely display of love and affection I've seen in a long while. And I seem to recall the young lad stayed for the next song too. It made his evening, his week, possibly one of the best nights he's had...He was beaming when he left the stage to loud applause, absolutly beaming, bless him.

And of course, Martyn's song 'Dolphins Make Me Cry', so derided by fRoots and their followers, was zoomed all over Facebook during the Gulf Coast Disaster, when that tragic scene of dying dolphins covered in oil, desperately trying to stay together whilst they died, in the middle of the ocean, was finally released out into the internet..

He writes songs which move millions, yet he is derided for that by many within your world, Dave. I could mention many other such talented folks who have come in for the same treatment, but I won't.

And now, I'll leave you to invent yet more stories of my bullying, nasty, vindictive nature...as that's how you want folks to perceive me. Those who know me, know I am anything BUT that. Those who choose to believe you, can go to............as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:13 AM

You can't help wishing Jimmy Page had nicked Martin's riff from ffosm and turned it into something snappier. Great riff. Great tuning. love it.

Not sure about the words - all that protean myth stuff - slows the action a bit. Richard Bridge was saying - he's done a snappier version. i wouldn't mind hearing it. In fact dammnit, I'd love to hear it.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:40 AM

Well, if I were an artist and someone got out their knitting, or put plugs in their ears, right in front of me, I'd feel a little..er..a...little...upset, to be honest...Same as I would if someone sat there reading the paper or talking to the person next to them.

It's about showing respect to the artist. If you don't want to do that, then don't go to their gigs. It's that simple really.


Dave, I appreciate the work you're putting in to your new campaign to do all you can to discredit anything I say...and I almost have to compliment you on the cleverness of your new approach, but....I've had way too many years of seeing brilliant artists being verbally castrated by many within the folk world, out there on the internet, where those words stay. And those words were there purely because they didn't fit in with *their* idea of what folk actually is, or because the authors of those words were shit scared that I might actually get others to listen to their music.

I stood up for many of these artists and in doing so, they themselves were ridiculed in the most nasty and aggressive display of suppression I've ever come to know.

I am perfectly within my rights to feel indignation at some of the shitty things that some of the people within your world have done to not only me, but to many talented artists.

I am WELL aware there are some lovely people within the folk world, for I've met many of them...It is NOT the good people I stand up and rage about, but the ones who have their 'Witch Hunts' against those they deem to be 'outside the radar', be it me, or be Bob Dylan..."JUDAS!!!" etc...

And yes, please feel free to bring up Phil Beer's letter, or bring Show of Hands into this, yaddayaddayadda, if that floats your boat....

Please note that I have NEVER been nasty about a particular artist, never.

I may keel over after 57 verses of one song, even if Johnny Depp was singing, clad in Pirate Gear, but no, those songs are not for me...Fine for others...but it's not the traddie songs I'm on about it, is it? It's the PEOPLE who dictate what is and isn't folk, as ever...and who put fences up to keep those they dislike, out.

I'm very glad to see you and Al are now getting on so well...

And now, back to the music....


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:13 AM

This is good, Lizzie - I feel I am making some progress :-) I know it is my lack of understanding BTW so don't think by 'making progress' I am referring to anything you have done. I am just understanding things a bit better.

There are still some things that I am failing to see though -

And please, don't come over all dictatorial with me.

I didn't think I had. Apologies if it came over like that.

I actually love 'some' traditional music..but I couldn't give a hoot for all that 1976 definition 'stuff'

Ditto for me. I think the 1954 definition is useful to some people who need to label music - I am not saying that in any derogatory manner. labels can be very important in lots of circumstances! I don't use it myself though.

Why then, if you like traditional music, are you suggesting it needs to be replaced with something else? Why do you want to deny thousands of people the right to listen to traditional music? Why do you believe that your tastes are more valid than mine or Richards or anyone else's? Help me to understand that.

I mean WHO would want to listen to 36 verses of that???? Holey Moley!

I would. Martin Carthy's version of 'Famous Flower' is one of my favourite tracks. Why should I be subjected to ridicule because my tastes differ to yours? Again - Please explain. I honestly don't understand.

Once, I went to a folk gig and saw people knitting!! They were knitting whilst the artist was singing. I tried to figure out if they were related to those who sat beside the Guillotine and maybe they were knitting in various artists names to a Secret List to be sent to Folk Police Headquarters.

I *also* saw others putting ear plugs in, to their ears, I hasten to add, not to their knitting, and they did this right in front of the band...


My twin daughters (in their 20s - Not old fogies at all) are demon knitters and lovers of traditional music. They love to combine the two. They often take their knitting to the pub too. They were bullied at school for being different. How is your ridiculing their actions any different from the type of bullying that you make such a stance against. Besides - How does knitting stop anyone from listening to music or watching the artist. Surely, as a woman, you understand multi-tasking? :-)

In addition, my wife has a condition which leaves her in great pain if the volume of any sound system (particularly the bass levels) is too high. She always needs ear plugs at the cinema and often needs them at concerts - depending of how high the sound man has cranked up the bass or where the speakers are positioned.

May I suggest to you that these things you have seen are not always as they first appear.

Looking forward to your reply.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 07:28 PM

Hers some folk music by a real Indian from that province of India on the North West Frontier of Brum, called Hagley.

http://sunjaybrayne.com/


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 07:23 PM

Well if you lived next door to that lot, I bet you couldn't wait for the cavalry to arrive.


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 07:12 PM

The real thing:

http://www.indianhouse.com/


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 07:05 PM

Nooooooooo! Don't make me sit through that song again, in fact the mere mention of it has made me shiver from head to foot!

Once, I went to a folk gig and saw people knitting!! They were knitting whilst the artist was singing. I tried to figure out if they were related to those who sat beside the Guillotine and maybe they were knitting in various artists names to a Secret List to be sent to Folk Police Headquarters.

I *also* saw others putting ear plugs in, to their ears, I hasten to add, not to their knitting, and they did this right in front of the band...

How rooooooood is that???

I was told folkies do that kind of thing sometimes, but I was a bit flabbergasted myself, in fact my flabber hadn't been so gasted for a *very* long time!

Now of course, if I'd got to the 15th verse of Famous Flowers of Serving Wenches I'd probably get my Johnny Depp Appreciation Booklet out of my backpack, but...at least I'd do it surreptisiou.....can't spell that..at least I'd do it discreetly, so as not to upset anyone..although the sounds of "Oohs!" and "Ahhhs" may let me down just a fraction, but hey, it *is* Johnny Depp, come ON, folks!

And now, back to folk music...........


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 07:00 PM

"Well, you're the one who'll lose out there, but...if that's how you feel, fair enough. Plenty of others out there to take your place, Shimmy."

Well that's OK then ... they're probably not allergic to 'rocking' like what I am ...


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Guest Vivienne
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:51 PM

"And I'm still recovering from being reminded of the Famous Flowers of Serving Wenches! Yikes that song is too dreary even to die too!! I mean WHO would want to listen to 36 verses of that???? Holey Moley!"

Quite a few people, actually


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:40 PM

I said 'some', not 'all'. Please quote me correctly.

And please, don't come over all dictatorial with me.

Thank you.

I actually love 'some' traditional music..but I couldn't give a hoot for all that 1976 definition 'stuff'

And I'm still recovering from being reminded of the Famous Flowers of Serving Wenches! Yikes that song is too dreary even to die too!! I mean WHO would want to listen to 36 verses of that???? Holey Moley!

I like the New Tradition stuff better. The songs being written today, by living, breathing songwriters. Sometimes they write songs of long ago. Sometimes they write songs of the Human Condition of today...Sometimes, like Robert, at the start of this thread, they sing songs their Granny's used to sing to them, when they were little...

It's all good stuff.

:0)


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Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM

So, Lizzie, tell us what you suggest. Please. It sounds very much like what you are saying is that, because one or two people have had a bad experience with one or two club organisers, the whole of the English Folk tradition needs to be replaced with something else. Something that the one or two who have had the bad experience, and yourself maybe, dictate? Because someone of your acquaintance could not get a gig at a club that may or may not have a policy that is outdated, then everyone who loves and enjoys Traditional English Folk, as well as modern folk, has to be subjected to nothing but the music that you like? What sort of world would that be?

Don't even try to suggest that the traditional folk world already operates that kind of policy because for every example you, or anyone else, may cite about a club in 1969, or in the back end of Little Boring on the Knob, booing a Bob Dylan cover, then people like Will, above or myself or any one of the hundreds of good club organisers out there, will cite the thousands of times that a Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen or Joni Mitchell or Paul McCartney song has been cheered.

This thread may be contentious in that it introduces something that some people may not consider folk music. That is fine - let us have a bit of contention. We already know that a definition of folk music cannot be agreed here on Mudcat. I, for one, find that the 1954 definition is fine - but I would not for a single instance suggest that the only music played at my club has to fit this definition. Nor does it seem would Will. Nor would the dozens on here that have already disagreed with you and the hundreds that feel that your contention is so ludicrous it cannot be addressed at all. Yet still you persist in these malicious and damaging rumours of some sort of Folk Gestapo. You don't need to explain why you do it. We all know why - There is history between yourself and some members on here who like Traditional Folk music.

Again, that is fine. But why don't you just be honest about it and say that you do not like Dave Eyre or Joanie Crump or Diane Easby or me. Why must you try to justify that dislike by suggesting that the whole of the traditional English folk culture is rotten to the core. I would be quite happy if just said 'Dave Polshaw is an arsehole and I don't like him.'. Honestly, I can take it and, besides, your opinion is of little consequence to me. What I cannot sit by and let you do is try to justify your dislike of the few by trying your best to discredit the hundreds and thousands of good people out there who make up the English Folk 'world'.

Now, please carry on singing the praises of whoever you like. Your enthusiasm does you credit. But try to understand that your tastes are not always everyones tastes. They are perfectly valid. They may be contovertial in terms of folk music. But not one single person will punish you for them. Please stop trying to punish everyone who enjoys traditional musuc by suggesting it should be replaced with your own likes.

Cheers

DtG


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