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BS: The Drugging of our Children

Ed T 29 Oct 10 - 06:52 PM
Emma B 29 Oct 10 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,Neil D 29 Oct 10 - 01:16 PM
Jack Campin 29 Oct 10 - 12:23 PM
Emma B 29 Oct 10 - 11:41 AM
bankley 29 Oct 10 - 11:24 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 11:06 AM
Amergin 29 Oct 10 - 11:02 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 10:58 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 29 Oct 10 - 10:58 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 29 Oct 10 - 10:52 AM
Emma B 29 Oct 10 - 10:49 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 29 Oct 10 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,leeneia 29 Oct 10 - 10:40 AM
Greg F. 29 Oct 10 - 10:34 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 10:00 AM
Emma B 29 Oct 10 - 09:47 AM
Jack Campin 29 Oct 10 - 08:30 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 29 Oct 10 - 08:01 AM
Emma B 29 Oct 10 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,Patsy 29 Oct 10 - 07:18 AM
Jack Campin 29 Oct 10 - 06:15 AM
GUEST,Patsy 29 Oct 10 - 05:56 AM
Acorn4 29 Oct 10 - 05:24 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 29 Oct 10 - 04:25 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:52 PM

My son had problems from day one at school. In elementary, I spent many after hour visits with teachers and in the principals office on his behaviour problems.

One older caring teacher called me at home and suggested that she felt he had ADD, which was at the root of the problems. She indicated she had suggested a physiological assessment, but there was poor hope to get one through the school system. She suggested I push for an assessment through my physician. I did this and was successful. The condition was confirmed. He was diaginosed as having a classic ADD condition.

He was put on Ritalin, and I saw immediate improvement. I struggled to understand the condition, and do anything I could to make a difference, without a drug. I was not successful. I was originally opposed to giving a child any drug. But, it worked for him and I only saw positive benefits. Did it harm him in other ways? I have not seen it, but it is possible? Doctors told me that since Ritalin is an older drug, it's applicationsshows it is safe, and much safer than most newer alternative drugs.

The next year, a new teacher took a special interest in my son. He understood ADD and techniques which these children could apply, with parents help, to cope. He explained that ADD children are intelligent, but get bored very easy. Because of this, learning can be difficult.

This teacher kept a watchful eye on my son in his class, as well with teachers in my sons other classes. With the kind and interested intervention of this teacher teacher, I learned about ADD and how to structure learning beyond to benefit my son. Because of this, he excelled in school, and into University, where he graduated with very high marks.

He made an unsuccessful attempt to get off ritalin in high school. His marks went down significantly as his concentration clearly suffered. He then began taking them only on school days,gradually weaning himself off them on his own. He no longer takes medication. It works well for him, at this point in his life. Through studies, and on his own, he garnered a very good understanding of the ADD condition.

He is now out there in the workforce, making a fine contribution to his family and society.

Would I accept Ritalin again? Part of me says no (since I am generally opposed to drugs), but under the same circumstances, most likely yes. I feel for parents going through this dilema.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 02:00 PM

Here's a business opportunity for you LH from the guy who produced 'The Drugging of our Children

Gary Null's home-based business opportunity is for people who:
want to be role models for health and happiness for others
are passionate about sharing Gary's information with their circle of friends, relatives and acquaintances
are motivated to earn extra money

Here's what you get:
Guidance to put together starter kits with products like:
Green stuff
Red stuff
Super Antioxidant
Heavenly Aloe
Friendly Fiber
Muscle powder (or any of the other protein powder that Gary sells)
Suprema C

Plus

Preferential pricing for Gary Null's signature retreats, in fact, $700/week off of the regular price to attend!

All you have to do…..

go to www.amazon.com and purchase the following books by Gary Null if you don't already have them:
The Complete Encyclopedia of Natural Healing
Get Healthy Now!
Power Aging
Mind Power
Gary Null's Guide to a Joyful Healthy Life
For Women Only!
Then

Order at least $700 worth of supplements to sell with your first order, and $500 for subsequent orders.

Schedule your first presentation and display your products. You can also have Luanne Pennesi, RN speak at your presentations or help you with a template to get started for a nominal fee.

***PLEASE NOTE!! IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO INVEST THE $700 AND STILL WANT TO EARN $$ BY SELLING GARY'S PRODUCTS, YOU CAN BE A PART OF A DROP SHIP PROGRAM WHERE YOU CAN STILL SHOW GARY'S DVD'S AND HAVE PEOPLE PLACE ORDERS THROUGH YOU, AND YOU WILL RECEIVE A 10% COMMISSION CHECK WITH EACH ORDER, paid out quarterly

What is Red Stuff?

At $49.45 for 200g it consists of 'low temperature dehydrated juices' and 'offers the convenience of fresh fruit juices in a jar' and is awarded the Diabetes Resource Center's Seal of Approval

The Diabetes Resource Center, Inc., referred to was at 175 5th Street in Winter Haven, Florida. According to the Florida Secretary of State's records, this entity was registered registered on 3/27/97 and underwent "administrative dissolution" on 10/16/98. The "registered agent" was Sandy D. Corlett, who has no health related credentials is identified on many Web sites as the Center's president. The database also lists a for-profit entity called DRC Publications, Inc., which Corlett registered on 8/14/95 and reported as dissolved on the same date as the Center.

Seems to me that fresh fruit juice in a glass would be almost as convenient and a lot cheaper - not to mention more 'natural'!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 01:16 PM

Once again Emma B. has brought the most useful and objective information to a thread. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 12:23 PM

"Natural solutions" are not always simple, and certainly aren't with this one.

It's similar to obesity in that it's largely a consequence of advanced capitalist culture. Which doesn't make it easy for people to opt out of the lifestyles that keep the profit system profitable. One of the most effective ways to deal with ADHD is to restructure the child's time, so it gets more sleep and less distracting external and chemical stimuli. Now try reordering your life to cut out TV programmes the whole family has been watching for years, prevent a kid using a video console it only got upgraded last birthday, find a source of additive-free drinks at an affordable price, find a new school so the kid can walk to it, find the kid a network for new friends that don't need mobiles to keep in touch with other. Chances are you will need to do *most* of those and then some. This is far beyond what most parents of ADHD kids can manage on the resources they've got.

One particularly twisted wrinkle on it: in some regions, parents can get substantial financial benefits for having an officially diagnosed ADHD child. Enough to make a real difference to the family budget. The parent can get the child stabilized by environmental and dietary interventions, then realize, shit, the money's dried up. So a couple of months later the kid is back on the diet Irn Bru and hours a day on the PSP, in between bouts of tearing the house apart and window-smashing tantrums at school. But see how the money rolls in. (Just to be clear, this is not some Daily Mail rant about "benefit scroungers", I just happen to know it happens with this condition, and where).


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 11:41 AM

"One is mainstream conventional medicine and the big drug companies.
The other is alternative medicine and natural cures."

Too simplistic LH

I believe in both 'conventional' western medicine and complimentary medicine and have benefitted from both; in fact I have had my life saved on two occasions by conventional medication and had my GP recommend an osteopath for one condition and suggest diet changes to help to deal with another.

While there may be a lot of truth in Willie's observation that GPs in the UK are often under far too much pressure from patients who believe there is a golden pill for everything that ails them, medically or socially, I don't think this implies that GPs are somehow disreputably hand in glove with the pharmaceutical companies
The General Medical Council specifically decrees
'If you have financial or commercial interests in organisations providing healthcare or in pharmaceutical or other biomedical companies, these interests must not affect the way you prescribe for, treat or refer patients'
(The Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry's Code of Practice for the Pharmaceutical Industry, covers inducements, hospitality and other issues)
Generic prescribing, for example, is one of the ways in which the NHS saves money that can be better spent elsewhere.

I've nothing against using 'natural' cures for the annual miserable cold either (and do!) but I'm not sure it's the answer to agressive cancer

I do have qualms however about the peddling of 'quack' cures that claim to give hope to people prepared to spend almost anything on a sick child or relative which not only have no effect but may even cause more harm

There are fraudsters in any area that money can be made by fraud
Health fraudsters can take advantage of the back-to-nature movement, capitalizing on the notion that there ought to be (and sometimes are) simple, natural solutions.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: bankley
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 11:24 AM

"just a spoonful of aspertame makes the medicine go down"

and that's some nasty stuff...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 11:06 AM

Absolutely! ;-) Let's keep the little buggers well sedated at all times. Much easier that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 11:02 AM

I think drugging the children is a very good idea....otherwise the little monsters will run wild and have minds of their own. However, I believe it should be recommended to have them drink some whiskey when they take their ritalin.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:58 AM

There are 2 sets of diametrically opposed viewpoints on this type of thing, both very assured of their authoritative sources and evidence, both very righteous in their accusations, both out to debunk and accuse the other, both with their esteemed practitioners and spokesmen. You can read up on both of them to bolster your chosen views, and quote them vociferously to other people. You will have a deep and abiding faith in either one of them or the other.

One is mainstream conventional medicine and the big drug companies.

The other is alternative medicine and natural cures.

Depending on your chosen form of faith, you will usually (if not always) back one of them and damn the other.

And no amount of back and forth arguing on this forum will change your opinion one iota, but it will eat up a large amount of your valuable time and possibly cause you to develop longstanding grudges against people here who think differently about it than you do. And won't that be just ducky. ;-) (rolling my eyes)

That's why I figure I'll just bail out now, instead of getting involved further in the perpetual motion machine...

Get medical help any way you want to, and go to whom you trust. That's what I do.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:58 AM

Jack, stop being silly and taking serious comments out of context to feed your weird views. Just because there are many kids that you describe, that doesn't mean that unnecessary make believe conditions aren't being "discovered" by those who just happen to have the antidote...

Normal behaviour is being turned into clinical conditions. I'm not saying, just repeating it having been convinced of the argument from my lay perspective.

The British Medical Journal, the New England Journal of Medicine, (I think that is what it is called, no copies lying around at present,) or Bad Science by Ben whassisname as references to dig into if you are minded.

In the meantime, giving medication for things that do not need medication, never needed it and in many cases down to a spurious condition, the research for which was kick started by a drug company.

All they have to do is show a result slightly better than placebo, (50/50 chance at worst) and they can market it in most countries. Those countries who refuse get their other drugs at higher prices till they back down. (The NHS Prescription Pricing Authority can write the book on that one.)

Lazy prescribing by GPs who reluctantly accept that writing a prescription gets the ruddy woman and her funny looking kid (FLK) out of his consulting room quicker. (The British Medical Association, the UK doctors' trade union, used lazy prescribing of antibiotics as proof that the government want more throughput of patients. they admitted that this leads to giving the things out as it is quicker than explaining that they don't really need them!)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:52 AM

Oops, I seem to have completely missed the point there! We're discussing prescribed drugs not recreational drugs of course. But irrespective of that, society has changed in numerous ways which could equally account for the increases in recreational drug use.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:49 AM

Gary Null (who produced the video 'The Drugging of Our Children') believes implicitly that physicians have an economic interest in sickness maintenance, not prevention
He co-authored a series of articles on cancer research, new therapies, and political influence for Penthouse, beginning with one entitled "The Great Cancer Fraud" in which he accused the medical profession of having a "solid-gold cancer train."

In 1999 Time critically wrote: "From a young reporter this is to be expected. But two decades later, Null, 54, is still warning of a variety of medical bogeymen out to gull a trusting public"

NULL IS ALSO A PROMOTER OF AIDS DENIALISM, THE BELIEF THAT HIV IS HARMLESS OR DOES NOT EXIST, and is not the cause of AIDS.

Null sells self-produced films on his website that promote AIDS denialism

His videos have been aired by PBS during pledge drives, but concern arose within PBS over the sensational claims they contained, with Ervin Duggan, the president of PBS, expressing concern with the network "opening the door to quacks and charlatans."

Null is the owner of the dietary supplement and media company Gary Null & Associates, Inc. Stephen Barrett of the alternative medicine watchdog website, Quackwatch has criticized the validity of several of his commercial products

As an American talk radio host and dietician Null is of course entitled to his point of view about medical conditions and their best treatment

Personally I would prefer to consider the view of Dr Billy Levin discussing ADHD

"There is a world of information, written by experts that is available for the purpose of enlightening people who have an interest in this field.
The amount of information is inconceivable and it is accurate and scientific.

There is equally as much, if not more, mis-information that is made public. This needs to be addressed very seriously.

FOR MANY REASONS IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE MIS-INFORMATION IS MORE READILY READ THAN THE FACTS.

This can only be a tragedy where patients are involved. This is not only my opinion. It can be justified with references.
It would be vital for any committee sitting to deliberate about the use of Ritalin, the pros the cons, the methods of assessment and diagnosis, to obtain correct information from authoritative sources and so counter mis-use due to ignorance.

This whole volatile and emotive situation about the use of Ritalin, and the diagnosis of these childrens' condition has been going on for probably the last 30 years or more without a final solution being reached. Yet throughout these years, one thing has been constant. Experts have always suggested that Ritalin is safe, effective, but needs to be used correctly for the right type of patient.

Ritalin is part of the treatment. It is not "THE" treatment..

These children do need motivation especially from the parents, educational help from the teachers and they have a very important role to play in overcoming their own problems."


- Ritalin, was one of the first medications introduced (amphetamines were first) to treat children with ADHD and it has been around for just about 50 years - first introduced in 1956


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:47 AM

You could draw a lot of *other* graphs depicting the dramatic ways in which society has changed since 1945 too.

I'm not arguing that modern weed isn't potentially harmful (it's far stronger than it used to be, and heavy usage definitely can be harmful) but modern mental and behavioral problems in children can't all be placed at the door of recreational drug use.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:40 AM

Draw a graph of illegal drug use among people age 17-40 from 1945 till now.

Draw another of alcohol consumption. One for men and one for women.

Draw another of marijuana consumption.

Now draw a graph of 'hyperactive kids' and 'austistic children.'

Then stop kidding yourselves about where these genetically damaged kids are coming from.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:34 AM

Seems I can remember a time when we didn't giove kids penecillin- 'cause it didn't exist.

Also a time we didn't give kids vaccinations for childhood diseases- because the vaccines didn't exist.

I'm sure the children who died as a result were better off being dead, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:00 AM

Yes, yes, and yes, Lizzie.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 09:47 AM

"ADHD does not exist as a real psychiatric disorder; rather, it is an unfortunate labelling of normal childhood behaviour promulgated by ineffectual parents, incompetent teachers and the pharmaceutical industry."

Myth or fact?

The symptoms distractibility, impulsivity, and hyperactivity are consistent with the 'normal' behaviour of many pre school children although the age range 5-7 years is usually considered the 'transition' period during which young children begin to show more "executive control", they become better at planning ahead, thinking abstractly, focusing attention, and inhibiting socially inappropriate behaviour - the sort of age in which children would be expected to adhere to the rules in games for example

Where do we draw the line between developmentally normal behaviour and medical disorder?
There remains a considerable controversy

Concerns have been expressed about the over diagnosis of ADHD coupled with a corresponding upsurge in the prescription of stimulant medication
Some of the criticism does not reject the concept of ADHD as a valid disorder, but alleges that children with problematic behaviour are often diagnosed with ADHD when the behaviour may result from other causes
The symptoms of ADHD can occur with several different disorders, for example the attention span, the activity levels, and the impulsivity can also be observed in depression, psychotic disorders, and other conditions and there is also a risk of misdiagnosis


However people like Sami Timimi, an NHS child and adolescent psychiatrist, attempt to explain ADHD as a social construct rather than an objective 'disorder' and opposes pathologizing the symptoms of ADHD
This is not necessarily to deny a valid condition, for example obesity has different cultural constructs but yet has demonstratable adverse effects associated with it.
{Remember 'willie' that even halitosis has a significant impact —personally and socially — on those who suffer from it}

A minority of critics maintain that ADHD was "invented and not discovered" and insist [ADHD] is a fraud perpetrated by the psychiatric and pharmaceutical industries on families anxious to understand or explain their children's behavior

The Scientology cult and other organization who regard psychiatry as hegemonic have also campaigned vigorously against diagnosis and medication while proponents of neurodiversity assert that atypical neurological development is a normal human difference that is to be tolerated and respected as any other human difference.

Additionally, the drug firms financial conflict of interests in the US (Children and Adults with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, CHADD, an ADHD advocacy group based in Landover, MD received a total of $1,169,000 in 2007 from pharmaceutical companies - 26 percent of their budget) has also added to cynicism and controversy
In the 1990s the United States used 90% of the stimulants produced globally!

Despite such criticism, NHS guidelines consider ADHD represented a valid clinical condition with genetic, environmental, neurobiological, and demographic factors


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:30 AM

Turning normal behaviour into a clinical condition?

If your idea of normal behaviour for a 10-year-old is drinking a couple of litres of diet cola a day, staying glued to the TV or a video game until the small hours, and spending every spare minute listening to MP3s on a mobile phone or compulsively texting, your sense of normality is pretty badly deficient.

What to do about it is another matter. An effective and natural therapy, given a parent who thinks the above is normal, is to take the parent into a back room, shoot it, and dispose of the remains as hazardous chemical waste.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:01 AM

Turning normal behaviour into a clinical condition?

Methinks the thread on direct action could be relevant here. instead of rallying against the government for their policies, demonstrate against the pharmaceutical industry for making us more and more dependent on their products, usually for commercial rather than health purposes.


Then, perhaps I might carry a banner with you.

Look up the origins of the "condition" halitosis....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:30 AM

The problem of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and education was discussed in The Times Educational Supplement 2 years ago when guidelines on managing such behaviour, published by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice), recommend that the use of Ritalin should be reined in and that teachers could help provide alternative solutions.

Fintan O'Regan, educational consultant with the national Attention Deficit Disorder Information and Support Service (Addiss) and author of several books on how to manage behaviour commented that "To get through school, you have to be able to do periods of boredom, and if you have ADHD you can't."

Although advocating well trained teachers he also added that

""The third factor is being open-minded to options available, including medication."

From the same article -

"There is no single obvious cause.
ADHD is diagnosed through behaviour, and the diagnosis need not imply a medical or neurological cause. There can also be a genetic influence. Some research links ADHD to damage to the development of the brain.

There is also some link between additives and levels of hyperactivity.

How many children have it?
About 3 per cent of school-age children and young people in the UK

How many children are prescribed drugs?
It is thought as many as 55,000 have been prescribed drugs for ADHD,

The National Institute of Clinical Excellence (Nice) has said the drug should not be routinely prescribed and never to under-fives.
It should be reserved for the 41 per cent with severe symptoms or for those with moderate levels of impairment who have refused non-drug interventions, or whose symptoms have not responded sufficiently to other approaches.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:18 AM

I didn't say that ACID was relevant to ADHD what I am saying is whatever else the kids are getting now there seems to be more youngsters effected in this way unless of course the professionals can spot problems better than they did back then.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:15 AM

How is acid supposed to be relevant to ADHD? (I took it a few times. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it wasn't, I don't regret it any way and I don't have ADD).

Ritalin polarizes opinions more than it ought to. For some kids it may well be appropriate, at least for a while. More often it's prescribed because neither the doctor nor the parent has the guts to say NO to television, MP3 players, mobile phones and computer games. ADHD is usually just a natural response to a toxic lifestyle deranged by excessive electronics and insufficient silence.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 05:56 AM

Hello Lizzie, there were one or two in my school in the early 70s who experimented with acid but they were very few. It was usually (argueably) the more so called thinking or arty young people of the school. But the rest of us had heard so many bad stories about people jumping out of windows etc. that we just did not want to take the risk. Not only that my school had quite a bad reputation and all we wanted to do was get out of there and find a job. A friend of mine had experimented and later suffered from flashbacks and just hearing her say that kept me away from it.

Funny that you come to mention it there are far more many instances of mental illnesses in the young generation now than ever before and far more cases of young people having to be sectioned and put into the high-dependency units. I wonder why too.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Acorn4
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 05:24 AM

They didn't drug kids in our day, but a whole generation of middle aged people became hooked on vallium

I'm with you 100% on drug companies.


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Subject: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 04:25 AM

"I don't remember anyone I went to school with being on a mind-altering medication, but now the number of children on drugs in this country is astronomical..." - taken from Part 1 of the film below.

The Drugging of our Children - Parts 1 - 13

I don't remember anyone being on medication either, and I went to the roughest school in my neighbourhood...

'Ritalin Grin' - Youtube


So, are the drug companies pushing their drugs on to children because, hell, if you get 'em hooked early on, then you have them....for LIFE! ?

NEVER has this happened before...It's a huge problem in the US and now it's over here in the UK...

"Why didn't my generation, the baby-boomer generation have this? Why didn't we have thousands of kids committing suicide when I was going to school, or when you were going to school......shooting up their class mates for no apparent reason?" (again, taken from the film above)

And listen to the Mum who talks of her little boy being reported to her in KINDERGARTEN (!!!) for not sitting on his chair, not focussing...??????

If you made your own child sit on a chair for HOURS in your house and study, study, study, do you think they'd be happy? Do you think they'd sit there? Do you think they'd learn? Do you think...they might start to resent you, after day, after day, after day of being made to do exactly the same thing, year after year.....

From The New Generation of Educational Thought...
'He's fidgeting!'
'Oh my GOD!! DRUG HIM!!!

This is a shocking, but highly informative film...and every parent and teacher should watch it.


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