BS: Language Pet Peeves

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 01:14 PM

One more time, chaps. Dictionaries are not there to decide what is or isn't "acceptable." Their role is to reflect usage. And I can't see much wrong with "fast" as an adverb. In fact, it can be used to rather good effect I feel.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 12:24 PM

I agree with Nigel Parsons on this one.

Dictionaries define Literal as Figurative and have lost all claim to correctness.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 07:12 AM

Oxford English Dictionary considers "fast," as an adverb meaning "quickly," to be perfectly acceptable, with numerous quotations back to the 13th century.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 06:35 AM

Next pet peeve: Using 'fast' as an adverb related to speed.
adjective: "He is a fast runner". Yes
adverb: "He runs fast". No, "He runs quickly."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jul 20 - 11:29 AM

Same source: Portland mayor hit by tear gas deployed by federal troops, said the headline, and my immediate thought was, wait, the feds deployed the mayor?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 09:49 AM

WashPo, who should know better, spelled a word for bellybutton Naval. It bugs me more when coming from such a source.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 20 - 05:08 AM

This is the untold story of. Hitherto-untold, ok, but if you're telling it, not untold now, eh I'd prefer 'previously' to 'hitherto'. Other than that, if the story is being told for the first time them I'm fine with "This is the untold story".

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 06:00 PM

Yeah, for about 10 pages in Einstein's biography, I understood relativity.

Peeve: starting a story with This is the untold story of. Hitherto-untold, ok, but if you're telling it, not untold now, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 10:06 PM

albeit... discussed in USENET https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.usage.english/jwJrs1rNN0g

My favorite philosophy prof. in college A.C "Tony" Genova, wrote a paper titled "What is existentialism>"

I still have a copy somewhere..which does not mean *I* can still explain it, but at one time I was clear on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 05:14 PM

It is not pronounced just deserts [DEZ-erts], it is pronounced just desserts [duh-ZERTS], but yeah, phrase origin is deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 04:02 PM

Reinhard, I agree.

Bonzo, you are right. I've never been confidant about woke, wake, and awaken.

Here's another peeve of mine: advisedly.

"This is a millenial dilemma, and I use the term advisedly." What is that supposed to mean? The speaker never mentions an advisor who okayed the term.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 04:16 PM

And then there is the dreaded "woke" - which is what I did at 3am this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Reinhard
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 03:47 PM

Just desserts, as in the thread "Jolly Rogues of Lynn": " Whereas millers and weavers get their just desserts in the song, the tailor is too much of a rogue, so he ends up enjoying it."

No, they don't get sweets, they get their just deserts, i.e. what they deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 01:04 PM

I agree, Mrrzy. That's baffling.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 09:49 AM

Headline:
The rare fashion brand that’s beloved by the women of Trump world and not afraid to show it

What?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 01:45 PM

Steve, I did say that using 'reference' as a verb was a pet peeve of mine. A pet peeve is not a clarion call for all mankind to conform to my preferences.

'Reference' used as a verb is an intelligible word, albeit an ungraceful one.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 08:03 AM

How about Nevertheless? Unless you are Kate Hepburn in The African Queen, I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 07:07 AM

Nah. I'm a fighter to the death against two things, Nigel: degradation of da lingo and pretentiousness in the use of words. I won't rest until albeit bites the dust. It's an abomination...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 06:26 AM

You may not like "reference" as a verb, but you're fighting a lost cause. You are fighting what is now standard English.
Can you accept the same argument about 'albeit'?


900

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 06:08 AM

And there are perfectly good words available which enable the more enlightened among us to avoid such horrors as "albeit," "prior to" and "on a daily basis."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jul 20 - 04:39 AM

Or two words that seem to be more popular across the water, "normalcy" and "societal."    And I must confess that I've never properly got my head round "existential" so I never use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 09:44 PM

Ah, yes, verbing nouns. Love that. But not when there's already a perfectly good word.

What bugs me is inventing words like Authenticness. No, authenticity.

Or Worthiness. It's just worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 06:29 PM

You may not like "reference" as a verb, but you're fighting a lost cause. You are fighting what is now standard English. It's up there with "Will she medal at the Olympics?" "I will access the information by googling it" "She authored the article on global warming." And will you book a holiday next year?

I like these things. They represent evolution in our language and there is no degradation going on. What a contrast with horrid things such as "alternate" instead of "alternative" and "disinterested" used ignorantly instead of "uninterested." Now they really do represent degradation.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 03:38 PM

Some mixed metaphors are better than others but I have heard some that are incomprehensable. "You can't unring the bell of the crazy uncle locked in the cellar"
"The White House is an infected Cruise Ship without a propeller"

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 02:17 PM

"He referenced the book of Ecclestiastes."
Unless of course it is used to mean that he catalogued the book, and created an index. Then it wouldn't seem too wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Charmion
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 01:02 PM

"Reference" is a noun.

"Refer" is a verb. So is "cite".

Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 12:45 PM

Just heard a Brit use the adjective Swish, which apparently does not mean what Americans use that word for...

Separated by a common language, again.

I had a British boss for a while, we once had a long talk about that. It was the qualifier Quite that got her into trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 12:06 PM

Mrzzy, I agree with you about black.

I just noticed another pet peeve I have: using reference as a verb. Take these three sentences:

He referenced the book of Ecclestiastes.
He referred to the book of Ecclestiastes.
He cited the book of Ecclestiastes.

I prefer the second or the third, depending on meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 10:38 AM

Groan, Nigel Parsons.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Jul 20 - 10:04 AM

Would America work better if it was unpresidented?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jul 20 - 08:21 PM

PBS, talking of the Vikings, called something "unprecedented for its time" and I instantly forgot what the something was.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jul 20 - 03:53 PM

And when did every single use of the word "black" become racist? We are diurnal animals. Night is scary. Nothing to do with skin color.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Jul 20 - 05:21 AM

Centre around. No. You can't centre something around. You can centre something on something else.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 07:43 PM

Perhaps it should have been, but it is not, and if you use long-lifed, people will assume you can't spell.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 06:27 PM

BobL: Compare the plural noun "lives".

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 08:17 AM

My take exactly, Bobl.

But I was curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 05 Jul 20 - 02:45 AM

Shouldn't that be long-lifed?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 06:18 PM

I prefer the long i. If you have legs, you can be long-legged, and if you have a life, you are long-lived.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Thompson
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 06:03 PM

I'd say long-livved, because we're talking about the person's action, though I suppose you could say long-lie-ved in the sense that they'd had a long life. It'd make me shudder, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 05:36 PM

Mrrzy: The "hive" vowel is better. "-Lived" there comes from the noun "life", not the verb "live". In America, we can still use the proper pronunciation, tho I think we are in a minority. In Britain, I gather, it has died out entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 03:43 PM

So, the "i" in long-lived, pronounced like the "i" in give, or hive?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 12:04 PM

I know someone who is fairly fluent in Spanish who still manages to pronounce chorizo "churitso."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 11:31 AM

In that article, the author nominates 'karaoke' as the most mispronounced word in the world. This, surely, is a case of misplaced priorities. I would of thought that how it is pronounced is the least of the problems associated with karaoke.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 10:33 AM

Also this

https://humanparts.medium.com/the-most-mispronounced-word-in-the-world-20dcad2a6735

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 10:11 AM

You said In Fact where I quoted you, right, sorry.

Ok, question: in the phrase "long-lived" does the "live" syllable rhyme with give or hive?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 06:22 PM

And I didn't say "Actually they go back". Actually...

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 06:21 PM

They have been in common usage for hundreds of years is what I meant. That isn't to say that they have to be regarded as words that are in good taste, but they are standard English whether you like it or not. The whole point about what you regard as contentious words is that context is everything. Grand in the pub with your session mates, not grand in front of Grandma, your five-year-old or your maiden aunts. I don't use fuck and cunt here because I don't want to cause the kind of shock or offence among people I don't know that I see others here indulging in. But that's just me, and I care not a jot about other posters using those words. I'm kind of vaguely aware that there are some people who might take offence, and I only want to cause offence to people I intensely dislike. I have better ways of doing that than by resort to fuck and cunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 10:06 AM

Then what did you mean by Actually they go back?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 03 Jul 20 - 01:07 AM

Another peeve I just noticed: I don't want to hear the phrase 'perfect storm' ever again.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jul 20 - 07:15 PM

That was in no way an argument that I was making. Reread my comments about fashion.