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BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp

Related threads:
BS: Non-Islamic Terrorist in Norway? (223)
BS: security concerns about Norway shooting (142)


Jack the Sailor 27 Jul 11 - 07:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jul 11 - 12:23 PM
Teribus 27 Jul 11 - 11:14 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jul 11 - 10:42 AM
Teribus 27 Jul 11 - 10:16 AM
akenaton 27 Jul 11 - 09:03 AM
Jack the Sailor 27 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 27 Jul 11 - 08:52 AM
akenaton 27 Jul 11 - 08:49 AM
akenaton 27 Jul 11 - 08:43 AM
Charley Noble 27 Jul 11 - 08:37 AM
freda underhill 27 Jul 11 - 06:10 AM
freda underhill 27 Jul 11 - 06:08 AM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 04:42 PM
Donuel 26 Jul 11 - 04:41 PM
pdq 26 Jul 11 - 04:36 PM
Donuel 26 Jul 11 - 04:21 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 04:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jul 11 - 04:06 PM
Donuel 26 Jul 11 - 03:59 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 03:36 PM
pdq 26 Jul 11 - 03:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jul 11 - 03:15 PM
SINSULL 26 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 02:21 PM
Teribus 26 Jul 11 - 02:12 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 01:43 PM
Teribus 26 Jul 11 - 01:38 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 01:19 PM
Teribus 26 Jul 11 - 11:30 AM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jul 11 - 09:10 AM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 09:07 AM
akenaton 26 Jul 11 - 09:05 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Jul 11 - 09:04 AM
Greg F. 26 Jul 11 - 08:48 AM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 08:10 AM
Teribus 26 Jul 11 - 08:04 AM
Teribus 26 Jul 11 - 08:01 AM
Teribus 26 Jul 11 - 07:53 AM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 11 - 07:49 AM
Teribus 26 Jul 11 - 07:43 AM
GUEST,mg 26 Jul 11 - 12:38 AM
Donuel 26 Jul 11 - 12:10 AM
Mrrzy 25 Jul 11 - 11:09 PM
open mike 25 Jul 11 - 03:28 PM
Jack the Sailor 25 Jul 11 - 10:55 AM
Jack the Sailor 25 Jul 11 - 10:52 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 25 Jul 11 - 10:52 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jul 11 - 10:41 AM
Lox 25 Jul 11 - 09:48 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:28 PM

>>But no nut confessed to the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre.
No nutter confessed to the 2001 atacks on the WTC and Pentagon.
No nutter claimed responsiblity for the London 7/7 attacks.
No nutter claimed responsibility for the Madrid 11/03 train bombings<<

I believe that you are wrong in each and every one of there cases. The Wiki page on 7/7 proves you wrong on that one. I really wish that you had enough respect for us to at least research the obvious before you Bull Shit ud.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 12:23 PM

Didn't they? If you've checked you might be right, but I'd be very surprised.

Why do people claim responsibility for things they obviously didn't do? I don't know. But they do. "One of the most famous instances was in 1932, when 200 people came forward to claim responsibility for the kidnap and murder of the aviator Charles Lindbergh's baby in New Jersey." (From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7950613.stm">this BBC News Magazine site)

In a way it's the obverse of the coin for Conspiracy Theories. Something to do with wanting to be part of the action when something shocking happens.   Not a million miles from us writing posts here about it, it might be argued.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 11:14 AM

"Someone out there is always going to "confess" to just about anything that happens."

Only limited to one per incident is it Kevin?

But no nut confessed to the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre.

No nutter confessed to the 2001 atacks on the WTC and Pentagon.

No nutter claimed responsiblity for the London 7/7 attacks.

No nutter claimed responsibility for the Madrid 11/03 train bombings

Why did they claim responsibility for something they obviously did not do? It seems to me to be a reasonable question, as it would be proved conclusively to be a load of BS within hours of the incidents taking place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 10:42 AM

What's the point about speculating about the motivations of some Internet nut like "Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami"? Someone out there is always going to "confess" to just about anything that happens.

I imagine there was probably someone who claimed credit for the Japanese tsunami...


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 10:16 AM

"On radio Glen Beck said "The kids in Norway at that political camp reminds me of the Hitler Youth, who does that? Thats disturbing." (Beck)

How can this man get it backwards everytime. - (Donuel)


Oddly enough Norwegians listening to the news reports on BBC World News actually made comments about this.

I believe the BBC described the Camp on Utřya as being a "Youth Labour Camp"

One of the Norwegians on hearing this said, "That sounds terrible put that way it sounds like Nazi Germany in the 1930's, I hope people realise what sort of camp it really is and what sort of organisation was running this week-end rally."

So I don't think he (Beck) was that far off but it was a comment he should not have broadcast. Youth political organisations are all a bit suspect and should be viewed with great scepticism.

"I am an immigrant jerkwad." - Jack the Sailor

Question for you Jack are you a legal immigrant jerkwad, or illegal immigrant jerkwad, living in the US of A as you do having moved South from Canada?

Figures for legal immigrants to US compared to figures or estimates of illegals in the country? I still say that the illegals figure will far and away be greater than the figure for legals. Now tell me why any other country's statistics should be any different?


Some more figures for you. A bit out of date (2007) but indicative none the less:

- Immigrants in Oslo who registered their religion as being Muslim was about 7.5%

- Actual percentage of the immigrant community in Oslo who were muslim but who had not registered their religion was just over 11%.

Translate that to todays figures about 90,000 registered uplifted by a factor of 1.47 gives you? 132,300 so not too far short of the 150,000 stated by the guy I heard being interviewed on it.

Unless you can come up with a way to explain why someone who did not register his religion in 2007 suddenly wants to do so now for both himself and his family? So that you have a disparity in 2007 yet come 2011 you do not - it does not make sense.

Akenaton is right:

"Being against unrestricted immigration has nothing to do with hatred."

Breivik attacked the Governing Political Party, infrastructure (Government Offices) and their organisation (Youth Organistaion - the latter in the hope that he would kill a prominent Member of the Arbeiderpartiet Gor Harlem Bruntland), who he blamed for unrestricted immigration into Norway he did not attack any group based on their race, colour or religion.

Yet to hear anybody come up with an explanation why Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami claimed the Oslo Bombing? Or is it that something that those discussing these attacks just wish to have conveniently ignored? Why did they want everybody to believe that they had done it? To stoke up racial tension perhaps? And yet they cannot be accused of being racist - ridiculous.

Looking round various countries the following seems to be the pattern:

- In areas with little contact with immigrants there will be higher opposition in principle to immigration

- In areas of higher unemployment there will be higher opposition to immigration

The first is lack of knowledge, the second is economic nothing to do with hatred of race, colour or religion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 09:03 AM

Jack...I was responding to Freda's post.

Many "liberals" here equate all opposition to immigration as "hateful"

You were quick enough to jump in an label me a bigot(above), when you should know very well that I am not.

This is symptomatic of people who define themselves by their labels,
I stated before that opposition to unregulated immigration is not confined to "right wingers"


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM

"Being against unrestricted immigration has nothing to do with hatred. "

Bringing it up in this context has a lot to do with bigotry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:52 AM

A previous poster stated that, "This guy is obviously mad, and his actions inexcusible"
Fair enough, he killed over 70 innocent civilians. But, wait a minute, the body count for innocent cilivian deaths as a result of the Iraq war is over 100,000! Does that make the British and American governments - and the armed forces - all "obviously mad" too?
And, if not, why not!


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:49 AM

The biggest problem with "liberals" is that they like everything tidy and taped into little boxes.

Life is no moe like that, than it is equal or democratic!


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:43 AM

"I think giving credence to this man`s hatred of a particular religious group is achieving exactly the outcome he wanted.

He represents a tiny group of extreme rightwingers (not so many of them in Norway) and to somehow make Muslims responsible for this atrocity is very manipulative.

A better way would be for all of us to look at our own bigotries towards any group and think how dangerous those feelings can be when they turn into generic hatred."

How can anyone take this view? This guy is obviously mad,and his actions inexcusible, but it seems clear that his rage was directed towards governments which operate an "open door" policy to immigration.
Most Western governments are presently being forced to start closing the door as the idiocy of this policy becomes apparent.

Being against unrestricted immigration has nothing to do with hatred.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:37 AM

Stepping back to gain some perspective on this tragedy is, like stepping back into an abyss.

The bloody work of this home-grown fanatic will, no doubt, impact Norwegian society for years. No longer will people feel safe in their homes or in their towns, or even at a youth camp. It's hard to regain a sense of social sanity once it is challenged like this.

Racism, anti-Simitism, anti-Islamic sentiments, anti-immigrant paranoia all continue to challenge our own society's guiding principles.

I hope that the 10th anniversary of 9/11 passes as boringly uneventful but like all too many I dread what may happen.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: freda underhill
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 06:10 AM

ps I've been planning a visit to friends in Oslo since early this year. One works in another government building, very close to the one that was bombed. He's grateful he wasn`t at work that day. I'll be interested to see what their views are when I get there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: freda underhill
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 06:08 AM

I think giving credence to this man`s hatred of a particular religious group is achieving exactly the outcome he wanted.

He represents a tiny group of extreme rightwingers (not so many of them in Norway) and to somehow make Muslims responsible for this atrocity is very manipulative.

A better way would be for all of us to look at our own bigotries towards any group and think how dangerous those feelings can be when they turn into generic hatred.

One answer is further restricting gun access, as we did in Australia after the Martin Bryant shootings. Our gun crime rate dropped considerably, and has stayed down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:42 PM

I think that is more telling about the "articles" you read than anything else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:41 PM

I can believe that coming from a Jewish household, but the definition of hate crime might be leaving out many more "crimes of hatefulness" along racial lines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: pdq
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:36 PM

I read a recent article on "hate crimes" in the US.

It said the 67% of all "hate crimes" are directed at Jews (2 % of the population) and only 2 % were directed at Muslims (3 % of the population).


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:21 PM

Most people agree that the killer/killers are deranged, however I have pointed out time and again that they are inately as normal as you and I.

The conditioning inside a secret society combined with a near worship of guns and a like minded group of people feeding each other xenophobic fears until bigotry comes out thier ears is potent enough for normal people to join the darkside in surprisingly little time.

The social science experiments of assigning pretend prisoner or guard status shows the turn around to take only 3 days.
The experiments of normal people given a task of torture of another human will do so 80% of the time.

When children are put in competitive situations against a rival team conflict can be great.

Where there is hope for normal people resisting such social pressure when the opportunity for altruism exists. Altruism has a slight advantage.

Conforming to a group and its ideosyncracies is far more powerful for people who are repressed and lonely. Of course mudcaters being non conformists for the most part, singing protest songs and love songs gives them an advantage in being thier own person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:10 PM

A lot of people on this forum who I hope would be disgusted by that statement admire and defend him as a "friend of Israel." Is Israel better off with or without such "friends?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:06 PM

I believe it's what he does for a living. Apparently there are lots of Americans who enjoy it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:59 PM

On radio Glen Beck said "The kids in Norway at that political camp reminds me of the Hitler Youth, who does that? Thats disturbing."

How can this man get it backwards everytime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:36 PM

You are right Sinsull, the moral should be small minded bigots reinforcing the purpose of the crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: pdq
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:34 PM

The horrible atrocities committed by Breivik must be condemned by all rational people.

However, that does not mean that there is not a problem with excess Islamic immigration in many countries, not just Norway.

Having an unassimulated minority in someone else's country will eventually cause problems. Likely lots of bloodshed or civil war.

All immigrants should ask to be accepted. Those who just show up uninvited are asking for trouble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:15 PM

A lone obsessive like Breivik could have just about any kind of belief system, and be just as dangerous. Seeing him as somehow representing anything and anybody other than himself is to miss the point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM

What a thoughtful memorial for those who died.
Well done, gentlemen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:21 PM

I am an immigrant jerkwad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:12 PM

And you have lived and worked in Norway for how many years Jack??


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:43 PM

"Meanwhile, the situation remains very much the same and people in Norway are extremely worried about it and so they should be. The concerns voiced by the person interviewed are not rendered meaningless or irrelevant because he muddled his percentages."


No I am not happy. I am not happy because you are not only careless and ill informed. You are expressing horrible bigotry. You are misstating and exaggerating to do so. My only comfort is that, ill informed and careless with the facts as you are, you have nearly no credibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:38 PM

Jack I misunderstood and mistated what was reported - Happy??

Meanwhile, the situation remains very much the same and people in Norway are extremely worried about it and so they should be. The concerns voiced by the person interviewed are not rendered meaningless or irrelevant because he muddled his percentages.

While measures taken against a terrorist organisation as Bush did with Al-Qaeda and their Taliban hosts can halt that organisation dead in its tracks and get everybody muttering about asymmetric warfare. The lesson thrown out by last Friday's rampage shows what one person with a modicum of knowledge, a bit of training and a great deal of planning can do.

Through the strands of the intelligence communities web it is possible to detect the preparation and planning being undertaken by a group. It is virtually impossible to detect the likes of Breivik because his "security" is rock solid right up until he acts and by then it is too late.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:19 PM

"From: Teribus - PM
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 09:05 AM

The "immigrant muslim community" of Oslo amounts to 25% of the population"

"I told you where the figure came from an interview and the immigrant population of Oslo (the city) is according to figures published by the Kommune 28.5% (The guy in the interview stated 25%) - Admittedly not all Muslims only about 55% of them."

55% of 28% is a little under 15% As I said before, even allowing for all of your hyperbole, you are off by more than 1/3.

Rather than continuing to restate the same stupid statement why don't you simply admit that you misstated the facts? That should not be so hard since you have already attributed the error to hearsay. Hearsay from some TV interview which you have obviously misinterpreted or misremembered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 11:30 AM

"Teribus,

Admit it, you pulled that figure from your ass, and even if were so, 5 million people in the country, 170 k Muslims, all conveniently in Oslo city as you say, hardly a tsunami of immigration. If by 2020 as you say, they are 40% the still won't even have a majority vote for city council."


Do you work at being so deliberately obtuse? Or is does it just come naturally?

1: I told you where the figure came from an interview and the immigrant population of Oslo (the city) is according to figures published by the Kommune 28.5% (The guy in the interview stated 25%) - Admittedly not all Muslims only about 55% of them.

2: If that 170,000 is camped right next door to you and you lived in f**kin' China it would still appear that you had been "invaded" albeit "locally". In the good ol' US of A I dare say that the native Americans did not think that the Pilgrim fathers would be much of a problem - How many Palefaces to how many Indians?? - How did that pan out for the indigenous population Jack? Multiculturalism at work.

Oh you never did pay me the courtesy of answering my question about the declared number of immigrants living in the USA compared to the actual number including illegals. But come on Jack admit it you could probably take the official figures and triple them (how many amnesties have you guys had to have now?).

3: Your last sentance there Jack is breathtakingly stupid - they would politically own central and the eastern districts of Oslo - Then just wait for the next election.

Hells teeth I can see why people might be getting worried, what I completely and utterly fail to see is why 100-odd people the vast majority of them youngsters between the ages of 15 and 19 have to die just to attract attention of the nation in order that this twat could voice his concerns in a court of law.

By the bye, the sentencing available under Norwegian Law, is that if he is considered to be a continuing danger to society he more or less in theory can be held indefinitely - he goes up for review as his term comes to an end and he is just returned to prison until the next review. He more or less guaranteed himself that when he came out with the "Not criminally responsible bullshit".


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 09:10 AM

But I'd not put too much credence on anything he says. Wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, and it should be investigated, and makes it sensible to isolate him - but he's all the hallmarks of a fantasist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 09:07 AM

a "terrorist cell" by definition is simply a very small group of people, not directly in contact with any others. That is about the least scary thing in this whole discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 09:05 AM

My "enemy" is right on the button here.

Read and learn!

Well said Sir!


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 09:04 AM

Breikvik himself talks of cells.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:48 AM

Now are they saying a terrorist cell, or is that just US hype?

You mean U.S. paranoia, don't you? Today Oslow, tomorrow Los Angeles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:10 AM

"Lots of Muslims from the former Yugoslavia, from Turkey, from Palestine and other Arab countries come to Norway and hide their real nationality and their religion as they affect their employment prospects. "

Teribus,

Admit it, you pulled that figure from your ass, and even if were so, 5 million people in the country, 170 k Muslims, all conveniently in Oslo city as you say, hardly a tsunami of immigration. If by 2020 as you say, they are 40% the still won't even have a majority vote for city council.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:04 AM

mg

"of course a girl named Peggy O'Toole could be a Muslim"

Ehm No - If you convert to Islam you take an Islamic Name


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:01 AM

That's registered Jack.

You live in the USA correct? How many immigrants live in the USA according to official figures? Now how many immigrants live in the USA more? Less? The same?

Years ago I had to have my Passport renewed by the British Embassy in Oslo. I was asked to register my religion as the Anglican Church got a tax break on number of members. As I am not an anglican I refused. Lots of Muslims from the former Yugoslavia, from Turkey, from Palestine and other Arab countries come to Norway and hide their real nationality and their religion as they affect their employment prospects.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:53 AM

I think I may have mentioned this elsewhere and it answers why the gunman targeted who he did.

He may have been against a perceived Islamic "invasion" of Europe (& Sacndinavia) but his target was the political party he associated with allowing and even encouraging this to happen.

mg asked why he had not been shot by a sniper. Had that political rally not been held on that island (owned by the Worker's Youth League), if it had been held in any rural community on the mainland the gunman would not have lasted 15 to 20 minutes before someone would have shot him. The country is awash with guns and people who know how to use them (Hunters; Bi-Athletes; Target Marksmen; Home Guard & Army Conscripts - all of whom, except the last mentioned, have guns and ammunition immediately available at home)


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:49 AM

Teribus, further clarification

96 k is considerably less than 25% of 596 k


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:43 AM

Some clarification on figures (11th January 2011):

Oslo district contains about 950,000 people

Oslo (the city) has a population of 596,973 people

Innvandrer (Immigrants) most live in Oslo (the city) 170,204

That amounts to 28.5% of the population of Oslo (the city)

"Registered" as being followers of Islam are just over 95,000, or 16% of the population.

Today in schools on the east side of Oslo Fjord 95% of the pupils come from minority non-Norwegian speaking homes. This figure is so high because "native" or indigenous Norwegian parents take their children out of these schools because of the slow rate of learning due to poor language skills of the bulk of the class who only use "norwegian" while they are in school.

By 2025 the projection is that 4 out of every ten people in Oslo (the city) will be of immigrant descent.

Immigration in Norway is the "elephant in the room", a massive silent majority is extremely concerned about it. While France, Germany and the UK are secular Parliamentary democracies, Norway is a Christian Society, religion is still extremely important to the population, no political party would ever challenge the role of the church and expect to survive the next election.

Norway only became a country in 1905, the people are very proud of their country and are very "nationalistic". If you go and live in Norway - YOU MUST become Norwegian, Norway DOES NOT CHANGE to accommodate you irrespective of your language and culture. You live by their standards and you do not introduce your own. There have been massive reactions to such practices as "arranged marriages" and "honour killings" both totally unacceptable in modern Scandinavian society. The message from the majority is fairly clear, if that is how you want to conduct your lives - do so elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:38 AM

I assume that they did kill Muslims. One of the young victims had a name that could be associated with that religion, or could not..of course a girl named Peggy O'Toole could be a Muslim or a girl named Fatma Izbuk could be a Presbyterian. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:10 AM

When you gather a bunch of repressed men with xenophobic tendancies and love the allure of secret societies that hold guns sacred, you get Right Wing militias who know they are always right. They will fight for thier right to show the world how right they are. That usually requires acts of horrific destruction. Remember they don;t have tools, they have guns.

It is the same old story and evolution of madmen like Hitler and his cronies.

Scandanavia has its share of dark hearted fascism under the banner of Nationalism. Its been that way for a long time. The propoganda we here is about a democratic utopia, but people being irrational, thereis a dystopia lurking in the crevices of Scandanavia.

What is odd here is that that they did not target the Muslim "invaders" but instead, the children of the Democratic party.
I guess they a thought a forward thinking plan to rid Norway of liberals in the future was preferable to killing Muslims.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:09 PM

Now are they saying a terrorist cell, or is that just US hype?


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: open mike
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 03:28 PM

this is so sad...I had not heard til last night....glad to hear the perpetrator is in custody.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:55 AM

I think most of Europe is pro-tolerance and sanity. I think that appeasing the homicidal bigots would be a grave overreaction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:52 AM

""...someone who is disconnected from any sense of empathy or understanding of the humanity of others."

There's an awful lot of that around. At the heart of our society. "

Are you saying that the killer's psychopathy is common and "At the heart of our society."

I see a lot of greed and apathy and defeatism. Not as much homicidal psychopathy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:52 AM

Initial reports deem him to be sane. Regarding his motivations, it seems to reflect a growing feeling shared by many throughout Europe at present, only difference is, he took it to the extreme. Governments must take some responsibility when individuals act in such a way. They ignore the silent voices at their cost it would seem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:41 AM

"...someone who is disconnected from any sense of empathy or understanding of the humanity of others."

There's an awful lot of that around. At the heart of our society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oslo Bombing and Shooting at Youth Camp
From: Lox
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:48 AM

Correction,

"someone who is disconnected from any sense of empathy or understanding of the emotions of others."

should really read:

"someone who is disconnected from any sense of empathy or understanding of the humanity of others."


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Mudcat time: 22 September 1:46 AM EDT

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