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BS: Disaster for the Democrats?

Ron Davies 02 Nov 10 - 01:06 AM
Don Firth 02 Nov 10 - 01:35 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 02 Nov 10 - 02:07 AM
GUEST,Bobert at the library... 02 Nov 10 - 03:56 PM
gnu 02 Nov 10 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Bobert at the libarary... 02 Nov 10 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Bobert at the Library... 02 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM
Genie 02 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM
beardedbruce 02 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM
Donuel 02 Nov 10 - 05:21 PM
akenaton 02 Nov 10 - 05:40 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 10 - 05:52 PM
akenaton 02 Nov 10 - 06:12 PM
josepp 02 Nov 10 - 06:23 PM
akenaton 02 Nov 10 - 06:27 PM
GUEST,999 02 Nov 10 - 06:33 PM
DougR 02 Nov 10 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,999 02 Nov 10 - 06:38 PM
pdq 02 Nov 10 - 06:43 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 10 - 06:43 PM
josepp 02 Nov 10 - 06:51 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 10 - 07:00 PM
pdq 02 Nov 10 - 07:08 PM
olddude 02 Nov 10 - 07:17 PM
akenaton 02 Nov 10 - 07:24 PM
Jack the Sailor 02 Nov 10 - 07:45 PM
Charley Noble 02 Nov 10 - 07:58 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 10 - 08:03 PM
josepp 02 Nov 10 - 09:08 PM
Don Firth 02 Nov 10 - 09:14 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 10 - 09:27 PM
josepp 02 Nov 10 - 09:32 PM
Amos 02 Nov 10 - 10:39 PM
Amergin 02 Nov 10 - 10:44 PM
mousethief 02 Nov 10 - 11:19 PM
katlaughing 02 Nov 10 - 11:31 PM
josepp 02 Nov 10 - 11:35 PM
catspaw49 02 Nov 10 - 11:38 PM
katlaughing 02 Nov 10 - 11:51 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Nov 10 - 11:52 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 03 Nov 10 - 12:34 AM
Little Hawk 03 Nov 10 - 12:42 AM
Ron Davies 03 Nov 10 - 01:12 AM
Genie 03 Nov 10 - 01:22 AM
Don Firth 03 Nov 10 - 01:49 AM
Sawzaw 03 Nov 10 - 01:53 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 03 Nov 10 - 02:19 AM
Genie 03 Nov 10 - 02:23 AM
akenaton 03 Nov 10 - 05:02 AM
Joe Offer 03 Nov 10 - 05:09 AM
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Subject: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 01:06 AM

That depends.

It seems that the US economy is not improving very quickly at all--to say the least. I've read the Fed is predicting about 9% unemployment at the end of 2011.    And even when a worker manages to find another job, it often is a service-sector job, paying worse than his or her old job.

And it's obvious that the gridlock we have now will, if anything, be worse in the next Congress.

So it appears that the electorate may well be just about as angry in 2012 as they are now.


That being the case, the stage could be set for President Obama to do a Truman 1948--but only if the new Congress is solidly Republican.    So, ironically, it may well be that his best chance for re-election is that the Republicans take both the House and Senate in 2010.

It's a foregone conclusion that nothing will be done by the next Congress--it will be hyper-partisan and rather evenly split.    So if it is officially a Republican Congress (Republican majorities in both Houses), Obama can run against a classic "do-nothing Congress"--thus, finally, getting on the right side of an electorate which otherwise is likely to be howling for his head, and those of other Democrats.

Comments?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 01:35 AM

You may very well have something there, Ron. I'll have to think about this (after a good night's sleep).

Barbara's and my ballots are in the mail.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 02:07 AM

Ron Davies: "Comments?"


Yeah, but I'm not into arguing. I just posted a piece under the 'WOW--CBS thread. It may have some bearing....I just don't want to type a lot now..but, it would be in that direction...

Hi, Don...

Regards,
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Bobert at the library...
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 03:56 PM

No, disaster for 95% of Americans...


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: gnu
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:06 PM

Here's a "comment"... what is wrong with the people of the US? They have a chance to give the administration a CHANCE to GOVERN and get shit done. If they vote Rep they shoot themselves in the foot... over and over again for at least two more years.

United they stand, divided they continue to screw themselves and the world. The rich must be laughing all the way to the bank. It's sad... truly sad. Checks and balances? More like cheques and big balances for the bank accounts of the rich.

"How can they sleep while the rest of us cry... " Pink.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Bobert at the libarary...
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:08 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Bobert at the Library...
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM

We'll, gn'ze...

If you read my comments on the "Unpopular..." thread it exapalins it all...

But the short version: Americans are morons...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Genie
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM

I prefer to wait to see how the elections turn out this year before trying to analyze how those results will affect the 2010 elections.

Polls are still open, folks. Let's not - any of us - throw in the towel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM

I have to agree with Bobert-

Just look at the last election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 05:21 PM

The towel was so dirty I threw it out, not in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 05:40 PM

Americans are not morons....any more than the Brits are morons.

The ordinary folk are just sick of politicians, at last folk are beginning to see what is really happening...and they dont like it.

Unlike the majority on Mudcat, most people in the real world dont have strong political affiliations, they dont see politics in terms of "my team".

The popular movement you see in America is a move away from political spin and hypocrisy....even if this is a move to the right in the short term, it must be good for the country to break the political stranglehold applied by corporatism.

Maybe the powerful are going to have to start listening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 05:52 PM

"The ordinary folk are just sick of politicians, ..."

Maybe so, but I don't know what they think they will get by voting in a NEW batch! There are too many distractions for a certain % of them to bother thinking, so they just watch Fox News and 'react' to the "political spin and hypocrisy" you mention.

If they are unemployed and see friends dieing in a war, they can't be bothered to STUDY which party offers the best plans...they just quit voting or vote for 'someone new' and hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:12 PM

They dont need to study to know the "best plan".....the only plan!

To get the fuck out, before they cause any more damage.

Todays Times tells of a wave of bombings across Iraq, infrastructure in ruins, Govt corruption rife, Women set back 20 years, Sunni/Shia violence boiling up nicely, fueled by lack of Sunni representation.

Need I go on?

Sarahs people dont want to lose their sons and daughters for nothing


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:23 PM

I want the republicans to win. I want the spotlight put on them. I'm tired of hearing sniping from the sidelines but offering nothing better (because there isn't anything better to offer). So, fine, let's throw them in the ring and tell them, "Don't tell us, show us." In 2 years, they'll be voting the dems back in because the republicans and the tea party have no answers whatsoever and certainly no sane candidates. They'll be forced to work with Obama instead of whining about everything he does or doesn't do. And they had BETTER work with him--WITH him. Or there will be hell to pay in '12.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:27 PM

Blue shirt , red eyes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:33 PM

Well said, Ron.

With no disrespect to my US neighbours to the south, I am fed up with American politics and American politicians--pretty much as I am with Canadian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:36 PM

The Democrats are going to lose BIG tonight and they have no one to blame but their own members of congress and our president.

The U.S. is a center right country and attempts to make it anything else spells disaster for the Party that tries.

There will be lots of Democrats' vacant houses in the D.C. area come January 1, 2011, and I feel very good about it. It won't hurt the housing industry there, of course, because the vacancies will be filled by Republicans.

Hopefully, four of the vacancies will be owned or rented by our four Arizona Democrat Congress members. All four voted for the key Bills Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi rammed through congress and which were opposed by the majority of American voters.

What was it Obama said about elections? Oh yes, "elections have consequencies."

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:38 PM

I expect you`ll awake tomorrow and find that--GASP--the sky has fallen, Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: pdq
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:43 PM

The Democrats took over Congress as a result of the 2006 election, not the 2008 one that gave us Obama.

The Republicans have had nothing to say about the legislatve agenda or the Federal spending in four years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:43 PM

"The U.S. is a center right country and attempts to make it anything else spells disaster for the Party that tries.

...even if they try to make it a FAR right country? Seems like that is what they intend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 06:51 PM

Either way, America has the politics it deserves, so who cares?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:00 PM

deserves? What a strange attitude...why should any country 'deserve' a poor system?

...oh..and *I* care.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: pdq
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:08 PM

I agree with Bill D on that point.

The US people deserve the best because we are the hardest working and the most productive people on Planet Earth.

Our Federal Congress is a corrupt joke and all members deserve to be punished (to some extent), not the American people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:17 PM

I am a register independent, I fully believe in this experiment called democracy and I do trust it. I may or may not like the results all the time but something good always comes out of it and I have to believe that as I do believe in America ..

I let the people decide and I live with it. My guys are getting clobbered but if the people have spoken - I go with it. At least if nothing more, there maybe some more debate and discussion on serious issues (I can only hope). I never liked it when 1 side controls all no matter if that side is the people I generally support. So I look at it that way and hope good comes out of balance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:24 PM

Bill you are defining these people not on their politics, but on moral issues, homosexual marriage, abortion, etc.
We all, left and right, agree that too much govt is bad, benefit dependency is bad, nationalised healthcare is only as good as the people who use it or abuse it. Our NHS started as the best thing any British govt had ever done, it has now become a financial "black hole" abused by consultants, drug companies, G.P.s...even patients.

We poorer people on PAYE are being robbed by direct and indirect taxation, while the really rich practice tax avoidance.

People are beginning to notice.....the penny is dropping.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:45 PM

>>>Sarahs people dont want to lose their sons and daughters for nothing <<<

It is hard to imagine a more ignorant statement about US politics. A large part of "Sarahs" initial appeal was that her son volunteered to fight and that she proudly sent him.

To suggest that the Republicans or Tea Party is anti-war is very naive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:58 PM

I do hate to see a stalemate in Congress for another two years. I see no reason that a majority Republican House would be more inclined to cooperate with Democrats than they have the last two years.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 08:03 PM

"Bill you are defining these people not on their politics..."

'These' people? Which people? I haven't defined anyone. But it seems to me that people's politics are barely distinguishable from their 'moral issues' these days. In the USA, money has pushed moral issues into a central place because those WITH money consider playing to the 'religious right' important to their cause. If they get richer and control power, they care little whether religion imposes itself on the populace in general.

I 'react' to people, as much as I can, according to their behavior and their reasoning...or lack thereof.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:08 PM

////deserves? What a strange attitude...why should any country 'deserve' a poor system?////

Because they WANT a poor system or they would change it. If I don't pity what's happening to the Afghans and, in fact, believe they are to blame for their own predicament, I sure as hell ain't wasting feeling sorry for Americans. This is the system you want or you'd change it.

It's television programming or celebrities or sports stars--we have the ones we deserve.

And if you don't feel we deserve it, too bad, you're gonna have to live with it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:14 PM

Decent health care for ALL of those who are in need of it IS a moral issue.

Some folks seem to be under the impression that "moral issues" encompass only sexual behavior and/or matters of religious belief. It's a helluva lot bigger than that. Philosophy 101.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:27 PM

"Because they WANT a poor system or they would change it/"

Nonsense! They don't change it because they don't realize it IS poor. They are hammered with slogans by special interests who sell the idea that 'this' or 'that' little side issue IS the best for them...despite all the negative repercussions. It is "divide & conquer" taken to extremes. Promise them unlimited guns...or no abortions...or fences against immigrants... or evolution deleted from textbooks....etc., and they'll forget their air is polluted and they have lousy health care!


Dr. Pangloss would have a field day in this atmosphere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 09:32 PM

////I see no reason that a majority Republican House would be more inclined to cooperate with Democrats than they have the last two years.////

Exactly. In two years, the republicans and tea party will have nothing to show for themselves except gridlock. People will still be unemployed, houses will still be getting foreclosed, the debt will keep growing. All of this happened on the republican watch so why believe they can or will stop it? By '12, the public will be ready to vote the bums out again. Then the dems will get back in and then be thrown right back out. It's actually pretty funny.

We're always crying about the debt but will kill any politician who dared to say we have to raise taxes across the board to get it under control. We always want them to fix it fix it fix it!!! But as soon as we're called upon to make the necessary sacrifice we get furious. WHAT ABOUT THE RICH???? Well Obama's raising their taxes and you're ready to vote him out--so what about the rich? Fix the system but don't take anything away from me. In fact, I want more. More more more more more! So all Congress can do is nothing. And then we get mad at them for doing nothing and vote them out. That's why I hope the GOP and tea party win big. Let's see them squirm for a change. 10 to 1 they'll start yacking about gay marriage and abortion to cover up their ineffectiveness. We'll see how far that goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 10:39 PM

A Record To Be Proud Of
(Progressive.org)

Regardless of what happens in the voting booths today, the 111th Congress will be coming to an end. According to polls, many people -- in fact, most Democrats -- may be happy to see it go: a recent Pew and National Journal survey shows that only one-third of Democrats think this Congress achieved more than recent congresses, while 60 percent think it has achieved the same or less. Unfortunately, this perception is divorced from reality.

The 111th Congress has been easily one of the most productive congresses in American history, having passed major reforms of health care, the financial sector, and the student loan industry, while also pumping a massive stimulus bill into the economy that helped save or create millions of jobs. The New York Times described this Congress as one whose accomplishments rival "any other since the New Deal in scope or ambition."

A FOCUS ON ECONOMY: When Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)   gaveled in the 111th Congress in January 2009, the country faced severe problems, none more pressing than a cratering economy. The unemployment rate had skyrocketed since 2007 with no signs of relenting, and the private sector needed a jump start. In its first month, the 111th Congress passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which President Obama quickly signed into law. The non-partisan CBO found that the bill created 3.7 million jobs, and GDP and manufacturing have both grown steadily over the past year. The bill also included significant tax cuts. The Tax Policy Center found that the tax cuts contained in the stimulus bill saved an average of $1,179 for 96.9 percent of U.S. households in 2009. Congress later passed, and Obama signed, the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010 , which cut taxes by $12 billion for small businesses and leveraged $300 billion in private sector lending for small businesses. Congress also passed -- and Obama signed -- a $26 billion   jobs bill to save over 300,000 teachers, police, and other public workers from layoffs. Congress provided additional stimulus for the economy with the   Hire Act, which created up to 300,000 jobs by starting a payroll tax holiday and other tax credits for businesses that hire unemployed workers, and with an extension to unemployment benefits for those still unable to find work in a tough economy. Aside from these major steps to jump-start the economy, the 111th Congress also reformed several dysfunctional institutions. The   Affordable Care Act transformed the country's health care system, by reforming health insurers' discriminatory practices, expanding Medicaid coverage, and income-based help for health care, and creating health insurance exchanges where consumers can shop for high-value coverage. The Wall Street reform bill ended taxpayer-funded bailouts of large financial institutions, created numerous regulations to prevent irresponsible behavior by such institutions, and created the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection to serve as a Wall Street watchdog. The 111th Congress also reformed the student loan industry by passing a bill that marked the largest investment in college aid in history: it increased Pell Grants, strengthened community colleges, and ended wasteful subsidies to private lenders. The bill is expected to pump $100 billion into the economy thanks to the increased earnings of new students who can take advantage of the reforms. Congress also passed the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which restored basic protections against pay discrimination towards women.

THE LITTLE THINGS MATTER: While these issues -- the stimulus measures, and reforms of the health insurance, financial, and student loan industries -- received much national attention, there were myriad other small acts that went largely unnoticed but figure to create significant improvements for many Americans. For example, the Credit Cardholders' Bill of Rights created significant protections against deception and abuse by credit card companies. The Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act tripled volunteerism opportunities and increased college financial awards. The Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act guaranteed access to medications and care for low-income patients with AIDS and HIV. The U.S. Manufacturing Enhancement Act lowered or eliminated duties on some materials that are not made domestically, so that American manufacturers can compete with foreign manufacturers. For Americans that fly commercial airlines, the Airline Passenger Bill of Rights Act provides improved passenger safety via stronger training requirements for commercial pilots. Congress also passed a bill authorizing the FDA to regulate the advertising, marketing, and manufacturing of tobacco products, which are the leading cause of preventable U.S. deaths.

STILL WORK TO BE DONE: While these measures are no doubt significant, the 111th Congress is leaving a lot of runners on base, with further work to be done on issues such as climate change and immigration reform. The House passed the American Clean Energy and Security Act, also known as the cap-and-trade bill, which would have provided a marketplace in which to regulate dangerous carbon emissions while creating 1.7 million jobs and helping free America from dependence on foreign oil. The Senate has not acted on that bill. The House also passed bills that would have eliminated a liability cap on the damages BP faces for the 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, and that would have given the BP Oil Spill Commission subpoena power to investigate what went wrong. There is still a bill to   create a public option for health insurance on the table, for which Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has promised a vote. Also, the Senate and the House have yet to take action to pass the DREAM Act or comprehensive immigration reform, a promise Obama ran on in 2008. The House also passed the Disclose Act, which would prohibit foreign entities and government contractors from influencing American elections, while establishing extensive disclosure rules for political contributions. Two bills in the House, the Jobs for Main Street Act and the Small Business & Infrastructure Jobs Act, would create significant investment in American infrastructure through redirection of TARP funds and by increasing bonds and tax breaks for infrastructure development. All of these issues await action by the 112th Congress, which has large legislative shoes to fill, despite what the polls say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 10:44 PM

Well, it's the Dems own damn fault for wallowing in their complacency, letting a minority party run rough shod over them, so nothing would get done....also it is their fault for thinking the tea party movement would split the republican party, when it was obvious nothing of the sort would occur. Now, we have to pay for their laziness, and their cowardice. Good job, democratic party, and thank you for fucking us over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:19 PM

You think you were fucked over in the last 2 years? Wait until the Republicans take over again. Say goodbye to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA hospitals, sub-rich kids going to college, decent roads, schools, public amenities (libraries, parks, etc). Say goodbye to effective government oversight on industry including the food industry. Say hello to widespread pollution, unlimited open-pit mining and offshore drilling, E. coli cases in the thousands. Say goodbye to living wage jobs, 40-hour work week, overtime, unemployment insurance, OSHA regulations. Say hello to the next great depression as an unregulated Wall Street once again plays "heads I win tails you lose" games with our money and once again their fake money collapses -- with no stimulus bill to pick up the pieces. Say hello to the new robber barons, child labor, massive unemployment, huge "Palinvilles" of jobless, homeless people sleeping out of doors (and dying of hunger because the government agencies that might feed them are gone).

What? This is overreacting, you say? These are (just some of) the things that government does for us, and the Republicans have said, with their mouths, that [i]government is the problem and not the solution[/i] and have shown with their votes that they are doing everything in their power to dismantle government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:31 PM

Some leader they've got in the Senate: Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell told the National Journal, "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

Now, there's something to be real proud of and I'll bet that's definitely why the sons a'bitches voted them in, too, just to get that upstart outta there!

Oh ye gawds and gawdesses!


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: josepp
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:35 PM

////Nonsense! They don't change it because they don't realize it IS poor. They are hammered with slogans by special interests who sell the idea that 'this' or 'that' little side issue IS the best for them...despite all the negative repercussions. It is "divide & conquer" taken to extremes. Promise them unlimited guns...or no abortions...or fences against immigrants... or evolution deleted from textbooks....etc., and they'll forget their air is polluted and they have lousy health care!////

And I'm supposed to feel sorry for slugs this idiotic??? I beg to differ, me boy. People this stupid should be put up against a wall and shot. If that's America's electorate then this country is doomed and done for and high time too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:38 PM

Actually katmyluv, "upstart" is not what they mean to say........"Uppiity" something perhaps but I doubt upstart..........


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:51 PM

Yeah, I know, Spawdarlin'...but I just couldn't bring myself to even type that..racism is so alive, isn't it? The bastards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:52 PM

Very good, mousie. How long before it sinks in?


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:34 AM

Hmmm...interesting....

I find it curious, that DEMOCRATS are so anti-DEMOCRACY. It's what the people voted for...somethings went the way I hoped, and some didn't. That is true for virtually all elections..but we live with it. So suck it up, and get over it!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:42 AM

"Disaster" is cyclical in American politics. Don't let it ruin your day. We've seen it all before and we'll see it again....and again...and again. The great game just keeps rolling on, and it gets nastier with each succeeding decade.

The Democrats and Republicans play "good cop---bad cop" with the American public. The public is the one under the bright lights, and the cops are totally in control. The Democrats are the "good cop". They treat you nice, and say nice things, and that gives you hope (unless you hate them). The Republicans are the "bad cop". They get tough with you and shake you down. If you are the type of American who loves the tough cop....think people who love John Wayne, Rambo, Clint Eastwood, Charles Bronson, and all those other Hollywood tough guys who shoot first and talk later...well, you'll LOVE the Republicans and their "get tough" attitude...because you'll figure they're going to get tough with someone ELSE, not you! ;-) Yeah, with all those "evil" forces out there that haunt your anxiety closet.

That's how America is divided and conquered. People instinctively back either the "good cop" (Mom) or the "bad cop" (Dad), according to which one they instinctively run to whenever they figure they need help. Some run to Mom, some run to Dad. Mom is nurturing, Dad gets tough!

The rich bastards at the top of the system know how people do that, and that's why they use those two parties to keep you all mesmerized and fighting with each other. Meanwhile, they run it all, run BOTH of those parties, bank the profits, and rob you blind.

Who do I like when faced with the choice between "good cop" and "bad cop"? Hell, the same as most of you...I like the "good cop" better...the Democrats.

But I am not fooled into imagining that they don't work for the same corporate/banking oligarchy that controls the "bad cop". The oligarchy is your real government, not the bozos you vote into or out of office.

The "good cop" is experiencing some disaster right now. The "bad cop" experienced disaster in 2008. Like I said, it's cyclical. And it will contiune to be cyclical. So if you are a Democrat and want some good news...just wait and see. The cycle will definitely swing your way again in awhile. It always does. It has to.

Every victory is temporary. So is every defeat. And "this too shall pass"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 01:12 AM

It sure is fascinating though.    And there are even some outcomes to cheer tonight.

#1 to cheer on my list is that it seems Meg Whitman spent $140 million of her own money to win the governorship of California.

And lost.

Somehow, that is very satisfying.

(Admittedly there might be better uses for the $140 million--world hunger, for instance.)

But it's still nice to know that sometimes no matter how much money you have to spend , you may not win.




Then there are some truly weird results--such as Manchin's win in WV---in which he ran as far away from President Obama as possible--even going so far as to stage an ad in which he literally shot a bill to ribbons--was it cap and trade?

And in WV, it seems his approach worked.

I suppose it pays to know your target (so to speak) audience.

And of course, I know the President and other Democrats gave him their blessing.

As my father used to say," We pay off on results."    Result was keeping Byrd's seat.






The other thing I was thinking about is issues the President should push in the next 2 years.   Seems to me a comprehensive immigration solution--with a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants should be close to the top of the list.

It's the right thing to do

But also, political benefits:

1)   Cementing the Hispanic vote-- (aside from Florida, for which he should seek to push travel to Cuba)--in the Democratic column. As the fastest growing ethnic group, this is necessary---and it will put the Republicans squarely on the wrong side of demographics.

2) In fact it will also likely split the Republicans--since the business community is actually on the side of a comprehensive immigration solution.   So it's likely to cause a Republican civil war--with the Tea Party wing on the other side of the issue. Could be some very entertaining fireworks.




What the Democrats should do now is make it clear that there will be no other person even considered as presidential nominee than President Obama.   Let all the bloody and expensive primaries be on the other side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Genie
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 01:22 AM

akenaton, I think it's both presumptuous and incorrect to assume that most American Mudcatters view politics as a "my team v. their team" thing.

I think most of us - the ones who usually post in the political threads - have principles and goals we believe in.   Not that many decades ago in US politics, it was not uncommon to find people in both major parties who shared many common goals and policies, but the Republican Party has moved further and further to the "right-wing" end of the spectrum, and in the last few years (especially since the election of Obama), their stated strategy (at least in Congress) has been to block whatever legislation the Democrats propose -- even if many of them have supported such legislation when they were in power -- so that they can run against the Democrats by pointing to their lack of accomplishments.    That party has become much more unified and regimented in their voting.   The Republicans that many of us liberals/progressives may have supported in the past have been drummed out of that party.

This does not mean we support Democrats just because they are Democrats. In fact, many of us are highly critical of that party and, especially, of some of its members in Congress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 01:49 AM

What Genie said.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 01:53 AM

"this perception is divorced from reality. "

Amos. Why are you continuously spouting that the majority of the people are not in touch with reality?

Wake up man. You're like a bug running from rock to rock trying to find something secure to cling to. Somewhere to hide from the mean old world.

You spend hours every day picking through the shit coming from congress and the administration to find a few undigested kernels of corn so you can talk about how great they are.

You must have lost your sense of smell.

Wake up man. You're like a bug running from rock to rock trying to find something secure to cling to. Somewhere to hide from the mean old world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 02:19 AM

Ron Davies: "And it's obvious that the gridlock we have now will, if anything, be worse in the next Congress."

Not particularly. It depends on IF the 'representatives' finally decide to LISTEN to the American public, and work WITH each other.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Genie
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 02:23 AM

What Mousethief said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 05:02 AM

Does no one recognise the importance of an apolitical grass roots movement?

If you were real progressives you would be supporting such a movement regardless of which direction it was taking in the short term.

As LH says we are defeated by division and like it or not, America is a centre right nation...as is the UK.
Now, the important thing is to start dismantling the corporacy and its attack dogs. This can only be effected from the centre right.....after that its up to progressives to change hearts and minds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Disaster for the Democrats?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 05:09 AM

Looks like the same situation we have in 1994....and then the Newt Gingrich House made fools of themselves, but somehow they kept control of the House until 2006.
Let's hope that doesn't happen again.


-Joe-


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