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BS: Don't touch that steak!

GUEST,Tunesmith 22 Apr 11 - 03:10 PM
Ebbie 22 Apr 11 - 03:17 PM
Jeri 22 Apr 11 - 03:23 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 22 Apr 11 - 03:46 PM
Becca72 22 Apr 11 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 22 Apr 11 - 04:07 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 22 Apr 11 - 04:10 PM
Bonzo3legs 22 Apr 11 - 04:10 PM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 22 Apr 11 - 04:18 PM
maple_leaf_boy 22 Apr 11 - 04:42 PM
gnu 22 Apr 11 - 04:47 PM
Bill D 22 Apr 11 - 04:55 PM
Little Hawk 22 Apr 11 - 07:23 PM
bobad 22 Apr 11 - 07:28 PM
Bobert 22 Apr 11 - 07:30 PM
Jeri 22 Apr 11 - 07:31 PM
Little Hawk 22 Apr 11 - 07:33 PM
pdq 22 Apr 11 - 07:54 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Apr 11 - 08:14 PM
Midchuck 22 Apr 11 - 08:19 PM
Jeri 22 Apr 11 - 09:03 PM
EBarnacle 22 Apr 11 - 10:35 PM
J-boy 23 Apr 11 - 12:52 AM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Apr 11 - 01:55 AM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Apr 11 - 01:56 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 23 Apr 11 - 02:29 AM
Penny S. 23 Apr 11 - 03:35 AM
catspaw49 23 Apr 11 - 04:17 AM
EBarnacle 23 Apr 11 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,leeneia 23 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM
Bill D 23 Apr 11 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,999 23 Apr 11 - 12:49 PM
gnu 23 Apr 11 - 01:39 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 23 Apr 11 - 01:54 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Apr 11 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,crazy little woman 23 Apr 11 - 02:36 PM
bobad 23 Apr 11 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 23 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Apr 11 - 03:24 PM
EBarnacle 23 Apr 11 - 03:50 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Apr 11 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 23 Apr 11 - 05:38 PM
bobad 23 Apr 11 - 05:52 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 23 Apr 11 - 07:28 PM
gnu 23 Apr 11 - 07:46 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Apr 11 - 07:53 PM
EBarnacle 23 Apr 11 - 10:10 PM
catspaw49 24 Apr 11 - 12:37 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 24 Apr 11 - 03:41 AM
The Fooles Troupe 24 Apr 11 - 05:27 AM
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Subject: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:10 PM

I'm reading "The China Study" at the moment. The "China Study" itself was a mammoth study, conducted in China, on the connection between diet ( what we eat) and disease.
The book concludes that if we want to stay free from "Western Diseases" ( i.e. cancer, diabetes, heart disease, dementia and so on) we should be eating a plant based diet.
The book is "a must" read, and the evidence presented is very comprehensive and compelling.
However, I bet hardly anyone reading the above info will go out and buy the book... the that is surely food ( plant based, of course) for thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:17 PM

Question: What is/are the rate(s) of those diseases in Asia? I truly don't know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:23 PM

Then there's Spotting Bad Science 103: The China Study
The China Study we will dissect is not actually a study at all.
It's a book. The research it claims to present was well
designed, to the extent that a large-scale observational study
can be. Given the constraints, it was good science. The
subsequent book, in contrast, has been used as a vehicle for
convincing the public of black-and-white conclusions that
aren't justified by the China-based studies for which the book
is titled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:46 PM

First, I don't trust the government - or people with vested interests - to tell us the truth about nutrition; for example, if the author of The China Study is correct in his findings ( and there are many very well qualified nutritional experts who think he is) then the government should be telling us not to eat meat and dairy products, but, of course, they couldn't do that as it would decimate whole sections of the farming industry.
The evidence in the book that a plant based diet(and most of that eaten raw) is the best way to avoid "Western Diseases" is, I think, very compelling.
Read the book!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Becca72
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 03:54 PM

"First, I don't trust the government - or people with vested interests"

I bet the author has a "vested interest"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:07 PM

The only one that I could think of is that he seems to have spent a lot of his life being funded to study the connection between food and desease; however, I would recommend that you read the book.
The author adresses criticism of his book on his website.

a href="http://www.tcolincampbell.org/">Link to T Colin Campbell website.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:10 PM

Here's another go at that link.

T Colin Campbell websirte link


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:10 PM

Just had an enormous Mini Bife de Corizo in El Palacio de la Papa Frita in Buenos Aires - best meat in the world!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:18 PM

So why did the local Chinese just charge me £5.95 for a beef curry, was he extracting the urine ?


Beef is one of the principal meats used in the cuisine of Australia, Europe and America, and is also important in Africa, East Asia, and Southeast Asia. Beef is considered a taboo food in some cultures: especially in Hinduism although not strictly forbidden, as bovines are revered; it is also discouraged among some Buddhists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:42 PM

Other studies show that meat is good for you. There was a profile on
the qualities of raw meat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:47 PM

Eat seals. Fish is good for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:55 PM

Our ancestors for 5 million years were **omnivores**....and some of them STILL live in places where not much 'plant material' is available.

Still, the average life span rises.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:23 PM

Ah...another glorious opportunity for people here to reiterate and defend their established belief systems and attack and attempt to discredit all others...

Should be a busy thread, I expect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: bobad
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:28 PM

Belief systems -- that just about says it all.......sheesh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:30 PM

Ain't eat no 4 legged creatures since 'round '68... Fish and veggies do just fine... Chicken in a pinch...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:31 PM

Yeah, it's about beliefs, but you're just another contributor doing the same thing. Hard to not do if you're going to write anything at all--unless you try to hi-jack it, which isn't unheard of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:33 PM

The thing that most people most strenuously resist is: ANY thought or idea that was not already their own.

End of the F-ing story.

If you waste any time arguing with them online about it, you've just taken another step into the digital quicksand, and lost another piece of your own life to it. With that thought in mind, I think I'll go out to the coffee shop instead and have a bite. See you later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: pdq
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:54 PM

The Chinese are very practical people and their government will do anything it has to do to keep their people in line.

They devise a study which says that rice is best, perhaps with a little soy sauce and occasionally a piece of fish.

Think how much resources they save by getting their charges to go along with the program.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 08:14 PM

Proportion of Chinese rice consumers to wheat consumers?

China is the largest wheat consumer, about 17 percent of global use.
Only the warmer southeast produces rice. The rest depends on wheat.

The government is worried by drought in the wheat provinces; not only is it for local consumption but China is the world's largest winter wheat exporter.
Bloomberg, Feb. 10.2011: "Wheat Hoarding Likely to Be Widespread, Prompting Price Gains, UN says."

Had a wonderful steak last night. Much preferable to that finny stuff marinating in polluted waters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Midchuck
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 08:19 PM

"Vegetables aren't food. Vegetables are what food eats."

P.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 09:03 PM

"If you waste any time arguing with them ..."

I'm with you there. I generally don't bother, because people are locked into their scripts. Me too, although mostly what I do is complain about other people being locked into scripts. Ironic.

This is just an agenda thing. I think there's often some way to prove any pet theory, at least as long as the "proof" is not very closely scrutinized. I know vegetarians, vegans, and people who'd go out and kill them some vittles if they had to. Seems like their health is more affected by other factors such as genetics, smoking, drinking, not wearing seat belts, snorting asbestos or silica, not looking both ways before crossing the street, riding motorcycles, getting sun burnt, or any number of things which are all far more effective at killing us than meat.

Of course, I'd love to hear what one or more of the un-converted thinks of the book after reading it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 10:35 PM

As a matter of resources, eating meat of any sort is not economical. It takes a lot of food to make a pound of meat.

Most of that food is vegetable matter that, if eaten directly would be a lot cheaper than the subsidized meat that I and many others enjoy.

As a good omnivore, I am quite aware that, if it were not for subsidies and cheap water, meat would be a luxury and greenhouse gasses [other than methane] would be much lower.

Of course, beautiful example of the diversion of vegetable foods is the fact that the manufacture of ethanol from corn is a significant factor in the recent food riots in third world countries around the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: J-boy
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:52 AM

You can take my steak when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:55 AM

... by putting a stake thru his heart ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:56 AM

Do not tie me to a stake(stea)!

Why Not?

I'm a vegetarian!


Goon Show BBC 1960s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 02:29 AM

Well it's pretty clear that the people ( i.e the drugs industry, the meat and dairy industry, and even governments) who want us to keep eating unhealthily - with all the horrors that will bring - are winning the battle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 03:35 AM

Meat is a way of getting unusable vegetable matter growing on land which cannot be used for growing plants edible by humans into a form usable by humans - or it was, before feedlots and intensive feeding of cattle with plant products which could feed humans. In those instances where grazing is the primary way of feeding the animals, it is economic.

Mind you, round here, the grazing land is used for horses, which are neither eaten, nor, as in the past, provide any transport or traction.

There has been recent scientific research on the importance of cooking for the human digestion and development of intelligence. It makes food more digestible, and means we have to spend less time eating, by comparison with other apes with vegetarian diets.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 04:17 AM

I think there is a study somewhere on the bad effects of studies on your health. If not, there should be. Find me a study declaring how bad beef is and I'll show you one declaring the problems of being vegetarian. Eat fish...Don't eat fish....Drink coffee...Don't drink coffee...Shove a poker up your ass...Don't shove a poker up your ass..................................


Whatever winds your watch.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 07:46 AM

Spaw, that's why I put it in terms of economics, rather than health. There is no question about the amount of fodder needed to produce a pound [or kilo] of meat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM

"I think there is a study somewhere on the bad effects of studies on your health."

Thank you, spaw. That was like a breath of fresh air.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:38 PM

There's several types of vegetarians: Those who believe it's 'healthier', those who do it for religious reasons (like Jainism), those who do it for economic reasons,....and those afflicted with BBES...(Big Brown Eyes syndrome)


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:49 PM

Likely more people would give up meat if they had to kill and butcher the animals. Maybe not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: gnu
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:39 PM

999... if that was the case, even the meat eaters would eat much less meat. In my experience, most people who raise animals for their own food, or those who hunt for food, have a MUCH greater respect for the animals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:54 PM

catspaw49 says, "I think there is a study somewhere on the bad effects of studies on your health. If not, there should be. Find me a study declaring how bad beef is and I'll show you one declaring the problems of being vegetarian. Eat fish...Don't eat fish....Drink coffee...Don't drink coffee...Shove a poker up your ass...Don't shove a poker up your ass.................................."

That being the case, how did you decide which "nutritional road" to take.

Of course, as I stated early, it's in lots of groups interest to "muddy the water" and confuse people. They make fortunes that way.

A thinking person would read as much as they can on the subject and then make an intelligent informed choice.

As I see it, the evidence points to a rejecting meat and dairy products and processed food and junk food.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 02:16 PM

I had Tostitos and Salsa for breakfast. Addictive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 02:36 PM

Some societies have to have something to obsess about. For some, it's sex, for others, it's class and wealth. For yet others, it's black magic and superstition.

In America today, a lot of people are obsessing about food. Is your salt "sea salt" or did it just come from the sea? Is it kosher? (No, mine is NaCl, and that's all I care about.)

Madmen in the middle east are building nuclear weapons while suburban moms are fretting about whether the green beans are local.

As for being a vegetarian - if I don't eat meat, I feel tired and listless. I can eat vegetables and grains all day (and I will) and never be satisfied.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: bobad
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 02:52 PM

Then there's the Paleolithic Diet


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM

crazy little woman: Is it obsessive to want to live a disease free, healthy long life? Is it obsessive to not want to end up not recognising those near and dear to you?
These are the things that you want to consider next time you tuck into a steak!
As to the energy thing. There are vegan caged fighters and vegan marathon runners out there. How much energy do you think that they have?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 03:24 PM

Up to 88 so far.
I'll stick with beef in a balanced, omnivorous diet.
Pork and lamb ain't rejected either. And love those meatballs with pasta. Canary melons are coming into the market now- coupled with Serrano ham-. Spring lamb time as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 03:50 PM

Q, you must not forget the figs to go with the ham, preferably prosciutto and melon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:23 PM

Prosciutto is fine but I prefer a Spanish serrano with the melon.

For the last three years, imported Spanish serranos are available in Canada.

(Hate to upset tunesmith further, but my wife is preparing bacon, cheddar and tomato sandwiches for dinner).


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:38 PM

Q, this is going to be a bit heavy... but I hope somewhere down the line your smart-arse stance doesn't come back to cause you - or a loved one - a whole lot of pain! But it probably will!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: bobad
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:52 PM

Would that we all live to Q's age.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 07:28 PM

I've been an omnivore for years, but will probably have to become a vegetarian in the near future.

Dodge stopped producing Omnis in 1990, so they're becoming harder to find each year. And the few that are left are in pretty bad shape. Once you cut away all the rust and toss out the mildewed seats and carpet there's barely enough left to make it worth taking to the butcher shop.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: gnu
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 07:46 PM

bobad... agreed... to live that long AND have the mental accuity, intelligence and insight as demonstrated in numerous posts herein... must be a diet worth considering.

Sorry, Q, if that embarasses you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 07:53 PM

I'll find out whether I 'done right' when I'm bloody well dead, as the song has it.
In the meantime- what, me worry?


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 10:10 PM

Don't worry, just do what seems right. It causes fewer wrinkles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 12:37 AM

Ya' know, I just get tired of being preached at as if I didn't know the score. I've known the score for a long time but in food I chose eating all things in some moderation although I sometimes go over the edge because I enjoy it. The health problems I have are related to smoking almost 100% and that was a dumbass choice. But I knew that too.

Being a "thinking man" or making intelligent decisions has little to do with my life which I have enjoyed immensely. Passion on the other hand has everything to do with it. For 45 years I have ridden motorcycles because I love them.........perhaps you have read the statistics and studies. Obviously a "thinking man" would not be found on a bike. When I was younger I sailed a lot and often under adverse conditions when it was (for me) the most fun. And for the rest of my recreational time on spring and summer weekends I could be found strapping into specially built and extremely powerful cars filled with methanol fuel and driving in circles, often sideways. No "thinking man" does that, but passionate people often do. Passion and fun win out every time.......but that's just me.

I read the studies and they don't always agree but it doesn't matter. If they wind your watch, good for you! Have at it but try not to preach on the subject.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 03:41 AM

catspaw49: You're right there, no thinking man would do that but an anti-social idiot would!


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Subject: RE: BS: Don't touch that steak!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 05:27 AM

"There is no question about the amount of fodder needed to produce a pound [or kilo] of meat. "

So can you tell me how much nutrition you as a human would get out of a pound of grass... :-)


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