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BS: Obama, religious bigot?

GUEST,Guest from Sanity 22 Apr 11 - 01:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Apr 11 - 01:00 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 22 Apr 11 - 12:59 PM
goatfell 22 Apr 11 - 12:25 PM
Ron Davies 21 Apr 11 - 10:44 PM
artbrooks 21 Apr 11 - 08:17 PM
Stringsinger 21 Apr 11 - 05:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Apr 11 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,999 21 Apr 11 - 12:25 PM
Richard Bridge 21 Apr 11 - 12:01 PM
Greg F. 21 Apr 11 - 09:51 AM
Ron Davies 21 Apr 11 - 07:14 AM
Ron Davies 21 Apr 11 - 07:06 AM
Ron Davies 21 Apr 11 - 07:04 AM
Richard Bridge 20 Apr 11 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 Apr 11 - 02:03 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Apr 11 - 01:09 PM
Amos 20 Apr 11 - 12:12 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Apr 11 - 11:57 AM
Greg F. 20 Apr 11 - 11:46 AM
Ebbie 20 Apr 11 - 11:23 AM
Richard Bridge 20 Apr 11 - 03:42 AM
akenaton 20 Apr 11 - 02:57 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 Apr 11 - 01:46 AM
LadyJean 20 Apr 11 - 01:05 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 Apr 11 - 11:52 PM
GUEST,Crazy Horse 19 Apr 11 - 09:39 PM
catspaw49 19 Apr 11 - 09:29 PM
Amos 19 Apr 11 - 07:20 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Apr 11 - 07:07 PM
Little Hawk 19 Apr 11 - 05:59 PM
akenaton 19 Apr 11 - 05:10 PM
Don Firth 19 Apr 11 - 03:17 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 Apr 11 - 03:14 PM
Amos 19 Apr 11 - 03:05 PM
Amos 19 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM
Don Firth 19 Apr 11 - 02:28 PM
Brian May 19 Apr 11 - 02:19 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Apr 11 - 01:07 PM
Ebbie 19 Apr 11 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 Apr 11 - 12:37 PM
Stringsinger 19 Apr 11 - 12:13 PM
Joe Offer 19 Apr 11 - 02:36 AM
Richard Bridge 19 Apr 11 - 01:42 AM
Ebbie 19 Apr 11 - 01:33 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 Apr 11 - 12:15 AM
Ron Davies 18 Apr 11 - 09:18 PM
Ron Davies 18 Apr 11 - 08:25 PM
Bobert 18 Apr 11 - 08:09 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:59 PM

McGrath of Harlow,
The 'bigotry' rap is obsolete, overused and misused. It's just 'old hat' for baseless name calling!

Regards!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:00 PM

It's all a bit like arguments as to whether Football should be called Soccer... Except that that doesn't lead to accusations of "bigotry".


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 12:59 PM

Ron Davies: "... He certainly is a successful black man. Perhaps that rankles you..."

Personally, I think he is a shitty President,.....and it has NOTHING to do with his race, creed or co;or!..just his crappy policies..which were NOT pushed to help YOU, or anyone on here, or the American people!
Actions, and results speak louder than words!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: goatfell
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 12:25 PM

no he is not?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 10:44 PM

Ah, Greg,    what a pleasant surprise to see you here.   And as informative and constructive as always.    I note with interest that you do not contradict my description of the two threads in question. Thanks for the   vote of confidence.



Richard--what you have said is clearly on Mudcat for all to read.   I have given the exact citation for the first thread under discussion.   And the second one speaks for itself.

You have started 2 threads attacking Barack Obama--both on a very questionable basis. Barack Obama, who might possibly be for you an "uppity black man".    He certainly is a successful black man. Perhaps that rankles you.



That Richard is a "genteel" racist is at least as likely as that President Obama is a religious bigot.

I'm sure all readers can judge the likelihood of each proposition.

Richard might at least want to consider some friendly advice:   when you're in a hole, stop digging.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 08:17 PM

I think that for Mr. Obama to say that he personally believes that marriage is between opposite genders while, acting as President, directing that Federal lawyers will no longer defend the "Defense of Marriage Act" in court gives a very clear picture of his position on the issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:45 PM

I think that religious bigotry does enter into the issue. I don't think Obama can be isolated from other teachings in the respective churches in America.

Then there is the matter of degree. Obama is not Fred Phelps or Terry Jones.

There is some justification for a person to say that although what he/she believes personally they are open to other points of view at least in terms of tolerance whether or not he/she agrees with them.

Also, we can allow for some evolution to take place here as well when people begin to understand that there is a physical basis for homosexuality, it is not a "choice", which is being made more clear as science explores this phenomenon.

Obama could change on this issue.

But religion does stand in the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 04:23 PM

Put it that way, and you'd hope for a crop of flowers...


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 12:25 PM

The premise of this thread is bullshit. Subsequently, what follows . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 12:01 PM

Why, badgerbaiter, don't you bother to point out that I was on that thread asking whether the characterisations were accurate as sound-bites went?

Oh, you don't do far reasonable or accurate, do you?

Oh, and has it turned out to be accurate?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 09:51 AM

...people who are "loud mouthed (sic) obnoxious, tasteless and violent". Perhaps he should look in the mirror.

As should you, oh Simple Seeker After Truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:14 AM

not "oreo".

Well, on Mudcat

that I know of,


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:06 AM

" I've learned"

"it would seem, would"


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 07:04 AM

You learn all sorts of things by reading Mudcat threads.

On another recent thread i've learned that Richard doesn't seem to care for people who are "loud mouthed (sic) obnoxious, tasteless and violent".

Perhaps he should look in the mirror.

Identikit: 10 Jan 2008 5:43 PM

Thread started by Mr. Bridge.

"Obama: coconut.   White on the inside...."    (I'm sorry I misquoted earlier.   The word he uses is "coconut", not "oreo"

But it's interesting that Barack Obama appears not to be black enough for Richard's taste.

First I thought Mr. Bridge was showing that he was a (genteel) racist.

But perhaps he is only bidding to be a "chav".

Obnoxious?    Check.    Tasteless?.    Check.

Loudmouthed?    Well on Mudcat the way to prove this, it would seem would be to start pointless, aggressive threads on extremely questionable topics.    Like this current thread, for instance. As opposed to "Cuba:   Socialist Paradise", for instance, which deals with a legitimate topic here.

At any rate, Mr. Bridge, having started 2 threads which fit the above criteria (that I know of) fits that requirement also.

Fascinating that in both threads he seeks to destroy the reputation of a black man.    Hence the suspicion of "genteel" racism.

Violent?   Who knows?   Not as far as we've seen so far.

But 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

Perhaps he's 3/4 of a ''chav".

Or perhaps he just has no sense of judgment.   He can't help expressing himself in crass and clumsy ways.

I trust he shows better judgment with his clients. Otherwise he would have none.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 06:02 PM

Is he, Amos? What I heard suggested otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 02:03 PM

Ebbie: "From Wiki: "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."

hmmmm. Describes serveral people on here, dunnit."


An expert on the subject!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 01:09 PM

No, McGrath that is not true because not all countries give civil partnerships the same rights as married couples.

Then that's where the problem lies, not in a dispute about whether the meaning of a word need to be changed or not.

A civil partnership between two men, or two women, is analogous to a marriage between a woman and a man, but the word "marriage" has till now referred to the latter and not to the former. Arguments about whether this usage should change is a linguistic argument, comparable to arguments as to whether the word "disinterested" can properly be used to mean "uninterested".

As with other linguistic arguments, the decision rests on actual usage. Once the actual usage changes, the dictionary meaning falls in line. (Look up "gay" in a modern dictionary, for example.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 12:12 PM

The point is, RIchard, that he is not being intolerant--he is supporting an egalitarian approach even though it over-rides his personal opinion. Greater tolerance hath no man. His opinions are his own business and not grounds for charges of bigotry.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 11:57 AM

I'll take the OED over wiki any day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 11:46 AM

I've often wondered what the stuffing was in a true stuffed shirt...........Apparently, and at least in this case....

Not only THIS case, Spaw - you're forgetting The Simple Seeker Truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 11:23 AM

From Wiki: "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."

hmmmm. Describes serveral people on here, dunnit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 03:42 AM

Obama's opposition to gay marriage is not susceptible of rational debate - because it is rooted in "faith".



Now consider the meaning of the word "bigot" as revealed by the Complete Oxford Dictionary.

Meaning 1b - a superstitious adherent of religion.

Meaning 2. A person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious creed, opinion, or ritual.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 02:57 AM

I think the word we are all searching for is "hypocrisy"
Pops up everywhere doesn't it?..... and this system breeds it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 01:46 AM

Awww..how simply wonderful, and simply simplistic!..and I was thinking all along that his bad days were only because his new cologne irritated him!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 01:05 AM

President Obama is an intelligent, educated, thoughtful man who is in a difficult position.

To begin with he is the first African American president. Which means some Americans, usually while swearing they aren't racist, are giving him grief because of his race.

Then, he inherited a colossal mess, most of it courtesy of his predecessor one of the biggest fools ever to waste space in the oval office.

Add to this the fact that his opposition is very well organized and very very well funded, and you see the problem.

Obama wants to close Guantanamo, and Fox News announces that the internees will be walking down Main Street. So the public sets up a howl, and Gitmo stays.

Obama knows that John Kerry lost the election because of fears and queers. So, he proceeds with caution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 11:52 PM

I think Little Hawk pretty much covered it all, as far as Obama....AND NO ONE CONTRADICTED EITHER!!!!!!!!

Now boys and girls, you've come a long way!

wink!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Crazy Horse
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 09:39 PM

Still missing you, brother. But not much. ;-) Hey! An owl just shit on my damn nose!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 09:29 PM

I've often wondered what the stuffing was in a true stuffed shirt...........Apparently, and at least in this case, obviously the stuffing is made of complete bullshit.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 07:20 PM

Because you are confusing duckdom with your own blockheadedness.

Words have definitions--they aren't there solely to satiate your perverse appetite for self-indulgent histrionics.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 07:07 PM

If it walks like a duck, why should I call it a chicken?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 05:59 PM

Why has no one here yet started a threat called:

"Obama - satanic, cold-blooded space alien secret agent from lizard-man civilization located in Orion Nebula...He is clearly intent upon the destruction of all that we love and cherish!"?

Yes, I know it's too loooooooong for a threat title. ;-) Still, I should think it would stir much useful (cough! cough!)..."discussion"...here. Probably hit at least 500 posts in a couple of days, no problem.

And such a juicy and trenchant subject it would be for the accolytes of Recreational Outrage to flock to and do heroic battle with one another over the supine body of Mr Obama!

"Bigot!" "Liberal!" "Scumbag!" "Idiot!" "Homophobe!" "Obamaphile!" Ah, yes, the joys of constructive debate in the halls of the untrammeled political mind. Let slip the Dorks of War!!! ;-D

Man, oh man...I think I'll go view the Crazy Horse webcam for an hour or two and unwind. Or maybe get really CRAZY and practice my guitar! I just can't TAKE this much significant controversy and meaningful dialogue.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 05:10 PM

"My point is that his disapproval is based solely in "faith" which does not permit rational discussion. That's bigotry."


Richard I am an atheist and do not support homosexual marriage, I always put up what I think is a reasonable case.
You have often referred to me as a "bigot".

It does seem as Brian says, that you are rather fond of the word!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:17 PM

GfS, I did not say that same-sex marriage specifically is protected under the Constitution. But the rights of minority groups are. And a law that infringes the rights of a minority group (such as LGBT) is NOT Constitutional.

Simple as that. If you think otherwise, argue it out with a constitutional attorney, not me.

End of discussion.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:14 PM

Amos: "...the very quote you offer shows Mr Obama tolerating opinions other than his own,.."

To whom are you referring?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:05 PM

...the very quote you offer shows Mr Obama tolerating opinions other than his own, which by definition is the antithesis of bigotry. Don't be asinine.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 03:03 PM

Oh, fer chrissake. He voiced a moral opinion about theproper role of marriag. It may be a misplaced opinion in some eyes, including mine, but it sure as hell is not bigotry. Having an opinion does not constitute bigotry. In fact the very q


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM

Ebbie: "Frankly, I doubt it."

Frankly, you're wrong...AGAIN!!!!!..but it sure ain't the first time!


Don: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

No elected official, including the President, can—constitutionally—give legal status to his or her religious beliefs. Thus, it does not matter what Obama's feelings about same-sex marriage are; neither he, nor the entire Congress—nor the Supreme Court—can, again, constitutionally—abridge the civil rights of any one group of people."

..and NOT to open this endless diatribe between us, homosexual marriages do NOT fall under ANY of the Constitutional..here, I'll C and P it, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The ridiculous thing is, that in the arguments AGAINST homosexual marriage, is that the opponents are using RELIGIOUS arguments, instead of Constitutionally legal arguments, as to what rights they have!..It would be almost the same as if someone was using Sharia law, to argue their slant on things. Fair enough???

That being said, the courts will decide it, not the 'Mudcatters'..and we've beaten each other up enough on this topic.
If the opponents lose, it will be because of the grounds they are basing their argument on. If the proponents win, it will be because, they knocked out the opponents premise.
As far as the freedom to do as people like, that is already screwed up LONG before it got to this issue!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 02:28 PM

First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
No elected official, including the President, can—constitutionally—give legal status to his or her religious beliefs. Thus, it does not matter what Obama's feelings about same-sex marriage are; neither he, nor the entire Congress—nor the Supreme Court—can, again, constitutionally—abridge the civil rights of any one group of people.

Obama knows this!

Unfortunately, many other elected officials, and certain (but not all) religious groups, also know this, but refuse to accept it and demand that their religious beliefs prevail, despite the Constitution. They are sufficiently short-sighted that they apparently don't realize that if the constitutional protections are ignored, that very precident could someday backlash on them!

THAT's where the problem lies.

Neither Obama nor anyone else who may disagree with the idea of same-sex marriage, for religious or any other reason, can be fairly accused of being a bigot as long as they neither directly attempt, nor advocate, the passage of unconstitutional laws to have it outlawed.

Case in point:   California's Proposition 9 is unconstitutional, notwithstanding that it got something like 54% of the popular vote. The Constitution protects individuals and groups not just from tyrannical regimes, but from the tyranny of pure democracy (majority rules) as well. The tyranny of a pure democracy can be best exemplified by a lynch mob.

No. Obama is not a "bigot."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Brian May
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 02:19 PM

Oh boy . . . do you have any other words than 'bigot' in your vocabulary?

It almost doesn't matter what the subject is . . . 'bigot' or 'bigotry' is tossed in.

It does get a tad tedious.

And yes, I'm a volunteer, so I shall exercise that and refrain from reading any more on this latest muck-slinging competition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:07 PM

My point is that his disapproval is based solely in "faith" which does not permit rational discussion. That's bigotry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:48 PM

Frankly, I doubt it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:37 PM

Ebbie: "Frankly, I don't believe for a minute that a certain Guest has ever been a counselor. Gave advice, yes."

Wrong..again....(though my education was not taken to primarily be a marriage and family counselor..but in the course of things, I was considered a damn good one!!)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:13 PM

Obama is first and foremost a politician. His speeches and his actions are not together.
His campaign speeches have been contradicted by his actions.

These contradictions can be enumerated but most people know what they are.

1. Gitmo
2. Iraq
3. Rich tax cuts
4. Nuke energy
5. Wall Street Advisors (his cabinet) and financiers (for his re-election)

There are more.

Watch for the notorious "Gang of Six" to destabilize Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 02:36 AM

In the one of the debates during the election campaign, both McCain and Obama said they opposed gay marriage. In all other aspects, Obama has strongly defended the rights of gay people.

So, is opposing gay marriage a certified litmus test for anti-gay bigotry? If we are not in lockstep with the "approved" ideology, does that mean we're bigots? I think we throw the word bigot out a bit too easily these days, and then we fail to recognize the true bigotry that is all around us. True bigotry involves hating another person or wishing to destroy or harm another - it's not simply disagreeing with the other person's thinking. Mr. Obama may disagree with the idea of gay marriage, but he expressed his disagreement with great respect.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:42 AM

Not unusually, badger-baiter, you misstate your case, possibly intentionally. What I reported was that that was a criticism being voiced of Obama during the run up to the election. And it was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 01:33 AM

Frankly, I don't believe for a minute that a certain Guest has ever been a counselor. Gave advice, yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 12:15 AM

Guest(?): "Wow. Offensive as ever "counselor"."

You think THAT was offensive????...and think what we got for a 'regime' isn't???????????????????????????????????????

Grow up!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 09:18 PM

And we certainly need to pay attention to what Richard says. After all, he's done such a magnificent job in the UK.   That must be why so many UK Mudcatters are so overjoyed with the current political situation there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:25 PM

Interesting. Richard is certainly an expert on bigotry--after all he helpfully informed us during the 2008 campaign that Obama was an "oreo".    Richard is so generous with his knowledge of this type.

It does appear that he has never liked Barack Obama, neither as candidate nor as President.

I'm sure of course that this thread has nothing to do with his antipathy for Obama.   Absolutely nothing. Of course not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama, religious bigot?
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:09 PM

Black Christians tend to be less tolerant for both homosexuality and gay marriage... I'm not defending or attacking anyone here but just offering my observations...

B~


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