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BS: Invest in your pot dealer

Donuel 27 Oct 10 - 09:00 AM
Bobert 27 Oct 10 - 09:24 AM
GUEST,leeneia 27 Oct 10 - 09:27 AM
Donuel 27 Oct 10 - 09:33 AM
Mrrzy 27 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM
Sawzaw 27 Oct 10 - 04:24 PM
Bobert 27 Oct 10 - 04:31 PM
Sawzaw 28 Oct 10 - 12:15 AM
GUEST,Neil D 28 Oct 10 - 11:21 AM
Bobert 28 Oct 10 - 12:21 PM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 12:10 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 04:42 AM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Oct 10 - 08:36 AM
mikesamwild 29 Oct 10 - 08:54 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 10:15 AM
Bobert 29 Oct 10 - 10:57 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 11:05 AM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 11:32 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 12:15 PM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 12:46 PM
pdq 29 Oct 10 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,999 29 Oct 10 - 12:59 PM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 01:02 PM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 01:10 PM
GUEST,michaelr 29 Oct 10 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,999 29 Oct 10 - 03:31 PM
gnu 29 Oct 10 - 04:22 PM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 04:23 PM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 04:25 PM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 10 - 04:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Oct 10 - 06:06 PM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 06:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Oct 10 - 06:38 PM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 07:56 PM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 07:58 PM
Bobert 29 Oct 10 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,999 29 Oct 10 - 08:21 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Oct 10 - 08:21 PM
gnu 29 Oct 10 - 08:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Oct 10 - 08:42 PM
Bobert 29 Oct 10 - 08:47 PM
Sawzaw 29 Oct 10 - 10:01 PM
Bobert 29 Oct 10 - 10:13 PM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 10 - 12:13 AM
Sawzaw 30 Oct 10 - 01:11 AM
Little Hawk 30 Oct 10 - 01:47 AM
GUEST 30 Oct 10 - 09:21 AM
GUEST,999 30 Oct 10 - 09:35 AM
MarkS 30 Oct 10 - 10:59 AM
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Subject: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 09:00 AM

Soros today gave a million dollars toward the proposition to legalize pot.

In California they passed a law which makes small dispensers impossible to survie and concentrated the business in large monopolistic firms to sell pot.

It will be awahile before the corporate pot dealers go public but they are a wise investment for you to get rich as well as starve Mesican drug lords.

The Feds will no bother the corporate monopolies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 09:24 AM

Pot Smokers Unite!!!

Yes to Prop 19!!!

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 09:27 AM

My sister-in-law teaches mental health in a nursing school. She tells me "marijuana damages chromosomes." It causes children to be born with damaged DNA. They are weak and cannot think clearly.

I believe I have a nephew who qualifies.

The nephew of a friend committed suicide at 26 because of pot.

To hell with pot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 09:33 AM

It is true that pot causes Republicanism but I believe the constitution preserves a citizens right to have a weed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM

There has got to be more to the story of that suicide than pot, which does not detract from your tradegy. How awful to have a young person kill themselves; but over pot?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 04:24 PM

HHMMMMMMMMMMM Looks like J. D. Boss Hogg Soros VS the Obama administration VS Caleefornia.
                
Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes

AP 10/15/10

Attorney General Eric Holder is warning that the federal government will not look the other way, as it has with medical marijuana, if voters next month make California the first state to legalize pot.

Marijuana is illegal under federal law, which drug agents will "vigorously enforce" against anyone carrying, growing or selling it, Holder said.

The comments in a letter to ex-federal drug enforcement chiefs were the attorney general's most direct statement yet against Proposition 19 and set up another showdown with California over marijuana if the measure passes.

With Prop 19 leading in the polls, the letter also raised questions about the extent to which federal drug agents would go into communities across the state to catch small-time users and dealers, or whether they even had the resources to do it.

Medical marijuana users and experts were skeptical, saying there was little the federal government could do to slow the march to legalization.

"This will be the new industry," said Chris Nelson, 24, who smokes pot to ease recurring back pain and was lined up outside a San Francisco dispensary. "It's taxable new income. So many tourists will flock here like they go to Napa. This will become the new Amsterdam."

If the ballot measure passes, the state would regulate recreational pot use. Adults could possess up to one ounce of the drug and grow small gardens on private property. Local governments would decide whether to allow and tax sales.

The Justice Department remains committed to enforcing the Controlled Substances Act in all states, Holder said.

"We will vigorously enforce the CSA against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law," he wrote.

The letter was dated Wednesday and was obtained by The Associated Press.

Holder also said legalizing recreational marijuana would be a "significant impediment" to the government's joint efforts with state and local law enforcement to target drug traffickers, who often distribute pot alongside cocaine and other drugs.

The attorney general said the ballot measure's passage would "significantly undermine" efforts to keep California cites and towns safe.

Officials in Los Angeles County, where authorities have aggressively moved to tamp down on an explosion of medical marijuana dispensaries, vowed that they would still assist the federal government in drug investigations.

County Sheriff Lee Baca and District Attorney Steve Cooley said at a news conference that the law would be unenforceable because it is trumped by federal laws that prohibit marijuana cultivation and possession.

"We will continue as we are today regardless of whether it passes or doesn't pass," Baca said. His deputies don't and won't go after users in their homes, but public use of the drug will be targeted, he said.

Both gubernatorial candidates Democrat Jerry Brown and Republican Meg Whitman oppose Prop 19 and declined comment Friday.

The ex-Drug Enforcement Administration chiefs sent a letter to Holder in August calling on the Obama administration to sue California if Prop 19 passes. They said legalizing pot presented the same threat to federal authority as Arizona's recent immigration law.

In that case, Justice Department lawyers filed a lawsuit to block the enforcement of the law, saying that it infringed on federal powers to regulate immigration and therefore violated the U.S. Constitution. The case is now before a federal appeals court.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 04:31 PM

Obama had better quit trying to appease the right unless he plans on challenging Miss Sarah for the Republican nomination in 2012... Holder??? No comment...


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 12:15 AM

What?

Is this a ray of light I see between Bobert's lips and Obama's ass?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 11:21 AM

Is that a ray of light I see coming in your right ear and out your left?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 12:21 PM

Bite me, Swaz... There's lotta stuff that Obama and I don't agree on... Him knuckling under to the Repubs being the biggest... I mean, if he's gonna do the "Obama is a socialist" time than he should have stoof up and done the crime... Way too much appeasement... He should have pushed single payer health care reform... The the crybaby health insurance companies would have a reason to cry... But they made out just fine...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 12:10 AM

By Jove, I think Bobert is finally beginning that people are not always right or wrong.

"Way too much appeasement" Yeah, that's a good start Bobert.

Is he a weak leader? Are your lips loosing suction?

The "Crybaby health insurance companys" sent their lobbyists, the ones that Obama said were not going to run things anymore, to help the people that wrote the bill to write the bill as per below. Also see Bill Moyers below.

That's why they raised the rate recently. The tears are tears of laughter on the way to the bank.

One of Bobert's approved news sources said:

Its many cost-control provisions are geared toward reducing the amount of care we consume, not the price we pay.

"Mr. BAUCUS. Mr. President, there are a flood of emotions going through all of us today as we pass this reconciliation bill which improves upon the bill the President signed 2 days ago. I would like to focus only on one part–a very important part but only one part–and that is to thank the people who have worked so hard, especially in this body, to help accomplish this result
    We all want to thank so many people. Once we start mentioning a couple or three names, we run the danger of offending people whose names are not mentioned. We all know that. There will be an appropriate time for us to make all the thanks, and I will make mine so sincerely because I am so grateful for all the hard work my staff has put into this.
    I wish to single out one person, and that one person is sitting next to me. Her name is [former Wellpoint VP] Liz Fowler. Liz Fowler is my chief health counsel. Liz Fowler has put my health care team together. Liz Fowler worked for me many years ago, left for the private sector, and then came back when she realized she could be there at the creation of health care reform because she wanted that to be, in a certain sense, her profession lifetime goal. She put together the White Paper last November–2008–the 87-page document which became the basis, the foundation, the blueprint from which almost all health care measures in all bills on both sides of the aisle came. She is an amazing person. She is a lawyer; she is a Ph.D. She is just so decent. She is always smiling, she is always working, always available to help any Senator, any staff. I thank Liz from the bottom of my heart. In many ways, she typifies, she represents all of the people who have worked so hard to make this bill such a great accomplishment.
    I will have printed in the Record the names of all my professional staff. There are more than I realized, so I can't name them all. I ask unanimous consent to have that list printed in the Record and just regret that I cannot thank everybody personally."


Who is Liz Fowler? Ask PBS / NPR's Bill Moyers


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 04:42 AM

I always liked Joan Baez's view on pot, as expressed to the press sometime in the late 60s. She said, "It's silly to make pot smoking illegal. On the other hand, it's silly to smoke pot too."

;-) That's exactly how I've always felt about it. Most of the people I've ever had as friends have been casual pot smokers at various times in their life, and they're all harmless people and good citizens. A few have been regular pot smokers. Whether it has hurt them, I don't know, but if it has then the hurt has not been very obvious.

Still, I personally think it's silly to smoke pot or any other substance. No animal is foolish enough to deliberately inhale smoke, except for the odd zoo chimp who is imitating what he sees people around him do. No child below a certain age will willingly inhale smoke either, because his body tells him not to! But when they hit the age where "being cool" outweighs their natural and instinctive reactions, then that all changes fast. They become victims of cultural expectations and programmed response.

There's a certain type of addictive and depressive personality that easily turns to any and all forms of substance addiction in order to deal with an emotional problem...and that sort of person is very likely to indulge heavily in pot, alcohol, uppers, downers, drugs of all kinds both legal and illegal. That kind of person is also likely to commit suicide while under the influence of a drug, whether it be pot or alcohol or cocaine or tranquilizers or whatever it is.

In such a case, the drug is not the real origin of the problem...but it certainly can exacerbate it. Anti-drug laws will never save such people from themselves, in my opinion...because those people simply won't OBEY those laws!.... but they will land a lot of other harmless users in legal trouble to no useful purpose whatsoever and waste the time of cops who need to solve real crimes.

Therefore I am opposed to anti-drug laws which prosecute the user. I am not opposed to anti-drug laws which prosecute the dealers and marketers of large amounts of drugs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:36 AM

Why smoke it anyway?

But keep off the Pot Noodles!


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: mikesamwild
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:54 AM

I used to be persuaded about the non addictiveness of pot although my view of dopey old hippes and a lot of my students in the 60s was that it took away motivation. I was doing a lot of climbing and wanted a clear head. Some of the music sessions seemed to be pretty laid back but even then there were casualties, particularly those who were also acid heads


But I have seen too many damaged youngsters , just amongst people we know , who have developed cannabis psychosis and been left with bipolar conditions and even scizophrenia as well as some suicides


Where I live there is a serious problem of aggressive behaviour, apathy   and paranoia amongst young skunk smokers who smoke joints like they would Woodbines.

I'd put the risk at about 10% and they may be genetically predisposed or it may have mental roots or issues of upbringing.

I accept the apparent medical value to some smokers and know some kids who function OK but others who are pretty aimless without being apparently damaged.


I speak from close experience and think legalisation without serious education and genetic screening isn't worth the risk and family anguish.


having said all this my drug of choice was alcohol and that got hold of me until I decided enough was enough. Now I play 'Farewell to Whiskey' with mixed emotions, but i play it better!.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:15 AM

I agree that pot has bad effects on some people, just as you have said, mikesamwild. Yes, it can take away motivation, produce a general sort of laziness, and sometimes cause paranoia...depends on the basic tendencies of the individual.

Alcohol also has bad effects on a great many people, and they are considerably worse than the effects of cannabis.

Cannabis is helpful to some people with various medical conditions, as you also noted.

So, it's a mixed picture, but it's definitely not nearly as dangerous a drug as alcohol, yet it is illegal in most places while alcohol is legal almost everywhere.

Efforts to criminalize the drinking of alcohol were tried in North America and failed utterly. The primary effect of those efforts was to create a burgeoning crime empire for organized crime and to generally oppress the general public and deprive them of excercising freedom of choice in regards to whether or not to drink alcohol.

The effects of most anti-drug laws are similar to that. They aid organized crime and oppress the ordinary public.

No system of law will ever make everything "all right" for everyone, because life is imperfect....but a system of law can make things troublesome for the general public by depriving them of freedoms that are theirs by birthright.

What I am saying is that if I want to drink a glass of wine (and I do, ocassionally) and if my friend Joe wants to smoke a joint...and IF we don't do a single bit of harm to anyone by so doing, then a government has no right to tell us not to.

If we DO harm to someone, then the government should prosecute us for the harm we did....NOT for drinking a glass of wine or smoking a joint...and not for having wine or grass in our private possession.

Prosecute the crime, not the lifestyle choice. Drunk driving is hazardous to others, therefore it's a crime. Assault while under the influence of any drug is still assault, therefore it's a crime. Prosecute the crime....not the drug use. Drug use is a personal choice, and most people do understand how to use a drug such as alcohol or cannabis in such a way that it does not significantly impact society or others around them in a harmful way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:57 AM

The problem in generalizing is just that... It is generalizing... There are folks who have all kinds of problems with all kinds of legal substances other than alcohol... Some drive wrecklessly and hurt or kill themselves or others... Some eat themselves to death... Some undereat themselves to death... Some shoot themselves or others with guns that they shouldn't own for various reasons... I mean, there are lots of products in our lives and for every 100 users of these products most folks won't have any propblems in using these products responsibly...

Yeah, I like pot but I use it responsibly... I never drive with a buzz... I don't operate machinery with a buzz... I don't perform with a buzz...

I mean, if yer gonna ban pot and accept all the negative consequences from the effects of the prohibition you should at the very least understand them... Like where do kids get pot??? From the "pusher,am" who deos not have that kid's best interest at heart and very may well lead the kid to do other drugs that ther kid never would have considered??? That is a reality that I don't hear the prohibitionists talk about... Or the costs which are emmense... Or the war in Mexico...

I mean, let's get real here... Prohibition is costing thr US billions in enforcment and lost tax revenues from keeping pot illegal!!! Yes, billion$$$$!!!

Yeah, I do feel very saddened to hear of any kid who takes his life but there is no evidence that pot makes people suicidal... I mean, I don't think we can make a case based on one individual's experiences with life in general and say that pot was the reason that a person kid killed himself...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 11:05 AM

Suicidal people have a yearning to escape from the pain and stress of their lives. It's not surprising that they would attempt to ease that pain and stress or escape from it by drinking or taking various drugs, including pot. The drug isn't the essential problem, in my opinion, the escapist attitude that leads TO excessive drug use is the essential problem.

That attitude arises out of so many different factors that each case could be considered unique and would have to be dealt with in unique ways. The law can't deal with that. It's not flexible enough or smart enough to deal with that. But people are mentally lazy, so they just make a rigid law saying to everyone "You can't take this drug. If you do, we'll arrest you."

That's just a really dumbass, primitive way to try to deal with a very complex problem, and it's a way that doesn't work. It fails utterly to achieve its stated objective, which is to stop illegal drug use, and I very much doubt it does anything to reduce the incidence of suicide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM

Yeah you just buzz with a buzz. Ain't that great?

Guess I am little weird for wondering what the value of buzzing is.

I think Obama came to the same conclusion.

But then I never could understand why people pay money to watch two guys beat the shit out of each other.

Alcohol = crutch

Drugs = crutch

If alcohol is bad and fucks some people up, why use that as an excuse to legalize drugs and fuck up even more people?

Are those violent gangs going to become church goers when the demand for their product goes away by legalization? They will switch to something worse like kidnapping.

Kill 'em, stomp them out and eradicate them. Things get worse and worse while we follow this PC LaLa land bullshit.

"Political correctness can lead to some kind of paralysis where you don't address reality."


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 11:32 AM

To buzz, or not to buzz, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them with a buzz.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 12:15 PM

Ha! Nice variation on Shakespeare, Sawz... ;-)

No law will ever end all crime...but drug use is not a crime at all. It's a personal choice.

Pass laws against genuine crimes, Sawzaw, not against lifestyle choices. That's why I say, prosecute the dealer, prosecute the marketer of an illegal substance, but don't prosecute the private user. And if the user does commit a crime such as: drunk driving or robbery.....

Then prosecute the user for the crime, not the drug use. Understand?

If you want other people to be like you, Sawzaw, you will be forever frustrated, and it's not your business anyway that they should be like you. I don't have to have other people be like me to enjoy life and feel okay about it. I don't smoke grass. I don't drink beer, and I hardly drink at all. I don't take drugs. That's my choice. If someone else chooses to smoke grass, drink beer, or take drugs, I don't care, because that's his personal choice. If he commits a crime, however, then I care. Drug use in itself is not a crime.

Crimes are things that directly hurt/threaten other people or their property in some way: theft, assault, rape, fraud, slander, arson, drunk driving, murder, kidnapping, etc.

Those are crimes.

Taking a drug is nothing more than a lifestyle choice, just like having a drink or having sex with someone or putting sugar in your coffee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 12:46 PM

What sort of effect does life style choices have on healthcare?
Someone eventually pays for the healthcare. You all pay a part.

Could it possibly be that you are paying for someone elses's life style choices?

You don't get buzzed and smash into a tree but someone else made that innocent personal choice and now everybody else has to pay even if they didn't make the choice?

Drug Rehab. Why is there even drug rehab if it is only a lifestyle choice that affects nobody else?

Who pays?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: pdq
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 12:50 PM

Charlie Sheen started out using pot.

Look at him now.

A real fine xample of American manhood, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 12:59 PM

There have been at least 1,347 threads on Delta 9, THC. They have all said what has been said here, by all the posters, including me. FYI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 01:02 PM

Lifestyle choices have an enormous effect on healthcare, Sawzaw.

The lifestyle choices that are costing health care the most these days are people's dreadful overconsumption of junk food, sugar, caffeine, fast food, soft drinks, alcohol, and generally bad diet....and lack of exercise. Those are all bad lifestyle choices. To that you can add the cost of health damaged by both legal and illegal drug use.

Yeah, sure it costs us all money. I pay money every year to help supplement other people's bad habits and their health costs, and I pay it through my taxes. That's okay with me, because it's just a fact of life. I can't make everyone else in the country stop eating food that's bad for them and stop drinking and stop smoking and stop taking drugs. Nor can I make them get the exercise they need.

And I am not going to ask the government to pass laws to force everyone else to live by what I think is the best lifestyle. If I did, I'd be thinking like I was Hitler...or Mussolini...or God.

And I'm not. ;-)

There is drug rehab. There is also diet rehab. And alcohol rehab. And fitness classes. There's rehab for every kind of bad habit, Sawzaw.

I also pay for a war that I don't in any way support, the one in Afghanistan. I pay for other government policies I don't support too. That's also a fact of life right now. I don't like it, but I can't make everything else in the world perfect for me, can I? And I know it. So I accept that some of my tax money will always be spent on stuff that I didn't do and I don't believe in.

And I hope for improvements. De-criminalization of private and personal use of cannabis would be an improvement, in my opinion. It would free the police, people whose presence I greatly value, to devote their considerable talents to much more useful pursuits than busting private pot users, most of whom are no danger to anyone.

There are many drugs out there. Cannabis is way down low on the list when it comes to the really harmful ones. But it's ridiculously easy to grow and harvest! Any idiot can do it in his own home. And THAT's why it's still illegal, in my opinion. It cannot be exclusively controlled by big commercial marketing organizations nearly as effectively as alcohol and tobacco can, because it's so easy for the private person to produce it themselves....for free. All they need is a few seeds and some earth and a good source of light and some water.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 01:10 PM

Ah...the old quote the individual sad case gambit to prove an entire political point, eh, pdq? ;-) The mass media plays that sorry game, and so do the Democrats and Republicans, but it's just manipulative propaganda.

Two can play at that game.

Bob Dylan used pot too when he was young. What an underachiever, eh? ;-) Think where he'd be now if he'd never touched the demon weed!

Hell, virtually everyone I ever knew growing up smoked pot when they were young. Most of them seem to be doing fine now. The ones that aren't...well, they mostly succumbed to alcohol and cigarettes, but you could see that coming right from the start. Using pot was just one small part of the general drug using attitude that slowly brought them down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 02:20 PM

Cannabis psychosis? What utter bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 03:31 PM

Watch `Reefer Madness` sometime. THAT`S bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 04:22 PM

999... no, it's Bullshit propoganda.

All things in moderation, especially telling other people what to (not) do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 04:23 PM

"Think where he'd be now if he'd never touched the demon weed!"

Yes indeed where would he be? How in the hell does anybody know that? could have been better off or worse off.

False logic.

Can someone point out a performer that did not indulge and that made out a good as Dylan?

How about Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison?

Think of where they would be now if they never touched the Demon Weed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 04:25 PM

All things in moderation indeed. Pot in moderation doesn't hurt people. Alcohol in moderation doesn't hurt people. Sex in moderation doesn't hurt people. Food in moderation doesn't hurt people. Any of them taken in excess will hurt you eventually. Addictive personalities generally have a lot of trouble relating to a simple and practical concept like moderation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 04:37 PM

Don't get too carried away with reacting to the Bob Dylan example, Sawzaw. I was simply using it as a foil to show how pointless and irrelevant to the discussion pdq's original Charlie Sheen example was.   ;-)

It doesn't show you anything about pot either way. All it shows you is something (not much) about Bob Dylan and something (not much) about Charlie Sheen, and nothing more than that. It has no bearing on a discussion about cannabis.

One can always find individual human cases, both pro and con, to argue either side of any political argument that is ongoing.

Your ludicrous mass media and your ludicrous, corrupt 2 major political parties do it all the time. They find just ONE human story that appears to back some specious argument they're pushing (like "Joe the Plumber") and they beat it to death in the media for weeks or even months. Total idiocy! But it's designed to manipulate those millions of lazy, foolish, fearful minds out there that have never graduated beyond watching their favorite soap opera on TV and gossiping about their neighbours, and it works as propaganda because there are a lot of those lazy, foolish, fearful minds out there. Yessiree. They'd believe anything they were told if it came from the right source, the one they usually tune in to. You know what? America is probably getting exactly the government it deserves at this point in history. Garbage in....garbage out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:06 PM

The case for banning pot is very much the same as the case for banning alcohol, cars, sex, food, electricity, fire, water - and any number of other things that can be very bad for you indeed if used wrongly or used in excess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:30 PM

"lazy, foolish, fearful minds out there"

Why are you fearful of drug laws?

You don't mind paying for someone Else's lack of self control?

You don't mind paying for someones Else's failure as a parent?

What is the incentive for self control? For moderation.

Let's just lay back and do dope all day and fuck like mice and what the hell is the problem? Yeah if it feels good do it.

Let the goody goody Little Hawk saps carry our dead asses. Yeah that is the most goodest part of Socialism. You can be a burden on everybody else.

Problem is the dead asses multiply faster than the LHs and pretty soon you have 2 dead asses to every goody goody and then what?

The laws of natural selection that keeps things in balance have been defeated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 06:38 PM

Maybe the Taliban showed us all the way, Sawzaw... That's more or less how they saw things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:56 PM

So what is Charlie Sheen's problem LH?

I mean if you just leave people alone they will be OK in the end. Don't interfere because that only makes it worse. Right?

Psychoanalysis please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 07:58 PM

Some things like food are necessary, other things like alcohol and pot are not necessary.

To equate them is a logical falacy. A false dilemma or false dichotomy. Either all or nothing.

If we are going to ban drugs we may as well ban water and electricity too because they can be equally as dangerous.

Blatt Blatt Blatt, Does not compute.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:05 PM

Jimi Hendrix could play circles around Dylan... I mean, that is comparing apples aan oranges... Dylan??? Great song writer... Jimi??? Great guitarist... Bogus argument...

LH is right... IT ain't about _______________ ... It's about addiction to ______________ ...

I mean, there are folks who are addicted to Mudcat and who's lives would be fuller if it weren't for this joint... Should we make Mudcat illegal???

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:21 PM

`How about Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison?`


I met two of those people. Grass wasn`t their problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:21 PM

Sawzaw-
If you're worried about what health care of hypothetical pot addicts might cost you, think about what you're spending to arrest and jail casual users.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: gnu
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:27 PM

Sawzaw.. you are correct (in certain arguements) but you are not right. Big difference.

Some peeps NEED a high to be bothered to get through the day. If they didn't, well, they would be in your utopia. I hope your utopia continues for you and your life is rose gardens and sunshine.

There's more than a few folks out there that are in a world of shit and their sanity lies in a puff.... or even sommat prescribed by an MD.

I know that may sound "weak" to someone of your inherent strength and moral character but it's the way it is for a lot of peeps. And, your pontificating from your high horse don't matter a shit to them.

They are just trying to make through another day without taking crap from arrogant peeps like you.

What are YOU doing to help get rid of YOUR drug problem? Seriously, what ARE you doing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:42 PM

...and your life is rose gardens and sunshine.

And even with roses you can get a nasty scratch from the thorns - and too much sunshine is liable to kill you. Far more people die from that than ever have from using pot - maybe 10,000 a year in the USA alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 08:47 PM

I'm Saw's addiction, 999!!!

He is addicted to me... He is obsessed with me... He has read everything I have written anywhere on the innernet no matter where it is and has it all categorized in his Bobert files... I wouldn't be surprised if he's like one of them creeps in the horror flicks that has an entire room with my piccures on it and quotes from my many years of postin' here and elsewhere...

Maybe I should be against the law??? Hmmmmmmmm???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:01 PM

Having tried pot and deciding it is not worth the risks. I don't believe I am on any high horse. Nor do I believe this is utopia. I just haven't turned my life into my own personal hell on earth.

Having heard someone rant and rave about hating things and declaring who wants to kill who and dividing the world in to redn**ks and the rest of us, then bragging about smoking pot and drinking moonshine, Well Houston, we have a problem.

So how has pot made your life better? How can illegal alcohol impart anything to life that legal tax paid alcohol can't.

Tell Obama to come down off his high horse, He is the one saying pot is immoral.

I am only saying it is not worth the risks. And in Bobert's case it can lead to Paranoia.

If you would care to look Bobert, I spar with other people too. However you are the only one who refuses to man up to your gaffes.

You are constantly blurting out crap and accusing others of wrongly doing what you have done.

Don't you want to know that you are right? Don't you want to know if you are wrong so you can correct yourself and know you are right?

This claim that I am obsessed and stalking is another defense to avoid fessing up.

One time I got you to say you were wrong and I complimented you and never mentioned it again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 10:13 PM

See, 999...

I offer the last Sawz post as "Exhibit A"

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 12:13 AM

Pot is simply not a big deal. It's a much smaller deal than alcohol, and it's damned foolish to make it illegal and waste the time of the police and the courts on it.

You don't get it, Sawzaw. You strike me as a Don Quixote who's charging windmills endlessly when it comes to this particular issue. This issue has nothing to do with making choices between socialism or capitalism. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, and so are the people who passed the laws criminalizing the use of marijuana. The only reason they ever passed those laws in the first place was that it was mostly Blacks and Hispanics who were using it back then....and the laws were being passed by middle and upper class Whites who figured those people were all scum. It was guilt by association. If cannabis use had been customary in White culture the way alcohol or tobacco have been for centuries, then I think no one would have said "boo" about it.

It's trivial. A tempest in a teapot. A waste of time for people to get worked up about.

I couldn't care less if all the pot in the world disappeared...so belive me, I have NO personal stake in this matter whatsoever...but I know a stupid law when I see one.

I think you're just deeply afraid of things that don't match your own personal lifestyle. I'm not even slightly afraid of people who have smoked marijuana...but I'll tell you this: a lot of drunks do scare me. Yessiree. Specially that very common phenomenon, the angry drunk. Alcohol has a very ugly effect on a large segment of the population. It leads to a lot of violence, specially domestic violence. That's worth worrying about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:11 AM

Hey Hawk. If I am Don Quixote, Obama is da God Fatha.

I am merely agreeing with one of his policies so I don't get rubbed out see?

Why am I being bullied for agreeing with Obama?

Amos just said Obama is cool and 100 times smarter than any of the folks here who routinely try to put him in their box. Maybe some of his smarts and coolness will rub off on me.

Are you afraid of people who don't agree with you?

If you want to outlaw alcohol, I am with you. I can do without it. I can take it or leave it.

Down tha road a piece from me
Thars a 'ol holler tree
Where you lay down a doller or two
Then ya go round tha bend
An when ya come back agin
Thars a jug of that good ole Mountain Dew

Yeeeee Haaaaa


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 01:47 AM

No, Sawzaw, I'm intrigued by people who don't agree with me, and I always figure we could actually be good friends in real life if we weren't yakking on the internet where you can't see the other person's face or hear the tone of their voice or see their body language. I'm always curious to know why they believe the things they do. It helps me understand more about humanity when I find out.

I mean, hey, I disagree radically with a few of my best musical friends around here (in my town) about politics...or religion...but it doesn't stop us from being the best of friends anyway, because we share so many other good things in common.

I can also take or leave alcohol, so I know what you mean about that. I wouldn't miss it if it all disappeared, that's for sure. Still, I think passing laws against people drinking alcohol is utterly futile. Just pass laws against them doing harmful antisocial things while drinking or drunk, and you've got it covered. I recommend the same approach to all drugs. Prosecute the harmful acts such as assault, reckless driving, robbery, etc...but don't prosecute the substance use itself...because if you do then it just causes needless trouble for the huge number of people who do not commit any harmful acts when using that substance...and those people should be left alone by their governments and police.

The French and Italians and Spanish have an appeciation of fine wine with a meal that I can really relate to, by the way. They know how to drink moderately, and with style...a very civilized approach. I like that. As for the tastiest wines, I'd have to go with some of the German white wines, I think.

To me drinking is simply something you add to a meal like a grace note to a melody. So you drink a glass of wine with a good meal. That is typical in the Mediterranean countries, it seems to benefit the people's health, and it certainly isn't a harmful practice nor are the parents in those countries afraid to let their children sample a little of the wine at dinnertime. That is how you bring up kids NOT to abuse alcohol. You don't forbid it or make a big moral issue out of it. You let them see YOU YOURSELF not abusing it, but using it very moderately, and with meals...not to get drunk, but to add a lovely taste to the meal. That's how it was used in my parents' house, and I've never had the slightest problem with alcohol, because it was neither FORBIDDEN....nor was it abused. Children learn by example...and they are irresistibly attracted to what is FORBIDDEN when they hit their teens, so suppression and denial simply doesn't work. Generations of stubborn, prudish, and fearful parents have discovered that too late when they tried to protect their kids by suppression of something instead of simply setting an excellent example of moderation and good sense in front of them.

Most teens who end up abusing alcohol and drugs do so either because their parents themselves abused alcohol and drugs...or because their parents absolutely forbade those things and issued dire threats to their kids about them. That stimulates curiosity, rebellion, and experimentation in young people.

The worst possible case, however, would be a parent who not only abuses alcohol and drugs but ALSO stringently forbids them to their kids and issues dire threats. There's nothing that will raise rebellion in a teen faster than blatant hypocrisy on the part of his or her parents.

The society we live in itself is very hypocritical, because you know who gets to abuse both alcohol and illegal drugs with impunity most of the time? The very rich and famous, that's who. They figure their money and fame puts them above the law, and the police and courts usually don't bother them about it, because they have a lot of influence in high places.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:21 AM

As a libertarian I agree with most of what has been argued but I think time will show that there have been a lot more young lives spoiled than pot users want to admit.
Maybe they are too stoned to seek outthe evidence.
    Guest is mikesamwild, who forgot to reset his cookie. -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 09:35 AM

Dear Guest,

I have worked as both a drug counselor and a suicide hot-line counselor, graveyard shift, pardon the pun. Pot was never the problem. Other drugs or booze usually were. Part of the problem as you allude to is that when people want pot, they either grow it themselves or buy it from someone who is by definition a criminal. (I`m leaving out medical use as prescribed by MDs.) Legalize it and some of that goes away. While I do accept that grass has inherent problems (bronchitis, cancer, etc), addiction has never been the issue. I suppose I could point out that alcohol--a legal substance in Canada and the US (and other countries)--has been responsible for more family strife than grass ever has. But saying one thing is worse than another doesn`t make what it`s worse than necessarily good.

I would prefer to smoke a joint than have a glass of scotch (GASP). As LH pointed out, busting someone for a quarter oz of grass is a waste of the cops` and the court`s time and too effin` much tax money.

Keep well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Invest in your pot dealer
From: MarkS
Date: 30 Oct 10 - 10:59 AM

In the interest of liberty one should be able to do whatever one wants.
In the interests of sanity, one should not be permitted to interact with others in a way which is hazardous or hurtful, for example, driving a car while artificially "enhanced."


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