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BS: Language Pet Peeves

Steve Shaw 15 Mar 21 - 12:02 PM
leeneia 15 Mar 21 - 11:50 AM
Geoff Wallis 14 Mar 21 - 12:17 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 14 Mar 21 - 11:20 AM
Jos 14 Mar 21 - 11:07 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 14 Mar 21 - 10:11 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 10:01 AM
Manitas_at_home 14 Mar 21 - 09:37 AM
Manitas_at_home 14 Mar 21 - 09:36 AM
Donuel 14 Mar 21 - 09:21 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 14 Mar 21 - 09:16 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 08:58 AM
Joe_F 09 Mar 21 - 05:35 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Mar 21 - 09:02 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Mar 21 - 09:01 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Mar 21 - 08:57 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 06 Mar 21 - 05:38 PM
Mrrzy 06 Mar 21 - 05:09 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 06 Mar 21 - 05:04 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 21 - 07:53 AM
Doug Chadwick 06 Mar 21 - 07:50 AM
Mrrzy 06 Mar 21 - 07:35 AM
Doug Chadwick 06 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Mar 21 - 05:19 AM
Jon Freeman 06 Mar 21 - 04:42 AM
BobL 06 Mar 21 - 02:38 AM
Steve Shaw 05 Mar 21 - 06:27 PM
Doug Chadwick 05 Mar 21 - 05:50 PM
Mrrzy 05 Mar 21 - 05:03 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Mar 21 - 04:59 PM
Doug Chadwick 05 Mar 21 - 12:23 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Mar 21 - 11:58 AM
leeneia 05 Mar 21 - 11:40 AM
G-Force 05 Mar 21 - 10:34 AM
Mrrzy 05 Mar 21 - 09:07 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Mar 21 - 01:46 PM
Jos 04 Mar 21 - 01:14 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Mar 21 - 12:44 PM
Nigel Parsons 04 Mar 21 - 11:16 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Mar 21 - 10:16 AM
Lighter 03 Mar 21 - 07:19 PM
Mrrzy 03 Mar 21 - 04:43 PM
mayomick 03 Mar 21 - 09:31 AM
Jos 03 Mar 21 - 08:26 AM
Nigel Parsons 03 Mar 21 - 08:09 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Mar 21 - 07:33 AM
Mrrzy 03 Mar 21 - 07:22 AM
G-Force 01 Mar 21 - 08:33 AM
BobL 01 Mar 21 - 03:22 AM
Steve Shaw 28 Feb 21 - 05:17 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 12:02 PM

I fully get that, leeneia. I don't read fiction and watch only funny films, so a lot of the time I haven't a clue what people are talking about. I call it in-crowdery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Mar 21 - 11:50 AM

Yes, Geoff, reach out has been mentioned.
===================
Recently we had an example of a kind of Mudcat post that irritates me. It's the precious post which assumes that everybody in the world knows the writer's world.

"I'm rewatching Jos Whedon's 'Firefly' and really enjoying it."

What's Firefly? We do have the clue that it's something one watches, but is it a film? TV show? Play? YouTube video? And who's Jos Whedon? script writer? producer? poet? singer?

Is Firefly from last year perhaps? Or from 1927 perhaps? Sure, I could Google it, but if the OP wants people to talk sense to him, he should talk sense too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 12:17 PM

Cockley Cley, just south of Swaffham in Norfolk, is the site of an Iceni village; a pleasant spot to visit.

The shellfish outlets in East London were generally known as whelk stalls which indicates the locals' preference. Cockles have a tendency to be a bit dodgy.

Back to the subject, has the truly awful 'reach out' been mentioned here?

As far as I'm concerned, the only people who can justifiably 'reach out' were The Four Tops.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 11:20 AM

Only lived there for a total of 4 years, but do know that many Cockneys love a plate of cockles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 11:07 AM

Cockley = 'rather like a cockle'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 10:11 AM

I'm definitely not against county (or similar) diversity - apparently at one stage in England every county had it's own type of bagpipes; I think now all that remains is the Leicestershire smallpipes & Northumbrian smallpipes (which I love hearing).


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 10:01 AM

I like cockley. It could mean "attitudinizing just like a cock." :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 09:37 AM

*Cockney*


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 09:36 AM

WAV, That's Estuary English or Cockley and nothing to do with diversity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 09:21 AM

We call your intolernce 'attitudespize'

I don't see the sense in 'late model'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 09:16 AM

Since I repatriated in 1997, as part of the relentless promotion of diversity in England, those with clipped southern or, occasionally, northern accents have been replaced by continuity announcers saying "bovver" or "nuffin," e.g.; and, it seems, the broader the foreign accent, the better - as we slide ever further down the greasy pole.

(I haven't heard "innit" from them yet, but did far too often when I lived in London.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 08:58 AM

Today's Merriam-Webster word of the day is attitudinize.

What a terrible word, yanks. It's gotta be you, innit...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 05:35 PM

"daylight savings time"
"a savings"


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 09:02 AM

And if people are still claiming multiples of 100 posts, that was in memory of the Great Fire of London. (1666)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 09:01 AM

And yes, that was related to the previous comments, and to the thread. Language pet peeves.
The "King James Bible" and the "Book of Common Prayer" had a lyrical language with which we were brought up. Modern translations just don't match them. That is one of my linguistic pet peeves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 08:57 AM

"Be ye not like unto horse and mule, which have no understanding.
Whose mouths must be held with bit and bridle else will they not come nigh you."
Or something like that. Book of Psalms, but I haven't checked which psalm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:38 PM

Are you sure, Mrrzy/Mister Ed, the saying doesn't derive from so called "horse loving" humans thinking horses actually like been ridden somewhere - the weight on their back, being directed by the tugging on either side of their mouth and, in jump racing, the lovely scraping sensation on their stomachs..?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:09 PM

That is *why* they are champing. Now they stamp, now they champ, now they stand still.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:04 PM

The saying "champing at the bit" is ridiculous because what the horse is keen on is getting the damn bit out of its mouth!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 07:53 AM

I agree with everyone and I agree with no-one (to misquote Inspector Clouseau).


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 07:50 AM

I agree with Mrrzy's agreement.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 07:35 AM

Jon Freeman, yes, I do agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM

They are both types of order, just as an order is a type of transaction.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:19 AM

But they're both just orders...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:42 AM

That's not how I see it...

A back-order would be for an item that is temporarily out of stock. A pre-order would be for an item that is yet to be released.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:38 AM

Mrrzy, surely back-ordering would be placing an order (for the sake of keeping the paperwork straight) for something that had already been delivered?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 06:27 PM

One man's fish is another man's poisson, Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 05:50 PM

But Doug, it's ugly.

To you, perhaps, but not to my ears.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 05:03 PM

That is back-ordering, not pre-ordering, to meeee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 04:59 PM

But Doug, it's ugly. That's me beef!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 12:23 PM

I see a difference between "order' and "pre-order". If I want something that is held in a warehouse then I would place an order for it and expect delivery within a relatively short time. If, however, an item is being developed and orders are being taken even though it is not currently available on the market, I think that this could reasonably be described as pre-ordering.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 11:58 AM

I even heard "pre-teach" a while back. I had to look it up. It means to teach something to prepare for an upcoming test. I can't get me head round that...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 11:40 AM

Well, G-force, I belong to a music club which is now meeting on Zoom. If I say merely that a performance is recorded, I might mean that it was recorded before the meeting, or it could mean it will be recorded during the meeting. But if I say "pre-recorded," it definitely means before the meeting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: G-Force
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 10:34 AM

Then there's 'pre-recorded'. As opposed to what, 'post-recorded'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 09:07 AM

Pre-existing is insurance-speak for Existing.

My family used to have the word pre-dread, which we knew was redundant, but referred to a decision to worry-a-lot-about-how-awful-it-would-be so that when it happened, if it was only bad, bad would be a pleasant relief.

Mostly applied to family get-togethers after daddy was killed, but it works for most situations...

Actually the more I think of it the less pre- is useful or not redundant, with a verb. Pre-noun, like the pre-dawn hours, is ok. Hmmm. Good point.

I have not yet seen post to mean after.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 01:46 PM

Agreed. As with "prior to." I've definitely said that already...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 01:14 PM

Doesn't 'pre-ordering' just mean "You can order it now, but you're not going to get it for - oh, ages."

What I hate is "post" as a separate word when used instead of "after", as in "post the election", or "post the current situation".
[Sorry if I've said this already.]


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 12:44 PM

I only slightly take your point. What a shame we can't use very nice English instead, existing conditions and new conditions. You're arguing for a clarity that we've only managed to achieve via ugly language. The Bard would be appalled. I've been unable to find a decent and elegant synonym to fit the bill. Can we at least agree that the hyphen is required? These bloody yanks with their "preexisting..." what DOES that look like!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 11:16 AM

Sorry Steve, I tend to agree with the use of "pre-existing" in this context, but not necessarily "pre-ordering".
I would hope that hospitals would only tend to treat patients for 'existing' conditions (unless in a preventative way).
"Pre-existing" seems to add that not only this is a condition which needs treating, but that it is a condition which it was already known the patient had before any current decision to seek treatment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 10:16 AM

"Pre-"

I've just heard that the cheeky Greek Prince Phil is being treated for a "pre-existing" heart condition. Well I think that's ugly English. I think that the "pre" could usefully be dropped. He's being treated for an existing heart condition, not one that's just come on. Seems OK to me. I get fed up of being invited to "pre-order" this, that or the other, or to "pre-book" tickets for some event or other. I can just order or book, can't I? I note also that second-hand cars (a useful and honest expression) are now "pre-owned," or, even worse, "pre-loved" (shall we clench buttocks in unison?)

Anyway, must dash. I have to have a pre-look at the schedules to see what time the big match is on tonight...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:19 PM

It buggers the imagination.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 04:43 PM

Advice columnist told someone to perseverate.

But I persevere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: mayomick
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 09:31 AM

"beggaring the question" - well it was the Antique Roadshow .


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 08:26 AM

"Air fryer" doesn't bother me - isn't it just a pan or similar device containing fat or oil and the bubbles in it, nothing else? Just frying the air?

What bothers me is the sight of packets of crisps labelled "Hand fried". Ouch!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 08:09 AM

I don't (intentionally) eat grubs. Not enough meat on them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:33 AM

Well I haven't got one, and I won't be getting one, but don't they require a little bit of oil to air-fry the grub?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:22 AM

Is it just me? The term Air Fryer. It is an oven. There is no such thing as frying in air.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: G-Force
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 08:33 AM

Headline in the paper the other day: 'Like Lady Gaga, my dog was stolen'.

Now help me out here. Are they saying Lady Gaga is a dog, or that she was stolen?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 03:22 AM

Perhaps "beggars" was a euphemism...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 05:17 PM

I heard ages ago that "beggaring the question" was an early manifestation of "begging the question," implying that you are sort of trashing, or ridiculing it (beggaring it). I've tried looking into that but I need to have another go...


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Mudcat time: 13 April 8:28 AM EDT

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