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BS: Invest in your pot dealer

Little Hawk 02 Nov 10 - 07:14 PM
Sawzaw 02 Nov 10 - 12:39 AM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 06:09 PM
gnu 01 Nov 10 - 05:52 PM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 05:47 PM
gnu 01 Nov 10 - 05:45 PM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 05:10 PM
gnu 01 Nov 10 - 04:32 PM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM
gnu 01 Nov 10 - 03:51 PM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 03:51 PM
Bobert 01 Nov 10 - 03:33 PM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 02:07 PM
Sawzaw 01 Nov 10 - 12:29 PM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 10:20 AM
Bobert 01 Nov 10 - 10:01 AM
Little Hawk 01 Nov 10 - 09:55 AM
Sawzaw 01 Nov 10 - 12:07 AM
Little Hawk 31 Oct 10 - 01:32 PM
Sawzaw 31 Oct 10 - 12:54 PM
Sawzaw 31 Oct 10 - 12:42 PM
Little Hawk 31 Oct 10 - 11:07 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Oct 10 - 11:00 AM
Little Hawk 31 Oct 10 - 10:17 AM
pdq 30 Oct 10 - 08:37 PM
gnu 30 Oct 10 - 08:12 PM
pdq 30 Oct 10 - 07:08 PM
dick greenhaus 30 Oct 10 - 06:29 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 10 - 06:17 PM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 10 - 05:19 PM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 10 - 03:57 PM
gnu 30 Oct 10 - 03:56 PM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 10 - 02:25 PM
gnu 30 Oct 10 - 02:16 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 30 Oct 10 - 01:47 PM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 10 - 01:44 PM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 10 - 01:35 PM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 10 - 01:18 PM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 10 - 01:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Oct 10 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 10 - 12:46 PM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 10 - 11:50 AM
Bobert 30 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Oct 10 - 11:13 AM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 10 - 11:11 AM
MarkS 30 Oct 10 - 10:59 AM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 10 - 09:35 AM
GUEST 30 Oct 10 - 09:21 AM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 10 - 01:47 AM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 10 - 01:11 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 07:14 PM

Sawzaw - Tax it??? Why tax it at all? I said I wanted the power put in the hands of the people, right? Not the government. I suggest legalizing it for home cultivation and private use only...and most definitely not taxing it or regulating it...beyond requiring that it not be given to minors. To tax it would require the setting up of a vastly complicated and expensive system involving inspectors, paperwork, and all kinds of bureaucratic nonsense like that, and it could only result in harassment and oppression of the general public, in my opinion.

Specialty coffees? Yeah, there's a wonderful variety of those available now and some of them taste great....but I've still given it up anyway. If it doesn't bother you, though, then enjoy it, with my blessing. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 12:39 AM

LH:

How are ya gonna tax it?

I love coffee too. several years ago I drank hot chocolate. Then I started putting a little instant coffee in. Then it was mostly instant, all decaf then.

Then I got a drip pot somewhere and tried some real coffee. Then I went to flavored coffee and eventually to non decaf.

The caffeine don't bother me anymore. I can sleep in a bus station and I have.

There are all kinds of good coffees available at the supermarket now that wasn't there a few years ago, even flavored coffee.

I make it extra strong with two 1 oz scoops per cup. At least two cups a day.

Yep, it is indispensable now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:09 PM

Aerogarden??? Hmmm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:52 PM

Oh, yeah.... go to Canadian Tire and search Aerogarden. You can grow your own veggies for $180. Veggies... hahahahaa. $180... HAHAHAHAA

Hey dude... check this out... I got it at Crappy Tire man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:47 PM

That's exactly what the Dachshund says when he finds a fresh turd on the lawn...


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:45 PM

Yes... then they can sell to a friend if they want but it would help to preclude "dealers" selling to kids... something to be avoided. There needs to be a recourse in such a situation when the details get cloudy.

BTW... I knew a lad who once bought some homegrown from a Yank draft dodger in the hills north of Saint John, NB. Quite a story, but the money was "$20 okay man?" It was the size of a large Ziplock freezer bag about 3" in diameter. I'd say close to 4 ounces. My buddy nearly broke his wrist getting his wallet out. It was good shit, so he told me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 05:10 PM

Yeah, probably....so say they can't sell it at all, then, just grow it for their own personal use.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:32 PM

Agreed... but as soon as you say they can sell it a can of worms will be opened. ALL sales illegal.. except for medical pot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

The main thing, the absolute key thing, is...DON'T allow corporate industry to market the stuff in any way. Those guys are the biggest and greediest sharks the world has ever known. The ordinary people, left to themselves, will do little or no harm raising pot for their own consumption.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 03:51 PM

LH... "allowed to sell, say, a maximum of $20 worth of it for cash to a friend who visited at their house..."

Nope. No need to bring in the brown shirts or lawyers for any of it.

If someone could come with a way to "breathalize test" drivers for pot, I would support you plan.

Geeze... all this talk of pot brings back fond memories from my uni days. I am almost tempted to see if I can get a wee puff but I wouldn't know where to get any. Besides, I probably wouldn't even get high unless I smoked a few times as it's been years and years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 03:51 PM

LOL!!!

Look, I used to love coffee. Just loved it. But then I started noticing the insomnia, tension, headaches....and I made the connection. Too much caffeine and sugar! Okay, so I knew I had to quit.

It was tough. It took me about 3 years to quit the stuff, and about 5 tries over that period. Finally I managed by doing this: I stopped putting cream and sugar in it and drank it black. GAAAHH!!! Awful tasting stuff. But I stuck to it...whenever I felt the urge, I'd buy coffee "black, no sugar". Bloody awful. It only took about 2 weeks, and I was done with the damned stuff.

You have to stop disguising it and face what it really is that you are drinking...an awful tasting black drink that happens to have a lovely aroma. So just smell it. But don't drink it. That's my solution. It rots yer guts and drives you nuts. ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 03:33 PM

Yo, LH... Word on the streets is that Todd and Ms Sarah been fuedin'... Hang in there, son...

Heck, things work out fir ya'll and you could be the First Folkie in 2016...

But really, I do all them things you do... Got big gardens and lots of bird houses and feeders and I play music lots (with ot w/o the friends) and like good food... But no coffee??? How you do that??? Coffee is the shits, man!!! I mean, life without coffee wouldn't be worth livin'... I mean, I could quit pot, cut way back on beer but I'm gonna have my coffee, gol danged it...

(Maybe yer an addict, Boberdz...)

Yeah??? And maybe yer a mamby-pamby pain in the ass... Ya' ever think about that???

(No, Boberdz... I haven't... Not in regards to me, that is.... You??? Different story...)

Bite me...


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 02:07 PM

Ah!!! You've touched on a crucial angle there, Sawzaw. Very crucial. And here is my solution to it, cos I've thought a lot about that.

If I were in the government, I would legalized the growing of marijuana for private individuals....for their own use...on their own land...but NOT for public sale by any company, storefront, individual or business! It would be illegal to package the pot in anything but a plastic baggie or a plain paper bag...so no corporate packaging allowed. It would be illegal to attach a brand name to the pot. No business would be allowed to market it on the shelf, through the internet or through mail order.

The only thing people would be allowed to do was grow their own and use it on their own land or in their own home. They would be allowed to share it with friends in their own home if they so desired...and that happens all the time now anyway. They would be allowed to sell, say, a maximum of $20 worth of it for cash to a friend who visited at their house.

But no company, corporation, bank or credit card company would be allowed to invest in, market, or handle the sale of pot in any way.

That would keep the corporate fat cats from launching a huge pot marketing scheme, and it would leave the power in the hands of the ordinary people where it belongs!

And it would be a cinch, because as I've said before...any idiot can grow and harvest marijuana and roll joints! I know...I've seen total idiots manage it with ease. ;-D

I want the ordinary people to have the power themselves, not the corporations.

It would be very hard to get a body of law such as I have just recommended passed by any government...because NO corporate lobbyist or banker would be in favor of it! Thus, I think there is little chance it would get passed, considering that those guys control our governments...but hope springs eternal in the human breast, right? With a truly honest and responsible group of politicians in power, such a law could get passed....


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 12:29 PM

The newest Corporate cash Cow


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:20 AM

What do I do for fun?

Well....okay, there's playing music with friends, that's a big one. Working on songs. Eating lots of good food, specially Oriental food, and drinking hot tea (usually green tea). Going out to restaurants. Chatting on Mudcat and various other computer stuff. Collecting and building airplane models. Reading lots of good books. An occasional glass of wine. Enjoying Nature. Taking care of the house and grounds. Entertaining the birds and chipmunks.

That fairly well covers it.

Sex??? Well, I'm not with anyone right now, and I never married, but frankly...sex just ain't that big a deal anymore, know what I mean? What I need in my life is love. Lots of love. And I get a reasonable amount of that from my friends and I give it back too. Sex can wait until (and if) I find someone really special that I want to have sex with and she wants to also. Winona hasn't shown up yet, so I figure she's probably just too busy at the moment... ;-D

Then too, listening to the wild stories Chongo tells me when he comes up here for a break from Chicago is a lot of fun. I believe about half of it most of the time. You just can't get bored when Chongo's around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 10:01 AM

I donna know about you, LH... No coffee... No pot... Not much alceeehalll... Maybe not even much sex, I donno... LIke what do you do fir fun??? I mean, beatin' on geetars get's old after a couple hours....

Nice articles yesterday in the Washington Post about pot in the Washingtonian magazine...

Seems that my ideas on the benefits of decriminalization are purdy close to "mainstream"... Hmmmmmmm??? Maybe mainstream is puffin' more than they admit to???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:55 AM

Ha! ;-D No, I'm not that weird at all, despite the long hair and the radical political views. When it comes to lifestyle, I live a far quieter and healthier existence than a lot of those conventional looking 3 piece suit guys in their office jobs.

I have a good friend who is a retired RCMP officer (Royal Canadian Mounted Police), and he always says that when he was on the force he would have immediately pegged me as a drug user, simply because of the hair and the guitar and the general appearance (well....mainly just the hair, that is...). I said, "That's not fair. I don't do any drugs at all and I didn't do them then either." He says, "Yeah, I know that now, but you see, all we've got to go on initially is the outer appearance....and we figure if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it is a duck."

And I say to him, "Yeah, that's about how all us longhairs felt about cops! A bunch of tightass storm troopers." And we both laugh.

I got to know him because we both sail radio control sailboats in a local hobby club. He is the best RC model and HO train layout builder I've ever met in my life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 12:07 AM

See how much better we feel when people find something they agree on?

Gee, LH ain't so weird after all. Even if he does pick his nose with his toes and cohabitates with a monkey. ;<)


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:32 PM

"It should be kept low key and private, not glamorized or promoted."

Agreed! People who smoke pot are NOT any cooler or smarter than anyone else, and if they think they are then they're never gotten beyond a silly teenage mentality. There was a lot of peer pressure among teens and early-20's people when I was growing up to do the following things to prove you were cool and someone to be included in the respect of the peer group. They were:

drink alcohol
smoke cigarettes
smoke pot
wear the "cool" clothing of the time
take other recreational drugs
use certain swear words casually and frequently
and make sure NOT to still be a virgin!!! (or at least, for God's sake, make sure nobody knows that you are still a virgin...if you are...)

All these things were psychological pressures brought down upon every young person, particularly young males, by the other young people around them. It's the herd mentality. You were deemed a "loser" or a "nerd" if you didn't share in these various acting-out types of youth conformity.

Believe me, I know! ;-) I didn't smoke cigarettes or pot, I didn't take recreational drugs, I barely drank at all, and as for the rest...well...enough said! ;-) Yes, and I was picked on some by various pretentious assholes and pests who delighted in doing all those things and carried it like a badge of pride. They were glamorizing and promoting a lot of foolish behaviour.

I was a nonconformist to that sort of thing then and I still am now. And it has served me well, cos I look 10 or 15 or even 20 years younger now than most of the people I grew up with.

*****

"Some things are more harmful than others, They should be sorted out into categories. Some controlled to different degrees and some not.

DO you give coffee to a baby? How about booze, pot or cigarettes?"

Excellent points, Sawzaw, and I agree. No, I sure wouldn't give any of those things to a baby or a younger child. I quit drinking coffee myself about 15 years ago, because I felt it was bad for my health. I do drink it very occasionally as a headache preventative...if I can feel the early stages of a migraine coming on. A single cup of coffee and an aspirin will usually work well to stop that headache from developing further. This might happen once a month on average, usually when the barometer goes really low, and that's the only time I will drink coffee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 12:54 PM

"Coffee IS a drug" So is asprin and cocaine and heroin so lets group them all together and either ban them or legalize them.

Blatt Blatt Blatt, Warning Warning Will Smith, False dichotomy.

Some things are more harmful than others, They should be sorted out into categories. Some controlled to different degrees and some not.

DO you give coffee to a baby? How about booze, pot or cigarettes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 12:42 PM

"an acre of hemp will out-produce every other crop known to mankind"

Bobert you have some good points but I am afraid you are getting carried away with stuff you read and have not thought about.

Have you questioned that information like you told me I should do?

I find it hard to believe. Are you sure you don't want to check that out?

As anybody asked me If I believe pot is "bad" Per se?

Well I don't believe it is bad for you to smoke pot, no worse than alcohol.

I believe people can do whatever they want in their own home.

But I believe they should not do anything that effects other people negatively. I think they should be quiet about about it and not go around bragging about how they smoke pot as if it makes them better somehow. Smarter and wiser that people that don't. "You don't smoke pot? You're a square man. You're some kind of a prude."

Are people that drink better than those that don't?

Do I want someone telling me that they are better because of their religion? Their occupation? Their education? Their race? Because they rode da bus? Because they voted for so and so?

I do believe that people break the law do not have lost any moral high ground from which to hoot about other people breaking the law.

I do believe that while pot might not necessarily lead to harder drugs there seems to be a culture where people have pot, dope, guns, bid wads of money, booze, criminal records, violence etc. It seems to be growing.

While pot might be only an element in that culture, it think it contributes and is "bad" in that way. It is part of a criminal culture. It might draw "some" people into that culture.

I don't think it needs to be glamorized and promoted to kids or anybody for that matter no more than happy meals or Barbies or guns.

It should be kept low key and private, not glamorized or promoted.

So what will happen when pot becomes a commercial product instead of black market? NASCARs with ads for different brands of pot?

Side bar: The word Hippy came from being hip [cool, not square]

That came from opium dens, where people laid on their side, on their hip while smoking the opium pipe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 11:07 AM

$25 a cup for the hot stuff, man. Fresh brewed. Cash up front. Meet "Alfie" behind the book shop at 1 AM. 5 bucks extra if you want double sugar and chocolate sprinkles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 11:00 AM

Don't give them ideas, Little Hawk...


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 10:17 AM

LOL!!! Great stories.

Imagine if coffee were made illegal to protect the public from their daily hit of sugar and caffeine. Just imagine....! Boy, would that be an active illegal drug trade!

Coffee IS a drug, and it may be the most popular drug of all time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: pdq
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 08:37 PM

I don't know why, but that reminds me of the story of a Mexican who used to come across the border from Tijuana every day with a big basket on the back of his bicycle.

A young customs inspector dutifully checked the basket for contraban every day, but found used clothes, odds and end of junk, usually a lunch box, but never anything illegal.

This whent on for 30 years until the Mexican stopped his trips and the inspector retired.

Years later the inspector spotted the man sitting at the counter in a diner. He was old, but that face he had seen so many times was instanly recognized.

The inspector came up to the old man and said "OK, Jose. I just know you were smuggling something, but I could never prove it. So, before I die, you must tell me what you were smuggling."

Jose said with smug little smile: "bicycles"


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 08:12 PM

pdq... I am minded of my great uncle. He used to live a short distance from the cop shop back in the 30s and would often pull a toboggan with milk jugs on it through the snow (or a wagon in summer). When the "lads" on the steps of the cop shop would ask him what he had he would holler in a crazy voice, "Handbrand alcohol! Wanna buy some copper?" and mutter some obscenities. They would laugh at the crazy old bugger who worked for the creamery.

Twarnt no milk or cream in them jugs. It WAS Handbrand alcohol.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: pdq
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 07:08 PM

Prohibition led to some intersting innovations.

Ernest and Julio Gallo's father, Joseph Gallo, worked with the biggies of Organized Crime to bring California wine to New Jersey, New York and Chicago.

He devised a scheme where he filled railroad tankers with "grape juice" which was quite legal. They were sometimes inspected.

However, the slow trip East was long enough to produce alcohol.

Yes, he used the tankers as primary frementation vessels. Clever, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 06:29 PM

Franklin Adams (FPA) wrote a short verse back in the early 30s:

Prohibition is an awful flop
    We like it.
It don't stop what it tries to stop
    We like it.
It's filled our land with vice and crime,
It's covered us with vice and slime
It don't prohibit worth a dime
    Nevertheless, we favor it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 06:17 PM

Well, just a quite trip thru Googleland give one a little insight into the dollar costs of enforcing prohibition on pot... Minnesota spends $91M and Washington State $105M... Now those two states aren't even densely populated states but if we just took the average of their costs of roughly $100M and multiplied that by 50 states that would mean roughly $5B to enforce...

Now if you throw in lawyers and cops and jail, etc, you're prolly talking about double that amount... So we're up to a very conservative fuguire of $15B...

Now you throw in the tax that would be collected on the roughly 60,000,000 regular pot smokers and you can prolly double the amount to enforce so my guess is that legalization would save US $15B and gain US another $15B or so... We are no longer talking chump change...

Now throw in the fact that people aren't going to be loosing jobs because of getting busted and that means more with-holding and less unemployement...

Then thake the ban on hemp out of the equation and consider that an acre of hemp will out-produce every other crop known to mankind in the production of "oils" that can power cars and now we are really talkin' about some serious cash... Plus lots of jobs... Plus even more taxes collected... Plau exports... Plus, plus...

I mean, legalization of pot alone would prolly put another $100B into our economy and that is a conservative estimate...

And create a lot less turmoil in our families while doing it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 05:19 PM

"Not having everything builds character" Absolutely, Sawzaw. Less is more. So many of the highest achievers have come from very humble backgrounds and poor families. I think of people like Johnny Cash or Tina Turner. They came from very poor origins and had to work damn hard. That made them strong. The whole USA once had a very strong and independent population, because the frontier and country people grew up with not very much and they worked very hard for what they had.

That all vanished under a giant wave of consumerism and easy credit after WWII. It's really a shame what has happened in North America in the last 65 years...although it looked great when it first started rolling. I guess it is one of the cyclical ups and downs that all societies go through as a century or two rolls by.

Regarding pot legalization...well, I haven't got a wealth of statistics at my hands here, but I hate to think of several totally harmless, kind, and good people I know around here getting a criminal record just because some cop happens to stop by their place and find them in possession of a small amount of weed they're keeping for their own personal use. It would be a great miscarriage of justice if it happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 03:57 PM

LH:

I think people wanted more stuff that they really didn't need so both partners had to work to afford it on credit of course. You can probably blame corporations for selling people on two cars and a boat and a bigger house and costly pass times.

Back in the 50's we had one car and a small house with 1 bathroom etc. We all lived through it even though work for one partner was scarce. We had to get our bicycles from the dump. Not having everything builds character I think. Ever known a family with 7 children? They all come out better because they have to do with less and cooperate more. And the wife works her butt off at home.

Twas increased consumerism.

But People need to be shown how to see through the sales pitches and resist them.

I have never bought the largest house I could afford or made payments on a car or boat or even carried a credit card balance that I couldn't pay off every month. It just requires some critical thinking and self control. It should be taught at an early age.

Less is more in my opinion. The more stuff you have the more you have to Worry about.

Anyway back to pot. Is the world going to pot? Or not?

What happens in other countries when pot is legalized? Do the problems go away?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 03:56 PM

Me too, LH. I'd love to marry into money. >;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 02:25 PM

We certainly agree on what most of the problems are, Sawzaw. I too am dismayed at the breakdown of the family unit that has occurred in the last 50 years or so. I think the primary thing that made it occur was, number one, that all the women started going into the workforce (which really began during the World Wars...the men went off to war, and the women went into their jobs).

That was necessary at the time....and there's no reason why women shouldn't be able to do all those jobs men do if they want to...but we now have a situation where a couple can't even afford to maintain a household and raise children unless they're both out working. And where does that leave the children? The children are being deprived of a stable, secure homelife with one parent at home, which is what they really need to mature emotionally and feel safe.

The children are being shunted off to daycares, factory-like schools (at an ever earlier age), and they are being brought up in too many cases by a damn television! The TV drenches them in commercial messages which program them to be little consumers and reduce their attention span to zilch. They develop ADD, don't get enough exercise, become lonely and alienated, lack affection and human contact...it's a disaster for the family.

Those kids turn into alienated teenagers who don't have much experience in human relations, and those teenagres join the gangs you mentioned.

I don't view drugs as a primary cause of what has occurred, I view them as something that people turn to when they're already lost, bored, confused, and unfulfilled, and that's a result of them losing the traditional family support they once had in the home.

It's a vicious circle, and it's primarily been driven by huge commercial forces which are seeking greater profits, in my opinion.

They held up the carrot of "liberation" to get women out of the home (and yes, I'm FOR women's liberation), but then they trapped everyone in a dog eat dog system where most people are too strapped for cash and short of time to even be able to maintain a traditional home any longer. And what for??? Money.

Traditional family life is far stronger in the poor countries I've visited...such as Cuba and Trinidad. Why? Because the mothers are for the most part choosing to stay at home and raise their children, and the extended family also lives near by and is very supportive. All the generations work together to help raise the children. That is the way it was for thousands of years all over the world, and that's the way it works best.

Remember the cigarette company that advertised Virginia Slims...cigarettes for women! And they said, "You've come a long way, baby!"

They lied. They weren't offering real liberation to women, they were offering slavery under the guise of liberation.

I would happily stay home, by the way, and do all the domestic stuff (cooking, cleaning, etc) if I had a female partner who was willingly working outside the home and making enough money to support the home unit. I like the domestic stuff. It wouldn't be a problem for me at all to fill that role.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 02:16 PM

Very interesting discussion with insight from both sides of the issue. Refreshing!

Almost would like to still smoke whilst reading this thread. Had a great time when I did 30 years ago. Never went mad either. Well, not while I was smoking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:47 PM

Must be the good Devon earth... ;0)

450% rise in 5 years........in Devon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:44 PM

"But we can't legislate in such a way as to make people become mature, kind, and wise, and make them stop engaging in a multitude of bad little self-defeating habits of their own choice....we just can't do it. It won't work. It's unenforcable. They won't obey those laws anyway, and punishing them won't help. We cannot legislate or enforce a perfect world. We must allow individual adult people the freedom to make their own choices about either building their own character...or destroying it. That's their job in this life, and only they can do it."

Absolutely 100% true but what do we have to then try to protect them from themselves and make up for their mistakes?

Why does someone have to babysit them? That is the purpose of a family.

What ever happened to families? They disintegrate due to drugs alcohol, adultery, crime, violence. Then the kids have to form up gangs to feel a sense of family.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:35 PM

Hey McGrath. I like the way you take things individually and study them without bias to the person that stated it. Even Einstein admitted when he was wrong, We can't take everything someone says as right or wrong depending on who said it.

An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), also known as argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.

I admit I am guilty of this myself sometimes.

"the "prohibitionists" are the same folks who are complaining about government in their lives???"

How is this so? How was this conclusion arrived at?

Obama is going to sue against legalization of Pot in Caleefornia. Splain that one.

I object to a lot of Obama's policies and actions but I am with him on this one. At least he is assertive on this matter.

"How do you spell hypocrit ???" hypocrite


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:18 PM

Well, ain't that somethin'! ;-) I learn something new every day.

All it usually takes for a substance to become legal in our English-speaking societies is that the great White power structure, the ruling elite, and the great White majority is accustomed to it and likes it. Occasionally some fanatical group of self-righteous tightass prudes will get to the top of that White power structure and will succeed in briefly making a substance like alcohol or tea or marijuana completely illegal for a short time (all three were declared illegal at certain times in history), but it's so pointless and stupid to do that, and so impossible to enforce, that the prohibition always ends, usually after a fairly short period of time.

It's like outlawing extra-marital sex or outlawing masturbation. You can do that if you're stupid enough to decide to do it, but vast numbers of people will still do those things anyway and you can't stop them from doing it, you can only harass them uselessly, spy on them, and waste the time and energy of vast numbers of police and generally create a huge legal mess that helps no one.

That is the present situation with the marijuana laws.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:15 PM

LH We are singing the same tune basically.

Opinions are not worth fighting over like personal property, just debated. You can learn a lot but you have to listen not just talk.

Whoever said the thing about the cost of keeping peole in prison for possession has a very valid point and I cannot dispute it at this time.

I concede that point but I will have to think about it and check the numbers.

However I see a lot of moral dilemmas in the government's so called obligation to take care of people, keep them healthy and wise but at the same time let them do risky things counter to those obligations.

IE smoking, sky diving, mountain climbing, bungee jumping, shark encounters etc.

Shouldn't people have to pay to take risks that others don't? Should your auto insurance be rised to cover bad drivers?

On the comparison of alcohol and pot, what kind of numbers are we talking about? What are the ratios?

Am I correct in assuming more people use alcohol than pot and therefore, even if they are equal in causing problems, there are going to be more problems with alcohol because of the numbers?

If alcohol is more dangerous than Pot then let's ban it immediately. I can live without it.

People talk about the shorter life span and high death rate in the US compared to other "better" countries. In America people have the means and the time to kill themselves by overeating, engaging in dangerous activities, driving more miles, homocide Etc Etc, Is that taken into the equation or ignored?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:13 PM

One thing Sawzaw said, I largely agreed with - "Are those violent gangs going to become church goers when the demand for their product goes away by legalization? They will switch to something worse like kidnapping."

Those kind of people will always diversify - when Prohibition ended,they didn't even need to break step - protection rackets, prostitution, kidnapping, even politics, anything where there is easy money to be made, including legal activities with a twist, such as property development with violence to move things along. After all, they are business - the boundary between legitimate and criminal activity is paper thin at times, and moves around.

But the implication that it's a good idea to tame the villains by giving them the pusher franchise, by keeping pot illegal, as a way of keeping them off doing worse stuff, doesn't really convince. In fact, if anything, this is one of the factors that it makes it easier for them to extend into other profitable areas, as already happens. And as happened during Prohibition, where bootlegging was just the jumping-off ground for organised crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 12:46 PM

`. . . then I think no one would have said " boo" about it.`

As an aside, boo was a street term for Mary Jane. That too was a street term for marijuana.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 11:50 AM

Good posts, Bobert and McGrath. You are both quite right in what you say.

Sawzaw, I really like that post about Mustapha Mond and the Savage. It's fascinating. Yes! There are many people who DO claim the right to be unhappy, bitter, vengeful, drunk, addicted, stupid, ignorant, resentful, lazy, self-indulgent, weak, self-destructive, and every other negative and self-defeating thing you can mention.

Some of them even glory in it! In some way they feel justified, usually because it suits their momentary desire or because they had some pain in their past and they're not ready to let go of it and move on. They want the world to change, but they will not exert any effort to change themselves.

Such people are lost.

We can't pass laws that force people to be of good character, but we can pass laws that prevent them from directly hurting others through overt crimes like murder, rape, theft, assault, fraud, drunken driving, etc.

And you know I'm in favor of such laws.

But we can't legislate in such a way as to make people become mature, kind, and wise, and make them stop engaging in a multitude of bad little self-defeating habits of their own choice....we just can't do it. It won't work. It's unenforcable. They won't obey those laws anyway, and punishing them won't help. We cannot legislate or enforce a perfect world. We must allow individual adult people the freedom to make their own choices about either building their own character...or destroying it. That's their job in this life, and only they can do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM

Yeah, the wierd thing is that the "prohibitionists" are the same folks who are complaining about government in their lives??? Go figure??? I mean, these folks are like szicophrenics... They say they want government off their backs but then want it to beat on every who doesn't agree with them???

Hmmmmmmmm??? How do you spell hypocrit???

Part of the problem we are facing these days is that we are raising a generation of kids who aren't being taught to think for themselves... This is a recipe for disaster when it comes to addictions... I mean, there is something to the ol' saying "An idle mind is the devil's workshop"... So yeah, we are seeing alot more addictions and irresponsible use of all kinda of products, leagl and not legal...

Another part of the problem is that it isn't just today's kids... The parents weren't taught to think either and so how is a kid going to learn to much of anything responsibly... I mean we are now welll into the 2nd "Epsilon" generation and that's a bad thing...

Throw in the reality that we aren't producing quality jobs anymore for the masses and what we are going to end up with is more and more people, many out of boredom, filling up the voids with addictions... Heck, we are seein' it now... I mean, in the South among most men it's sports, sports and more sports... BTW, I have a theory that to Southern men, politics has nuthin' to do with "policies" but just being on the winning side... It's just another sports event... I have seen this in my own 3 son-inlaws... None of them can discusws an issue beyond the bumper sticker lenght position but all of them are highly emotional, just like when they watch __________ (fill in any sport) about winning...

Lastly, like LH spoke of... A glass of wine with a meal is soomething that enhances that experience... But it is taught to people and passed down and is part of a culture... Drenkin' BudLite the way that it is being "sold" to folks with fast moving scenes in the commercials sends the message to drink fast and drink furious... That is the message... Same kinda thing happens when we push folks to buy pot from criminals who just want to sell more pot... These folks ain't gonna impart information about responsible use... That is not their game... They are going to preach, like the beer commercials, which is smoke lots of it...

We are really missing an opportunity here to move the country toward a saner place...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 11:13 AM

If cannabis use had been customary in White culture the way alcohol or tobacco have been for centuries, then I think no one would have said " boo" about it.

Not quite. The same kind of people who trapped the USA into Prohibition would have tried the same for pot, and they might even have succeeded for a few years. Then people would have thrown it out, as will happen sooner or later for this Prohibition.

And of course there are strong grounds for Prohibition for both substances, though much stronger in the case of alcohol. But they are outweighed by the problems that it causes,which are even worse than the problems legal alcohol causes - or that legal pot causes in places where it is legal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 11:11 AM

"In fact , said Mustapha Mond, you're claiming the right to be unhappy.

All right then, said the Savage defiantly, I'm claiming the right to be unhappy. Not to mention the right to grow old and ugly and impotent; the right to have syphilis and cancer; the right to have too little to eat; the right to be lousy; the right to live in constant apprehension of what may happen to-morrow; the right to catch typhoid; the right to be tortured by unspeakable pains of every kind. There was a long silence.

I claim them all, said the Savage at last. Mustapha Mond shrugged his shoulders. You're welcome, he said."


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: MarkS
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 10:59 AM

In the interest of liberty one should be able to do whatever one wants.
In the interests of sanity, one should not be permitted to interact with others in a way which is hazardous or hurtful, for example, driving a car while artificially "enhanced."


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:35 AM

Dear Guest,

I have worked as both a drug counselor and a suicide hot-line counselor, graveyard shift, pardon the pun. Pot was never the problem. Other drugs or booze usually were. Part of the problem as you allude to is that when people want pot, they either grow it themselves or buy it from someone who is by definition a criminal. (I`m leaving out medical use as prescribed by MDs.) Legalize it and some of that goes away. While I do accept that grass has inherent problems (bronchitis, cancer, etc), addiction has never been the issue. I suppose I could point out that alcohol--a legal substance in Canada and the US (and other countries)--has been responsible for more family strife than grass ever has. But saying one thing is worse than another doesn`t make what it`s worse than necessarily good.

I would prefer to smoke a joint than have a glass of scotch (GASP). As LH pointed out, busting someone for a quarter oz of grass is a waste of the cops` and the court`s time and too effin` much tax money.

Keep well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:21 AM

As a libertarian I agree with most of what has been argued but I think time will show that there have been a lot more young lives spoiled than pot users want to admit.
Maybe they are too stoned to seek outthe evidence.
    Guest is mikesamwild, who forgot to reset his cookie. -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:47 AM

No, Sawzaw, I'm intrigued by people who don't agree with me, and I always figure we could actually be good friends in real life if we weren't yakking on the internet where you can't see the other person's face or hear the tone of their voice or see their body language. I'm always curious to know why they believe the things they do. It helps me understand more about humanity when I find out.

I mean, hey, I disagree radically with a few of my best musical friends around here (in my town) about politics...or religion...but it doesn't stop us from being the best of friends anyway, because we share so many other good things in common.

I can also take or leave alcohol, so I know what you mean about that. I wouldn't miss it if it all disappeared, that's for sure. Still, I think passing laws against people drinking alcohol is utterly futile. Just pass laws against them doing harmful antisocial things while drinking or drunk, and you've got it covered. I recommend the same approach to all drugs. Prosecute the harmful acts such as assault, reckless driving, robbery, etc...but don't prosecute the substance use itself...because if you do then it just causes needless trouble for the huge number of people who do not commit any harmful acts when using that substance...and those people should be left alone by their governments and police.

The French and Italians and Spanish have an appeciation of fine wine with a meal that I can really relate to, by the way. They know how to drink moderately, and with style...a very civilized approach. I like that. As for the tastiest wines, I'd have to go with some of the German white wines, I think.

To me drinking is simply something you add to a meal like a grace note to a melody. So you drink a glass of wine with a good meal. That is typical in the Mediterranean countries, it seems to benefit the people's health, and it certainly isn't a harmful practice nor are the parents in those countries afraid to let their children sample a little of the wine at dinnertime. That is how you bring up kids NOT to abuse alcohol. You don't forbid it or make a big moral issue out of it. You let them see YOU YOURSELF not abusing it, but using it very moderately, and with meals...not to get drunk, but to add a lovely taste to the meal. That's how it was used in my parents' house, and I've never had the slightest problem with alcohol, because it was neither FORBIDDEN....nor was it abused. Children learn by example...and they are irresistibly attracted to what is FORBIDDEN when they hit their teens, so suppression and denial simply doesn't work. Generations of stubborn, prudish, and fearful parents have discovered that too late when they tried to protect their kids by suppression of something instead of simply setting an excellent example of moderation and good sense in front of them.

Most teens who end up abusing alcohol and drugs do so either because their parents themselves abused alcohol and drugs...or because their parents absolutely forbade those things and issued dire threats to their kids about them. That stimulates curiosity, rebellion, and experimentation in young people.

The worst possible case, however, would be a parent who not only abuses alcohol and drugs but ALSO stringently forbids them to their kids and issues dire threats. There's nothing that will raise rebellion in a teen faster than blatant hypocrisy on the part of his or her parents.

The society we live in itself is very hypocritical, because you know who gets to abuse both alcohol and illegal drugs with impunity most of the time? The very rich and famous, that's who. They figure their money and fame puts them above the law, and the police and courts usually don't bother them about it, because they have a lot of influence in high places.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:11 AM

Hey Hawk. If I am Don Quixote, Obama is da God Fatha.

I am merely agreeing with one of his policies so I don't get rubbed out see?

Why am I being bullied for agreeing with Obama?

Amos just said Obama is cool and 100 times smarter than any of the folks here who routinely try to put him in their box. Maybe some of his smarts and coolness will rub off on me.

Are you afraid of people who don't agree with you?

If you want to outlaw alcohol, I am with you. I can do without it. I can take it or leave it.

Down tha road a piece from me
Thars a 'ol holler tree
Where you lay down a doller or two
Then ya go round tha bend
An when ya come back agin
Thars a jug of that good ole Mountain Dew

Yeeeee Haaaaa


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