BS: Language Pet Peeves

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 05:00 PM

Ford has ordered freezers to vaccinate their employees. Took me a while to place that missing comma!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 12:54 PM

Yeah, and the French invented champagne, and we in Europe respect that and refrain from calling our sparkling wines champagne. Not so in America, eh? If vaccination was invented here and we've been saying VACCine for 200 years, well just behave yourselves and talk proper!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 12:47 PM

"He invented it, so the English pronunciation is correct." Thanks for my morning chuckle.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 12:46 PM

Well I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to variations in pronunciation, but vaccINE seems to have caught on like an infection. Until the last couple of weeks I have never heard that pronunciation in this country (and I am 69...). A few of our telly commentators, after hearing reports from the US, have slipped into saying it then corrected themselves. I regard vaccINE as a horror no less vile than albeit, prior to and on a daily basis. It's just wrong. It comes from the Latin word for cow, vacca, fer chrissake.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 11:49 AM

VACCine - Edward Jenner was English. He invented it, so the English pronunciation is correct.
Here's a little BBC film about it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p015gmdn


And while we're about it, it's conTRIBute, not CONtribUTE, and disTRIBute, not DIStribUTE.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 10:55 AM

VaccINE.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 06:54 AM

"The Postman Always Rings Twice" is a 1946 American film noir based on a 1934 novel of the same name, by an American author James M Cain.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 06:44 AM

We give letters to our postman. It's like that round here.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 06:20 AM

Elvis's 'Return to Sender' begins 'I gave a letter to the postman ...'.

So at one time in America the person who both collected and delivered letters was called the 'postman'.

'Letter carriers' sounds like the homing pigeons that carried messages in wartime.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 10:06 PM

Jos: When I was in Scotland in 1959, I received an anonymous valentine whose envelope was inscribed

Postie, postie, dinna falter.
This may take me to the altar.

So "postie" must be Scottish as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 05:57 PM

It's VACCine fer chrissake. Not vaccINE!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 01:22 PM

Another peeve of mine: "categorically" as in "It is categorically untrue that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves in 1832."

Apparently the word is substituted for "absolutely" or "completely", but every time I hear it, I wonder what unstated category the speaker has in mind. It doesn't help that those who use it often sound like they are trying to put over a snowjob.
==============
Re: the mail. In the U.S. we call them letter carriers.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 11:57 AM

In England (probably in other parts of the UK as well) the person who delivers the post isn't called the 'mailman' (or 'mailwoman'). Some people try to call them 'posties' but that sounds Australian.
If calling the chairman (or woman) the chair is now widely regarded as normal, why not call him/her 'the post'? We do say 'Has the post come yet?'

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 11:46 AM

"hupersonity", obviously!

Back when women in hitherto 'men's jobs' was new, my father referred to their female letter-carrier as 'the femailman' - or 'femaleman' - not sure of the spelling ... !

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 10:20 AM

I have been stymied by humanity in my endeavor to use neutral terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 07:20 AM

If 'chair' is considered preferable to 'chairman', shouldn't we be using the term 'hu beings' ?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 04:50 AM

Here in Bude we have a lady policeman and a lady postman. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 03:46 AM

I'm happy with "lady chairman" (and so is the lady chairman of our local Country Dance club).

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 01:55 PM

Lol!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 11:52 AM

Not a pet peeve, but I heard this on the radio this morning: "If we do that now, it will come back and bite us in the end."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 09:38 AM

If I'm in a meeting and the person chairing it is a woman, I'm perfectly fine with Chairwoman. Likewise, Chairman if it's a bloke. I'm fine with Chairperson or just Chair in either case. But if we're just talking about meetings in general, we may need something generic. In that circumstance I'm fine with Chair or Chairperson. Shouldn't be saying Chairman if I don't know the gender of the person in the chair or if I know it's a woman. It isn't hard, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM

Ooh, I *like* chair and such as gender-neutral titles. Necessary, I would say. Silly to have to specify genitalia, and hyphen-person is awkward.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 07:31 AM

I have just heard someone on BBC Radio 4 describing financial problems resulting from Covid 19 as "the biggest cause of mental health ...".
Not "mental illness", or even "mental problems".

Shouldn't we be encouraging anything that is a cause of mental health?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 07:22 AM

Calling them 'chairholders' would solve that problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 05:43 AM

Use of the word "chair" for chairman and chairwoman or chairlady - hideous unnecessary neuterisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 05:31 AM

I particularly hate people who shout "Come on!" like a bullying PE teacher faced with reluctant children who have no interest in getting a ball into whatever variety of hole or goal the game requires.

Jamie Oliver does it in nearly all his cookery programmes (at which point I switch off).

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 04:59 AM

My first Bol recipe came from Katharine Whitehorn's "Cooking in a Bedsitter." Anyone else remember that? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 03:44 AM

Authentic - there are as many authentic recipes for ragù alla bolognese as there are housewives in Bologna.
Mine, derived from that of the late great and not entirely unlamented Fanny Cradock, isn't one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 12:52 AM

From cooking shows: This dish [nobody ever heard of] is a new tradition. You can't know that, ya know.

This is an authentic recipe. An authentic what recipe? All recipes are authentic *recipes* eh.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 12:13 PM

Another peeve of mine: 'shout out', as in "Let's give a shout out to John Jones for his generous donation to Children's Hospital."

I think a kind donation deserves gracious words of thanks, not a shout, as if we were all at a football game.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 04:31 AM

Oh God. "Absent" meaning "without". Without is a perfectly good word. "Absent a policy to do yadayada…" No!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 09:36 AM

I'd be more likely to say "Have you any chips?"
(Assuming I'm not in a chip shop. They would have chips, wouldn't they?)

Something that makes me uncomfortable is people who write, for example, "See the below list" or "See the below link". When I first came across this in emails I reported them as spam, as they contained what to me was suspect English.
I don't know why it seems wrong though, as "See the above link" sounds fine, and of course "See the link below" is as good as "See the link above".

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 09:16 AM

I can't imagine my asking anyone "Have you chips?" I'd be far more likely to say "Give us a bloody chip, you tight arse!"

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 09:13 AM

"If you have already set up a Direct Debit arrangement then you're done."

Well I have some sympathy with organisations that are trying to be a bit less formal by ditching officialese. They do go a bit over the top at times. I've just had some protracted email correspondence (concerning a rather large financial matter - no criminality involved! - which took months to resolve) with a solicitors' firm hundreds of miles away. The person who finally managed to sort it out for me signed off her final email "With kind regards, Imogen." I'm OK with that. In my (separate) dealings with my late mum's affairs, I'm on first-name terms with my solicitor (who I've only ever met once, briefly, twelve years ago). Among several doctors and other medics who have worked on my ailments over the years there's been Adam, Dave, Charlie, Rob and Gretel. There's nothing to say that due deference can't still be afforded simply because we use first names or less formal language in m'humble...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 09:06 AM

This is one which always makes me cringe: someone asks a question like 'Have you got ...' and the reply comes back 'Yes, I do' (or 'No, I don't'). You hear it all the time. Aaaarrrggghhh!!

It is the initial questioner who is at fault for using 'got' in that manner. (unless it means 'have you been to collect . . .?')
The question could just as easily "Have you . . .?" Such as "Have you chips?". To which the answer would be either: "Yes. I have (chips)", or, if the question was taken as meaning "Do you have ...?" then an answer of "I do" would also be correct.

In my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 07:22 AM

When people are introducing two points, instead of listing them as first and second or 'A ... and B...' they often present them as:
A ... and secondly ...'.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 07:16 AM

Yesterday we received our paper TV Licence, and the schedule for Direct Debit payments.The wording in the opening paragraph made me fume. It said, "If you have already set up a Direct Debit arrangement then you're done." Eh? What? DONE???? Grrrrrr!!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: G-Force
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 07:13 AM

This is one which always makes me cringe: someone asks a question like 'Have you got ...' and the reply comes back 'Yes, I do' (or 'No, I don't'). You hear it all the time. Aaaarrrggghhh!!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Nov 20 - 09:44 AM

Abandoned Boat Was Found With A Missing Girl For 8 Years
Boy did that not make sense

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 20 - 06:45 AM

Easy as pie. Cheap as chips. Nothing wrong there!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: JennieG
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 09:50 PM

Thank you, Mrzzy! Like minds and all that......

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 09:09 PM

Yeah, I saw that in a headline recently and bristled for both of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: JennieG
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 08:39 PM

One that makes me shout at the TV - something is said to be "easy as." Or "cheap as".

Easy as what? Cheap as what?

A woman in my quilting group uses it, I suspect it may have come from her grandchildren. It is still irritating.

Irritating as........

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: ripov
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 02:39 PM

"x times cheaper than"-when what is meant is "1/xth of the cost"

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 01:43 PM

Never met a noun I couldn't verb.

PC mealymouthiness is another peeve.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 05:29 AM

Have to say I'm fond of a little light verbing now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 06:05 PM

I'm afraid that to criticise people who allegedly misuse "gift" is something that is not within my gift.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 04:59 PM

But those all make the point: "gifted with second sight" is gifted as a verb, yes, but gifted in the sense of having a natural gift, rather than of receiving a birthday present; the other two are gifted as a verb in legal contexts.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Reinhard
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 02:58 PM

The OED defines gift as a verb too besides the noun and gives as examples:
P.G. Wodehose: She was gifted with a sort of second sight.
Daily Telegraph: You can be ... gifted up to £90,000 before you become liable to tax.
J.C. Lees: The Regent Murray gifted all the Church Property to Lord Sempill.

A friend from Edinburgh, who is a singer/songwriter and speaks very precise, uses gift as a verb regularly; so I'm quite accustomed to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jos
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 12:17 PM

"in my [or his, her, their, etc.] DNA"
when used about something that is obviously not in DNA, such as saying of a film director: "Cinema was in his DNA".