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BS: Disaster for the Democrats?

Lonesome EJ 03 Nov 10 - 02:30 PM
GUEST,Bobert at the library 03 Nov 10 - 03:43 PM
akenaton 03 Nov 10 - 04:20 PM
akenaton 03 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM
kendall 03 Nov 10 - 04:31 PM
Bill D 03 Nov 10 - 06:15 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 03 Nov 10 - 08:19 PM
Bill D 03 Nov 10 - 08:29 PM
Ron Davies 03 Nov 10 - 08:56 PM
Little Hawk 03 Nov 10 - 09:30 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Nov 10 - 09:37 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Nov 10 - 09:39 PM
GUEST,Mr G. 03 Nov 10 - 10:14 PM
Amos 03 Nov 10 - 11:32 PM
J-boy 04 Nov 10 - 12:02 AM
DougR 04 Nov 10 - 01:30 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Nov 10 - 03:29 AM
Richard Bridge 04 Nov 10 - 04:44 AM
The Fooles Troupe 04 Nov 10 - 07:19 AM
Ron Davies 04 Nov 10 - 08:32 AM
olddude 04 Nov 10 - 09:21 AM
olddude 04 Nov 10 - 09:40 AM
Little Hawk 04 Nov 10 - 10:48 AM
Little Hawk 04 Nov 10 - 11:04 AM
olddude 04 Nov 10 - 11:43 AM
Little Hawk 04 Nov 10 - 12:12 PM
Jack the Sailor 04 Nov 10 - 12:21 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Nov 10 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Nov 10 - 12:50 PM
beardedbruce 04 Nov 10 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Nov 10 - 01:00 PM
Little Hawk 04 Nov 10 - 01:06 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Nov 10 - 01:10 PM
Little Hawk 04 Nov 10 - 01:11 PM
Little Hawk 04 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM
Jack the Sailor 04 Nov 10 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Nov 10 - 01:56 PM
Jack the Sailor 04 Nov 10 - 01:58 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Nov 10 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Nov 10 - 02:01 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Nov 10 - 02:04 PM
Jack the Sailor 04 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 Nov 10 - 02:22 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Nov 10 - 02:27 PM
GUEST 04 Nov 10 - 02:34 PM
Jack the Sailor 04 Nov 10 - 02:46 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Nov 10 - 02:46 PM
Jack the Sailor 04 Nov 10 - 02:55 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Nov 10 - 03:11 PM
Genie 04 Nov 10 - 03:26 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 02:30 PM

"you say you want a revolution? We'd all love to see the plan"...Lennon


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Bobert at the library
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 03:43 PM

Touchy little sumabichin' library computer...

Just two thoughts...

First, this is the second election in 10 years that the Republican appointed Supreme Courth has trumped... But more importantly than stolen elections (since we can't do anything about them right now) is...

...my second point which is that the Republican are going to have to end their two year long game of "Rope-a-Dope" with the American people... I'm going to realy enjoy the Repubs having to stand behind ***real*** policy positions other than "we wnat our country back"... Yeah, being a policy wonk, a student of politics, economics and history this is going to be very interesting not only in Washington but here in Mudville....

So, Repubs... Your ideas, por favor???

Oh, I'm going to love this...

(That makes you sound like an elitists, Boberdz...)

Whatever???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:20 PM

Lennon?....did you mean Lenin?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM

Best line of the day from Sarah

"We can see 2012 from our house"

Wonder if the Dems think thats as funny as the "Russia" gag. :0)

"How they tittered and how they chaffed,
How the brothers and the sisters laughed"

No bodys laughin' now!


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: kendall
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 04:31 PM

I was watching Senator Orrin Hatch today being interviewed. The interviewer asked him how he would cut spending in the most expensive programs, Medicare, Social security and the military. It was funny watching him two step and do his best to not answer. She kept pressing him for a specific answer and he just wouldn't stand.
Cliches' and tired old platitudes as usual. Career politicians learn to dance in their first year in congress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 06:15 PM

I have watched 3-4 of them being interviewed and asked similar questions. They never seem to have clear answers about what to do. The whole campaign was based on what NOT to do..."Don't agree with ANYTHING Obama proposes."


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:19 PM

""Now, there's something to be real proud of and I'll bet that's definitely why the sons a'bitches voted them in, too, just to get that upstart outta there!""

That's how it looks from this side of the pond Kat, and it stinks.

From where I stand, the red neck, white, republican tribe, has followed a "block everthing Obama tries to do" policy, and then blamed him for all the things that they prevented from getting done.

Comes the election, following a deluge of lies, they have won Congress.

They sure put that uppity n****r in his place, and took back their country.

Seems to me America has lost out, and is stuck with a government which would happily see the country go down the crapper, rather than accept that a black man should be in charge.

Jim Crow is alive and well, and whatever the outcome in social or economic terms, the US loses out once more to the racist attitudes of the past.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:29 PM

C'mon now, Don... 'some' of those NO votes are obviously racist, but that uppity n****r got 53% of the vote a couple years ago. 20-30% probably wouldn't vote for Obama if you paid them, but there are plenty who vote for principles and competence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:56 PM

..."opinion blows back and forth".    It's not as simple as that.   

Politicians try to divine what their voters want to hear and tell them that.   Once they have done so and been elected, if their conduct differs from what voters were told in the election, groups monitoring them may well publicize this.

This applies especially when the politician was elected on the basis of opposing outrages perpetrated by the other side.   If he or she then were to compromise with the alleged evil forces (the other side), that politician may well be out on his or her ear at the next election. Particularly the case with House members--who have to run every 2 years.

Hence extreme partisans--especially in the House which was in fact set up expressly to be more directly responsive to the electorate than the Senate.   And very likely gridlock, if as now, the split is pretty even in the Senate, and closer than it was in the House.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:30 PM

The reason they absolutely will NOT tell the public any specifics about what they really intend to do to "cut spending" is...there'd be a revolution if they revealed what they actually intend to do.

They do not intend to cut spending. Hardly. Neither party has any intention of truly cutting spending. They intend to pretend that somehow that they are cutting spending (like they pretended to pull out of Iraq recently) while continuing to bankroll the biggest and most wasteful military budget in the world, while continuing to chip away at social services and civil rights, while continuing to create new debts and new fiat money (invented with the mere stroke of a computer key).

They will not cut spending. They will continue to bleed the middle class and abandon the poor, export jobs to Asia and Mexico, and provide windfalls to the richest 1 % of the population.

All talk of cutting spending is merely propaganda intended to sway the minds of the ordinary public via the mass media. It's a lie, no matter whether the Republicans promise to do it or the Democrats promise to do it. They tell these lies with utter aplomb, because they know that their well-controlled mass media will manipulate the American public into a completely false impression of what is going on, and the game will continue as it has in the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:37 PM

"fiat money" is likely to be beneficial at this stage of the economic cycle - but the Tea Party and Republican's won't be creating it, in fact they'll likely be reducing it, and having sown the seeds then the US economy will reap the whirlwind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 09:39 PM

PS - for once I am inclined to agree with Don in that when the Tea Party are discussing Obama the word "uppity" seeks to hover in the air awaiting its moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Mr G.
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 10:14 PM

In light of this discussion, this entry, from another subject, is unbelievably nothing short of brilliant, and right on!



Subject: RE: BS: WOW!!! NBC Reports on Repub Cash...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 01:59 AM

As I posted a few weeks ago, about the Koch Bros....this is not 'breaking news', but it has caused me to be a bit suspicious, of the Tea Party.
Well, close to suspicious of the Soros funding on the left.(They probably didn't run a 'balanced' story, just about the Koch money). If they wanted to get really heavy, they'd be talking about the Saudi money, and/or the Chinese demands and sanctions, because of our debt!...But what is really happening is not even about Republicans and Democrats...that is the lightweight illusion.

What is really happening is the dissolution of the United States, (who, btw, is the occupying government of America!) ...and their frantic struggle to hold on to some power, as we dissolve.

Now, if you don't understand that, don't get all pissy. There is a LOT of shit going on, that the common citizen has not much info on, but they DO FEEL the effects...and because of lack of truthful info, they(we) are turning against each other, and blaming each other for it..when in reality, this is WAY over most of their heads, as so far, as the treaties that have been signed, and deals struck, outside of Constitutional scrutiny..and away from the eyes of we citizens!

So big deal, we have Kochs, Soros, Murdoch, GE, Westinghouse, blah blah blah...They have all become greedy manipulative little shits!!!..
and NONE of them are concerned with YOUR or America's well being!!..only what's in it for them!

NOBODY is forcing you to buy into their crap, anymore than selling out to so-called 'liberalism', or 'conservatism'....and they'll even re-define those 'definitions' as well, to make sure you THINK you are trapped into one of them!!!......and your best bud, is really your enemy!...FUCK THAT!!

They've re-defined: 'Civil Rights', Democracy, the Republic, causes for war, national security, sexual identities, entitlements, marriage, poverty, education, debt, profit, patriotism, and so much more.....and are trying to sell us a 'reality' of their own choosing and design!..FUCK THAT, too!

No one here, is dependent on living in their illusions of reality...in fact, they are dependent on those who buy into it!!!

Maybe along the way, some of you decided that it was cooler to be more 'comfortable'..and that included 'selling out'!...and the spirit of loving your fellow man has been replaced by only getting along with those who agree with your mutual pet dogmas, either religious, or political!

What is more important, is what lays ahead, in their diabolical schemes...but even MORE important, is how we behave, and how we hold on to our character and morals and soul(if you will), than trading them in for some stupid shallow swill, that they are dishing out 24-7!

Shit! Some of us write...and reach out to God only knows where, to grab a piece of the heart and soul of the common force of life, and try to put it in lyrics, or a tune or a harmony.....and all we get is shit you're inspired by, from propagandized 'news'????....or shit dripping from the mouths of politicians???? HOLY SHIT!! Have we lived so long, and through so much, that all your painful experiences have brought you NO WHERE??!!??

Tune in Turn on and sell out??? Damn, if you had the spark to know to dial into something higher before, why revert back to voluntary mental illness??...We should be higher now, both in understanding, and in accessing!.....But, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, let's be small, and bicker on who's giving whom what, to deceive the 'rest of the already deceived'.

If you wanted to, if you were really dialed in enough, and hip enough, you'd be 'pointing the way'..now, wouldn't you?....but instead, you've got your fingers up your noses, and pouting...FUCK THAT, too!

We don't need 'leaders', we need those who can FIND it!....then point the way.

Oh Well, ya' probably don't even know what I'm talkin' about...but to those few who may........keep going, and reach 'escape velocity'!!!


GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 11:32 PM

Gigi Sohn writes in the Huffington Post that one of the results of the mid-term elections was the defeat of Representative Rick Boucher, the current Chair of the House Subcommittee on Communications, Technology and the Internet, widely recognized as one of the most tech-savvy and intelligent members of Congress, and long an advocate for consumers on a wide variety of communications and intellectual property issues. Boucher has been the best friend of fair use on Capitol Hill writes Sohn. In 2002, 2003 and 2007, Boucher introduced legislation to allow consumers to break digital locks for lawful purposes, a fair use exception to the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and while the odds against that legislation passing were always great, Boucher understood the symbolic importance of standing up for consumers' rights to use technology lawfully. 'As important, he served as a moderating force both on the House Energy & Commerce and Judiciary Committees against those many members of Congress willing to give large media companies virtually everything on their copyright wish lists.'"


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: J-boy
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:02 AM

The working-class poor of my state(Maine)seem determined to vote themselves into oblivion. I don't understand why someone would support a candidate so opposed to their self interest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:30 AM

Well, Amos, in spite of Gigi Sohn's praise of Representative Rick Boucher, he must have done something that pissed off the folks in his district that sent him to Washington. Right?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 03:29 AM

Little Hawk: "All talk of cutting spending is merely propaganda intended to sway the minds of the ordinary public via the mass media. It's a lie, no matter whether the Republicans promise to do it or the Democrats promise to do it. They tell these lies with utter aplomb, because they know that their well-controlled mass media will manipulate the American public into a completely false impression of what is going on, and the game will continue as it has in the past."

So, to 'spend' more money, by that, you mean, BORROW more money...from who? Print bonds? That they buy back, with no money??...You mean an IOU, as collateral for another IOU??? Sounds like what the did in the mortgage debacle..except this time, its with our currency? not only is that stupid, but its illegal. But I suppose with enough corruption to grease the media, they'll make it appear OK? or at least 'palatable'?

What it really is is a last ditch effort, before things turn to shit!..I mean SERIOUS shit!...is it not?

Little Hawk, with all due respects, and I say that, as to a friend, this is WAY bigger than your stated issues...however, that being said, your issues are correct, too. This is one of the agendas, of which I have posted on here.

Would you take an IOU to back up another IOU, that is used as backing for yet another IOU, and let's say, sell your car, for one of those???
That is where we are at, now!

All this borrowing, and stupid bills, based on borrowing, running up our debt into the trillions(above the $800,000,000,000 printed), is absolutely catastrophic!!! Like I said, in the other post I was going to address, we are watching ourselves living the dissolution of the United States.

Wanna' write a protest song?? The common citizen didn't do this, but was deceived, into taking part. Write a song of the human outcry, of the suffering, as a result of this.

As for me, my protest songs lift the beauty that they can never take away. (I think that's why when I play, people are actually having tears run down....but I use NO lyrics!----Though I have some older ones that do).

By the Way, Yo-Ho!!

Mr. G: "In light of this discussion, this entry, from another subject, is unbelievably nothing short of brilliant, and right on!"

Hey thanks..I got it from Sanity-Land. I don't know what part stuck out to you, but I do hope it fed your being.

Do you play and instrument?...........If so, turn your music into the truth coming out from your heart of hearts..blow them away!!!


Regards,

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 04:44 AM

Will people frothing at the mouth about debt please please please just go and read a couple of basic things like the wikipedia articles on money supply and economic multipliers?

At this stage, the US economy needs stimulus. In fact it could do with a fair dollop of "tax and spend" but that is not it seems sellable to the irrational public in the USA or UK. Failing "tax and spend" increasing the money supply is exactly what the US needs, and directing available money to those on the margins will ensure that that money gets spent - all to the good.

The Tea Party loonies and illiterates are not going to do that and indeed it seems to me that there is a real risk of budgets failing to be agreed, and once there is no money available to government (the consequence of legislative failure on budgets) all of the things that central and local government provide (most infrastructure) are at risk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 07:19 AM

OK. I'm bemused and confused.

The Republican backed Tea party backed Republican candidates who were elected are part of the new 3rd party in the exclusive 2 party political system, and will sit with the Repubs in the Party meetings, so...

.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 08:32 AM

Right, Robin,-- they've--already--been co-opted by the Republicans.    At least one--Rand Paul--said election night he would argue with his (Republican) leader every day.   We'll see.

But the current situation is yet another reason to be concerned about Sarah.    Above anybody else, she is the bridge between the two factions of the Republican party.

Which makes her nomination as Presidential candidate of the Republicans in 2012 even more likely. If she wants it.   So far, no indication she does not.   And Mudcatters' scorn for her will likely be as effective as it was keeping GWB (and, pre-Mudcat) Reagan out of the White House.

Main question will be the unemployment rate in 2012. As I've noted elsewhere, the Fed said recently it would be about 9%.   Not good enough to save a sitting President--unless he can pin the blame on the other side.   With an (officially) Democratic Senate, not easy.

So we come back to the opening post, now too late.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: olddude
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 09:21 AM

100 years ago when I was in College my Economics Professor said. Deficit government spending is not a problem at all .. "As long as the debt is held internal" IE war bonds, treasury notes. You see the country then owes money to itself .. One of the things he rambled over and over is when the debt is controlled by foreign sources it is a major problem for they then control the value of your currency through lending or through calling a debt due. Obama, inherited a crisis, there was no choice but to spend and borrow or witness the total collapse of the financial segment. It was created through greed and through corporate mismanagement and a naive thought that bank could regulate themselves. Two expensive wars and several national disasters help fuel this debt. It is complex and will be more than lets stop spending to fix it. No matter who is control, stop the spending and watch the unemployment number go to 14%+ . Continue to borrow and your economy is owned by a foreign government. Very hard decisions that anyone in office is going to face.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: olddude
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 09:40 AM

And to add to it, you cannot sustain an economy long through only government spending. That didn't work historically IE USSR and will not work here or anywhere else. Obama did the right thing when he stated we need to create new technology and started pushing "green energy etc" That was a suggestion that we need to change and create private sector jobs of new thinking. Maybe that isn't the best approach but jobs need to come from the private sector or we all going to fail.   When we lost our manufacturing jobs as was going to happen we left a void that has yet to be filled. We can complain about cheap labor and no rules the other nations have but they will say, hey it is our time now, you went through your industrialization so why not us. It is clear we won't be able to compete in manufacturing as the third world countries are now where we were 100+ years ago in manufacturing. That is why we read about child labor and such, we went through the same thing only many years ago.   So where does it leave us, I submit to great minds than me but we need to be the worlds most innovative nation (we once was), or turn to services. I see no other choice at the moment. Both of which required education (the very thing many wish to cut)


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 10:48 AM

Hey, folks, I just read a fascinating little book, a series of essays by Gore Vidal....and you all should give it a look. It's called "The Decline and Fall of the American Empire", and it succinctly explains what has been going on since 1950 till now, how the USA turned from a creditor nation to a debtor nation during Reagan's term of office, how the 2 parties are really one party that masquerades as a supposed choice...and so on...

Very interesting! Gore Vidal was born into the rich elite. He was recognized as brilliant from an early age. He went through their ivy league school system. But unlike most of them he decided to break ranks and talk about what's really going on. As such, he is regarded as absolutely "outrageous" by the establishment and mass media, because he pulls back the curtain and reveals the Great Oz, who is nothing but a group of rich little men in business suits, the owners of 19 or 20 huge multi-national corporations. Are they a conspiracy? Yes. And no. Yes, because they share in a common purpose, which is to control government policy and thereby enrich themselves. No, because they are just doing what comes naturally to them anyway, which is to do whatever will most enrich themselves...so why would they even have to conspire? ;-D

Anyway, read it. I dare you. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 11:04 AM

GfS - Yes, I was just talking about one small aspect of the situation...how phony money is created out of nothing...but you are right that it's bigger than that, and we are witnessing the dissolution of America.

The masters of the Great Game have re-defined a whole lot of common words in the common vernacular, words such as "liberal", "conservative", "defense", "socialist", etc....they've redefined those words and many others in the public consciousness through their mass media bullshit to the point where people have no idea what the words originally meant. The new definitions are intended to stereotype and divide people into opposing camps, and totally mislead people about what's happening. (The "defense" industry, for example, does not DEFEND! It attacks. It attacks people in many parts of the world and its primary purpose is to invade and attack.)

As said by Boss Tweed in "Gangs of New York", "You can always get one half of the poor to kill the other half for you..."

The American public are being divided against one another constantly through this Newspeak business of giving false new definitions to keywords that are spoken strictly to upset and mislead people.

The Great Oz is getting desperate, and the tactics of control are getting very crude indeed. I keep wondering just when and how the shit will finally hit the fan.

In the meantime, we must promote the most positive and unifying messages we can on behalf of the rest of us...that is, humanity in general. We have far more in common than the trivial issues that are trotted out to divide us. People should turn off their damned TVs and start reading books and talking to each other instead of listening to Fox or CNN. They might learn something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: olddude
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 11:43 AM

Where are all the Microsofts? Like it or not like it, one company owns the operating system of the world's computing. Why are there not 20 Microsoft's ? Innovation and education is the only solution to unemployment and financial ruin. Playing smoke and mirrors with numbers on Wall Street will not, nor will party bantering. Take back America? To What. We will never fill the void of lost manufacturing in a global economy for it is not possible. but we sure can with innovation, and not number games from banks and wall street. A complete and total retooling of America and its education systems. WE create engineers and world class scientists, we thrive, we piss and moan about lost auto jobs and look towards government, we lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:12 PM

Indeed. And why are there not 150 small local auto companies in America, as once was the case, all providing local jobs in many different cities, all competing against each other and producing a unique quality product? Why has it been comglomerated into a handful of huge outfits in Detroit which produce crummy vehicles at inflated prices? What we have witnessed in a hundred years is the destruction of small scale capitalism as it once existed, and its replacement by multi-national conglomerates in the hands of an elite few who ship most of the jobs to the Third World and destroy local jobs and industy in North America. We are now seeing the destruction of the middle class and the division of society into a few very rich and a great many powerless poor...a poor who are told they still have a choice at the polls...but they don't, because the elite few control BOTH the Republican and the Democratic parties and control government policy by financing the election campaigns. It is the servants of the corporate elite who get elected to office, because only those people can receive sufficient funding and media coverage to get elected in the first place. Once in office, they do as they are told...or suffer the consequences, and the consequences are not nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:21 PM

>>Well, Amos, in spite of Gigi Sohn's praise of Representative Rick Boucher, he must have done something that pissed off the folks in his district that sent him to Washington. Right?

DougR <<

Are you kidding Doug? Isn't your side saying this was a mandate against (and a clear message to) Obama and Pelosi? What is wrong? You haven't got your talking points yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:26 PM

Well, putting end-game hypotheses and conspiracy theories aside for the moment ( I fully expect GfS or LH to start talking about the
Templars or the illuminati at any moment), my opinion of Obama's election at the time was "why in God's name does he want to take this on?" Anyone who was elected President in 2008 was inheriting a failed economy, a massive debt, and an angry electorate. At his election, Obama's popularity was off the charts. Why? Because people were desparate for any kind of hope. I knew when he moved from the realm of the abstract to actually implementing change , that he would experience massive opposition. In short, he was faced with an unwinnable game.

As someone said previously, he has been President for 18 months, has been responsible for an enormous amount of legislation, and opposition to him breaks into two camps: Those who feel that he hasn't done enough, and those who feel he's done too much. I will give him credit for instituting emergency stopgap measures which prevented a total and immediate meltdown of the financial system. And I give him credit for pursuing solutions to long-term issues like universal health care, which had been permanently tabled. Confronted with complex issues, Obama has attempted complex solutions. And complex is something the electorate neither desires or understands. What they understand is the FOX National Debt clock. What they understand is a Republican candidate nailing the Cap and Trade Agreement to a tree and shooting it with a 9mm pistol. In short, we desire solutions, but have none of the patience or understanding of the issues necessary to achieve them.

In such an environment, how could anyone prevail in making needed change? We are disappointed, but we shouldn't be surprised. When Barack Obama made his victory speech, there were those who decided on the spot that we would support him through thick and thin, and there were others who had been defeated, but who knew better than to rail in bitterness in the face of so much hope. They knew that, biding their time, they could simply outwait us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:50 PM

olddude and Little Hawk, You've got a more realistic view, more than most of what is going on! However, Little Hawk, I'd like to point out one small(?) detail, that you may have possibly misquoted, or mis-phrased, it is the dissolution of the 'United States', not America(if you catch my drift). America is the land, and the spirit which belongs to it...The 'United States' is the occupying government, which has opted out of what they originally were intended to be, in trade to be something else, through the 'wily ways' of corrupting forces, and has now become the common vernacular and mindset, of the citizen's conscience.....That's one BIG reason now one can agree on anything. They've been removed from their original reality, and sold a notion that it was, or should be something else.

Did that make sense to you?.....In other words, people's present reality was shifted away from reality, in order that it can be manipulated, to facilitate the goals, of those, who have self serving interests, that need to crush the spirit of us(?), in order to 'satisfy' their aims. I think they may succeed, but only for a time.
An attribute of living beings is regeneration, those who are NOT fully living need to be 'psychic vampires' ...which the only way they can, is for us to turn it over to them....in other words, by our own permission...which of course, incorporates deception, on their part, and a 'surrender' of that which is sacred, on the prey's part.
This IS the political process!

But then, if a family man goes to see a hooker, with AIDS, who's fucking who?

Regards,

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 12:54 PM

"What they understand is a Republican candidate nailing the Cap and Trade Agreement to a tree and shooting it with a 9mm pistol. "

wasn't that a DEMOCRATIC candidate? In WV?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:00 PM

beardedbruce, Manchin, and it was a rifle..he won, btw!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:06 PM

LEJ - I think you are really being a sorry-ass and mentally lazy dude to drag out the old "conspiracy theory" chesnut as a dismissal. You must not have read what I said about the Vidal book with enough care. I said:

"Are they a conspiracy? Yes. And no. Yes, because they share in a common purpose, which is to control government policy and thereby enrich themselves. No, because they are just doing what comes naturally to them anyway, which is to do whatever will most enrich themselves...so why would they even have to conspire? ;-D"

Now read that with some comprehension, okay? I was basically paraphrasing what Gore Vidal says in one of his essays in response to the usual media dismissal which is to laughingly joke...."conspiracy theory". And which you are now doing.

Look, man, you don't need an overall conspiracy for this sort of thing to happen. You simply need an entrenched elite at the top of a society who have basically common objectives.

1. they want to get even richer and more powerful
2. they want governments not to interfere much in the process of their getting richer, and that means: deregulation and other such manuovers

This elite are in vicious competition with each other too. Don't forget that. So of course they conspire. Duh! ANY private meeting of individuals which formulates a plan and doesn't tell the general public about that plan IS a conspiracy. So a couple of corporations, for example, will have a board meeting and conspire as to how they can join forces and buy out some other businesses and split the proceeds.

Conspiracies do not need to be single or monolithic to be conspiracies. There are probably several million conspiracies being hatched in the USA every day by private persons, criminals, aunties who are spying on the neighbours, CEOs, the CIA, businessmen, salesmen, teenage kids, you name it.

Conspiracies are normal in business. You don't tell all the other business people what moves you are about to make! Conspiracies are also normal in government. You don't tell the other governments about your strategic plans, military or otherwise. That's why we have spies, for gosh sakes!

So conspiracies are as common as grass and weeds.

But when you dismiss what I'm talking about as a "conspiracy theory", you are suggesting that I'm saying it's a single monolithic conspiracy, a la the Illuminati, the Templars, the Masons, etc... You do that so you can just laugh it off.

It does not have to be that at all. It just has to be a large number of enormous multi-national businesses who all wish to maximize their profits...naturally! That's what they're in it for. And they have, in general, very common interests when it comes to how to do that, because they are concerned about how the government taxes corporations, how the government regulates the banks and lending institutions, how the goverment handles trade and tariffs, how the government spends its money, how the government borrows its money, and where the government will fight its wars.

All this concerns them in common, because it affects their profits. They don't need to all get together and form a monolithic conspiracy. They just need to bribe the politicians through campaign funding and lobbying so as to control the political process and influence all those things I mentioned in the above paragraph.

And that is what they do. It's inevitable that they would do it.

Like all organized criminals, they are also quite willing to stab each other in the back when a lucrative opportuntiy arises, and of course they do that too. They are not a single monolithic conspiracy, LEJ, they are a bunch of separate businessmen with a very similar set of profit-making objectives, that's all.

In medieval times it was the Church of Rome, the Royals, and the Nobility who ran the show. They were the controlling elite. That wasn't a single monolithic conspiracy either...but it might as well have been from the point of view of the millions of peasants who suffered miserably under it, and the Muslims whose lands were invaded in the Crusades!

Get what I mean now?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:10 PM

I stand corrected. Let me rephrase it.

"What they understand is a Democratic candidate who is more interested in following the prevailing breeze than standing on principle, nailing the Cap and Trade Agreement to a tree and shooting it with a rifle."

Either way, I believe you get the point. Demagoguery cuts in both directions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:11 PM

GfS - Absolutely right. It is the dissolution of the United States that is occuring, not of America. America is a sacred area of land stretching from the North Pole to Tierra Del Fuego, and as you say, it is also the Spirit of that land. The United States is, as you say, an occupying government which has siezed a large part of that sacred land and is attempting to control the rest of it through financial, political, and paramilitary means. The United States is falling apart, but the land of America will endure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM

Of course demagoguery cuts in both directions. That's what your 2-party system is for. ;-) It divides and separates, and you're suddenly more powerless. In Canada we have 5 parties, so demagoguery cuts 5 ways here! It also divides and separates and renders the public powerless, but in a more complicated way...which actually has some beneficial effects on moderating the process. We have long had relatively moderate governments, but the one we have now is probably the worst ever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:38 PM

The Democratic Senator from West Virginia was doing exactly what he should do. He was defending the interests of West Virginia. Cap and Trade will hurt West Virginia jobs. There is no doubt of that. Democrats are not expected to toe the party line on every single issue. You need the modern Republicans for that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:56 PM

Little Hawk: "...America is a sacred area of land stretching from the North Pole to Tierra Del Fuego..."

However, Do Not confuse that with the 'North American Union'...that is man/corporate/political made....and therefore, not sacred.

Just thought I'd throw that in, as to clarify what and who we really are!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:58 PM

There is a North American Union?

LOL Watch out GfS, a squirrel might store you for the winter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 01:59 PM

I don't think that demagoguery is standard, LH. You are interpreting it as the source and inspiration for both parties. I am saying it is an individual phenomenon related to ego and an overwhelming desire to be elected. I don't think Barack Obama, or for that matter Mike Huckabee or Lindsey Graham, are examples of this.
Jack, I get your point. The point I was going for is that photo ops and sound bytes are the fodder the voting public is consuming, rather than long-term solutions, which tend to require effort and concentration.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:01 PM

Jack, I guess that depends on how you look at it....or if you can see far enough...

Wink!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:04 PM

Hey, I'd love to stay on, while you're all on...but I've got to go...(grrr)....Have a great 'Muddy' Day..will catch up with you later!

GfS

P.s. unless there is something really pressing on here, Soon, but I need to go..(appointment)

Regards,

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM

>>>>From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:04 PM

Hey, I'd love to stay on, while you're all on...but I've got to go...(grrr)....Have a great 'Muddy' Day..will catch up with you later!

GfS

P.s. unless there is something really pressing on here, Soon, but I need to go..(appointment)

Regards,

GfS <<<


Thanks for the status update. I was dying to know how you were spending your afternoon. How sane of you to tell us. You know there are two whole websites for that called "Twitter" and "Facebook."


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:22 PM

Jack, my post wasn't particularly pointed in your direction....but I appreciate the thought.....and I'm aware of twitter and facebook.

Take a red.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:27 PM

Come on Jack. We can all wait until he gets back. ;>)


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:34 PM

From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 05:44 AM

It is clear from this side of the pond that Americans are not fit to govern themselves. We should take it back


Seems to me we're not the only country to turn the reins over to the Consevatives this year. One might even say that after direction Blair and Browne took New Labor, that you guys don't even have a liberal party capable of forming a government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:46 PM

>>Come on Jack. We can all wait until he gets back.<<

That's what I am talking about!!! I know I will be waiting with baited breath! If he was on twitter I would get an alert on my smart phone and I wouldn't have to check this thread every two minutes to see if he has returned!!

I'm dying to know how the appointment went and whether or not he went to Starbucks on the way home!! It is sooooo relevant to the topic at hand!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:46 PM

Oh great, the Redcoats are coming.

We look forward to the beer, but leave the kidney pie at home if you don't mind. And if anybody could do a worse job building cars than us, its definitely you Brits. I can't wait to see what Lucas Electric will do for the Chevy Volt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 02:55 PM

Come on EJ, GUEST is entitled to express his opinion.

Though I am sad that he did not wait for GfS to get back from his appointment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 03:11 PM

None of these matters are what I believe GfS would call "pressing", so I think its ok, Jack.
I expect him back shortly, as most meetings of the Civilization is Shit and We Are All being Brainwashed Club usually devolves into chaotic shouting with fifteen minutes at which point someone expresses the belief that the room is being bugged and they all head home using back alleyways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Genie
Date: 04 Nov 10 - 03:26 PM

These election results are a setback for the Democratic Party and Obama and for the America people (even though the Tea Partiers don't know it - yet).    But they don't have to be a "disaster."

Yes, the House is in Republican hands.   But, given the regimentation of the Republican Party in recent years, the Democrats and Obama wouldn't have had any less control over the House of Representatives if the Republicans just had a majority of 1 or 2.

But the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats, and if they have the backbone and the determination to get things done, they will open the next Congress by changing the Senate rules to make routine filibusters unfeasible and to prevent individual Senators from putting lengthy holds on cabinet appointments, etc., or on bills that are in committee.   They can change the rules to make Senatorial deliberations much more transparent.

Obama and the Democrats can also use the media to shine a spotlight on the Republicans' agenda and tactics. Obama can take on the big-money interests the way both Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt did, too. He may be a one-term President if he does, but he will be anyway if he doesn't.    At this point, even if he pulls a Bill Clinton and acts like a moderate corporatist Republican, he will lose in 2010. That's the Republicans' stated principal goal, and that's not going to change because Obama tries to be "Republican lite."


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