mudcat.org: Fees (concert admission prices)
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3]


Fees (concert admission prices)

Arthur_itus 26 Oct 10 - 01:05 PM
Dave MacKenzie 26 Oct 10 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,Girl Friday 26 Oct 10 - 11:56 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 11:56 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 11:52 AM
C-flat 26 Oct 10 - 11:43 AM
Folkiedave 26 Oct 10 - 11:42 AM
Ruth Archer 26 Oct 10 - 11:33 AM
C-flat 26 Oct 10 - 10:57 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 10:55 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 10:45 AM
C-flat 26 Oct 10 - 10:41 AM
Will Fly 26 Oct 10 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 26 Oct 10 - 10:33 AM
Sarah McQuaid 26 Oct 10 - 10:28 AM
Will Fly 26 Oct 10 - 10:26 AM
Sarah McQuaid 26 Oct 10 - 10:17 AM
Will Fly 26 Oct 10 - 10:16 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 26 Oct 10 - 09:51 AM
MGM∑Lion 26 Oct 10 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 26 Oct 10 - 09:47 AM
Will Fly 26 Oct 10 - 09:22 AM
stallion 26 Oct 10 - 09:13 AM
Wolfhound person 26 Oct 10 - 09:12 AM
DebC 26 Oct 10 - 08:58 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,Girl Friday 26 Oct 10 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,Desi C 26 Oct 10 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Woodsie 26 Oct 10 - 07:56 AM
Colin Randall 26 Oct 10 - 07:54 AM
MGM∑Lion 26 Oct 10 - 07:35 AM
stallion 26 Oct 10 - 07:02 AM
Arthur_itus 26 Oct 10 - 06:46 AM
Mo the caller 26 Oct 10 - 06:41 AM
C-flat 26 Oct 10 - 05:53 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 05:23 AM
Wolfhound person 26 Oct 10 - 05:08 AM
Vic Smith 26 Oct 10 - 04:58 AM
Arthur_itus 26 Oct 10 - 04:45 AM
George Papavgeris 26 Oct 10 - 04:24 AM
GUEST,Woodsie 26 Oct 10 - 04:05 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 03:12 AM
C-flat 26 Oct 10 - 03:08 AM
GUEST,Woodsie 26 Oct 10 - 01:55 AM
Tim Leaning 26 Oct 10 - 12:58 AM
Betsy 25 Oct 10 - 08:30 PM
George Papavgeris 25 Oct 10 - 06:44 PM
open mike 25 Oct 10 - 06:21 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 25 Oct 10 - 06:07 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:05 PM

If as an organiser, you decide to try and book somebody, you should already have an idea of how much you want to pay for said artist and of course what price you want to put on the tickets.

As a decent organiser, you would normally see how much the artist wants to charge first, assuming they can make the date you want to book them. If the fee seems OK or somewhere near what you can afford, you have a starting point. It's only polite to check with the artist if they are OK with a said ticket price. That is part of the negotiations. If you get past that hurdle, you probably have a booking. There are quite a few other things to discuss as well, before either agreeing to go ahead or not. What you decide between the two of you, has nothing to do with anybody else.

Your job as the organiser is to then make sure you deliver the goods as far as audience is concerned and the performers job from that point, is to entertain the said audience.

All the person wanting to go to the event needs to know, is how much the tickets are. They can then vote with their feet if they want to go or not.

There are many ways that a chat with an artist can lead to. e.g.

"We will do it for the door, but you need to charge £20 per ticket, but we won't demand a guarantee" That is normally performers who know and beleive that just their names will ensure a sell out for the venue.

"We will do it for £5 a ticket but you need to get 200 people through the door, however, we want £500 guarantee or 80% of the door, whichever is the greatest"

"You can charge whatever you like for a ticket and my fee is a flat guarantee of £400. No %"

Some artists will try to do a gig at a low fee if it is a new venue on the basis that they get future bookings.

However as an organiser, you need to respect the artists viewpoint and also not disclose to the general public your contract or what you discussed. If you do, then you run the risk of artists not wanting to come to your venue. You should also try and look after you performers in the best way you can.

It's all negotiation. If you can't charge £10 then don't book an artist who wants that. Book somebody within your budget. However don't slag the artist who didn't see it your way.

LOL I remember trying to book Barbara Dickson 2 or 3 years ago, having bumped into the agent, and asked the agent how much she would charge. The agent asked about the venue and numbers of people who could get in said "You can't afford her". I laughed and agreed, but I thought it was worth a try.

Basically, stick to who you can afford and who agrees with your policies, then nobody gets offended.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:05 PM

"People pay £3 for a pint of beer."

If I'm being charged that at the bar, I'll probably avoid the venue unless it's an artist I wouldn't be able to see otherwise. The ticket price is often secondary.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Girl Friday
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:56 AM

Sarah, I think we had a lot of discussion about your gig next year at Orpington. I believe you sent me if not a contract as such, certainly a questionnaire. Would you p. m. me please


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:56 AM

Arts Council?
Is folky stuff arts or crafts?
artiste or artisan
Hey another thread?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:52 AM

Its amazing who I can agree with sometimes....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: C-flat
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:43 AM

worth less than a bag of chips

Brilliantly put!!

In the context of other everyday purchases it seems we do undervalue the "product".
By putting a realistic price on it (i.e. not less than £10) maybe it's adding percieved worth/value to the buyer?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:42 AM

Ruth A. is absolutely correct. I remember a number of years ago a well-known group were lined up for a BBC appearance. When the BBC were told their fee (they wee naive in those days) the producer said - "If that is all they charge they can't be very good". Or words to that effect.

We do not value our music highly enough.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 11:33 AM

"It's a free world and all that, and it's not my kind of music, but as one who runs a folk club I'd not book anyone on that premise, and wouldn't knowingly pay to see someone who had that criteria. I've recently attended a conference funded by The Arts Council to look at ways to increase the appeal of Folk Music to a wider audience, and pricing a wider audience out of it I feel is what vin is doing"


I was at that conference, too. Really? A tenner to see someone who headlines at many festivals is "pricing a wider audience out of it"?

People pay £3 for a pint of beer. Fish and chips will set you back £7. A cinema ticket costs £7. A gig at a local arts centre will start at around £12 or £14. And that's not even beginning to consider arena concerts, football matches...but you can go to a folk club and see a concert for £2 or £3.

Why do we in the folk community place so little value on our product, and by extension, our artists? We think they're great, and we love what they do - so how come we think they're worth less than a bag of chips?

Maybe, as Sarah has suggested, devaluing our product actually lessens its worth in the mind of the potential customer. I can tell you that in terms of basic marketing theory and practice, lowest price does not guarantee maximum, or even bigger, audiences. It's to do with the perceived value of the product. In any case, artificially low prices does not seem to be increasing folk club attendance at the moment, does it? Maybe it's time to try a different approach...


In any case, Vin doesn't appear to be pricing himself out of the market - as people have said, he specifies a minimum charge, and the gigs are rammed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: C-flat
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:57 AM

Sad but very true.....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:55 AM

C flat
There a lot of performers I have met who feel the world is against them and should recognize their true greatness and will try to get paid even if they are just at their local for the weekly open mic.
There are also plenty of people who have no respect at all for the hard work and dedication it takes to be able to sing and play like a lot of the contributors to mudcat can.
I know a very good local performer who will no longer play for free at charity do,s, after the one he did for free and discovered the organizer took very hefty chunk of the money raised for their own "expenses"
He insists on being payed then donates as he feels able.
Seems fair in the circumstances.
its a cold old world sometimes innit?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:45 AM

I am sorry Will and Michael both.
But I just see the word as derogatory in the context.
The word mandate Will?
The point I was making was just that however unpleasant this act's agent was, or if you think that the performer should leave the ticket pricing to the club organizer,if the parties agree to it than neither side could be impertinent.
If the act turned up then wanted free beer or the organizer decided not to pay the full amount......


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: C-flat
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:41 AM

It's a really interesting point that Sarah makes and follows my initial instinct that the policy has more to do with the type of customer than anything else.
I know from my work experience how critical "price points" are, too cheap and it's false economy, not worth having, too expensive and it'll turn other folk away, so I don't see why folk music or any other form of entertainment would be any different.
Maybe it's about "pitching" it to where the artists believes his or her level should be?
Maybe there's a lot of us out there under-selling ourselves???


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:34 AM

Breath taken in? Brow mopped? :-)

"Better" is a moveable feast, isn't it? Depending on the viewpoint. For me, a small, intimate club, where the audience and performer are fairly close - however rough'n ready the ambiance might be - is often a joy. For a performer, I can see that a reasonably sophisticated club with, say, a separate area to relax in, a decent stage, PA system if necessary, and high capacity seating, can be a more attractive proposition.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:33 AM

Sarah,

I'd be interested in discussing the phenomena you describe and experimenting a little for the gig you are likely to be doing for us next year ....... we'd have to agree on how the risk could be shared though!

Paul Arrowsmith


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Sarah McQuaid
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:28 AM

Further to previous -- After sending my last post, I realise I'd better clarify -- by "tend to be better venues" I don't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with venues that charge little or nothing on the door -- some of my favourite places to play in the world, run by my favourite people in the world, are places that charge little or nothing on the door! By "better venues" I mean larger clubs that host concerts on a regular basis that host high-profile acts. Deep breath, mop brow ....

Sarah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:26 AM

Interesting, Sarah. I've recently seen an excellent performer at a local club in Sussex, for which I booked in advance. In a few weeks' time, I'm going to see that same performer at another local club - I've also booked in advance, and the cost for this ticket is 20% less than the first one. The first gig was packed to the gills, and I'm absolutely sure that the second gig (same capacity) will be similarly packed to the gills. The difference in price means absolutely nothing to me - I'm just really glad of the opportunity to see the performer again in a venue near me!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Sarah McQuaid
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:17 AM

Thanks to Debra Cowan for alerting me to this discussion, which is highly relevant to conversations I've been having over the past few weeks. I've just finished a 25-date UK tour, am now setting off on an equally long US tour, and have been having repeated discussions with my road manager about the ticket price issue -- have been considering setting a similar minimum ticket price rule myself. Basically I find -- both on my UK tours and on the US tour I did last Feb-March -- that the higher the ticket price, the bigger the audience. I don't know whether this is because people see a high ticket price and think the gig must be worth going to, or because the venues that charge more on the door tend to be better venues and therefore get better crowds. Either way, it seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb, for me anyway, that if a gig carries a low ticket price it's probably not a good idea to do it. It's also not very nice for punters who've forked out good money for a ticket if they then see that people 50 miles down the road can pay half the price for the same show.

I'll be interested in continuing to follow this discussion, and might raise the same issue on assorted other fora as I'd like to know what others have to say about it!

Sarah McQuaid

http://www.sarahmcquaid.com


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:16 AM

Whether it's 'impertinent' or not depends, I suppose, on your view of the fine dividing line between the business of the performer and the business of the club. In my view, ticket prices are the business of the club, not the performer.

In the example I quoted at a local Sussex club, the forced ticket price wasn't the subject of a discussion - it was a mandate by the performer's agent. 'Charge this ticket price or you don't get the performer.' I wouldn't have done business on those terms.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 10:09 AM

"merely to fulfil his contract with them"
MtGM
I would not consider it impertinent to put forward my terms and conditions whilst in the process of negotiating my contract.
Why do you ?
Both sides are able to discuss the contract and decide if it is suitable or not .
Your use of the word seems to denote a master servant or adult child sort of a relationship not a prospective service user and provider coming to an arrangement.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:51 AM

p.s. An artist dictating ticket prices just wouldn't work with the model I describe above.

Accept the artist has the right to run their business as they see fit though. But it would make it difficult for me to book someone who wouldn't work with me in finding a compromise though (hasn't happened yet though).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: MGM∑Lion
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:48 AM

Tim Leaning ~~ I use the word as follows

>im∑per∑ti∑nent †(m-pŻrtn-nt)
adj.
1. Exceeding the limits of propriety or good manners; improperly forward or bold: e.g. impertinent of a child to lecture a grownup.

Free Online Dictionary<

as I think a guest who tries to dictate the policy of the venue at which he appears is going beyound his brief, & trying to pre-empt someone else's job and prerogative, in a manner I would call "improperly forward or bold".

~Michael~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:47 AM

The KFFC model is to charge a lowish (usually £5) admission charge. We then ask people to be as generous with their raffle ticket buying as they see fit....... this works. We had 70 plus in for an act last month and had a licensed bar (we keep profits towards club funds, these are quite gigh with a large number of people in) and only took £55 on the raffle.

We were in a really tight spot with only 13 paying audience month this month for a lesser known act...... but we took £44 on the raffle. We did not have a licensed bar.

The audience really responded to help the club (and performers) out. Very heartening as a club organiser.

We only put on a concert once a month and do not have singarounds to subsidise performer costs.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:22 AM

they have every right to run their business the way they see fit. If that means dictating a certain price for tickets, so be it.

Every performer does indeed have the right to conduct his or her own business as they see fit. And so does every club organiser. The problem arises when one tries to conduct the business of the other.

I know several clubs where admission fees for singers' nights (no guests) help to pay the fees for professional guests on other nights. This isn't just a question of subsidising the contracted guest fee to make the admission charge more palatable. Such small clubs, often with limited seating capacity, can't afford a sky-high admission charge to pay for a guest's high fee. Their strategy is to pay the guest's fee by calculating a capacity seat price that, when added to the "subsidy" obtained from the singers' nights, makes up the sum required. This is a calculation that is the business of the club organiser.

It's perfectly acceptable for a club organiser and potential guest to discuss such things as the venue capacity and the possible ticket price range that the club's public will accept when discussing a fee, and whether it's a set fee or a percentage or some combination of the two. But when the price has been agreed and the contract signed, it's up to the club to do what it things best.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: stallion
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:13 AM

I am afraid that a few of guest booking folk clubs have gone the way local floor singing sessions and many more will do so I fear. I didn't neccessarily agree with what I was putting forward just adding a new dimension to the debate. I am full of cold and a bug at the moment and too tired to rant on. I think people should be asked to pay what they can afford to pay. I know there will be dishonest people but that is far better than means testing, pensioners and students dispensations are ok but the students next door are running cars and at least one spent the summer in Italy at Mum and Dads villa, and I know at least a dozen pensioners that own second homes in europe and even one with a Flat in london and house in Florida as well as the house he lives in in Devon. I am interested to know why it is, maybe it is to give the support artist more money. Dare I ask? Nah !!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:12 AM

Arthur-itus

I understand your point about artist input time and all that: I know a gig is not just the hour or so the artiste is on stage. I understand that organisers of whatever venues have to make ends meet, and that performers have to pay bills etc.

I have to live too, and do so on very little, but that means NOT being able to afford nights out with 10 quid ticket prices, just for starters.
I'm not the only one by a long way, and for some it's a lot harder than for me - I don't have to pay rent or mortgage.

This type of audience is effectively being excluded from most "arts venues" in whatever art form, and that's just not right.

Paws


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: DebC
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:58 AM

This is a fascinating discussion. I have always wondered about admission charges in UK folk clubs. They are certainly lower than here in the States. Most US folk societies charge $10-$15 (approx. £7-12) and in Canada it's $20. House concerts use the suggested donation model with the same range of numbers. Even when the exchange rate was 2-1, I was making less in the UK than what I make in the States or Canada.

Also, as someone said above, artist fees are wages and in my experience have not increased in the folk clubs, though costs for artists (and I am sure venues as well) have increased. It's damned expensive to tour in the UK and I certainly don't do it for the money, but it is always interesting to note that to make a UK tour work, I have to book at least 14 or 15 gigs just to break even.

I have always felt that ticket prices are a decision that should be made by the organiser, though some have asked me to suggest a price. I think George made some excellent points above and Vic did as well. Ticket prices are tricky as someone said above: 1) you charge what the market can bear and 2) if you cannot meet the terms of an artist's contract the artist doesn't get booked at that venue.

I don't know Vin personally, but I have seen him perform. Like many others who have been in the biz for years and years and can guarantee a full house, IMO he and they have every right to run their business the way they see fit. If that means dictating a certain price for tickets, so be it.

Debra Cowan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:36 AM

"But that's none of his business, Stallion. It is not his job to ensure the club's survival, merely to fulfil his contract with them. I still feel that for him [or anyone] to dictate their admissions policy to them is an impertinence."

This word impertinence.
I only have experience of it in the context of 1950's politicians being upset by Robin Day etc.
Could you expand on your use of it in this context please.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Girl Friday
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:09 AM

Leadfingers said "Small Folk Clubs , even today VERY rarely charge any thing like £10 for admission ". Thanks for that comment O F F is one such small club. A good audience today is 15 people paying £5 to £7.00 to see a good range of guests, but no true super stars. I know that I can't afford to pay the fees, There are performers who will fill the club, but the audience will only be for that person. Other times most of them don't attend. Even so, I will endeavour to get the best value I can from every booking . One thing I do promise is a guaranteed minimum fee against 100% of the door, whichever is greater. I always am booked one year in advance, and though I lose money sometimes , we manage to tick over. I'll say one thing in defence of clubs (not artists) who charge £10.00. They may have to pay for the room. I do to, but very little.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:05 AM

It's a free world and all that, and it's not my kind of music, but as one who runs a folk club I'd not book anyone on that premise, and wouldn't knowingly pay to see someone who had that criteria. I've recently attended a conference funded by The Arts Council to look at ways to increase the appeal of Folk Music to a wider audience, and pricing a wider audience out of it I feel is what vin is doing

Desi C
The Circle Folk Club
Coseley UK
WV14 9JH
Every Wed night


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 07:56 AM

Exactly my point - the guest is guaranteed his fee whatever! This has never been a problem with the scores of professional artists who have performed at the club over the lawst 15 years or so. It IS to do with image, ego and vanity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Colin Randall
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 07:54 AM

I remember Ewan MacColl demanding a proper stage, absolute quiet during his performance (which would have been with Peggy Seeger), likewise bar firmly closed and no one allowed in or out. The fee was also quite expensive by most standards.

I'd have paid the money because they were worth it, and I'm sure we could have put some boards on beer crates. But whatever the pub manager would have said about his bar sales, anyone who remembers the Folk Forum at The Castle Hotel, Bishop Auckland will know why, short of hiring bouncers, I couldn't make any confident assurances about silence and comings & goings. So we had to go without.

Can't get excited about the debate on artists insisting on minimum fees, though. I can see no reason why he/she/they shouldn't, and no reason why a club organiser should not regard it as a legitimate reason for not booking them.

As I may have mentioned in a thread long ago, easily our best night, after the club had moved to another Bishop Auckland pub, was when an error led to both Tony Captsick and Christy Moore turning up on the same date (whose fault, Christy's or mine, being the subject of an alcohol-fuelled dispute). We agreed with CM that we'd raise prices and give him whatever remained after TC had been paid. A big crowd came, both got the money they'd originally expected and both also proceeded to share the task of drinking my dad's drinks cabinet dry afterwards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: MGM∑Lion
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 07:35 AM

But that's none of his business, Stallion. It is not his job to ensure the club's survival, merely to fulfil his contract with them. I still feel that for him [or anyone] to dictate their admissions policy to them is an impertinence.

Arthur, your last posting was an accurate account of what can be involved in doing the gig; but I can't see it as relevant to the question at issue, which is, to what extent is it the business of the performer to dictate policy to the organisers?


~Michael~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: stallion
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 07:02 AM

It's a long long time since I saw Vin perform, mainly because by the time I get my arse in gear the tickets are sold out. The way i see it he is ensuring the club maximise their profits so that they can survive on half empty nights the rest of the time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 06:46 AM

Paws, you do have a point, but when you want to book a top artist, you are normally controlled by what they can earn, elsewhere.

I once tried to book xxxxx who were willing to come to the venue and were happy with the ticket price, but when I explained what our max number of people we could get in, they turned it down as they were playing in theatres with 300 or more audiences. I understood and wished them well and carried on with trying to book the next performer(s). There was certainly no hard feelings. It's supply or demand.

Sometimes people do not understand what goes on in the background. They arrive just before the show, sit down and enjoy it and go home.

However, what they do not realise, is that for the performer(s) it's their salary.

OK so they live 3/4 hours from your venue. Lets say, that by the time they have everything together, they set off at mid day. They get to the venue about say 5pm. They set all the gear up and do their sound checks. If they are lucky, the venue has provided them with a meal. The audience arrive beteewn 7 pm to 8pm. There is normally a support act who may do 30 minutes before the main act. The main act gets on lets say by 8:45pm and finsihes about 11pm after breaks etc. They then chat with their audience afterwards and at the same time try to pack all their gear. With a bit of luck, they may be ready to go at midight. They have a choice - do they stay at a B&B or drive home. Some do some don't. If they have a gig the next day, they do the B&B.

So at the very minimum, this band has spent 12 hours (or 16 hours if they travel home) to entertain you.

What price do you put on that and what about all the free work that the venue does in getting it organised and doing their utmost to make sure you are happy. Many hours go into one gig.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Mo the caller
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 06:41 AM

The suggestion that a venue in one place would be empty at £12 and another packed a £7 is surely irrelevant. If it is a club subsidising the guest nights from club night takings it can make the event 'ticket only' and give preference to it's regulars. That's what a club is about, surely. You support it regularly and uses it's reserves to put on acts you want.
And the price of petrol these days would outweigh any savings unless the two venues were close. In which case maybe the artist should not accept 2 bookings without telling them so that they can consult on whether there is enough audience for both.

But comparing a commercial venue with a club is like comparing apples and melons. Audience should realise that and not feel agrieved.
Hmm .. maybe the artist realises it too and wants to play in the commercial venues, and thinks that appearing elsewhere for less would spoil his chances.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: C-flat
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 05:53 AM

If I was going to show my arse then I'd certainly insist on controlling ticket prices!! Nothing less than £10 should guarantee my modesty would be preserved!!!!
In fact I wouldn't be suprised to be offered £10 NOT to show my arse!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 05:23 AM

Glad we are all mates again.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 05:08 AM

And for those of us who can't afford 10 pounds? (+ travel, beer, baby-sitting, whatever else an evening out costs)

High priced venues of any sort are excluding possible audience. I know nothing at all about the sums, though I totally accept that venues have to cover costs, but something's amiss somewhere.

Paws


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 04:58 AM

George wrote
"Let's not all show our arses"


Hmm, George is about to play our club for the first time... I wonder if I need to put a new rider in the contract.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 04:45 AM

"And I will disagree with you Betsy on one thing, and vehemently at that: Let's not all show our arses, the thought of seeing yours has put me right off my feed this morning, not that mine is much of a work of art either!"

So glad about that George LOL :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 04:24 AM

I should also have said that I believe 100% that C-Flat intended no criticism of Vin (see his original thread title), but the title change and a few comments here and there inadvertedly and unintentionally "politicised" the thread.

And I will disagree with you Betsy on one thing, and vehemently at that: Let's not all show our arses, the thought of seeing yours has put me right off my feed this morning, not that mine is much of a work of art either!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 04:05 AM

I don't have any organising involvement with this club anymore. I just attend as a member. When I queried why the said act was so expensive I was not happy with the reason given and have chosen not to go to that event. I have no axe to grind. I just thought I would find out what others thought. This is the whole point of these forums. I personally think that it is a downright cheek to ask a club to up the price of tickets way above what people in the area normally pay for this sort of solo act. That's continuity out of tyhe window in my opinion.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:12 AM

Woodsie

Looks like u get the guests you like on the terms you think fair.
So.......
You must be a happy person with no axe to grind.
Eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: C-flat
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:08 AM

I can only assume that those people taking offense at this thread consider themselves friends of Vin and percieve him to be under attack here.
I'm weary of repeating myself....but...

I've nothing against Vin Garbutt, I think he's entitled to charge whatever people are prepared to pay, I don't think he owes me, or anyone else anything, and I'd be happy to pay £10 to see him.

What I was trying to understand was an artists motive for setting ticket prices when his fee is guaranteed anyway? ANY ARTIST.
George Papavgeris makes an excellent comment and may have got the rights of it in suggesting it has more to do with continuity and fairness. Thank you George for an intelligent response.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Woodsie
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:55 AM

We are talking about a small "folk club" run by amateurs. We've had Martin Carthy, Wizz Jones, Show Of Hands, Dave Swarbrick perform none of which asked for a fixed high ticket price - and they all got paid well above their contracted minimum fee by receiving a % of the tickets, which were usually in the range of £4 - £7. Then this character, who as far as I am concerned is not in the same league as those I've just mentioned, demands a minimum of £10 per ticket! Well I suppose he wants to keep his music amongst the middle classes - as I along with the people in the area who are unemployed and on income support or grafting for minimum wages won't be attending.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:58 AM

Not often I would agree with Betsy 100%
But he hit it in the noggin.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: Betsy
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 08:30 PM

Well done George , Dick Greenhaus , Arthur and Joe for bringing some sense and sane comments to this grossly, distasteful, personalised matter.
The whole matter in the opening Thread relates to an UNCHECKED statement.
Perhaps we could start a new thread whereby all Mudcatters divulge their Monthly salary.Yeh - let's all show our arses !!!!
If the entrance fee is worth it to YOU, that's all that matters. No one is forcing anyone to book ANYONE . I'm sure that lots of other individuals and groups have Terms and Conditions proposed to Organisers ,which in turn the Organiser may accept or reject.
Let's not vilify this great performer in this manner,I don't know what is going on here, but this guy VG has been performing around the English speaking world for 40 years now and wowwing audiences graet and small .
Where does it all end - how much George wants ?,how much Tom McConville wants? how much Martin Carthy wants ? etc.etc .
It's their business how they make arrangements with Organisers - and the only thing that matters to you is whether the entrance fee is worth paying.
As for those organisers who take pride in not booking Vin , that's entirely THEIR business , but IMHO I feel sure they have deprived their audience of an evening with a very decent and remarkably talented performer, songwriter, musician and goodly humoured person.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 06:44 PM

There is one element that nobody has mentioned, yet I know it for a fact that it features in many of the established artists' thinking: If you have a "following", with people prepared to travel more than 20-30 miles to see you (and I know that at Vin's gigs there are almost always people who have travelled 100 miles or even much longer) then you want there to be some parity in the ticket prices at which people can come and listen to you, both in fairness to your followers and also for the non-subsidised venues. Why would anyone go to see Vin at (say) the Red Lion in Birmingham for £12 if they can go to Bedworth to see him for £7 (subsidised because Bedworth has singers' nights)? You'd end up with a 150-seater venue staying half-empty and a 40-seater one hanging punters from the rafters, and those who went to the "expensive" one feeling cheated.

Price setting is a complex subject and it's no good seeing it from a single perspective, be that the artist's, their agent's, the venue's or the punters'. Whereas for the average performer such issues may not arise, for the more successful ones it is important to get it right, or they risk upsetting their fan club.

I know that Vin cares deeply about keeping things fair for his fans, and in the interests of that he is prepared to take a "hit" and be refused opportunities at some venues. And he is not the only one by a very long chalk.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: open mike
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 06:21 PM

equivalent money exchange....is what?
£10 = 10.00 GBP = 15.71 USD

I think most folks would pay $15 for a concert..
and most will pay $15 for a c.d.

some venues make the artist promise not to play
within a certain mile radius of the place
for a certain amount of time..

some festivals have a similar clause...

so that people won't attend another event or venue
to see the musician, and will only have the performance
at that venue avaialble..


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Fees (concert admission prices)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 06:07 PM

"I want to support the venue and ensure it has a full house, I feel it's my duty as a member of the local folk community, it's a new performer and I want to see if he/she is good or not, it's a not-so-good performer and I don't want his/her performance to be a flop, etc."

Joe, if only more people this side of the pond supported these ideals..

I run some concerts (KFFC) on this side of the pond..... we had 70+ in last month for a well known act..... and only 13 this month for an excellent but little known show. It's really frustrating but we can only seem to get people out for the established acts, people just won't take the chance.

Entry was £5 for either event, so I don't think the fee is an issue.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 25 October 2:12 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Cafť Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.