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BS: Language Pet Peeves

meself 05 Dec 20 - 11:50 AM
Jos 05 Dec 20 - 10:22 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Dec 20 - 09:38 AM
Jos 05 Dec 20 - 09:26 AM
Doug Chadwick 05 Dec 20 - 04:20 AM
Mrrzy 04 Dec 20 - 10:37 PM
Mrrzy 04 Dec 20 - 01:41 PM
Donuel 04 Dec 20 - 01:38 PM
leeneia 04 Dec 20 - 11:21 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Dec 20 - 06:46 AM
Donuel 04 Dec 20 - 06:31 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Dec 20 - 06:12 AM
Donuel 03 Dec 20 - 11:32 PM
Lighter 03 Dec 20 - 07:06 PM
Mrrzy 03 Dec 20 - 04:22 PM
ripov 03 Dec 20 - 09:01 AM
Mrrzy 02 Dec 20 - 11:05 AM
Jos 02 Dec 20 - 09:07 AM
Donuel 02 Dec 20 - 08:40 AM
Mrrzy 29 Nov 20 - 03:16 PM
Jos 29 Nov 20 - 02:11 PM
leeneia 29 Nov 20 - 01:30 PM
meself 29 Nov 20 - 12:08 PM
Jos 29 Nov 20 - 10:19 AM
Jos 27 Nov 20 - 04:33 AM
Thompson 27 Nov 20 - 04:12 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 20 - 05:08 PM
Mrrzy 26 Nov 20 - 04:55 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 20 - 03:26 PM
Mrrzy 26 Nov 20 - 03:02 PM
Jos 26 Nov 20 - 01:06 PM
leeneia 26 Nov 20 - 12:38 PM
Jos 26 Nov 20 - 07:21 AM
Thompson 26 Nov 20 - 06:42 AM
Jos 26 Nov 20 - 06:20 AM
Jos 26 Nov 20 - 06:08 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Nov 20 - 05:31 AM
LilyFestre 25 Nov 20 - 08:41 PM
Lighter 25 Nov 20 - 08:09 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Nov 20 - 07:13 PM
Mrrzy 25 Nov 20 - 05:25 PM
Jos 25 Nov 20 - 10:12 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Nov 20 - 09:45 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Nov 20 - 09:21 AM
Jos 25 Nov 20 - 08:33 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Nov 20 - 06:23 AM
Donuel 25 Nov 20 - 06:20 AM
Steve Shaw 25 Nov 20 - 06:01 AM
BobL 25 Nov 20 - 04:19 AM
leeneia 24 Nov 20 - 11:57 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 11:50 AM

One that's become prevalent, in North America, at least: "on behalf of" meaning "on the part of"; e.g., "there was a great deal of nonsense on behalf of Giuliani" meaning "there was a great of nonsense on the part of Giuliani [on behalf of someone else]".


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 10:22 AM

Good idea, but I gave up Tesco a while ago. They kept overcharging me and refusing to honour their policy of refunding double when a customer is overcharged.

But I have an Aldi on one side of the road and a Lidl just opposite it on the other side. Maybe I'll pick one of those.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 09:38 AM

If they say "whereby" just butt in quickly and say "Tesco..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 09:26 AM

I keep coming across people using 'whereby' when they mean 'where'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 04:20 AM

......how can a *movie* have a guest star?

Perhaps when it is part of a series - "The Movie"; "Return of the Movie"; "Movie III, the Next Generation" - with a regular cast. The guest star would be someone well known, but not for that genre, who joins them for one film.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 10:37 PM

Not a *pet* peeve as I never saw it before, but how can a *movie* have a guest star?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 01:41 PM

Foe, snicker...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 01:38 PM

Its the difference between being on the A list or the B list on the talk circuit. When the highest executive in the world is incapable of formal speech it is pathetic. Trump jibberish proved untranslatable into Japanese. Japan has a fairly formal culture.

My Asian friend makes himslf understood despite some very strong accents. But I know I am missing up to half of what he is saying. I think it is likely he's missing half what I say.
1/2+1/2=1 understanding


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 11:21 AM

"Let's celebrate colour in the way people express themselves informally."

That's a beautiful thought, Steve. Good for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 06:46 AM

People who write ex cathedra don't have to be careful. Bragging that I take some care isn't bragging at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 06:31 AM

Steve writes from the throne, Trump talks from a barstool and can't write.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 20 - 06:12 AM

I try to TYPE decent English on this board. I review what I've typed in the hope that any errors or absurdities that get through are solely down to the fact that I mislaid my reading specs or down to an undetected bit of "assistance" from predictive text or spellchecker. I'm not bothered about anyone else's foe passes :-) as long as they don't challenge mine. Spoken word is not the same. We shouldn't be quick to pick up on what people say off the cuff. Let's celebrate colour in the way people express themselves informally. Let's cringe and delight in equal measure, preferably silently...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 11:32 PM

Alot of people are saying they are peeved bout the way I talk I talk lika stable gene yus I talk like bing bing bong bong and they complain they complain about cohesion coherent sea and comprehenchmen but you understand zackly what I'm sayin I tell ya it drives them crazy cuz you unerstand what I'm sayin. See you get it. Those fake news light wait journalists don't getit but you do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 07:06 PM

In my day, you "played" specific sports, like baseball, but you "participated" or "took part in" sports generally.

I first noticed teens talking about "playing sports" in the late '70s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 04:22 PM

What does one do with sports if not play them? Or is it ok in plural?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: ripov
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 09:01 AM

"play sport"
play football, yes
play baseball, yes,
but play sport, no,
you can sport(and play)on Flora's holiday
historically sport refers to amusement, or entertainment in the song            Wednesbury Cocking (I think Wednesbury is correct,it's in th right area but I've never heard of Wedgebury)in th DT)it refers to placing bets, a very healthy pastime


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 11:05 AM

Ooh unpeeve... NPR just said And Trump lied and said x instead of Trump claimed x without evidence. Good on NPR.

Meanwhile WashPo is touting recipes for potato latkes. How about fried potato latkes, eh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:07 AM

"set to"

It's everywhere:

Debenhams stores are set to close ...
The covid19 vaccine is set to be rolled out ...
The queen is set to spend Christmas at Windsor ...

It makes me think of a long row of up-ended dominoes, all set up and waiting for somebody to give the one at the end a push.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 08:40 AM

INCREDIBLE
It means impossible to believe.
I have always felt the word is mostly misused.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 03:16 PM

It shouldn'ta oughto've...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 02:11 PM

The problem isn't whether he said "If we had taken precautions" or "If we had been a bit more careful" - it's whether he said "If we had taken precautions ..." (I'm happy with that), or "If we'd've taken precautions ..." (which is not the English I learned many years ago).

Strangely, that construction sounds OK to me in French or Spanish.
English: "If I had done ..." (good), "If I would have done ..." (not so good), but it seems OK translated as: "Si j'aurais fait ..." and "Si hubiera hecho ...".

Did it come in with the Common Market, perhaps?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 01:30 PM

If the professor has been researching Covid, he may be absolutely exhausted and can be forgiven a lapse in diction, perhaps a reversion to his childhood speech. There's no reason to accuse him of not thinking.

I believe a simple "If we had taken precautions in December..." would convey what he meant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 12:08 PM

The 'proper' phrasing would be, I suppose, "if we were to have done ... ", but "if we'd've done" ("if we had have done ... " or "if we would have done ... ") strikes me as acceptable colloquial English, even for academics. YMMV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 10:19 AM

I keep hearing, for example, "If I [or you, they, etc.] had done something ..." replaced by "If I'd 've done something ...", "If you'd 've done something ...".
It was used on the radio this lunchtime when a professor, who was talking about how the virus would look in a few months' time, included the phrase "if we'd 've been a bit more careful in December ...".
Did he think he was saying "if we had have been ..." (or "if we had of been", even)?
Or was he saying "if we would have been ..." (or "if we would of been")?

Or do the people who use this expression not think at all?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 04:33 AM

I've heard of 'krill' but I don't suppose you mean you are a tiny sea creature.
Maybe 'crill' should be added to the 'New words / usage' thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Nov 20 - 04:12 AM

"Hailed" used without "as", for instance "He was hailed a hero". Makes me crill.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 05:08 PM

Boy trapped in refrigerator eats own foot


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 04:55 PM

Ok, this from Newsweek:

Child Dragged From House As California Highway Patrol Evicts Families From Vacant Homes

Um, if they are vacant, nobody can be dragged out of them, child or no, as nobody is *in* them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 03:26 PM

Fur-weather friends, Jos? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 03:02 PM

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 01:06 PM

When I had cats I thought of them as friends, rather than possessions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 12:38 PM

Jos, I'm with you on the pets. I am my cat's owner, not her mother.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 07:21 AM

"Doesn't baby daddy suggest a father who's absent and flaky?"

Not necessarily. It's just that that is often the case.
But he could just be living elsewhere but keeping in touch and being supportive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Thompson
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 06:42 AM

Doesn't baby daddy suggest a father who's absent and flaky?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 06:20 AM

I think "baby daddy" is really a pronunciation of "baby's daddy". It doesn't bother me.

What I really hate is cat or dog owners being referred to as the animal's mummy or daddy - yuck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 06:08 AM

I don't think I have EVER heard "caNIBBLEism". It's the sort of thing you sometimes hear from people whose first language isn't English.

Leeneia, have you ever heard a Bristol accent - I think you'd love it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 20 - 05:31 AM

And that reminds me of that inane bit in She's Leaving Home:

"She breaks down and cries to her husband
Daddy our baby's gone..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 08:41 PM

My clients often talk about their "baby daddy."

It. Makes. Me. CRAZY.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 08:09 PM

Or here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 07:13 PM

You will never hear that pronunciation here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 05:25 PM

I was watching a documentary on the horrors of some island during some war where one side had prisoners-of-war whom they hunted, for sport and for dinner. I kept cracking up because the British [English?] narrator pronounced CANnibalism caNIBBLEism.
Like, they ate them daintily, with pinkies sticking out. And tea and crumpets.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 10:12 AM

I thought the commercial elderflower champagne makers could have simply called it 'Elderflower Shampagne', and the rest of us usually don't have a reason to write it down anyway so everybody would have been happy.

PS If you look for recipes on the internet you will find some that tell you to add yeast. You don't need to - there are natural yeasts on the flowers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 09:45 AM

Even the French winemakers outside the Champagne region don't call their fizz champagne. They make wines they call "crémants," made in exactly the same way and with similar strict regulation. They are much cheaper and some can be pretty good, as good as champers in m'humble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 09:21 AM

Well I take the point about its not being especially harmful to Champagne's reputation, and I admit to having made it meself and called it elderflower champagne, I do have to ask meself though why that company decided to be so provocative. Sparkling elderflower wine does it for me.

One elderflower bush in eight produces flowers that smell of cat's piss, so beware...

I'd generally rather drink a sparkler that's cheaper than champagne myself (something very nice with Parma ham, a little drizzle of aceto balsamico di Modena and a nibble of parmigiana reggiano - there I go again!). Some are a third the price and much better value. There are some lovely vintage cavas around, and we've been enjoying a bottle or two of the new-fangled rosé Prosecco from the Cantine Maschio (£6.50 at Morrison's). Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. It's a lovely drop!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 08:33 AM

There were objections some years back concerning 'elderflower champagne', which is usually made by people in their own homes for their own use, using bunches of elderflowers, water, sugar and lemon juice. Problems arose when someone produced it commercially and in 1993 large champagne houses took the case to court, but failed. This report is from The Independent:

"Although a product sold as 'elderflower champagne' constitutes a misrepresentation in that it indicates that it contains 'champagne' and is likely to deceive a small section of the public, it is unlikely that the champagne houses' reputation and valuable goodwill in the name champagne will be substantially affected by the small-scale sale of elderflower champagne. Since there was no likelihood of substantial damage to the champagne houses' business, reputation or goodwill, the champagne houses' passing off claim failed.

Sir Mervyn Davies dismissed the plaintiffs' passing off claim for damages and an injunction to restrain the defendants from selling elderflower champagne."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 06:23 AM

As for Cheddar, we have at least got legal protection for the term West Country Farmhouse Cheddar, thus:

"Cheese can only be called ‘West Country Farmhouse Cheddar’ if:

It is made using milk from local herds reared and milked in the counties of Somerset, Dorset, Devon or Cornwall. This ensures that the cheese has a particular texture and flavour.

It contains no colouring, no flavouring and no preservatives.

It is made in these four counties to traditional methods. These methods include the cheese being made by hand and the unique process known as ‘cheddaring’.

It is made and matured on the farm and aged for at least 9 months. Authentic Farmhouse Cheddar doesn’t leave the farm from the moment the milk arrives from the parlour until it’s ready to cut and pack. This means the Cheddar remains in the care of the farmer who can ensure that it is produced and stored to the very highest standards required of a premium cheese."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 06:20 AM

Democrats are rhetorical wimps. Republicans can demonize the conceptual name ANTIFA but Democrats can not bring themselves to call the gun toting white supremacists PRO FASCISTS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 06:01 AM

Champagne is not a generic term for sparkling wine. Champagne is a fairly small region of France north-east of Paris. It has a particular climate and terroir and there are strict regulations as to its sparkling wine production methods. The wine we call champagne has been produced there for centuries (for long before there was a USA). The Champagne region has long battled to preserve its name for its sparkling wine, and most countries in the world, including China, Brazil and the EU countries, all abide by the legal requirement to not call any wine not from that region champagne. Some winemakers in the US persist, via a loophole in the law, to dishonestly use the word champagne on their labels. If you call a wine Rioja, it has to come from that part of north-east Spain. Likewise, Napa Valley, Porto, Chianti Classico, among many others. We can't call a cheese Stilton unless it comes from a very restricted area of the English Midlands, and it has to be made a certain way. You can't call a pork pie a Melton Mowbray pie unless that's where it comes from. Prosecco has to come from the Veneto in northern Italy, from nowhere else. Routinely, these are not just place names but also reflect strict rules with regard to local and often highly traditional production methods. By any measure you look at this, the regulations are entirely moral. Of course, we've lost a few battles, Cheddar for example, though some of us, me included, will not buy any cheese calling itself "Cheddar" unless it comes from that small part of the Westcountry (wot pfr calls Scrumpyshire). I've just sampled a superb cheese from south-east England called Sussex Charmer, in every regard very like a superior cheddar, but it refrains from using that word on its label. Let's hang on to and celebrate regionality, say I!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 04:19 AM

Leeneia, you'll find many (slightly) different pronunciations across England, mainly between North & South although there are other regional accents. There are also local dialects like Geordie or Black Country, quite unintelligible to an outsider if the speaker so chooses.

Steve, I seem to remember that "champagne" was once a generic term for sparkling wine. However, that changed when we joined the Common Market.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 11:57 PM

about six months ago, the DH and I got interested in a British TV show about archeology. The name of the show is Time Team, and although it's been off the air a long time, we still enjoy it.

Watching the show has cause me to hear many different pronunciations between English English and American English. It's a funny thing, because the books I read about English don't mention them.

It's late at night and I'm tired, so I'm not going to try to list them. Nonetheless, there are so many of them that railing against them is like telling the waves not to come in.

We do smile at all the extra r's in the British speech:

arear
Carenzer (Carenza)
dramer (drama)

We think they're cute.


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