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The Confederacy in Country Music (songs)

Ron Davies 28 Apr 11 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 28 Apr 11 - 08:24 AM
Ron Davies 27 Apr 11 - 10:54 PM
Rex 27 Apr 11 - 03:08 PM
Jack Campin 27 Apr 11 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,jk23 27 Apr 11 - 11:57 AM
GUEST,Jayto 27 Apr 11 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,JK23 27 Apr 11 - 09:37 AM
J-boy 27 Apr 11 - 01:27 AM
Wesley S 26 Apr 11 - 04:42 PM
Ron Davies 22 Apr 11 - 07:57 AM
Ron Davies 22 Apr 11 - 07:56 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Apr 11 - 02:11 PM
wysiwyg 18 Apr 11 - 01:57 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Apr 11 - 01:46 PM
Dad Perkins 18 Apr 11 - 12:19 PM
Ron Davies 17 Apr 11 - 01:43 PM
Dad Perkins 17 Apr 11 - 09:30 AM
GUEST 16 Apr 11 - 09:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM
Ron Davies 16 Apr 11 - 08:24 AM
Ron Davies 16 Apr 11 - 08:16 AM
Ron Davies 16 Apr 11 - 07:50 AM
Ron Davies 16 Apr 11 - 07:30 AM
Dad Perkins 15 Apr 11 - 06:41 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Apr 11 - 02:35 PM
Lonesome EJ 15 Apr 11 - 02:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Apr 11 - 01:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Apr 11 - 01:39 PM
Dad Perkins 15 Apr 11 - 01:04 PM
Lonesome EJ 15 Apr 11 - 12:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Apr 11 - 11:35 AM
pdq 15 Apr 11 - 11:27 AM
Dad Perkins 15 Apr 11 - 09:20 AM
Ron Davies 15 Apr 11 - 07:40 AM
J-boy 15 Apr 11 - 12:29 AM
Ron Davies 14 Apr 11 - 09:17 PM
Lonesome EJ 14 Apr 11 - 05:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Apr 11 - 04:39 PM
GUEST 14 Apr 11 - 04:20 PM
GUEST,browcari 14 Apr 11 - 02:42 PM
Wesley S 13 Apr 11 - 10:31 PM
Ron Davies 13 Apr 11 - 10:00 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Apr 11 - 10:00 PM
Dad Perkins 13 Apr 11 - 09:39 PM
Ron Davies 13 Apr 11 - 08:58 PM
Jack Campin 13 Apr 11 - 08:18 PM
Lonesome EJ 13 Apr 11 - 07:53 PM
Wesley S 13 Apr 11 - 07:24 PM
Bonzo3legs 13 Apr 11 - 07:21 PM
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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:05 AM

Brilliant, Alan.    That's certainly the way to increase understanding between the races--encourage as much suspicion of racism as possible.   No wonder folkies have such a great reputation as stellar thinkers.

Perhaps such ideas play a role in why the UK has never had a black PM.

Somehow your suggestion doesn't sound like the kind of game President Obama would endorse.

But have fun anyway.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 08:24 AM

How to relax your coloured friends at parties....

a fun wordsearch, who can find the most racists, in this month's Country Music people magazine.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:54 PM

Probably the reason "Are You From Dixie?" wasn't specifically mentioned was the theory was to refer to "country" songs about the Confederacy.    You'd have to stretch the definition of "country" music pretty far back in years (usually only starting in the 20's) to include the real pro-Dixie songs by and large.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Rex
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 03:08 PM

Glad to see "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" by Robbie Robertson mentioned. Liz Masterson and I do a show of the songs of the Civil War. All material is written from the time except the "Legend of the Rebel Soldier" by the Country Gentlemen as we like to point out that there are some great songs written of the war in modern times. A song of Southern pride that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned yet is "Are You From Dixie?" by Yellen and Cobb and covered in this thread:

thread.CFM?threadID=14265

Rex


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 01:52 PM

one of his first projects was "White Mansions," a concept album set in the Confederacy and featuring several stars of the biz such as Waylon, Jessi Colter, Eric Clapton

Clapton was a public supporter of the British racist politician Enoch Powell at the time. The carpetbaggers came from further away than the North.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST,jk23
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 11:57 AM

Sorry I didn't see the foregoing posts regarding "Galveston." I saw it had already been covered.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST,Jayto
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:51 AM

"Stringsinger, are you familiar with the Battle of Blair Mountain, or Matewan? That was the real south too."

Thank you for bringing this up Kendall. I am reading this thread with mixed feelings. I come from 5 generations of coal miners in West KY and I am a state certified underground miner myself. KY gets bashed from both sides over something that happened way before anybody now was born. We split down the middle and being a border state we still catch it. There are so many stereotypes going on in this thread I can't help but wonder how anybody can write anything about the subject. I am not meaning to be harsh or anything but both sides are stereotyping southerners. My family and friends do not sit around discussing when "the South will rise again". We do talk about when the economy will pick up, what places are hiring, and other social issues. Most of us have college degrees and have traveled the world over. There are some that cling to ideallistic image of the old south but for the most part people are very much rooted in modern times. Tradition does have a strong hold but even with that most realize this is the 21st century. People are people regardless of where you go. I know I am focused on trying to do the best I can for my family and like all parents worry about the future for my kids. It seems to me that some people grasp negative stereotypes just as staunchly as others hold romanticism of "the old south". I am not bashing anybody that has posted and reading this thread has not moved me to take a side. I just know how my friends and family are and therefore I know that several are wrong on both sides. Defending or bashing both have their stereotypes without really realizing it.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST,JK23
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:37 AM

A couple of googles show the Don Edwards album was released in January 2010. The song "Union Mare and Confederate Grey" (interesting hierarchical structure) was written by Paul Kennerly, an expat Merseyside advertising man who became enthrallled with American country music, particularly Waylon Jennings, eventually moving to Nashville, winning songwriter awards, etc., etc. Apparently locating himself at the nexus of the then-developing "outlaw" strain of country music, one of his first projects was "White Mansions," a concept album set in the Confederacy and featuring several stars of the biz such as Waylon, Jessi Colter, Eric Clapton, and wannabees Ozark Mountain Daredevils. Other Southern- or misunderstood-outlaw-themed albums followed ("Legend of Jesse James," "Sally Rose"), and he was central to Harris's move into the not-too-much-outlaw country field, they then marrying in 1985 (divorced 1993).

The Edwards album "American" is largely a collection of nationalistic works which packaging sleeve features the behatted East-coast folkie cum cowboy posed fiercely with guitar in front of a large American flag (always sells in this country), containing such as "Dixie/America the Beautiful," Steven Foster's "Hard Times," Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land," and "There's a Star Spangled Banner Waving Somewhere," a WW II song famously recorded by Elton Britt, among others.

The foregoing is only to illustrate what NIck Tosches, Richard Peterson, D. K. Wilgus, and others have observed: That much of what we consider to be representative of the South (or any indigenous culture for that matter) was largely co-opted, reinterpreted, and marketed by capitalist interests outside the entity (not to say Yankee Carpetbaggers), moving by processes (explicated at length elsewhere by Mudders) into the folk songbag. Thus did Foster's "My Old Kentucky Home," complete with racist explicities come from New York music hall stages to its present eminence as state song and Kentucky Derby anthem. Examples abound.

BTW, the above mentioned "Galveston" song, written I believe by the great Jimmy Webb, hit during the 1970s and is more often interpreted relative to the Vietnam conflict, rather than the much earlier Galveston Bay battle. In the '70s, we weren't that deep.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: J-boy
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 01:27 AM

That's lovely Wesley. Much wisdom in that song. I will definitely check it out.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE UNION MARE AND THE CONFEDERATE GREY
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 04:42 PM

I just stumbled across the lyrics to this song. It's on a new Don Edwards CD. I don't know the author:


THE UNION MARE AND THE CONFEDERATE GREY

Two horses were running, they pranced as they ran
They both been commanded by a cavalry man
Two horses stood grazing where their dead riders lay
The Union mare and the Confederate grey.

They nuzzled each other as they pranced and had fun
They bathed in the warm rays of the old Southern sun
No more senseless orders for them to obey
So they froliced like lovers, this mare and this grey

Now these are such sad times that we're all living in
For killing your brother is the mightiest sin
How happy we'd be if we lived for today
Like the Union mare and the Confederate grey

The Union mare and the Confederate grey


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:57 AM

"It's too easy"


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 07:56 AM

I'm sorry, Q, that you did not enjoy the discussion.    I hope that the person holding a gun to your head forcing you to read it removes the gun soon.

I found the thread quite eye-opening regarding attitudes some people have towards anything having to do with the South.

Liberals, who claim tolerance as their watchword, are sometimes not willing, it seems, to extend this tolerance to non-liberals. it's too easy for liberals to assume the worst of anyone else not labelled clearly as liberal.

The interesting thing is that non-liberals realize this--and react accordingly.   It's my theory that this accounts in large part for the election of GWB in 2004---which I would guess liberals do recognize as a disaster. Had liberals not pressed the buttons of the other side, it might well have turned out differently-- since it was so close.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 02:11 PM

Two last verses, from poems once popular.

The Conquered Banner
Father Abram Ryan
Fold that banner! softly, slowly;
Treat it gently- it is holy-
For it droops above the dead,
Touch it not- unfold it never,
Let it droop there, furled forever,
For the peoples' (i>hopes are dead!

Fold it Carefully
Sir Henry Houghton, Bart.,
(A reply to "The Conquered Banner)"

Furl that banner, sadly, slowly,
Treat it gently, for 'tis holy:
'Till that day- yes, furl it sadly,
Then once more unfurl it gladly-
Conquered Banner- keep it still!

Allan's Lonestar Ballads.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 01:57 PM

Si Kahn, "Gone, Gonna Rise Again"

~Susan


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 01:46 PM

The early posts by Ron Davies and Dad Perkins were both pertinent and thought-provoking, but later posts devolved into attacks and repetition, thus should have moved to pm and/or email, hence my response to both- foodlededoop.

Jim Cullen's book sounds worth reading.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 12:19 PM

Thanks!


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 01:43 PM

We can certainly start there.   And I have stated the dying man may possibly be longing for a mythical pre-Civil War South.

But it is totally unclear if the singer feels the same way.


It seems clear to me he sings "Dixie" to comfort the old man.   Nothing more is established.    Therefore it is not reasonable to include this song as one which longs for the pre-Civil War South--which included slavery, of course.

And as i said, my black friend at work feels the same as I do.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 09:30 AM

@Ron Davies

Okay Ron. This MAY clear up some ambiguity about where I'm coming from.
When I've been talking about mourning the loss of the Old South, I'm not explicitly talking about the loss of the Civil War. I'm referring to the sentiment that the pre-industrial agrarian culture of the South, "way down yonder in the land of cotton," where " OLD TIMES there ain't near as rotten..." is a much used idea about the Old South. The word Dixie refers to the Old South. Can we agree on that? That the word refers to a place and a 'time'? Dixie doesn't refer to Atlanta in 2011, it refers to the idea of the South as opposed to the North in 'The War of Northern Agression' as the devotees of the Lost Cause movement would have it. I have listened to the song. I think its a great song. And I think the character of the old man is EXPLICITLY longing for a place and time away from the impersonal urban chaos that has, presumably, led to his demise.


Can we start there and try to talk about THIS SONG?


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:34 PM

Mr. Perkins,

You are very welcome! I just happened upon that in my quest for research.

I would be extremely interested in discussing this topic with you further. Would you be willing to email me? brown143@purdue.edu

I'm still having a heck of a time finding actual articles written on this topic. But I did happen upon another book. It is Jim Cullen's "The Civil War in Popular Culture" (1995). The chapter that deals with music is chapter 4 entitled "Reconstructing Dixie--Confederate Mythology in Rock 'n' Roll." Hope this is of some help!


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM

Foodlededoop


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 08:24 AM

By the way, my favorite political analyst is of course Shania Twain.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 08:16 AM

Interesting that you in fact obviously were not seeking various perspectives on the topic, just uncritical applause for your shaky (to say the least) theory.   There were a lot of songs full of nostalgia for the Old South, and full of pernicious stereotypes.   But they were almost entirely written in the 19th century and into the 1920's.   "Country music" is usually considered to only have started in the 1920's.    "I Sang Dixie" was written long after the '20's.

Ironically, I actually agreed with you about the Coe song, just not this one. But you must be related to Gen. Grant--you only believe in unconditional surrender.

You may--or may not---be interested to know that I talked to a black friend of mine at work about the burning issue of whether "I Sang Dixie" is a racist song. Now admittedly he is a very sensible individual (i.e.agrees with me on a whole host of issues--you know that's the definition of "reasonable" I suspect.)    We were both strong supporters of Obama long before he got the nomination, and we were annoyed at Hillary's tactics.   We both feel the Left should stop whining about what President Obama has done or not done.   We feel NATO (and the US) should finish the job of toppling Gadhafi quickly, with everything short of ground troops.   Also that Trump typecasting himself as a "birther" will destroy his possible candidacy--in a very satisfying way.   Etc.

In fact the vast majority of my co-workers are black, including the 3 on my level.   And we get along just great, helping each other out, joshing etc,   I have sung "My Prayer" (Platters) to one of the women and "Goodnight, Sweetheart" (Spaniels) to another, and I and a friend write parodies and sing them at retirement celebrations..

At any rate, I did not tell the co-worker in question my view on "I Sang Dixie", just gave him the lyrics of the song to read.    He pronounced it non-racist.   When I told him certain brilliant commentators on the Net claimed it was racist, his response was:   "You're serious?"

Face it, people are just people. If you treat them right everything is OK. And if they are sensible, they do not go looking for imaginary threats. There are enough real problems without manufacturing artificial ones.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 07:50 AM

stretching facts to fit the theory





"losing my cool earlier"

OK, fine.    I suppose that means I can't blast you out of the water.   Pity. I had a post all ready.    And the worst name-calling was "scholar".

Interesting you have your own language of vituperation.   "you mope".   I deduce this is not a compliment.

Far be it from me to argue with a "scholar" who has made up his mind.

Nonetheless, once more into the breach, dear friends.

For the n'th time, in "I Sang Dixie" the narrator is mourning the loss of a man dying on an LA street--far from home--probably of alcohol poisoning.    Perhaps you might consider actually listening to the song.

The dying man may or may not be a racist, longing for the good old days of the South (and slavery). This is unclear. He misses the South.   This is clear.   The narrator's view on the Old South is even less clear. He sings "Dixie"--the implication is that he does so to comfort a dying man.   It is not proof positive he longs for the good old days of the Old South.

It is implied that the narrator is also from the South, The dying man tells him to "run back home" but it is not at all clear what the narrator will actually do except mourn the loss of his friend.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the concept of mourning for the loss of a friend.



So sorry this does not fit your theory.   But feel free to make any assumptions you want to squeeze the song into the theory,    Somehow it seems I may not have to give you permission to do so.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 07:30 AM

Mr. Perkins:

You've never used the word "racism."    In the words of my favorite political analyst:   "That don't impress me much."

You've just said you can't say the word "Dixie" , let alone make a melodic/lyrical reference to to it without intentionally calling up concepts of the Old South.    And that "I Sang Dixie" is mourning the good old days of the Old South. But that's not endorsing racism.    Endorsing slavery, perhaps, but not racism.




More later.


Re: the song "Galveston":    Wiki is not always reliable but rather good on songs.   Wiki entry says Jimmy Webb says he in fact had the Spanish-American War in mind. This would fit with "cannons".    In the Vietnam War they would probably not have spoken of cannons.    It would also not have been the Civil War.   The singer would not be dreaming of Galveston if he was already there.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 06:41 PM

@ Guestbrown.cari

Thank you thank you thank you for the heads up on that book. We've got it at the University Library and I'm going down there post haste to pick it up. Let me know if you'd like to compare notes on our respective projects. Thanks again!


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 02:35 PM

EJ, Vietnam is probably right.
Streets of LA- and elsewhere for years after Vietnam, 'bush vets', traumatized veterans, were scattered in the forests of Hawai'i, and I would guess in many cities on the mainland.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 02:01 PM

Good points. Campbell didn't write the song, but Jim Webb, who did, may have been a Texan. The protagonist in the song seems to be singing about Galveston from some other battlefield, though.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 01:52 PM

If not clear from the not proofed post above, the battle took place on January 1, 1863.

Confederate 'ironclads' is a misnomer; the river steamers used by Magruder were clad with cotton bales, and gained the name 'cottonclads'. A land force joined in the re-taking of Galveston.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 01:39 PM

Well-known to Texans is the Battle of Galveston. Some can sing fragments of the songs written about it. I would guess that one of more of these songs were known to Glen Campbell.

Commemoration events took place in Galveston in January of this year. It was well-attended by Civil War buffs, and a re-enactment took place, as well as tours of the harbor. A guided toor of
In 1862, Commodore Renshaw and a squadron of 8 yankee ships blockaded the Texas coast, and demanded surrender of Confederate forces at Galveston.
On January 1, Confederate ironclads attacked from the rear, and following the battle, Confederate general Magruder retook Galveston, and the Confererate port remained under Confederate control for the remainder of the war.

A guided tour will visit the cemetary and the graves of Magruder and other veterans.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 01:04 PM

Forgive me for losing my cool earlier. I'm just going to post the lyrics to the song so that everyone has a reference.

In my view you cannot say the word Dixie, let alone make a melodic/lyrical reference to it without intentionally calling up conceptions of "The Old South", and "Southerness". I will be happy to elaborate on those concepts if need be. Additionally, the narrative of the song is highly suggestive of Civil War balladry in which a dying soldier is given space to utter his last words, and relates his love of home and family to a commrade (Think: Just as the Sun Went Down, Brother Greene etc.) These sentimentalist tropes were used extensively during the war and are an outgrowth of 19th century conceptions of the proper stages of death, dying, and grieving.

Just for the record. I've never used the word racism once in all of these threads because i'm not interested in moral valuations right now. While I'm glad of the spirited debate that has occured as a result of my original post, and find it to be very very interesting and indicative of some important truths about where we as a nation stand on our conceptions about the war, I perasonally have been mostly interested in comparing narrative structures of songs and trying to suggest some historical concepts about the developement of Country music.

Here's the song currently in question.


I sang Dixie as he died
The people just walked on by as I cried
The bottle had robbed him of all his rebel pride
So I sang Dixie as he died

He said way down yonder in the land of cotton
Old times there ain't near as rotten as they are
On this damned old L.A. street
Then he drew a dying breath
And laid his head against my chest
Please Lord take his soul back home to Dixie

Chorus

He said listen to me son while you still can
Run back home to that Southern land
Don't you see what life here has done to me?
Then he closed those old blue eyes
And fell limp against my side
No more pain, now he's safe back home in Dixie

Chorus:

I sang Dixie as he died
The people just walked on by as I cried
The bottle had robbed him of all his rebel pride
So I sang Dixie as he died


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 12:55 PM

Amazing that two Southern cities, Atlanta GA and Houston TX are rated as the best large cities for Black folks to live.

By contrast, Black-dominated parts of New York, New Jersey, Philidelphia and Chicago are Hell. Go figure.


Randy Newman pretty much had it right in Rednecks, pdq. "Free to be put in a cage in Harlem in New York City."


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 11:35 AM

I sang Dixie about "the Old South"?

Surely it's much more about someone far from home and dying in exile - sort of Southern equivalent of Spancil Hill or The Old Bog Road.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: pdq
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 11:27 AM

Amazing that two Southern cities, Atlanta GA and Houston TX are rated as the best large cities for Black folks to live.

By contrast, Black-dominated parts of New York, New Jersey, Philidelphia and Chicago are Hell. Go figure.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 09:20 AM

@ Ron Davies.

I'd be dissapointed in a grown up who couldn't recognize or admit that Yoakam's song is mourning the good old days of the Old South. If you need to equate that to racism, be my guest. It's early and I'm feeling a little cranky, but I don't mind telling you that your post fails to show any sign of intelligent or critical reasoning. Of course the song is about the Old South you mope.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 07:40 AM

I don't think we are arguing that point.

Only whether "country music" reflects longing for the Confederacy, which of course would include slavery.

I would say that Dad Perkins' citation of Coe's song does fit.    Coe is known to be a racist (only really good song he ever did in my opinion is "You Never Called Me By My Name", which of course Steve Goodman wrote.)

For the rest of the song candidates, I think we are stretching to make the facts fit the theory.    Not exactly good scientific method.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: J-boy
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 12:29 AM

It's all too easy to forget that the Confederacy was built upon the slavery of our fellow human beings. The Civil War would never have happened if not for that fact. The South considered blacks to be no more than farm equipmemt or servants. Why do we still argue this point 150 years later?


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 09:17 PM

Supposedly "Galveston" was about a soldier in Vietnam dreaming of home.    Don't know where I heard that, though.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 05:35 PM

How about Glen Campbell's Galveston? Though not specifically mentioning the civil war or the confederacy, the fact that the singer is from Galveston Texas, and is watching "the cannons flashing" heavily implies both.

Galveston, oh Galveston, I still hear your sea winds blowin'
I still see her dark eyes glowin'
She was 21 when I left Galveston

Galveston, oh Galveston, I still hear your sea waves crashing
While I watch the cannons flashing
I clean my gun and dream of Galveston

I still see her standing by the water
Standing there lookin' out to sea
And is she waiting there for me?
On the beach where we used to run

Galveston, oh Galveston, I am so afraid of dying
Before I dry the tears she's crying
Before I watch your sea birds flying in the sun
At Galveston, at Galveston


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 04:39 PM

"Maryland, My Maryland" appears in Allan's Lone Star Ballads, A Collection of Southern Patriotic Songs Made During Confederate Times, Burt Franklin, New York, 1874 (reprint 1970).
This collection, made just after the War, is an excellent survey of the Confederate songs. It covers the western contingents, e. g. Hood's Texas Brigade, Song of the Texas Rangers, The Santa Fe Volunteer, and others.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 04:20 PM

From the singing of the a contemporary "bluegrass" group: Last Letter Home.

I can hear the cannons thundering all night,
And I cannot help but wonder why's the rebel cause so right?
And the morphine seems to do no good at all.
And I would run all the way if I would not fall.

I joined the rebel cavalry for fun.
Must have rode a thousand horses, always had a way with a gun.
Now I'm among the horseless riders lying still.
Covered up by the cause on Hero's Hill.

CHO:
And I dream of a rose in a Spainish garden,
And I kiss you as I place it in your hair,
And if I ever find my feet again I will;
I will run all the way just meet you there.

Through the day I watch them Southern Boys go down,
And they lay like Georgia peaches, bruised and broken on the ground.
Through the night I wonder if it was worth the pain.
And I cry out, not revenge, but I call your name.

CHO:


For even more ambivalence, try the Maryland State song. It was written during the Civil War (by a former Marylander living, I believe in Tennesse). In the first verse, the despot is the US Government and the "patriotic gore" is the blood of those who rioted against Union troops coming into Baltimore. The final verse is the icing on the cake. I don't know about the other references made in the song. It is just a bizarre lyric to carry into the 21st Century.

Maryland was a divided state at the start of the war, quite likely to consider secession. For practical reasons, Lincoln could not allow that to happen. It was Maryland where the writ of Habeas Corpus was abandoned and politicians were locked up for their views. Many Marylanders were not sympathetic to the Southern Cause.

The despot's heel is on thy shore,
Maryland my Maryland!
His torch is at thy temple door,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Avenge the patriotic gore
That flecked the streets of Baltimore,
And be the battle queen of yore,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Hark to an exiled son's appeal,
Maryland! My Maryland!
My Mother State! to thee I kneel,
Maryland! My Maryland!
For life or death, for woe or weal,
Thy peerless chivalry reveal,
And gird thy beauteous limbs with steel,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Thou wilt not cower in the dust,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Thy beaming sword shall never rust,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Remember Carroll's sacred trust,
Remember Howard's warlike thrust,-
And all thy slumberers with the just,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Come! 'tis the red dawn of the day,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Come with thy panoplied array,
Maryland! My Maryland!
With Ringgold's spirit for the fray,
With Watson's blood at Monterey,
With fearless Lowe and dashing May,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Come! for thy shield is bright and strong,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Come! for thy dalliance does thee wrong,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Come to thine own anointed throng,
Stalking with Liberty along,
And sing thy dauntless slogan song,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Dear Mother! burst the tyrant's chain,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Virginia should not call in vain,
Maryland! My Maryland!
She meets her sisters on the plain-
Sic semper! 'tis the proud refrain
That baffles minions back amain,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Arise in majesty again,
Maryland! My Maryland!


I see the blush upon thy cheek,
Maryland! My Maryland!
For thou wast ever bravely meek,
Maryland! My Maryland!
But lo! there surges forth a shriek,
From hill to hill, from creek to creek,
Potomac calls to Chesapeake,
Maryland! My Maryland!

Thou wilt not yield the Vandal toll,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Thou wilt not crook to his control,
Maryland! My Maryland!
Better the fire upon thee roll,
Better the shot, the blade, the bowl,
Than crucifixion of the Soul,
Maryland! My Maryland!

I hear the distant thunder-hum,
Maryland! My Maryland!
The Old Line bugle, fife, and drum,
Maryland! My Maryland!
She is not dead, nor deaf, nor dumb-
Huzza! She spurns the Northern scum!
She breathes! She burns! She'll come! She'll come!
Maryland! My Maryland!

Roger in Baltimore (well, formerly of Baltimore and now in Virginia).


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: GUEST,browcari
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 02:42 PM

I'm actually writing a paper right now on the juxtaposition between the sentiment of the Confederacy/the "Lost Cause" and the patriotism that we find in country music today. Also, there are a lot of interesting names for bands. Dixie Chicks, Lady Antebellum, Confederate Railroad, etc. How can these names and the music they produce show the lingering sentiment of the Lost Cause and the collective memory that is still shared by those that identify with the South?

There are many examples of songs that portray a loss. Loss of the South--now, as many of you have argued, this could be a loss of life, or a loss of a cause. There is a very real Confederate presence in a lot of country and folk music.

You should look at a book I found. Its called, "Neo-Confederacy" by Euan Hague. Chapter 9 deals with the Confederacy in contemporary music. You can find it on Google books and read an excerpt of Ch. 9.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 10:31 PM

"Still, I could use some more modern country songs that mourn the loss of the war".

I'm just not all that sure you're going to find any. I've not run across any. Pride in the south yes. But morning that the South lost the war? None come to mind.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 10:00 PM

As I said earlier, "I Sang Dixie", the narrator mourns the loss of a man.    The narrator himself sings "Dixie"for the dying man but unless singing a song is proof of racism, it does not mean he himself endorses any nostalgia for the Old South.

I would be disappointed in a scholar who alleged that it did.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 10:00 PM

Worth a look and a thought-

A sort of "Confederate Veterans Wall"

http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/confederaterebels/memoriam.html


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Dad Perkins
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 09:39 PM

Gang this Thread has been fascinating in its development. Y'all should read back and take a broad look at what's been covered.

Regarding my original question you might like to know the Country Music songs that I've latched onto which refer to concepts of 'Southerness' that both resemble some of the Sentimental ballads of the Civil War, and in some way mourn the loss of Southern values as put forth by the Lost Cause movement:

I Sang Dixie: Yoakam
I Still Sing the Old Songs: DAC
Dixie You're Done: Waylon

I'm also going to discuss Don William's Good Ol' Boys Like Me? as an ameliorative meditation on...well....What do you do with good ol' boys like me?

Still, I could use some more modern country songs that mourn the loss of the war

Help me Obe Wan. You're my only hope.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 08:58 PM

The earlier quote was :"Most of the bluegrass songwriting about the Civil War is sentimental drivel."

Still not acceptable.

Some now doubt is.   Some is definitely not.

Some: fine

Most: not fine

And "most", as I said, is a smear.

No surprise the poster refuses to acknowledge it.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 08:18 PM

even Northerners romanticize the notion of the Confederacy and the proud rebel soldier

In much the same way as the winning side romanticized the Jacobites.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 07:53 PM

Well glueman, Yanks are a curiosity in Alabama just like they are in Northern England, so that part would be consistent.


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 07:24 PM

Q - I'm on the way over for dinner. Is there anything I should bring with me? Hog jowls? Turnip greens?


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Subject: RE: the Confederacy in Country Music
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 07:21 PM

Any chance you would just go away?

Well, as I'm currently in the north of Argentina you could say I am "away"!!!!!


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