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BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor

Rafflesbear 26 Oct 10 - 09:06 AM
Dave Hanson 26 Oct 10 - 09:45 AM
Fred McCormick 26 Oct 10 - 09:50 AM
MGM·Lion 26 Oct 10 - 09:58 AM
Rafflesbear 26 Oct 10 - 09:59 AM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 26 Oct 10 - 10:20 AM
katlaughing 26 Oct 10 - 11:08 AM
Leadfingers 26 Oct 10 - 12:07 PM
kendall 26 Oct 10 - 12:16 PM
kendall 26 Oct 10 - 12:19 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 26 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM
Zen 26 Oct 10 - 12:31 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 26 Oct 10 - 12:32 PM
Jack Campin 26 Oct 10 - 12:37 PM
Desert Dancer 26 Oct 10 - 12:41 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 26 Oct 10 - 01:24 PM
Stu 26 Oct 10 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 26 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM
Emma B 26 Oct 10 - 02:13 PM
Richard Bridge 26 Oct 10 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,mauvepink 26 Oct 10 - 02:46 PM
greg stephens 26 Oct 10 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,mauvepink 26 Oct 10 - 03:01 PM
Rapparee 26 Oct 10 - 03:08 PM
Fred McCormick 26 Oct 10 - 03:10 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 26 Oct 10 - 03:12 PM
GUEST 26 Oct 10 - 03:27 PM
Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) 26 Oct 10 - 03:37 PM
Gervase 26 Oct 10 - 05:45 PM
Gervase 26 Oct 10 - 05:53 PM
Penny S. 26 Oct 10 - 06:05 PM
Alan Day 26 Oct 10 - 06:23 PM
Richard Bridge 26 Oct 10 - 06:35 PM
gnu 26 Oct 10 - 06:43 PM
gnu 26 Oct 10 - 07:45 PM
ragdall 26 Oct 10 - 08:05 PM
Emma B 26 Oct 10 - 08:05 PM
kendall 26 Oct 10 - 08:22 PM
katlaughing 26 Oct 10 - 10:26 PM
Gervase 27 Oct 10 - 03:01 AM
Big Phil 27 Oct 10 - 03:05 AM
acegardener 27 Oct 10 - 04:24 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 27 Oct 10 - 05:08 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 27 Oct 10 - 05:10 AM
Richard Bridge 27 Oct 10 - 05:11 AM
Gervase 27 Oct 10 - 05:38 AM
Rafflesbear 27 Oct 10 - 05:57 AM
akenaton 27 Oct 10 - 06:13 AM
Zen 27 Oct 10 - 07:35 AM
kendall 27 Oct 10 - 07:59 AM
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Subject: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:06 AM

I just heard on the news that someone paid someone else for the right to shoot and kill the most magnificent animal in England, a giant Red Deer stag at approx 9 feet tall.

Surely that animal roaming wild on Exmoor belonged to the entire nation, how can anyone claim the right to sell it to be shot?


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:45 AM

It's a case of, ' I can therefore I will, ' morals or ethics are not taken into consideration by such people, I find this very offensive.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:50 AM

Is there any way I can claim the right to shoot the individual that did it? Or would that be too humane?

BTW., IMO the stag belonged to itself, not to the nation or to any individual. Nobody had the right to shoot it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:58 AM

Be the rights & wrongs of hunting, shooting, &c as they may, I was most distressed & appalled to read the account of this in the paper this morning.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:59 AM

The story on BBC


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:20 AM

Sickening, this beautiful animal had a right to life. Hard to believe that an individual will no doubt share a brandy or two with a few friends over Christmas and point up to it's head mounted on his wall and boast about what he done. I do hope nature treats him accordingly in the years ahead.

I don't care if it is a fox, badger, stag or stout they have a right to live on this land as much as we have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:08 AM

Fucking bastards. May the head fall off the wall and cause a fatal injury to the idiot who did this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:07 PM

The poor (SO often) seem to have the attitude - "Its a nice day lets go out and Vandalise something"

The Rich (TOO often) say "Its a nice day lets go out and KILL something"


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:16 PM

I hope the meat is so tough he can't cut the friggin' gravy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:19 PM

We have "Sportsmen" who kill black bears. I's a macho thing; they are not fit to eat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:30 PM

This deer will come back to haunt him, in many ways...


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Zen
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:31 PM

Appalling and sickening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:32 PM

And kat, you're spot on...what a fucking bastard!   It was only the other day we were all reading about this fella, how he was being hailed as the biggest, most beautiful stag in the country...I guess someone else read it too and thought they'd 'have a bit of fun' and gain a spot of notoriety.

This will come back to the two people concerned...


I was listening to dear Carla Lane earlier on, on BBC Radio Devon, sounding so distressed and utterly befuddled as to why anyone would want to do this..


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:37 PM

Had something similar in Edinburgh two weeks ago. A fishmongers had in its window what they said was the largest lobster to have been taken from the Forth in forty years, and they were auctioning it. And I rather doubt the winner was going to put it back.

Lobsters live for decades, I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:41 PM

(I have eaten black bear... disguised in lasagna. The bear had perpetrated repeat house break-ins outside Fairbanks, Alaska.)

It's sad to lose this fellow in his prime.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:24 PM

I saw the 'Emperor' in a photo when another poster flagged up the killing. Now I'm for individuals who wish to, taking responsibility for getting their own meat for the pot or whatever, but there was something decidedly 'ominous' (as regarding an Omen) in the look of this 'royal' beast. I was certainly struck by the killing of this stag at some level hard to describe in any event.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Stu
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:37 PM

I posted this on the woodlands thread this morning, after having a post deleted last night:


(No posts were deleted from that thread:be sure to double-check after posting]

Exmoor Emperor Dead.

I'm re-posting this link because some kindly US mudelf seems to have deleted my original post (which, I admit was a bit of a rant but I certainly do not apologise). It was a rant because this story made me really angry and is relevant to this thread because it shows what we're up against, why where this animal was shot is important and the inherent class prejudice that underlies the Tories move to sell this land. Rich licensed hunters killing the largest single wild animal on the Island so he can stick it's head on his wall. The same people

Now, US mudelves listen up and try to understand: there is a profound difference in the wildlife biotas of our countries and the hunting that occurs in and of them. The huge majority of our country is cultivated land and that which isn't is generally upland which exists in National Parks (most often not wild ones like yours) and private land owned by rich people. The private land owned by rich people was taken, for the most part from our ancestors by the acts of enclosure or, if you're a highland Scot, forcibly in the clearances by rich Scottish nobles in collusion with the British government who wanted to break the Clans once and for all (the Jacobite rebellion was still in their minds). That and, of course, pure greed.

These acts of theft were both performed under the guise of 'economic reform', as the current act of selling of our forests and woodlands will be. Much of the vast area upland stolen from the people is now used for hunting; rich people paying for the privilege of blasting the shit out of animals for sport. Now, I don't object to hunting per se and as long as everyone eats what they kill and what they kill is not endangered then fine and dandy - I'll have a brace of pheasants for the pot myself, plus as in the US many normal people go out to bag a bird or rabbit for dinner and I would defend that right to the death. Many red deer (elk to our US brothers and sisters) are shot as part of managed culls - fine too. But much of the land is closed to ordinary people, and the rich landowners object to open access of our own countryside because it would affect the shooting for their rich customers, and the killing of the Exmoor Emperor signifies the contempt these tosspots (not a swearword - see Thomas Hardy etc) hold our common heritage in, and those of us not lucky enough to be stuffed to the gunnels with cash. They don't want the proles on their land, full stop.

In the UK we live with an increasing sense of distance from the land, which many of our ancestors have occupied for thousands of years - we have an innate sense we belong to the land and that the land is our common treasury which belongs to all who live on our Island. Whether people's families have lived here for one or a thousand years irrelevant in a sense; the feeling of belonging to a land is massively important to our wellbeing. We are losing that connection, and to many ordinary people (especially those in urban populations) any connection to the land they live on is an alien concept altogether. For every big stag killed like this, for every bit of woodland sold, that link gets even weaker and we become lesser people for it. We become more alienated, more angry and more spiritually bewildered and confused. We turn to more instant methods of gratifying this deep yearning to be part of the whole, and that gratification, in whatever form it takes, is ultimately hollow and transient and nothing more than a distraction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM

There was a bloke on the news saying the stag had to be killed cos its teeth were getting worn out. seems a pity, doesn't it?

I suppose if it were put in a deer park you could regulate its diet and find it easier things to eat.

There are lots of little deer round here in Dorset, and lots of people shoot them. in fact some local people don't believe in buying meat - given all the deer and rabbits that are around.

I think they look very nice (the rabbits and the deer) and I wouldn't fancy shooting them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 02:13 PM

It is a fact that deer are shot in large numbers all over Britain; with little or no predation the deer population is only limited by food and culling is a normal (some would say essential) part of deer management in the UK today.

This is usually carried out in a very low key way by stalkers who have an interest in improving the herd; they will intimately know their herd and will select specific animals (those who advancing age leave vulnerable to starvation etc) to remove to maintain viable numbers and the balance of deer in the area
In such culls the stalkers are legally required to use firearms and ammunition of an appropriate calibre for the species

It seems that the Emperor was a dominant stag still in his prime, not yet on any list for culling due to old age and, although it may be possible to construct an argument that his dominant position was ultimately not good for the gene pool of the herd, it seems that his slaughter was purely as a 'trophy' animal

The UK system of land ownership and game laws means that landowners have free rein to kill permitted species on their own land – or sell those right to others!

Sensible 'management' is not the same as commercial greed


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 02:23 PM

I think this might have been going to be Emperor's last successful rut (some other very large stags possibly his offspring have been noted) and maybe next year or the year after culling would have been merciful, but it is surely most unsporting to shoot during the rut. I'd be very upset myself if shot while on the job!

I tend to agree with Sugarfoot Jack above in both respects.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 02:46 PM

Before I go any further let me state I am not in agreement about what has gone on with this deer but I am taking it in context with the other 300.000 deer that are 'culled' each year ostensibly on conservation grounds. This deer was one in 300,000, magnificent though he was, and he may have been coming toward the end of his mighty reign due to his age. None of that makes it right.

We recently had a thread where humane slaughter of animals for meat was talked about a great deal. In some ways venison could actually be seen as likely to be more humane in its making than beef, lamb or pork. Imagine if you will, grazing the grass peacefully when BANG! and down you end. Dead. They say a good marksman can kill a deer outright with a single shot to the heart. No herding up, shoved into wagons, petrified journeys to a slaughterhouse... BANG! dropped in the fields you lived in. If it is true about the single shot and it always being done in the wild then could it not be more humane? I would take the advices of those who live in the country to tellme if this is the case.

The ethics of selling the death of an animal for a trophy seems quite wrong. In the case of a deer I presume most of the meat is used for consumption so it's not just about the trophy?

In short I have extremely mixed feelings on this subject. If they cold not have shooting rights woud we have so much extensive country left on which these animals and other game can breed? I know I would likely feel better off not having been born if I was raised simply for the sport of a marksman's bullet. Countryfolk say that many of these animals get a chance to escape. I have no idea how true that is. They also say that usually it is the weak, the injured and the infirm that are culled. This was not the case here was it?

It's all so mixed up emotions for sure. Magnificent beast, living his life as evolution intended (I am not saying evolution has intent!), shot down dead for a trophy. All we can hope maybe is that his death will now serve to better those lives of other deer?

In reality, sold as a trophy or not, our herds of deer face this end all over the country. If it is wrong for one it is wrong for all.

Quite whether he was the most magnificent animal in England depends on how we define magnificent. Many other animals fit the adjective depnding on your own personal definitions. What is good to see is so many here on Mudcat displaying their sense of feeling on the subject

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 02:51 PM

Well, I was brought up on Exmoor where I ran as free as this stag did. I would just like to say that I would have taken it very unkindly if someone had shot me, especially in the rutting season. Especially if it was by some rich trophy hunter from London or Taunton or some other furrin parts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:01 PM

It's a fair point Greg...

I can understand shooting animals that may have been mortally wounded in fights during the rut. That would be humane. But I would have thought killing healthy males/females in the breeding season was both counterproductive to conservation and stupid.

The report on the BBC this evening said tht somone hadseen men loading the beast into a vehicle in the dark. Would that mean this hapless beast was shot in the night with all the technology that would entail? Nightsights hardly seem fair or skillful in such hunting surely?

Anyone know more about this?

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:08 PM

If I wish to go elk (stag) hunting here in Idaho I have literally hundreds of thousands of public acres on which to do it. Granted, the hunting is managed but I can pick which Game Management Areas I wish to use. As long as I stay within the law -- the limitations on how many I can take, have them checked by Fish and Game, etc. -- I'm pretty much free. The same goes for fishing -- else I catch a sturgeon, and then I can't even remove it from the water for catch-and-release but have to keep it IN the water while taking out the hook.

Folks here -- well, "visitors" so far -- have killed elk and only taken the head. Do that -- Idaho has a law about "wasting the meat of game animals." Those that have been caught are heavily fined, lose all hunting privileges (and we have reciprocity with surrounding states!), and have a choice of community service or jail time.

If you kill an animal you should eat it or see that the meat goes to "Hunters For The Hungry" or a similar organization. Otherwise you're a subhuman killer.

And if you have an overabundance of a certain species, as many places here in the States have with whitetail deer, shoot the does. The bucks don't have the babies and the meat is just as good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:10 PM

I don't know whether culling is a necessary thing or whether it is sometimes just a guise for slaughter. But there is surely a world of difference between the sensible management of deer herds, and someone seeking permission to shoot any living thing, for no other reason than the "satisfaction" of killing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:12 PM

Emperor was a famous stag. Thus, he is worth far more to some.

I expect that the first story about him, a week or so ago sealed his death warrant, because some little shite read that and thought...."Aha!"

Everything these days has a 'sale' value..and Emperor had become a Celebrity Deer. More's the pity. Had the media not flagged him up in the first place, then who knows, he may well have still been alive today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:27 PM

the West of Scotland is infested with these sad bastards, from England, Denmark and Germany mainly...a very few Scots among them.

There is something quite sickening about killing animals for fun, something that harks back to the Roman circuses. I just cant understand it, some say it is to make up for sexual deficiencies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:37 PM

The four killed in the helicopter crash in the Mourne Mountains in Co Down, Northern Ireland on Saturday were all close friends of Prince Charles, they were in Ireland on a stag shooting trip.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 05:45 PM

If you don't cull then the older stags essentially die of starvation. Which is all very natural, I suppose, but probably not very nice for the stags.
As Emma says, there are no natural predators for deer in the UK, yet, land boundaries are finite. In the wild deer will migrate long distances to find pasture when the herd size increases, but it's not so easy in the UK (that, by the way, is why you see all those deer signs by motorways) so the only thing that regulates herd size is culling.
Most culling is carried out by professional stalkers, but 'trophy' beasts - those with reasonable antlers - attract a premium and the rights to shoot them are sold. The money that someone will pay to shoot a trophy stag will pay for a lot of husbandry and conservation on the estate. You can argue until the cows come home about the mentality of someone who wants to shoot a trophy stag, but it seems daft not to capitalise on the value of the sport for the betterment of the estate.
As for shooting during the rut; that's not usually done, and I wouldn't be in favour of it, but we don't know the full circumstances.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 05:53 PM

The four killed in the helicopter crash in the Mourne Mountains in Co Down, Northern Ireland on Saturday were all close friends of Prince Charles, they were in Ireland on a stag shooting trip.
And your point is? You seem to be an odd sort; rabidly pro-Tory, anti-immigration and borderline racist, yet not prepared to kow-tow to your 'betters'. A colour sergeant's bloody nightmare.
It must be so very confusing being Richie Black.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 06:05 PM

A couple of points - apparently his meat would be on the tough side. For eating, younger deer would be selected.

Secondly, the land ownership issue. Is Exmoor divided up into different ownerships? So he could have been safe if on someone else's land, not marked off with fences?

I camped down there once, on the Quantocks. And when I went to leave, the stag hunt had closed off the main road between Minehead and the south so I couldn't get out. An elderly lady in a tweed jacket, on a horse, looking like a Thelwell cartoon, flagged down a lorry going north, and held him up, and anything behind him. My presence behind her was not acknowledged at any point. Her horse though getting on to the verge might be a good idea, and I thought she was letting me by, so started up the car. I know it was the horse's idea, because she pulled it back onto the road. I would have been going away from the hunt - I knew where they were going, because the followers had all turned up outside the campsite, lined up for a good view. Funny how the followers always know where the prey is going to go, isn't it?

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Alan Day
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 06:23 PM

There is a Red Deer preservation Society that cull deer to control the herds. Near to here we have Ashdown Forest where there is a huge deer population. I suppose that many create car crashes ,but in a 40 mile an hour zone you should see the speed that the cars travel at ,with no thought that a deer may suddenly leap out into the road. A mother and her foal did that to me about two weeks ago ,I respect the speed limit and they were not injured.
The killing of this magnificent stag "The Emperor" sickens me .
I hope the killer is named and shamed
Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 06:35 PM

Richie - serves the bastards right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 06:43 PM

Gervase Webb.... surely you aren't suggesting attempting proper management of the herd? Why, that might be humane to anyone who understands same.

Hey.... tree huggers... lighten up a tad. Take a course in livestock management and see if you can figure out that it actually applies to wild animals as well.

As for shooting the humans who practice proper wildlife management, well, that might better than dying a slow and painful death in a nursing home. Can I hire you to pull the trigger on me when I need it?

Get outraged. It's all the fashion. Personally... Xmas is coming and, even if the meat is tough, a nice mincemeat pie or two, with vanilla ice cream, sounds yummy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 07:45 PM

Red deer... "These are the largest British deer, the subject for Landseers' Monarch of the Glen, with mature stags standing almost 48 inches (1.2m) at the shoulder...." (firstnature.com)

9' tall? What kinda deer stand 9' tall in Britain?


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: ragdall
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:05 PM

Rafflesbear,
It's sad that a local icon could so easily be hunted down and shot. If he was so important to the area, should he not have been protected by laws?

I'm assuming that a certain number of deer must be eliminated every year or there won't be enough food and diseases will become a problem. If many natural predators have been eradicated in England, isn't controlled hunting is the only way to prevent deer starvation and spread of illnesses?

We have "Sportsmen" who kill black bears. I's a macho thing; they are not fit to eat.

Kendall,
I wouldn't argue with you that some (many?) people kill black bears for fun, but I can't help wonder what you folks do to your bears to make them inedible?

Folks up here eat black bears. My parents and grandparents did, (I've never hunted.) My dad told me they taste like pork. A friend of mine who wasn't able to work fed his family on bear he shot (along with deer and fish he caught).

rags


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:05 PM

This kind!

I expect it was the
"giving the Emperor plenty of time to prove he's still the UK's alpha male......this is a very fine beast. He's so big and powerful.'

- right 'bring him on' sort of mentality


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:22 PM

I'm not against hunting, but killing a one of a kind like this seems a shame.
Bear meat is greasy, and if I want to taste pork I will buy pork.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:26 PM

IMO, this was murder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Gervase
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 03:01 AM

Poor Richie clearly does love his animals. He got so excited that he sent me a personal message: Have you a problem whiskers are do you want one ?
I do like to see an old man find a bit of passion in the twilight of his years!


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Big Phil
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 03:05 AM

Oh Deer,

Pun intended, I do wish the tree huggers who post on here had some idea of wildlife management, then their posts might make more sense.

There is very little land in England that is not owned by somebody. This owned land if it has game on it will (most of the time) be "rented" out to some shooting syndicate or other.

This deer that was shot, fell into the above situation, someone paid brass to shoot it - all legal and above board.

After a number of years a Stag will start to "go back" meaning his antlers will be smaller and he will start to lose condition. I also believe this beast was the dominent Stag for many years, time to alter the gene pool by taking him out and giving another chance to enhance the herd.

I summise that a handsome ammount of brass was handed over for the "pleasure of shooting this beast, no doubts many thousands.
It was "his time" and I have no problem with that.

If any of you moaners out there eat ANY kind of meat, I guarentee it will not be killed as humanely as this fine animal was, and that's a fact. End of.

Phil*


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: acegardener
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 04:24 AM

It was reported that it was shot from the highway, which I would have thought was an offence in it's self. But in defence of the culling if it was that and not just a trophy hunter, it was seeing off allcomers and shagging it's own daughters. A good enough reason for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 05:08 AM

It was also reported it was his time yet, the animal had a few more years to go before he reached the age of culling. So far for the not understanding tree huggers not understanding wildlife management.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 05:10 AM

newspaper report


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 05:11 AM

That's what all dominant males in herd animals do. The principle has worked for millennia. Incest is a wholly human concept. I have not seen any suggestion that the shooting was necessary to maintain the gene pool.

If the shooting was for genuine stock/herd management purposes and had taken place outside the rut it would be unobjectionable - compare the US culls of bison. But neither of those tests, apparently, were satisfied.

By way of comparison, there is an almost complete ban on taking freshwater coarse fish from English waters, because, allegedly, of the need to maintain stocks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Gervase
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 05:38 AM

Incest a wholly human concept? Try telling that to my rams!

And read the other articles in the Guardian; this one, which states:
"This beast may simply have got too big and too old for the managed land that it was on. It was getting to the point where he needed to be shot because he had already bred and there was a chance he could interbreed with his own daughters and granddaughters. While it is always a shame to lose an iconic animal, it's much better than starvation and disease,"
And this one, which adds:
"Red stags are in season and as long as the stalker was the landowner, or had the permission of the landowner, and used a legal calibre rifle, then no laws were broken in shooting this stag."

But I suppose it's far easier to jerk the knee than actually to understand the issue. The main bones of contention here are the decision to shoot at the start of the rut and the apparent condition of the stag. I can't make a judgement because I simply don't know the facts. That won't stop a lot of needlessly angry people proving that ignorance isn't bliss, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 05:57 AM

No, my main bone of contention is the taking of a national treasure in a national park for private gain apparently without those charged with looking after the park in the national interest having any say in it.

Will this animal turn up in the Natural History museum for all to see and admire?

I have spent two separate weeks in Exmoor, criss crossed it time and again looking for deer and in that time saw just one. The place is not overrun with them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 06:13 AM

Quite simply, killing for fun is sick! No matter who does it

Inflicting pain for fun is also sick, be it from feral children or brave hunters.

As I have said before, I've nothing against those pricks hunting....as long as its in the jungle, in the dark,and armed with a spear....in fact I would actively encourage it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: Zen
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 07:35 AM

That won't stop a lot of needlessly angry people proving that ignorance isn't bliss, of course.

I'm angry about it but am certainly not ignorant of the issues nor, I am sure, are many of the others who've posted and are likewise outraged.


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Subject: RE: BS: Englands Biggest Stag Shot on Exmoor
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 07:59 AM

Tree Huggers? Simple minded people make up simple names for complex situations.

Just for the record, I am a retired career conservation officer who fully understands the concept of "Culling". We have to do it here on the island of Isle Au Haut which is part of Acadia National Park. The deer overpopulate and many get pretty gaunt for lack of food. The natives can not even have a garden for their own food because the deer eat everything in sight.
That said, all I said was that to kill a one of a kind is a shame. On top of that, I have to wonder how much money changed hands. Let's call it what it is, slaughter.

How would you feel if someone destroyed the Mona Lisa? would you say, "so what, there are plenty of paintings to gawp at"?


We're all in it together, there's no one to blame,
It's become such a part of the race,
It's eternally tragic that which is magic
Be killed at the end of a glorious race,
From young seals to great whales from water to wood
They fall like leaves in the wind
But, we've fur coats and perfume and trophies on walls
WHAT A HELL OF A RACE TO CALL MEN.
(Song for the animals, David Mallett)


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