mudcat.org: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4]


EFDSS AGM , Wassup?

RTim 02 Dec 10 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,Felicity Greenland 30 Nov 10 - 07:29 AM
mikesamwild 29 Nov 10 - 08:42 AM
Les in Chorlton 28 Nov 10 - 11:16 AM
The Sandman 28 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM
mikesamwild 28 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,folkiedave 25 Nov 10 - 06:23 PM
Les in Chorlton 25 Nov 10 - 12:17 PM
Fidjit 25 Nov 10 - 12:15 PM
Spleen Cringe 25 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,cs 25 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM
Les in Chorlton 25 Nov 10 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,FloraG 25 Nov 10 - 10:11 AM
mattkeen 25 Nov 10 - 09:57 AM
Les in Chorlton 25 Nov 10 - 09:41 AM
Folkiedave 25 Nov 10 - 09:26 AM
Les in Chorlton 25 Nov 10 - 08:19 AM
mattkeen 25 Nov 10 - 08:00 AM
Les in Chorlton 25 Nov 10 - 06:46 AM
johnadams 25 Nov 10 - 06:26 AM
Les in Chorlton 25 Nov 10 - 05:48 AM
Brian Peters 25 Nov 10 - 05:14 AM
GUEST,cs 25 Nov 10 - 04:41 AM
Les in Chorlton 25 Nov 10 - 04:18 AM
johnadams 24 Nov 10 - 06:56 PM
johnadams 24 Nov 10 - 06:40 PM
Gozz 24 Nov 10 - 06:04 PM
Surreysinger 24 Nov 10 - 05:55 PM
Folkiedave 24 Nov 10 - 05:15 PM
The Sandman 24 Nov 10 - 01:28 PM
GUEST 24 Nov 10 - 01:10 PM
The Sandman 24 Nov 10 - 01:01 PM
Gozz 24 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM
Howard Jones 24 Nov 10 - 12:36 PM
Gozz 24 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM
Les in Chorlton 24 Nov 10 - 08:47 AM
The Sandman 24 Nov 10 - 08:31 AM
mikesamwild 24 Nov 10 - 07:54 AM
Les in Chorlton 22 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 22 Nov 10 - 11:37 AM
The Sandman 22 Nov 10 - 08:24 AM
mikesamwild 22 Nov 10 - 08:18 AM
The Sandman 21 Nov 10 - 12:08 PM
Paul Davenport 21 Nov 10 - 11:47 AM
Howard Jones 21 Nov 10 - 08:24 AM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 10 - 01:56 PM
tritoneman 20 Nov 10 - 12:19 PM
Matthew Edwards 20 Nov 10 - 12:16 PM
Les in Chorlton 20 Nov 10 - 11:48 AM
mikesamwild 20 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: RTim
Date: 02 Dec 10 - 12:42 PM

At risk of re-opening old (and very sore) wounds!
I have just renewed my EFDSS membership for next year.

That is £39 per annum, or at current rates $60.86 - less than a pound per week
and in the USA (where I live) less than the cost of a Sunday Boston Globe per week.

I think it well spend, and I don't want to discuss what it costs me to visit Cecil Sharp House.

Tim Radford


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: GUEST,Felicity Greenland
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 07:29 AM

If I were to be able to attend the AGM I would really enjoy choosing my evening's activity from the wide range of folk events going on in the Sheffield area.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 08:42 AM

Soldier -The Chief Exec blamed lack of communication between the Board and the paid staff, but there had been serious offers from good people. chance missed!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 11:16 AM

Well grumped Soldier!

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

"The EFDSS gave up doing festivals a long time ago".
more is the pity, the problem is theyve given up so many things, including having the sense to provide music at their sheffield agm.
which wanker was responsible for that stupid decision, it would   have cost very little to involve local EFDSS musicians to provide a ceilidh and song spots.
I cant say i am surprised


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM

John A. Re Folk Arts England. I think that initiative undermined local initiatives and I believe that Ryburn 3Step et al deserve all the financial support they can get.
When we set up South Riding Folk Network we did get affiliation and a few hundred from EFDSS through the good offices of Brenda Godrich, but volunteer burnout etc meant that the work wasn't sustained as much as it could have been despite some great work.

I note from the latest 'Board matters' from EFDSS that ACE funding is reduced by 6.9% The next round of funding (2012/13) requires fresh bids by end of jan 2011.


As it always makes sense to match the funders criteria, maybe 'The Big Society' woud make our depressed regions a deserving case, traditional and folk arts are important grassroots cultural forms in forging and maintaining local and regional identity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:23 PM

The EFDSS gave up doing festivals a long time ago. They are unlikely to revive an interest.

Celtic Connections is not wholly Celtic by the way!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:17 PM

Good cool summing Mr C

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Fidjit
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:15 PM

quote From: mattkeen < and I think they ought to be doing PR show case type of events as well >

Something like Celtic Connections, but entirely English would be good.

Chas


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM

Going slightly off topic for a minute, the article about the history behind the ballad "Mill O'Tifty's Annie" in the hot-off-the-press latest edition of the Folk Music Journal is really fascinating stuff and I'd urge people to give it a read.

I'm very pleased that my subscription includes a copy of this publication. My view is that FMJ and other publications, the library/archives, an ongoing digitisation programme and some outreach/education work - especially linking songs, dances and folklore to regional/local history - should be core to the organisation's work. I understand that organising gigs and renting out rooms in C#H is another revenue stream, but as Les and others have said, its not like there's such a lack of grassroots activity, festivals, clubs, singarounds, sessions etc that EFDSS needs to step in and put things right - even if it could. And the experience of Ryedale 3 Step, Yorkshire Garland and similar groups show that local/regional initiatives can happen anyway, if there are committed and inspired individuals willing and able to organise them - no-one needs to wait for EFDSS to start organising regional groups for this sort of thing to happen.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM

Me: The staff service provided as described by Surreysinger sounds very impressive and for anyone interested in research or study exceedingly useful. I wasn't aware of this service before.

Folkiedave: But it is clearly described on the website!!

This is what they say on their website, somewhere in the middle of a paragraph:

"we also welcome phone, email and postal enquiries."

Well, that's nice, but it doesn't exactly give much detail to the casually curious, as to the extent of the service. Most places are willing to receive 'enquiries'. Comapare that to what Brain Peters had to say:

"Last week I emailed the Vaughan Williams Library about a paper published in the Folk Music Journal some time ago. A PDF copy arrived at my terminal within the hour. Earlier in the year I asked them for a song in Cecil Sharp's manuscript. A scan arrived the same day."

Or Surreysinger:

"I had occasion to ring up on one occasion in a quest to track down versions of a certain song gleaned from the Surrey/Sussex borders. After a useful conversation, I received a by return set of photocopies of the various manuscripts containing the suggested versions of the song that I had been discussing. I've also had similar very prompt attention to email enquiries, and have to admit that I've found the assistance given by the staff in these circumstances to be superlative."

To be fair, considering how good the service is, that spare half a sentence on "welcoming enquiries" afforded this service on the website, could be expanded in a bit more detail - or even given it's own whole paragraph with bold heading!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 10:39 AM

IMHO, as they say, the magazine is slight and the articles short. It's not a shame about lack of affiliation it's probably good judgement. Morris in the Olympics wrong setting for a little old bit of folklore

An I still in? Probably but not at all sure why

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 10:11 AM

As a long time but inactive member I thought the recent magazine a good mix of articles and adverts about festivals. I think the listing of festival dates one of the most useful services and the insurance for the band.

We went to the Gipsey orchestra last year. An excellent performance and venuue for it.

However, even though we live in North kent it is not that easy to get to. It suffers from the high costs of being in London but not that central.   

I think it is a shame that not every folk/ dance club think membership worthwhile. I'm nor sure what it is doing to make sure that morris dancing is part of the opening olympics?

We will also continue to be one of the 4000.

FloraG.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: mattkeen
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:57 AM

@ Les
they should be organising and engageing musicians at the AGM - I think they should be doing that. They are not incapable of organising that Les as you well know. They have chosen not to do it - why I have no idea - its an idiotic decision I think

Re: having musicans perform at the AGM: I am not saying anything else - and I think they ought to be doing PR show case type of events as well
They are not mutually exclusive


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:41 AM

The Folk Song Society, The English Dance Society and the EFDSS were at the heart of the so-called First Revival. But it didn't really work - if it's purpose was to get lots of people singing folk songs and dancing folk dances - although the latter may have been more succesful.

The EFDSS was around before and at the start of the Second, but I shall argue, only Revival. Our Revival of the 1960's onwards generated thousands of folk clubs, festivals, dances, bands, singers, musicians and enthusiasts - some certainly more fun than others. We now have a living tradition of songs, dances and customs as that Revival continues.

The EFDSS has a role in that but what it has been and may continue to be is hard to know!

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 09:26 AM

The staff service provided as described by Surreysinger sounds very impressive and for anyone interested in research or study exceedingly useful. I wasn't aware of this service before.

But it is clearly described on the website!! if you want to read for pleasure - as a member of the society there are books you can take out.

And as for libraries being free - here in Sheffield the library service has been struggling under constant financial restraint. I would guess more closures will come along now.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:19 AM

Isn't this:

"PR events (e.g events on the South Bank)"

part of the problem? When EFDSS cannot get a bit of music organised for it's own AGM in Shefield what is the point of events on the South Bank?

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: mattkeen
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:00 AM

Of course libraries aren't free
Public libraries are funded by the tax payer through local authorities for instance

Archive availability on the internet and educational work and the PR events (e.g events on the South Bank)is what I want the EFDSS to be doing
As a member I am thriled at how good the staff are


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:46 AM

Thanks Jon,

you clearly have much expereience within and beyond EFDSS which enables you to see a bigger picture than I certainly can. As ever this forum is not the one to explore something like two Revivals, a hundred + years of history and all the baggage that goes with it.

I am currently re-reading 'The Imagined Village' and my EFDSS membership card arrived today. I really don't know what the EFDSS should be doing to be most effective - maybe I wont?

Best wishes
L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: johnadams
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:26 AM

Les in Chorlton wrote:

I think the discussion is around the general point and purpose of the EFDSS. Perhaps it has shaken off its history long ago and the second revival simply became something much bigger and more effective in terms of 'doing folk'?

Les, the EFDSS will never shake off it's history while Mudcat is around.

As far as the revival is concerned, folk never really went away and hopefully never will. It doesn't need the EFDSS in order to survive and if the society ceased operations tonight, people would continue doing what they do. The society brings a resource and a richness to what we do by constantly caring for bits of our heritage we didn't know we had and consequently might have lost.

I'm not too far away from the opinion of GUEST.cs who suggests that the EFDSS should concentrate on being a custodian of the archive but having spent 10 years of my life trying to turn the society round I'm aware that this is not a financially viable option in the short term.

I agree that the society should get its act together with regard to education but I'm willing to wait a little while at least and see what the new education director puts in place with the newly available funding.

With regard to the regions, this is a thorny problem which plagued the society for all the decade I was involved in its governance. As current chair of Ryburn 3 Step in West Yorkshire I'm aware that we have no need of support from the EFDSS (unless they want to send us some cash) and don't need their guidance. Indeed, members of R3S have acted as consultants to the society on various matters because we have expertise that they can use. It would be useful, however, to have someone like EFDSS help with networking and communication, in much the same way as the AFO tries to support festival organisers. It's something I was hoping for from the now defunct Folk Arts England. Now that EFDSS have taken over the FAE funding I await developments on this front.

While on the subject of regions, I'm a little mystified by Gozz's comment above -

I still wonder what is going on here in the South West where self appointed groups of people seem to ignore what is happening in the grass roots of folk music (and dance - unless you dance their way) .

Do these self appointed people belong to a regional organisation? Is it an old style efdss group? What powers do these self appointed people give themselves? I'm interested to know what you mean.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 05:48 AM

Spot on cs.

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 05:14 AM

"I do not think that the library should make a charge to anyone. Every other library I have used is free"

Free beer would be nice, too. Just try getting access to, say, Manchester University Library, if you think all other libraries are free.

Last week I emailed the Vaughan Williams Library about a paper published in the Folk Music Journal some time ago. A PDF copy arrived at my terminal within the hour. Earlier in the year I asked them for a song in Cecil Sharp's manuscript. A scan arrived the same day.

Sabine Baring-Gould's collection will shortly be available online, thanks to a collaboration between Wren Music (whose members have worked enormously hard on it) and EFDSS. Take 6, of course, is a priceless resource, and one day I'm sure Sharp's material will be added. But these things aren't achieved in an afternoon's work - they cost time and money. I find it staggering that, the year after the launch of a superb resource like Take 6 (available to everyone, not just members), and with more in the pipeline, we are hearing lofty demands from non-members that "the online library needs to be improved".

The lack of music at the Sheffield AGM seems to have been a spectacular own-goal and I have questions about other aspects of strategy as well, nonetheless I intend to remain one of the 4000.

Incidentally, I performed a couple of songs at the AGM in the 1980s and found myself on 'The World This Weekend' - EFDSS was big news in those days!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: GUEST,cs
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 04:41 AM

The staff service provided as described by Surreysinger sounds very impressive and for anyone interested in research or study exceedingly useful. I wasn't aware of this service before.
Even living as close to London as I do, personally I really couldn't care less about the EFDSS putting on shows either in London or elsewhere as that's something any bunch of informed amateur enthusiasts can do (and do do) for themselves if they feel like it. But the archive is an invaluable piece of cultural heritage. If the EFDSS solely focused their efforts on curating and increasing public access via internet, it would seem to me to be providing a far more essential service than any amount of either professional or indeed grass-roots 'activities,' which to be honest I'd see as unnecessary considering the amount of other people-based stuff already going on in various regions. Indeed if the EFDSS were to narrow their remit and focus their efforts on online archiving, I'd be more inclined to join the organisation. I suspect however that my priorities might not match those of much of the rest of the folk world, including current membership.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 04:18 AM

Fair points Jon,

I never doubt that the people in organisations like the EFDSS work hard and do a good job.

I think the discussion is around the general point and purpose of the EFDSS. Perhaps it has shaken off its history long ago and the second revival simply became something much bigger and more effective in terms of 'doing folk'?

Les


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: johnadams
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:56 PM

............and while I'm on the subject, there are some hard working EFDSS members who are not sitting at their computers pontificating about what other people should be doing for their benefit, but sitting at their computers getting on with really useful volunteer work making library content universally accessible.

My colleagues Lewis Jones and Flos Headford have been transcribing loads of the Take 6 Project content into useable alternative formats - all by the sweat of their brow, unpaid - and the fruits of their labours all freely available.

A good starting point to check it out would be this page on Folkopedia


While the EFDSS has many faults (and I have my own issues about some of the gaps in their thinking and strategy) the work that is done by staff and volunteers is valuable and contributes greatly to the health of the folk arts.

You folks might consider supporting it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: johnadams
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:40 PM

The question is, Gozz, who should pay for it?

It's not state funded but it's very well run. For example, it provides a cheaper service (as described by Irene) than the British Library which IS state funded and charges an absolute fortune for photocopies.

Should it be us 4000 members subsidising your free library access?

The online access is as good as the lottery funding has allowed it to be. Perhaps we members should be stumping up a bit more of our hard earned cash to make sure you have better access?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Gozz
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 06:04 PM

Firstly, I do not think that the library should make a charge to anyone. Every other library I have used is free (at the moment). Dick makes a good point about getting there - equally as bad from the South West of England and very expensive.

I do think that the on-line library needs to be improved, so that we can access what we need from anywhere. At the moment I still end up giving up and trying other sites when I am looking for something. I don't have a complete solution to the problem, but if an issue is not recognised no one will do anything about it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:55 PM

Referring to the comments regarding the library's accessibility via phone, email or personal enquiry, as a member I had occasion to ring up on one occasion in a quest to track down versions of a certain song gleaned from the Surrey/Sussex borders. After a useful conversation, I received a by return set of photocopies of the various manuscripts containing the suggested versions of the song that I had been discussing. I've also had similar very prompt attention to email enquiries, and have to admit that I've found the assistance given by the staff in these circumstances to be superlative. Although I live 30 miles from London the cost of train fares, and the location of the House make trips up there for this sort of purpose cost prohibitive. However the attention to my requirements meant that, for the cost of the photocopies, I was able to obtain the information I needed, and to save myself the travel costs. So claiming the information contained therein is pretty damned straightforward and simple (and the additional cost to a non-member is far less than the cost of travelling there!).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 05:15 PM

Well the library has to be situated somewhere. Wherever it is situated will be a long walk from somewhere. This is from the website:

How to access the library

Access to VWML is free to members of the EFDSS who may also borrow some of the materials (UK only). If you can't make it to the library, we also welcome phone, email and postal enquiries. We ask non-members to pay a small fee (£3.50) for library access, whether in person or via enquiry


Its counterpart in Ireland, the Irish Traditional Music Archive is entirely free but does not handle email inquiries.

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Gozz - PM
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM said:

They have a great big library full of our heritage and how do we get to claim it?

It seems legitimate to ask Gozz what he or she would like to happen to the library (our heritage) that isn't happening now.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 01:28 PM

GUEST, Firstly you should have a name otherwise you might be deflated or deleted.
secondly its a long walk from Manchester to SHARP HOUSE.
Thirdly your LAST question is not relevant.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 01:10 PM

They have a great big library full of our heritage and how do we get to claim it?

You could try walking into the RVWML and asking to use whatever you want. That is what most people do.

However what would you like to happen to it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 01:01 PM

. However the point is that these are independent organisations run by enthusiasts, often with limited funding. They are not part of the EFDSS.
that sounds like Comhaltas, the only organisation who provides a fairly comprehensive instrument tuition throughout most of england scotland and wales.
what happens if Comhaltas have to reduce their tuition, the EFDSS[ as custodians of the tradition] have a responsibilty to try and fill the gap, EVEN IF IF IT IS IN A VERY LIMITED WAY.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Gozz
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM

I stand corrected. Thanks for the explanation.

I still wonder what is going on here in the South West where self appointed groups of people seem to ignore what is happening in the grass roots of folk music (and dance - unless you dance their way). I take your point though, that active EFDSS involvement in local organisations should be happening, but it may be better that it does not in many cases.

Gozz


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 12:36 PM

Many of the local organisations are very active and make a significant contribution to folk music in their local communities. Others less so - it varies from region to region. However the point is that these are independent organisations run by enthusiasts, often with limited funding. They are not part of the EFDSS.

Arguably these organisations are doing what the EFDSS should be doing in the regions. On the other hand, since they are mostly doing a good job, perhaps the EFDSS is right not to try to compete. However I do believe the EFDSS could do more to support these and other grass-roots organisations, not only financially but also with advice and guidance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Gozz
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM

I like the analogy Les and I suspect it still very much applies. They have a great big library full of our heritage and how do we get to claim it?

The local organisations (if that is the right word for them) seem to do nothing other that pat each other on the back and award each other something every now and again. Meanwhile the local real folk just get on with their music and treat it as an irrelevance. That is certainly how it is in my area. As you can tell, I am one of the 6000 as well.

Gozz


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 08:47 AM

I am probably getting a bit carried away here but:

"the entertainment at the AGM was only available to members and if (ritual) dance teams were invited to perform they all had to be members too."

It feels like what ever 'The Tradition' is it has been taken into custody and will not be allowed out to mix with anybody except members of the prison service.

I feel sure this is no longer the case, don't I?

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 08:31 AM

I am just one of 6000 dissatisfied ex members


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:54 AM

There are about 4000 members now, that speaks volumes Malcolm!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 12:03 PM

It might not need a reply but it speaks volumes .......

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 11:37 AM

When the Society had almost 10000 members (early 1980s) the entertainment at the AGM was only available to members and if (ritual) dance teams were invited to perform they all had to be members too.

Most teams got round this problem by becoming affilliated clubs but even that was frowned upon by some of the diehards on the NEC. Fortunately they (the diehards) were in the minority.

This information is merely that and needs no response thank you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:24 AM

"Regional activity of EFDSS isn't too strong so that needs all the helpers it can get to maximise efforts."
well when EFDSS had local branches the activity was stronger even if mainly on the dance side.
it would have cost very little to have organised a ceilidh and song spots using local members, the ICA [Concertinas]and other concertina groups have done this on a number of occasions successfully.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:18 AM

In my copy of the review of the year 2009-2010, it shows The Society has £400,000 over three years from October 2009 to March 2011 from Arts Council England (ACE) That is a great step forward and the Society is to be congratulated.


The award was made under the Labour Government and I've been assured by a Board member that there won't be new criteria to meet, just inevitable 10% cuts like all public sector awards.

That money wouldn't go far if thinly spread but I hope the Board get the message from some of us provincials and grassrooters and stimulate te traditioanl folk arts where they really lie - with the thousands of amateur enthusiasts.

Gav Davenport , at the AGM, wisely said that as an aspiring semi professional he felt uncomfortable with an emphasis on promoting paid performers

Other agencies or local promoters may be better at that and EFDSS should be one hub for such enterpreneurial activity.

Regional activity of EFDSS isn't too strong so that needs all the helpers it can get to maximise efforts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 12:08 PM

there is an attempt by some members of the society, to ridicule any comments I make.
for the record I have been a musician, singing and promoting English traditional song,for 40 years, I have also had considerable experience in folk dance, having played in many ceilidh bands,played for solo dancers, and even played in EFDSS style bands.
It makes me despair when the EFDSS cant be bothered to organise music for its AGM.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 11:47 AM

EFDSS appears to be focussing on being taken seriously by the arts establishment, and no doubt projects such as the collaboration between morris and contemporary dancers help to obtain funding. I'm not sure they're very relevant to folk at the grass roots level.'

I don't get the ill informed notion that; we give them what they understand and then they'll like what we want them to like. You can use folk music and dance as a stimulus for any art form you care to mention. 'Return of the Native' contains reference to a mummers play but it's still a novel, 'La Fille Mal Gardee' contains a clog dance but it's still a ballet. 'English Rhapsody' by Delius contains 'Brigg Fair' as its main theme but it isn't folk and as for the score to 'Titanic' by James Horner it is bursting with folk song themes in numbers. But it's still a film score! What I don't get is why the only example of the society's work offered was a piece of contemporary dance? (As an ex- teacher of A level Dance for ten years I can also remark that it wasn't very good contemporary dance either)
Experience tells me that if you teach people folk dance they get interested in folk dance. If you give a guy an electric guitar he isn't suddenly going to turn into a Dave Swarbrick.
The society needs to recognise that it no longer has the teachers nationally. Other organisations do. It needs to recognise that it doesn't understand the term 'grass roots'. It needs to take on board that it isn't doing a great job of fulfilling its mission statement because, as demonstrated at the AGM, it is currently unwilling to talk to the experts, movers and shakers in the provinces.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 08:24 AM

According to the EFDSS website, its mission statement is to:

    * maintain itself as a centre of excellence for the study, practice and dissemination of traditional English folk song, dance and music;
    * provide national and local outreach services that enable and increase access;
    * celebrate diversity and promote equality

I'm not sure I sense any clear direction of how it intends to achieve these. So far as the first point is concerned, it appears to me that the centres of excellence are elsewhere, run by other organisations. As for the second, there is little evidence of this extending much beyond north London.

EFDSS appears to be focussing on being taken seriously by the arts establishment, and no doubt projects such as the collaboration between morris and contemporary dancers help to obtain funding. I'm not sure they're very relevant to folk at the grass roots level.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 01:56 PM

Thanks Mr tritonman,

I really enjoyed The Midaway in Stockport and Lymm and Sale FC, Shrewsbury and Whitby Festivals and various Watersons, Paxton, Rusby, Da Dannan, Seeger and so on at The Lowry.

But 'folk' does work best in small rooms. Unfortunately few pubs have them.

And back to the other point - beyond the RVW Library what can we expect the EFDSS to do?

Cheers
L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: tritoneman
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 12:19 PM

Les in Chorlton wrote: Currently I go out of our front door, walk to The Beech each Wednesday, sing songs and play tunes with likeminded friends and then come home.


For me, therein lies much of the heart and soul of folk music....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 12:16 PM

I did attend the AGM, although since I'd already cast my votes online I felt rather foolish; like Frank Maguire, the MP for Fermanagh & South Tyrone, who once travelled all the way to Westminster to "abstain in person".

It was very disturbing to learn that owing to "crossed wires" in communication the Society had not planned any events to accompany the AGM. It was just as distressing to discover a complete absence of publicity material to celebrate what are actually the genuine achievements of the Society. This was a missed opportunity for the Society to demonstrate to members what it is doing on our behalf - even some tea and biscuits and a chance to mingle would have been nice.

I thought Paul, Gavin and Mike amongst others all spoke up very eloquently for the members out in the provinces; but it seems that the Society paying more attention to the Arts Council in London than to its membership.

Matthew


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 11:48 AM

I have always believed that lots of people enjoy 'folk' music if it is presented in an appropriate manner. The continued success of festivals, quality medium sized concerts and well run Folk Clubs and Sessions bares this out.

A folk club every week is very difficult to sustain but it is often the model that organisers and grpoups go for.

I guess more imaginative and flexible arrangements are needed. Beginners tunes sessions are a good example - I think

L in C#


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: EFDSS AGM , Wassup?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 09:44 AM

The Libary and its service is great. Furtehr digitisation is necessary.
EFDSS must work more in 'the provinces.
It will have to attract new , young members or fizzle.
Gav Davenport at the AGM made an important point that 'folk' needs to be rooted in a fertile, non professional soil.

Where and what do people see as great 'grassroots' development?

Carols start tomorrow! Now that is grassroots and traditional song and music and very healthy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 24 May 10:11 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.