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BS: Sloppy use of language

Jim Dixon 26 Jul 11 - 04:16 PM
Michael 26 Jul 11 - 03:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Jul 11 - 08:56 PM
Smedley 25 Jul 11 - 06:34 PM
GUEST 25 Jul 11 - 06:09 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jul 11 - 07:03 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Jul 11 - 07:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Jul 11 - 03:47 PM
GUEST, topsie 24 Jul 11 - 03:15 PM
EBarnacle 24 Jul 11 - 02:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Jul 11 - 02:51 PM
MGM·Lion 24 Jul 11 - 04:51 AM
Dave MacKenzie 24 Jul 11 - 04:25 AM
MGM·Lion 24 Jul 11 - 01:54 AM
MGM·Lion 24 Jul 11 - 12:50 AM
Uncle_DaveO 23 Jul 11 - 08:12 PM
saulgoldie 23 Jul 11 - 08:01 PM
HuwG 23 Jul 11 - 05:25 PM
Dave MacKenzie 23 Jul 11 - 03:13 PM
Nigel Parsons 22 Jul 11 - 08:54 PM
GUEST 22 Jul 11 - 06:15 PM
GUEST, topsie 22 Jul 11 - 05:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Jul 11 - 02:12 PM
Amos 22 Jul 11 - 12:55 PM
Amos 22 Jul 11 - 12:48 PM
Dave MacKenzie 22 Jul 11 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Lighter 22 Jul 11 - 10:29 AM
Nigel Parsons 22 Jul 11 - 04:41 AM
EBarnacle 21 Jul 11 - 11:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Jul 11 - 09:22 PM
GUEST,EBarnacle 21 Jul 11 - 08:03 PM
The Sandman 21 Jul 11 - 06:24 PM
GUEST, topsie 21 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Jul 11 - 04:50 PM
MGM·Lion 21 Jul 11 - 04:29 PM
GUEST 21 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM
Amos 21 Jul 11 - 11:57 AM
EBarnacle 21 Jul 11 - 11:35 AM
saulgoldie 21 Jul 11 - 09:24 AM
GUEST,Patsy 21 Jul 11 - 08:34 AM
GUEST, topsie 21 Jul 11 - 05:03 AM
Nigel Parsons 20 Jul 11 - 08:08 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Jul 11 - 08:02 PM
GUEST,Lighter 20 Jul 11 - 04:39 PM
GUEST, topsie 20 Jul 11 - 04:25 PM
GUEST, topsie 20 Jul 11 - 04:01 PM
saulgoldie 20 Jul 11 - 02:17 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Jul 11 - 08:03 AM
Michael 20 Jul 11 - 07:23 AM
GUEST, topsie 20 Jul 11 - 06:17 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:16 PM

If your house burns down, the contents will burn up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Michael
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:45 PM

I've just seen a notice on a door; "Closed this week as floor is being relayed". Didn't say where to.

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:56 PM

Heard when I was visiting at a friend's ranch some years ago.
"Belly up to the table, boys, eat up before we saddle up."

The Oxford English Dictionary has more than ten pages devoted to 'up', including quotes Mr. Shaw would consider illiterate and superfluous.
Often 'up' is added to add emphasis, and I for one, can't get het up over it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Smedley
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:34 PM

As a Spanish friend of mine, exasperated by the oddities of English, once lamented: "How can anyone be expected to learn a language where you have to chop down a tree before you can chop it up?".


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:09 PM

In many international sports these days I hear the term 'Team GB', when surely any team that includes N. Ireland athletes should be 'Team UK', as in 'the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 07:03 PM

My passionate ire led to inappropriate italicisation there, dammit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 07:01 PM

The word "up" is one of the most widely--and confusingly--used words in English. For instance:

Start up vs.
End up or vs.
Finish up

Speed up vs.
Slow up (which is the same as "slow down")

Hurry up vs.
Wait up or vs.
slow up

Make up vs.
Break up

Write up is often the same as "write down".
Load up is really just "load".

Wash up is just "wash"


Ah, yes. And much in vogue these days, especially with that breed of PE teachers who did PE at college because they weren't really clever enough to do much else, is the call to pupils "OK, listen up, guys!" Never mind that the "up" is irritatingly superfluous and illiterate - the "guys" nearly always comprise boys and girls. Ugh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 03:47 PM

Reminds me of the old sailor's hope about the weather- "Set fair."


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 03:15 PM

Another phrase beloved of journalists, and one I think simply lazy, is "set to" as in "the weather is set to get warmer", "inflation is set to increase" - and possibly "the offender is set to receive a flogging".


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 02:58 PM

Upcoming event...


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 02:51 PM

From 'faces punishment', common and accepted, to 'faces a flogging' is a short step, and few would argue the phrase or bother to think that the flogee (hmmm, new word?) has to turn his back to receive the lash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 04:51 AM

LoL right back to you, Dave. But you'll still find it in reports of people accused of booze-running in Saudi, for instance...

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 04:25 AM

I'll take your word for it - before my time.

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 01:54 AM

A misleading cliché which has always annoyed me, as it raises a false mental image, is the frequent piece of journalese stating that an offender "faces a flogging". The victim doesn't face a flogging, does he? Rather, he turns his back to it!

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 12:50 AM

"Wash up" in UK = US "Do the dishes"; if we wash ourselves, we just 'wash' tout court. A 1950s UK Davy Crockett children's parody, for those old enough to recall that particular nine-days obsession, went "The Yellow Rose of Texas and the Man From Laramie - Went round to Davy Crockett to have a cup of tea. - The tea was so delicious they had another cup - And poor old Davy Crockett had to do the washing-up" [to tune, obviously, of Yellow Rose]. Unconvincing, the nephew, then about 5, that I learnt it from pointed out, because a second cup is generally poured in the same cup as the first so no additional washing-up would have been necessary!

Note, in connection of 'up, that 'it is up to you' [= 'it is your responsibility to do it'] has of late become confused with the more recent, I think of US origin, 'it is down to you' [= 'you are the person who caused it to happen'] ~~ a fine shade of distinction which it is a pity to lose, I think.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:12 PM

Our media now says something is "headed up" by someone instead of just "headed." Why?

The word "up" is one of the most widely--and confusingly--used words in English. For instance:

Start up vs.
End up or vs.
Finish up

Speed up vs.
Slow up (which is the same as "slow down")

Hurry up vs.
Wait up or vs.
slow up

Make up vs.
Break up

Write up is often the same as "write down".
Load up is really just "load".

Wash up is just "wash"

And so on and on and on.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: saulgoldie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:01 PM

A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and proceeds to fire it at the other patrons.

'Why?' asks the confused, surviving waiter amidst the carnage, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

'Well, I'm a panda,' he says, at the door. 'Look it up.'

The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation. 'Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots, and leaves.'

Buh-dum-bunh!


Commas and apostrophes: use knowledgeably or not at all!

Oh, and SAVE THE SEMICOLON; it is very handy when well-used.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: HuwG
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:25 PM

An old wartime book my father possessed discussing enemy (i.e. German, Italian and Japanese) aircraft, mentioned an Italian aircraft, the Cant 1007. The airframe was nothing particularly special, but its engines never attained the designed power and the aircraft was very underpowered.

The writer suggested that "it would not be facetious to insert an apostrophe between the 'n' and the 't'."


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:13 PM

But you'll never hear the British say 'cant mil croeso' (except in songs transalated from the Irish).


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 08:54 PM

As I said in the other thread:
Drop apostrophes?
The religious cant!


Another use of 'can't' or 'cant'

cant ar hanner



For the non-Welsh, that's a count on the postings at 150, or 100 (cant) + 1/2 a hundred (hanner)

Hwyl fawr


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 06:15 PM

My face is red,green and polka-dot, topsie. I lost my cookie on that one. Q


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 05:45 PM

... or even in a straitjacket


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 02:12 PM

Ships belay! Steer away, Amos approaching, level 5.

Amos, the variations in the meaning of careen in that online dictionary pretty much are those in the Oxford English Dictionary.

Words can't be put in a straight-jacket.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 12:55 PM

Ships are called "she" because they are strangely attracted to storms, and often hang out with the gulls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 12:48 PM

Careening the Issuma at the mouth of the Saint Lawrence.

From an online dictionary:

ca·reen (k-rn)
v. ca·reened, ca·reen·ing, ca·reens
v.intr.
1. To lurch or swerve while in motion.
2. To rush headlong or carelessly; career: "He careened through foreign territories on a desperate kind of blitz" (Anne Tyler).
3. Nautical
a. To lean to one side, as a ship sailing in the wind.
b. To turn a ship on its side for cleaning, caulking, or repairing.
v.tr. Nautical
1. To cause (a ship) to lean to one side; tilt.
2.
a. To lean (a ship) on one side for cleaning, caulking, or repairing.
b. To clean, caulk, or repair (a ship in this position).
n. Nautical
1. The act or process of careening a ship.
2. The position of a careened ship.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[From French (en) carčne, (on) the keel, from Old French carene, from Old Italian carena, from Latin carna; see kar- in Indo-European roots.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ca·reener n.
Usage Note: The implication of rapidity that most often accompanies the use of careen as a verb of motion may have arisen naturally through the extension of the nautical sense of the verb to apply to the motion of automobiles, which generally careen, that is, lurch or tip over, only when driven at high speed. There is thus no reason to conclude that this use of the verb is the result of a confusion of careen with career, "to rush." Whatever the origin of this use, however, it is by now so well established that it would be pedantic to object to it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:45 AM

Is this because some Americans pronounce bouy as if it were the Gaelic for yellow?


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 10:29 AM

It does with mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 04:41 AM

I thought boats were 'She' because they like to tie up to a buoy!


Please note, this comment doesn't work with the US pronunciation of 'booee'!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:38 PM

That shot was below the waterline.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:22 PM

And scrapin' the barnacles.

(I couldn't resist-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST,EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 08:03 PM

Ships and other waterborne vessels are she 'cause it costs so much to keep 'em in powder and paint. That's what I was told by an old sailor I knew many years ago and it makes as much sense as any other explanation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 06:24 PM

do ships copulate, of course they dont, so lets stop this; she for ships: and he for trucks, otherwise we will be getting ships and trucks mating and pricks getting muddled up with shuts, or prucks getting mixed up with shits, a pruck is term used in ulster to describe items that look nice but are useless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM

Another sloppiness that has been annoying me lately is the people wh MEAN to say 'as many people as possible' 'as much money as possible', etc. etc. but who don't bother to say the 'as possible' part.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 04:50 PM

If guest looks in his complete OED, he will find that US careen = Eng. career ain't quite correct- That equivalency also started with an English writer (as posted before, I think in this thread).


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 04:29 PM

That was me ~~ new computer, my cookie needed resetting. Normal bizniz resumed...

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 12:20 PM

Amos ~ careen~ Yes, but the latter usage is solely US ~~ our equivalent is career.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:57 AM

Careen has two distinct and separate meanings, the lesser known of which is to place a vessel in shallows so that the outgoing tides will leave it propped up (if done right) on the bottom, for maintenance or repair. Sometimes the vessel is just allowed to lie on one or the other side. This is in stark contrast to the more commonly known meaning of tearing ahead wallowing, as in "The out of control minibus careened through the crowded market...".


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 11:35 AM

Nicely done, Saul.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: saulgoldie
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 09:24 AM

I think this is the thing I was talking about when I mentioned spell-checker:

I have a spelling chequer,
It came with my pea sea,
It plainly marks four my revue,
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key an type a word,
And weight four it two say,
Weather eye am wrong oar write,
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid,
It nose bee fore to long,
And eye can put the error rite,
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it,
I am shore your pleased two no,
Its letter perfect awl the weigh,
My chequer tolled me sew.


For the record, my spell-checker and grammar-checker both live behind my eyes, below my hat.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 08:34 AM

I was brought up to believe that ships and boats were referred to as 'she' and later computers were referred to as 'he' because they are so troublesome. Just joking of course!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 05:03 AM

Nigel, having explained how it worked (as in Humpty Dumpty) in the earlier post, I deliberately left the later post untranslated so that people could have the pleasure of working it out for themselves - you obviously enjoyed it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 08:08 PM

Talking of sloppy use of language,
In that last comment, for homonym, read homophone!

Cheers


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 08:02 PM

Saul, that reminds me of a book of nursery rhymes I once saw, but sadly I haven't a copy. They are written in what looks like French but the result sounds like English with a French accent. All I can remember is the start of
"Un petit d'un petit ..."

[=Humpty Dumpty]

From: GUEST, topsie - PM
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:25 PM

I did a bit of Googling and I found it - it's called "Mots d'Heures: Gousses Rames".

The title, of course, is an English/French homonym of Mother Goose's Rhymes


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:39 PM

Let's give credit where it's due: to the eccentric genius of the creator of "Mot d'Heures: Gousses Rames," U.S. architect and actor Luis van Rooten (1906-1973).


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:25 PM

I did a bit of Googling and I found it - it's called "Mots d'Heures: Gousses Rames".


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 04:01 PM

Saul, that reminds me of a book of nursery rhymes I once saw, but sadly I haven't a copy. They are written in what looks like French but the result sounds like English with a French accent. All I can remember is the start of
"Un petit d'un petit ..."

[=Humpty Dumpty]


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: saulgoldie
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 02:17 PM

This reminds me of a bit I recently saw, but I can't remember where. It was a piece that "made sense." But it was spell-checked, but not grammar-checked. So the words were correctly spelled, and if you transposed the words with homonyms, it made sense. But by the *actual meanings* of the words, the piece made no sense. Anyone seen something like this?

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 08:03 AM

"You can't come with me, period."
Which has a completely different meaning if said by a girl you've tried to pick-up at a disco!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: Michael
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 07:23 AM

Topsie's post reminds me of another; the use of the word 'period' at the end of a statement meaning 'I'm not accepting argument'as in: "You can't come with me, period."

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Sloppy use of language
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 06:17 AM

As well as 'at this moment in time' I get annoyed by 'time period' - usually either 'time' or 'period' would be much better and clearer. Why clutter language up with pointless extra noise?


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