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BS: Got Science?

saulgoldie 05 Mar 11 - 04:51 PM
TIA 05 Mar 11 - 05:03 PM
bobad 05 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Mar 11 - 05:34 PM
Wesley S 05 Mar 11 - 06:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Mar 11 - 06:13 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 Mar 11 - 06:40 PM
Rapparee 05 Mar 11 - 09:58 PM
gnu 06 Mar 11 - 10:25 AM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 06 Mar 11 - 10:35 AM
Mrrzy 06 Mar 11 - 01:01 PM
Little Hawk 06 Mar 11 - 01:24 PM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Mar 11 - 05:50 PM
Little Hawk 06 Mar 11 - 05:57 PM
gnu 06 Mar 11 - 06:08 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 11 - 06:27 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 06:41 PM
wysiwyg 06 Mar 11 - 07:16 PM
Little Hawk 06 Mar 11 - 07:18 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 11 - 07:36 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 07:49 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 11 - 07:49 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 07:54 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 11 - 07:55 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 11 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,999 06 Mar 11 - 08:33 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 08:34 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 08:35 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 11 - 08:38 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 08:42 PM
GUEST,999 06 Mar 11 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,Jon 06 Mar 11 - 08:55 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 11 - 08:56 PM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Mar 11 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,999 06 Mar 11 - 09:32 PM
Little Hawk 06 Mar 11 - 09:47 PM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 07 Mar 11 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,TIA 07 Mar 11 - 04:09 PM
Ed T 07 Mar 11 - 05:59 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Mar 11 - 05:59 PM
GUEST,Jon 07 Mar 11 - 06:26 PM
The Fooles Troupe 07 Mar 11 - 06:32 PM
GUEST,Jon 07 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Mar 11 - 07:33 PM
GUEST,Jon 07 Mar 11 - 07:44 PM
The Fooles Troupe 07 Mar 11 - 08:27 PM
GUEST,Jon 07 Mar 11 - 08:31 PM
The Fooles Troupe 07 Mar 11 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,Jon 07 Mar 11 - 08:44 PM
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Subject: BS: Got Science?
From: saulgoldie
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 04:51 PM

More fact:
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/thu-march-3-2011-mark-w--moffett


Go to 14:50 and watch from there, not that Colbert is that hard to watch, anyway. (The bit about Ben & Jerry & Jimmy and Stephen is really cute. Perhaps a little too sweet for diabetics, but...)

The bee die-off is s-c-i-e-n-c-e. One does not "believe" in science as one "believes" in the tooth fairy, unicorns, or the flying spagetti monster. One "accepts" science, because it is about a rigorous process of hypothesis, hypothesis testing, and conclusion based on the process that lead to reproducable events based on that conclusion. "Science" (in quotes) is when one *starts out* with the *conclusion* and "finds 'facts'" to support that preconceived conclusion. Surprise, surprise! I was "right" all along! NOT science.

Science does not explain everything in the universe. That is an ongoing process. But it explains a lot of things things pretty well in terms of the available evidence.

Don't like science? Then don't partake in any of the things that science has given us. Start right here, and ditch your computer. Stop listening to music on your CD or MP3 player. Stop accepting any benefits of modern medicine. Basically, refuse to partake in anything that humans have developed in the last 20,000 years; go back to the stone age.

Global climate change due to human activity is also science. I double-dog dare anyone to find a *genuine* study that was not funded by a special interest that followed true scientific principles that contradicts this.

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: TIA
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:03 PM

"Science does not explain everything in the universe."...yet.

It is the only way that the explanation for everything in the {Natural} Universe *can* be found.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: bobad
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:23 PM

This is all pretty much self-evident, except for those who do not understand science.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 05:34 PM

Two causes for global warming-
1- Periodic cycles of warming and cooling are well-known in geologic history.

2- Human activity since the Industrial Revolution has contributed pollutants and gases increasingly to the record, preserved in ice cores taken in both the Arctic and Antarctic locations.
Some argue (with less and less basis as time goes on) that the latter is not yet a contributor to global warming- but the presence of the pollutants is enough to cause serious misgivings about our lack of control over what we put into the environment.

Science has contributed immeasurably to our advances - but some of the byproducts of those advances are deleterious to the environment and must be considered and controlled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:06 PM

If the neo-cons have their way science will be on the endangered species list. It's so elitist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:13 PM

Oh, dear! Another meaningless comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:40 PM

Scientists Prove Jesus Walked with Dinosaurs

Sigh ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 09:58 PM

One MUST accept the FSM, and I hope that He touches you with His noodley goodness. He has even been photographed by genuine astronomers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:25 AM

Foolestroupe... that is hilarious!


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:35 AM

an obvious mickey take,foolestroupe....but since you mentioned dinosaurs,perhaps you could tell us what the latest evo take is on the blood residue taken from the 65 million yr old dinos?

maybe we should restart the YEC thread!


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 01:01 PM

That's why I won't say people don't believe in evolution, I say they deny it.

I laughed so hard a noodle came out my nose the other day watching Family Guy do their take-off on North By Northwest, and when Mel Gibson steps off Mount Rushmore and falls to his death, and Lois asked why he just stepped off, and Peter answers...

Silly, Christians don't believe in gravity!


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 01:24 PM

Most people believe in whatever they want to believe in and they disbelieve in whatever they want to disbelieve in, usually with no actual work or investigation of any kind at all, but merely by a brief jerk of the knee. ;-) The beliefs they have were normally acquired from their parents, their society, their teachers, their peer group, the books they're read, and whatever else they've been exposed to in their very brief sojourn upon this Earth.

Like parrots, they are terrific at repeating what others have told them.

And they will yammer at you all day long about it, because they'd like you to believe the same things they do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:50 PM

Little Hawk

There was a theory advanced years ago in Byte Magazine about which text editor was the best. It was called "The little baby yellow duck syndrome" - the first one you see is what you judge all other by and must be the best.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 05:57 PM

Yes... ;-) Nothing like first impressions, is there? People will defend the familiar against the unfamiliar with all the fury of a mother bear defending its cubs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:08 PM

Indeed LH. All the little ducks in a row.

Thank goodness for odd ducks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:27 PM

Certainly didn't work with text editors for me. Went through several including once getting confused trying to use Ed, then on PC notepad with its wonderful (then) 64K limit, etc. before finding Kate. nor religion as I went through athiesm (seemingly supported by science which itself can becomes a religion) as a religion before Christianity.

As for science, I don't dislike it but I believe it is rather limited in confining and attempting to explain everything purely from a physical world.

I find one of the more amusing aspects with the science and people I know in the real world is I'm pretty sure a number of them would not even get through O levels in science yet they all can trot out the "facts" about evolution and the "facts" about about the big bang with "perfect understanding".

Far more interesting is my mate who is a phd microbiologist. He is a true scientist, a type that rather than regurgitate "facts" can break down complicated subjects into things easy to understand and also a type that questions. While not a Christian or other faith, he is also at least open (actually on balance, he thinks there is) to there being a something else. I wish I knew more like him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:41 PM

So give us some of your "facts" about your "something else," Jon. In other words, why do you think it's so clever to use quotes like that when you're actually quoting your own straw men? Come on, name me a scientist who ever said that he could give you the facts about the Big Bang with perfect understanding. Failing that, stop making things up as you go along.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:16 PM

I laughed so hard a noodle came out my nose the other day The FSM must have been born this way (of virgin nose), then? ;~)

Just kidding Mrr.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:18 PM

How do you provide "facts" about the many non-physical aspects of life which can be certainly be experienced and are experienced by everybody at one time or another, but which cannot be measured, quantified, photographed, recorded, weighed, divided, reproduced in a lab or in any other way subjected to outward observation?

No one can give us facts about that stuff, they can only tell us what they've experienced, and we can tell them about what we've experienced. If we have a modicum of respect for one another, we can learn something from those things too, and they are the "something else" that Jon was referring to.

Science deals with the objective. It does not deal with the subjective. Life is made up of both the objective and the subjective, and they are both absolutely vital aspects of life. The objective world has given us all the outward phenomena of life. The subjective has given us consciousness on all its various levels, and without consciousness we would have no appreciation of any of the objective stuff around us nor would we ever have come up with science, religion, philosophy, art, politics, economics, and all the other interesting stuff we do...nor would we be aware of a single fact.

Without the subjective, you wouldn't even be "you", because you would have no conscious sense of self whatsoever. You'd be an inert lump that had no facts at its disposal.

No one can measure or quantify your sense of self or duplicate it, but it's real, and it makes you who you are. That is the subjective working powerfully in your consciousness. It is beyond the reach of science to explain it, because it's not objective at all...it's subjective.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:36 PM

Thanks LH.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:49 PM

Jon was tendentiously belittling science, as is usual when a person of religion gets a bee in his bonnet about scientists supposedly getting a bit above themselves. I asked him to name any scientist who claimed he could explain the Big Bang with perfect understanding, as Jon accuses. I'm still waiting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:49 PM

Come on, name me a scientist who ever said that he could give you the facts about the Big Bang with perfect understanding. Failing that, stop making things up as you go along.

Steve, I'm weary of your distortions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:54 PM

Distortion? This is what you said:
I'm pretty sure a number of them would not even get through O levels in science yet they all can trot out the "facts" about evolution and the "facts" about about the big bang with "perfect understanding".

So come on, Jon. It's not me distorting, it's you wriggling. Either retract your silly statement or name names.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 07:55 PM

Here goes Steve. I said.

I find one of the more amusing aspects with the science and people I know in the real world is I'm pretty sure a number of them would not even get through O levels in science yet they all can trot out the "facts" about evolution and the "facts" about about the big bang with "perfect understanding".

I think it pretty clear from that that the people I am referring to are not scientists (but are believers in science).

Yet you repeat "I asked him to name any scientist who claimed he could explain the Big Bang with perfect understanding, as Jon accuses."

Once more and for the last time here,I repeat , Steve I grow weary of your distortions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:17 PM

I find one of the more amusing aspects with the science and people I know in the real world is I'm pretty sure a number of them would not even get through O levels in science yet they all can trot out...

So everyone you know can trot out, etc., eh, Jon? Let's face it. You made a silly, throwaway remark in a thread in which you thought no-one was listening. You're prejudiced against science, as your ill-judged initial remarks betray. That's fine by me. You've made it clear where you stand, even through the fog of your remarks in the thread so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:24 PM

Steve, now you need a change of tack too try to pick on something else I see... But I remain weary of your distortions.

I'll ignore you from now on;.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:33 PM

Do you two want to be alone?


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:34 PM

That's fine. I'll remember you in my prayers. Maybe He'll make you more careful apropos of how you express things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:35 PM

Not you, one butty short of a grand.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:38 PM

I'll pray too. Maybe He will open your eyes and heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:42 PM

That's all I bloody need. Open-heart surgery from a non-existent bloke with a magic scalpel. I'll check my life insurance first if you don't mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:53 PM

So, uh, how's Manchester United doing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:55 PM

Lost 3-1 to Liverpool, 999


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:56 PM

Liverpool 3 Man United 1. Frankly, I am over the moon. I think there may actually be a God. No, hang on. Don't just say God, say Dalglish...


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:59 PM

I don't have a problem with God - but many of his Fan Clubs can be real annoying ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 09:32 PM

Thank you Jon and Steve--and Foolestroupe for the chuckle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 09:47 PM

Why do I keep hearing the theme music from "Rawhide" thundering in my head? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 01:45 PM

mrrzy-i dont follow"family guy".is there a peter on there,or was the ref to me.
all the same i am still interested to learn what the latest evo take is on the dino blood residues-it is a scientific enquiry is it not?.

i am impressed once more by jons restraint and LH fair play and level head,though not sharing my beliefs-thoughtful contributions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:09 PM

Pete,

The latest (well reasonably latest) scientific "take" is here:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur.html?c=y&page=1

You will notice that the scientist herself is a Christian who gets really pissed when people misuse her findings.

The bones in which the proteins were found come from the Hell Creek Formation (and are therefore at least as old as that formation...can't deposit them in a Formation that doesn't exist yet), which is overlain by the iridium-enriched "impact bed"; note that the impact bed is therefore necessarily younger. Can't deposit the top one first.

The source of the impact bed (overlying Hell Creek, and worldwide) is the Chixculub crater which has been K-Ar dated as 65.07 +/- 0.1 million years old (Swisher et al., 1992). This date is quite close to independant ages for the K-T boundary in North America (65.00+/- 0.04 Ma by Gradstein et al. (1995:102) and 65.4 +/- 0.1 Ma by Obradovich (1993)).

So if you are to claim that the osteocalcin and heme residues indicate a young earth, your argument is really with the numerous Chixculub and/or K-T dates.

Best,

Tim


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:59 PM

defies science


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:59 PM

How impressed were you by his ignorant, tendentious anti-science bullshit, Pete? Quite a lot, I unscientifically predict!


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 06:26 PM

Matthew 5:11

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 06:32 PM

Science and Compassion of others is of Satan


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM

?


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 07:33 PM

I'll get round to the persecution later. Give me time, that's all. But be very afraid, for nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 07:44 PM

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me."

I'll get round to the persecution later


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 08:27 PM

"nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition"

... or The Comfy Chair!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 08:31 PM

?


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Subject: Lyr Add: Deteriorata! (fluke of the universe)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 08:40 PM

The following poem was not found in an old Baltimore church:

Introduction

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.....
Deteriorata! Deteriorata!

Go placidly
Amid the noise and waste.
And remember what comfort there may be
In owning a piece thereof.

Avoid quiet and passive persons
Unless you are in need of sleep.

Ro-tate your tires.

Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself
And heed well their advice,
Even though they be turkeys.

Know what to kiss.....and when!

Consider that two wrongs never make a right
But that THREE.........do.

Wherever possible, put people on hold.

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer main-te-nance.

Chorus

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Remember the Pueblo.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mu-ti-late.

Know yourself.
If you need help, call the FBI.

Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you.
That lemon on your left, for instance.

Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.

Fall not in love therefore;
It will stick to your face.

Gracefully surrender the things of youth:
The birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan
And let not the sands of time
Get in your lunch.

Hire people with hooks.

For a good time call 606-4311;
Ask for "Ken."

Take heart amid the deepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.

And reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.

Chorus

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god
Whatever you conceive him to be---
Hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.

With all its hopes, dreams, promises and urban renewal
The world continues to deteriorate.

GIVE UP!

Reprise

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Performed by National Lampoon on "National Lampoon Radio Dinner," a 1972 recording by Blue Thumb Records. Lyrics by Tony Hendra.


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Subject: RE: BS: Got Science?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 08:44 PM

Foolestroupe: The following was found on the Internet.

http://www.flamewarriors.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm


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